Jimquisition: Xbox 360 and PS3 Are Just Very Crap PCs

Yeah until the next consoles come out and then all these console-primary gamers will flock back to the fold. /cynicism
 
Plague_Injected said:
Yeah until the next consoles come out and then all these console-primary gamers will flock back to the fold. /cynicism
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Sad yet entirely true.

Right now, where the 360 and PS3 are really at the end of their life cycle this is an easy comment to make that they are really just glorified cheap pc's. But when the 720 (or whatever they call it) and the PS4 hit the market, they will, yet again, be praised as the top of the food chain, best hardware, NON-pc box to ever own, than again, 7,8 years after they come out, we will be back to the same comments again. Its a cycle, never ending, never changing, cycle.
 
I don't play console games often but when I fire up my PS3 I don't think to myself that this is outdated at all.
 
I just laugh at my family members that own consoles. Then show them the same game running on my PC that cost 1/4 what they paid and looks 10x better. Then they tell me that my graphics card is cheating or some other lame excuse.

I love to see their tears.
 
bigdogchris said:
I don't play console games often but when I fire up my PS3 I don't think to myself that this is outdated at all.
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I never did either, when I had the consoles. I bought both consoles, twice in the past year and a half. I just couldn't justify them over my PC which I dumped 3 grand into. It wasn't the fact that it had worse graphics or anything like that, but it just made me feel "detached" in a way, if you want to use that word. I always feel more happy when I'm inches from the screen and am holding two different controllers, while being able to alt-tab to change music and quickly surf the web for something. That's probably because I grew up with a DOS computer, then moved on down the line with all the other versions of Windows.

My first console was the Atari, and I enjoyed playing it ONLY with someone else. Hell I enjoyed playing two player PC games with one keyboard more than a console. Next console after that was the first Playstation, which I got soon after it came out, on Christmas. I enjoyed that very much, but it was the ONLY console I played the hell out of. I always wanted a PS2 when it came out, but just couldn't justify the price tag (was very young). I bet if I grew up with the PS2 since it's dawning, I would have a different appreciation for console gaming. Got a Gamecube the first year it came out as well, got it on Christmas. I enjoyed it very much, but only for a few choice games. Had the original Xbox as well, but it wasn't that big of a deal to me, was running out of wind by then. The first PS2 I bought was almost 4-5 years ago, quite a while after it first came out, and only to play Rockband or Guitar Hero.

I was considering for a while purchasing the new consoles as they come out, but looking back at it the last few months, I think I'll pass, and just save the money really. I'm sure they'll be great machines capable of some nice technology, but it just isn't for me, or for anyone too attached to the uses of a PC.
 
Sigh...

It's nice that people are being public about this kind of thing now, but the hilarious fact is that all of the reasons he lists why PCs are better NOW than consoles, such as controller support, TV support, digital distribution...they've ALWAYS existed...they're not recent inventions that somehow flipped, you've always been able to connect your PC to a TV with the right cables, there's always been a plethora of gamepad/controlpad devices for the PC and PC was the first to innovate with patches, digital distribution, and all the rest of it.

Anything that gets through to console gamers that their cheap console is cheap for a reason (because it's not as good) is a positive thing for gaming in general, but lets not pretend like it's something that's new...this has always been the case.
 
bigdogchris said:
I don't play console games often but when I fire up my PS3 I don't think to myself that this is outdated at all.
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It's like playing retro games, as long as the game is good, you really don't care. A game might be prettier with high resolution textures and the latest AA, but it isn't any more fun.

Then again I like mods. :D Would be great if the next consoles had more ability to use user created content. I know this wont happen (DLC), but a few games do allow this already, like Unreal Tournement on the PS3 (maybe Xbox, not sure, the maps site only lists PC and PS3...).
 
DeathPrincess said:
It's like playing retro games, as long as the game is good, you really don't care. A game might be prettier with high resolution textures and the latest AA, but it isn't any more fun.

Then again I like mods. :D Would be great if the next consoles had more ability to use user created content. I know this wont happen (DLC), but a few games do allow this already, like Unreal Tournement on the PS3 (maybe Xbox, not sure, the maps site only lists PC and PS3...).
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http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1704440
 
I almost posted this myself but there's a lot of Anti-jims in here.

