Is this PC worth saving?

L

LearninToBuild

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
132
SPECS (from Everest): Machine cost=$950ish

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400, 3000 MHz (9x333)
Mobo: MSI P7N SLI (MS-7380)
Chipset: nVIDIA nForce 750i SLI

System Memory: 4096 MB (DDR2-800)
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT 512 MB
500GB Hitachi HD

OS: Vista

Cliffs notes: Purchased Cyber Power PC 8 months ago. It kept freezing, case only has two fans, kept dropping internet. I installed a new network adapter, which fixes the internet issue 'sometimes'.

I monitor through Everest and when playing Swat4 my GPU temp goes to 60C~.

I updated all drivers, tried re-formatting OS, tried XP, tried taking one 2GB stick of RAM out and using the other, the machine locks up frequently when simply browsing or downloading. Also get a Windows IRQL blue screen on occasion.

I'm thinking of replacing the RAM, and if it still locks up then replacing video card and power supply? At this point I would almost consider it an experiment and perhaps get some good experience with re-building a PC, but if new RAM doesn't fix the issue I'd be gunshy investing any more into this PC.
 
Well, if replacing a motherboard is equivalent to re-building a car's transmission for a novice PC builder like myself, is it even worth it to invest what I assume is at the very least another $200+ into this system? I also imagine I might need to purchase a new case.

Bottom line is my CPU and GPU temps seem fairly normal, I'm noticing performance issues upon first boots, simply dragging a window around can be slow and non-responsive, it's like I'm using a PC from 1995 and all my components seem current enough to run Vista well.

It just seems like there's problems from every direction with this machine, and CyberPower PC customer support is so god awful that I've resorted to either fixing this crap myself or moving on.
 
Just tried the RAM in the other 2 empty slots, still froze, this time got a blue screen I'd never seen before.

"A process or thread crucial to your system operation has unexpectedly exited or been terminated."

Didn't have enough time to write down the error code though.. :(
 
[Testing the RAM]
Download Memtest86+ v2.11 or whatever the latest version is, unzip it, burn the ISO file to a CD, and then boot from it, just like you would do with the XP/Vista install CD. Let Memtest+ run for at least three hours on each stick of RAM separately as well as test the RAM all together. Go for a full 24 hours if you want to be completely sure that the RAM is not a problem. If you start seeing errors, than your RAM is defective or you have incorrect settings for the RAM.

[Testing the Hard drive]
Download the CD image of Hitachi Drive Fitness Test, burn the ISO file to a CD, and then boot from it, just like you would do with the XP/Vista install CD. Test the hard drive and see if any problems are found. DFT will run on most manufacturers' hard drives. Alternatively, you can use Seagate's SeaTools for DOS to test a Seagate or Maxtor drive. For a Western Digital drive, you could use Data Lifeguard Tools for DOS to test a Western Digital drive.

[Testing the CPU]
Use Prime 95, OCCT, Orthos or Intel Burn Tool to stress test the CPU.

[Testing the GPU]
Use Furmark or ATI Tool to stress test the GPU. If you see any artifacts, the GPU could be overheating, too overclocked, or faulty.

[Testing the PSU]
Buy and use a digital multi-meter to monitor the voltages coming from the PSU. Follow the instructions for "Using a multi-meter to check voltages":
http://www.bfgpower.com/troubleshooting.html#DMM

If it was just the mobo, you don't need to spend $200 unless you actually need the features of a $200 mobo. So what features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc. In addition, if it was just the mobo, yes it is worth salvaging and saving the PC as it is a very good PC from a specs standpoint. Just unstable and sluggish due to any number of reasons, from shitty PSU to piss-poor work by Cyberpower PC.

Speaking of PSU, what PSU do you have in there?
 
It could be the motherboard, RAM, or power supply.

#1. Download memtest86+, burn it, boot from it, and let it run all the way through the test.

http://www.memtest.org/

If it fails anything on the test, the RAM is definitely bad.

If it passes everything, download hci memtest and let it run. It will find flakey RAM as it stresses the RAM more than memtest86+ does.

http://hcidesign.com/memtest/


If the power supply is a cheapo one and/or flakey, it can cause a whole bunch of different symptoms.

You will also want to make sure your motherboard has the latest BIOS and drivers.

It could also be that the motherboard chipset is overheating. How hot do the chipset heatsinks get? If more than warm to the touch, try pointing a fan at them to see if it helps. Even opening up the case and using a standard floor fan will do the trick.
 
Thank you for the comprehensive reply. The PSU is a 680W Sunbeam PSU-HUSH680.