I have to say I was completely floored by his coming out on this. I actually like some of jims reviews so I just accept that he's a console fag and I'm not insulting him for it just easiest way to describe someone who shows very little interest to no interest in PC gaming. I have all three contenders xbox 360, Ps3, and PC. Literally the only reason either of the consoles get turned on is for console exclusive titles. I would never ever ever ever play a game on console unless I have to. For me and I realize it's just cause I'm old but these ultra-low res textures and low resolution just plain make it impossible for me to play. I've encountered several games where I get lost because everything looks the same and I end up having no clue wtf I'm supposed to be going.
 
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cageymaru said:
I just laugh at my family members that own consoles. Then show them the same game running on my PC that cost 1/4 what they paid and looks 10x better. Then they tell me that my graphics card is cheating or some other lame excuse.

I love to see their tears.
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I was looking at system's for my dad and looked at some reviews of the llano APU with the intergrated graphics. While it was hard to say this even last year. These days on a sale I'm certain now that I can put together a gaming PC for the same price as a base model PS3 or Xbox not even a higher end model.

thats how outdated consoles are at this point. Not even gonna discuss the gamecube/wii emulator on my work laptop lol.
 
piscian18 said:
... these ultra-low res textures and low resolution just plain make it impossible for me to play...
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This is my reason for not enjoying console gaming. Once you play a game at 1080p+ resolutions with graphics maxed out (or modded in some cases) going back to a console that's running a game at 720p (or in a lot of cases much lower, doesn't the Halo series run at 540p or something?) along with lower resolution textures, low draw distance, little to no AA/AF...consoles just look so old...

And please no one give me that gameplay over graphics mess...if that were the case then even a console like the PS2 would still be king and we'd have no reason for the PS3/360 as all they are are graphical boosts (really, graphics aside, what game on either the PS3 or 360 couldn't be done due to technical limitations on the PS2/Xbox 1?)

Either case, what Jim says, although outdated in that everything mentioned has always been the case on PC for YEARS, is true. But as true as it is, none of it matters since people simply DON'T KNOW that PC gaming is as good as it is, let alone the fact that most probably don't even know it exists or is as extensive as it is.

I love using GTA4 as an example...look at that game when it has texture mods, better car models, iCEnhancer/ENB, etc...makes the console version look like a PS2 game in comparison. Can't tell you how much people have literally been BLOWN away when they see the game on my PC.

In the end though it doesn't matter...consoles will continue to dominate as they always have and will nor can it be denied that there IS a certain cost problem when it comes to PC's as well. Sure over the long run a PC might be cheaper (considering game costs) but that upfront ~$600-1000 is a lot to swallow for most people, especially considering you can get a used PS3 Slim or Xbox 360 S well below the $250-300 price range used...and usually they come with games and extra accessories (go check your local Craigslist if you doubt me).

In conclusion, I do wish PC gaming was more widespread and more common...and if they were cheaper and people weren't scared of technology they would be...but as it stands consoles are still king by a VERY large margin and will always be.
 
Console dev know how to squeeze more preformince out of console hardware than eny PC dev by a long shot.
 
defiant007 said:
Staunch console advocate ditches preferred platforms in favor of PC....feels like change is in the winds.
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Really? I always got the impression that he was a PC fanboy more than anything else (from some of the Destructoid shows I've seen him on)
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Console dev know how to squeeze more preformince out of console hardware than eny PC dev by a long shot.
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It's not a case of knowledge, optimizations for specific bits of hardware isn't especially very difficult, it's just that for the PC it's not really worth trying to optimise for thousands of different bits of hardware.

The extra 10-15% you can squeeze out of the consoles now is nothing compared to the 1000%+ speed advantage that PC hardware has anyway, by the time developers have found the really good optimisations such as the kind of work Carmack has done with the idTech 5 engine, the PC is an order of magnitude faster.
 
PS3 for exclusives, Vita (PSP) for JRPGs, PC for everything else.
That's how I roll.
 
Plague_Injected said:
That sounds very dangerous.
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images
 
PrincessFrosty said:
It's not a case of knowledge, optimizations for specific bits of hardware isn't especially very difficult, it's just that for the PC it's not really worth trying to optimise for thousands of different bits of hardware.

The extra 10-15% you can squeeze out of the consoles now is nothing compared to the 1000%+ speed advantage that PC hardware has anyway, by the time developers have found the really good optimisations such as the kind of work Carmack has done with the idTech 5 engine, the PC is an order of magnitude faster.
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Pretty sure its more then 15%....
 
I just bought a Playstation 3 about 3 months ago and I was surprised by how good the graphics for certain games were (Metal Gear Solid 4 and Uncharted: Drake's Fortune stand out). Of course, this does depend highly on the game. Bayonetta had pretty awful graphics by comparison.
 
This is news? Both consoles were outdated by PC standards a short time after they came out,they're absolute antiques now. The next generation will be no better
 
PrincessFrosty said:
It's not a case of knowledge, optimizations for specific bits of hardware isn't especially very difficult, it's just that for the PC it's not really worth trying to optimise for thousands of different bits of hardware.

The extra 10-15% you can squeeze out of the consoles now is nothing compared to the 1000%+ speed advantage that PC hardware has anyway, by the time developers have found the really good optimisations such as the kind of work Carmack has done with the idTech 5 engine, the PC is an order of magnitude faster.
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I wasn't being serious.
 
Optimizing for hardware on a console means lowering the resolution turning off features and upscaling. Ya that sounds really optimized.

Also consoles dont look bad but they are terribly slow. Basically lots of consoles proponents say they optimize but they dont, they compromise there is a big difference.

Running a game at 1080P and 120hz buttery smooth and still on all high is wonderful.

The biggest problem with PC gaming is exposure. When was the last time you saw a commercial for a PC game? When was the last time you saw any push? Honestly I hope google makes a good desktop OS so we can finally get a company behind PC gaming. MS no longer counts they are focused on Xbox and dont care about PC gamers.
 
michael.pa2 said:
This is news? Both consoles were outdated by PC standards a short time after they came out,they're absolute antiques now. The next generation will be no better
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Yeah thats the main problem here 2 3 years ago you had to buy a lowend decent rig to play console ports. Now I can play ports or similar games on a cheap laptop. A tablet in some cases.

If you count onlive you can play console games on your fucking phone.
 
rudy said:
Optimizing for hardware on a console means lowering the resolution turning off features and upscaling. Ya that sounds really optimized.

Also consoles dont look bad but they are terribly slow. Basically lots of consoles proponents say they optimize but they dont, they compromise there is a big difference.

Running a game at 1080P and 120hz buttery smooth and still on all high is wonderful.

The biggest problem with PC gaming is exposure. When was the last time you saw a commercial for a PC game? When was the last time you saw any push? Honestly I hope google makes a good desktop OS so we can finally get a company behind PC gaming. MS no longer counts they are focused on Xbox and dont care about PC gamers.
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I wouldn't say that exposure is the problem at all. Just about every single console gamer I know (and even non-gamers) know what PC's are capable of.

I'd venture to guess that it's a mixture of issues why it's sort of a niche group of people.

-The price is prohibitive... if you're content with 360 or PS3 quality visuals, you can put a machine together for a couple hundred dollars. However, if you want to max it out (like many people do), you're going to be spending a lot of money on it.

-There is also the misconception that it's an unstable platform. I can't count the number of times I've been showing a game to a friend with a CTD results in "see... this is why I play on Playstation and not my computer"

-People also believe that you're forced to hunch over a keyboard to play, which is no longer the case (for the most part) thanks to MS adding native 360 controller support in later versions of DirectX

-You have to be a techie to play on it. Most average people don't know what Anti-Aliasing is or why they should/shouldn't turn it on and off (same goes for most settings). On consoles, it's completely plug-n-play. It just works.

I really don't feel that exposure has anything to do with it. WoW commercials were everywhere... many AAA titles are now ported to the PC (which NEVER used to happen 10+ years ago) and almost every home has a computer of some sort in it. People are just used to consoles, sitting on their couch and playing infront of their TV. Hell, my generation grew up on it (Atari, NES, etc)
 
The job of advertising is to fix misconceptions, many of which you listed, If MS was not in the console business they would have been pushing PC gaming, fixing issues, addressing misconceptions, especially when macs started growing in popularity, they would have used PC gaming as a huge weapon. This would have created alot more exposure.

Go to best buy and find the PC gaming section, oh its burried in the back behind the apple booth, each console has a section much larger. You have to advertise and get your product out. Tell me the last time you saw a demo computer to try games on? Every console has one of those in every store.

Exposure is a problem it matters, and it leads to misconceptions. No one is on the side of PC gamers except innovation, that is the only thing keeping PC gaming alive.
 
rudy said:
The job of advertising is to fix misconceptions, many of which you listed, If MS was not in the console business they would have been pushing PC gaming, fixing issues, addressing misconceptions, especially when macs started growing in popularity, they would have used PC gaming as a huge weapon. This would have created alot more exposure.

Go to best buy and find the PC gaming section, oh its burried in the back behind the apple booth, each console has a section much larger. You have to advertise and get your product out. Tell me the last time you saw a demo computer to try games on? Every console has one of those in every store.

Exposure is a problem it matters, and it leads to misconceptions. No one is on the side of PC gamers except innovation, that is the only thing keeping PC gaming alive.
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Nah. PC gaming ha s a lot going for it. Anyone with internet can see lots of advertising, even Amazon pimps PC games. Everyone has also heard of Steam.
 
See you are wrong, tons of people have no idea what steam is. I have to explain it to lots of people who are not big into computers. You guys just have a skewed view of things being on a tech oriented forum. Amazon advertises PC games where? Heck tons of people dont even shop on amazon yet. Those people who go into best buy and buy all their consoles. This is where hitting the TV advertising in simple informative ways, and getting displays up in stores really matters. When there is a big push for a console game, you can play it in stores and see it advertised, then in the bottom of the screen it might say for PC in passing that is it.
 
rudy said:
See you are wrong, tons of people have no idea what steam is. I have to explain it to lots of people who are not big into computers. You guys just have a skewed view of things being on a tech oriented forum. Amazon advertises PC games where? Heck tons of people dont even shop on amazon yet. Those people who go into best buy and buy all their consoles. This is where hitting the TV advertising in simple informative ways, and getting displays up in stores really matters. When there is a big push for a console game, you can play it in stores and see it advertised, then in the bottom of the screen it might say for PC in passing that is it.
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TV is a fading medium. Get with the times, yokel :D

I guess I just live in an area where not knowing what Amazon is or how to use a computer will get you laughed out of town.
 
Sterling's point that consoles are hardly simple and plug-and-play anymore is a very valid one.

Microsoft estimates that only about half of its 360 install-base actually has the console connected to the Internet. In the era of online passes and activation codes for both multiplayer and single-player content, as well as extensive patching for games that are broken at launch, that is a large chunk of the population who aren't getting a complete and functional product. This could be due to not being 'tech-savvy' enough to know how to hook the console up to the Internet (you'd be surprised how many people actually do struggle with this, especially when it comes to wireless connections), and then go through the process of creating an online account, handle, do email verification, etc.

Then you have all of the different models of consoles. Ask a "busy-mum" ("soccer-moms") or a dudebro what the difference is between a 160GB PS3 and a 320GB PS3 and see what they respond with. Ask them how they're going to set up the console to access the home's wireless router. Ask them if they are using a HDMI cable or are they using the composite cable that came with the console. I wonder what percentage of those people are going to have any idea what the fuck you are on about.

To us enthusiasts console gaming is straight-forward but to the average consumer they are far more complicated than the previous generations of consoles.
 
IMO, with the accumulated extra loading time between levels and at startup, you could have worked enough overtime to afford a badass gaming PC.
 
Plague_Injected said:
Yeah until the next consoles come out and then all these console-primary gamers will flock back to the fold. /cynicism
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Well, I think the real message here is that console lifecycles are too old. It's more profitable in the short term but it stifles creativity.
 
cageymaru said:
I just laugh at my family members that own consoles. Then show them the same game running on my PC that cost 1/4 what they paid and looks 10x better. Then they tell me that my graphics card is cheating or some other lame excuse.

I love to see their tears.
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Your PC cost less than $200?


Recently I've played a little bit of PS3 and Xbox 360 again...and honestly unless you really look for it in every game you can't tell the difference that much..if you actually play, as in moving all the time. If you stop and look at textures for longer than a second, they look pretty awful.

That said, consoles are so boring, upgrading my PC is probably the most fun part of the hobby. Games are getting kind of stale, but rebuilding my PC is always fun :)
 
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