Danny Bui said:
[Testing the RAM]
Download Memtest86+ v2.11 or whatever the latest version is, unzip it, burn the ISO file to a CD, and then boot from it, just like you would do with the XP/Vista install CD. Let Memtest+ run for at least three hours on each stick of RAM separately as well as test the RAM all together. Go for a full 24 hours if you want to be completely sure that the RAM is not a problem. If you start seeing errors, than your RAM is defective or you have incorrect settings for the RAM.

[Testing the Hard drive]
Download the CD image of Hitachi Drive Fitness Test, burn the ISO file to a CD, and then boot from it, just like you would do with the XP/Vista install CD. Test the hard drive and see if any problems are found. DFT will run on most manufacturers' hard drives. Alternatively, you can use Seagate's SeaTools for DOS to test a Seagate or Maxtor drive. For a Western Digital drive, you could use Data Lifeguard Tools for DOS to test a Western Digital drive.

[Testing the CPU]
Use Prime 95, OCCT, Orthos or Intel Burn Tool to stress test the CPU.

[Testing the GPU]
Use Furmark or ATI Tool to stress test the GPU. If you see any artifacts, the GPU could be overheating, too overclocked, or faulty.

[Testing the PSU]
Buy and use a digital multi-meter to monitor the voltages coming from the PSU. Follow the instructions for "Using a multi-meter to check voltages":
http://www.bfgpower.com/troubleshooting.html#DMM

If it was just the mobo, you don't need to spend $200 unless you actually need the features of a $200 mobo. So what features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc. In addition, if it was just the mobo, yes it is worth salvaging and saving the PC as it is a very good PC from a specs standpoint. Just unstable and sluggish due to any number of reasons, from shitty PSU to piss-poor work by Cyberpower PC.

Speaking of PSU, what PSU do you have in there?
Click to expand...
 
cyclone3d said:
You will also want to make sure your motherboard has the latest BIOS and drivers.

It could also be that the motherboard chipset is overheating. How hot do the chipset heatsinks get? If more than warm to the touch, try pointing a fan at them to see if it helps. Even opening up the case and using a standard floor fan will do the trick.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if this is chipset but my temps for my CPU cores and CPU info are all from 38C to 40C. The case doesn't seem all that well ventilated but again I'd assume that having issues on start-up before a full load can even be managed would negate some of that concern. It has two fans (1 side, and 1 back), and fan attached on the CPU and GPU. But the fans seem kinda weak.

My PSU, a 680W Sunbeam sells for $42 on Newegg.
 
Shit, it might just be your PSU. That Sunbeam is a crap PSU. the fact that it sells for $40 ($20AR), is a huge warning sign of its quality. In addition, consider the following facts:
- No mention whatsoever of how much amperage there is total on the +12V rail (no you do not add up the rails)
- No mention whatsoever of what temps it was rated at
- No mention of whether or not it was rated at peak or continuous
- No mention whatsoever of who is the actual manufacturer of the PSU
- Based on the seriously old ATX v2.0 specs of 2003 (we're currently at ATX v2.2 specs from 2006 IIRC)

So with all of those factors in mind, there's a good possibility that it's your PSU. Even if the PSu wasn't the problem, I'd still recommend replacing it anyway to void future and potential problems. A good choice for your current setup is the $50 Corsair 400CX 400W PSU. Though if you can buy a new PSU today, then the Antec Earthwatts EA500 500W PSU is a better buy at $56 (sales price so dunno how long it'll stay at that price)
 
I'll order the Antec. I'd do backflips if it was just the power supply and feel like a dunce for not replacing it sooner because I did read some criticism about the PSU and found it somewhat peculiar that a 680W would cost that little.

I'll try to have it delivered by early this week and update the thread with my results. In the meantime should that not work I'll get some CD's to burn for the other tests.

Thanks again.


Danny Bui said:
Shit, it might just be your PSU. That Sunbeam is a crap PSU. the fact that it sells for $40 ($20AR), is a huge warning sign of its quality. In addition, consider the following facts:
- No mention whatsoever of how much amperage there is total on the +12V rail (no you do not add up the rails)
- No mention whatsoever of what temps it was rated at
- No mention of whether or not it was rated at peak or continuous
- No mention whatsoever of who is the actual manufacturer of the PSU
- Based on the seriously old ATX v2.0 specs of 2003 (we're currently at ATX v2.2 specs from 2006 IIRC)

So with all of those factors in mind, there's a good possibility that it's your PSU. Even if the PSu wasn't the problem, I'd still recommend replacing it anyway to void future and potential problems. A good choice for your current setup is the $50 Corsair 400CX 400W PSU. Though if you can buy a new PSU today, then the Antec Earthwatts EA500 500W PSU is a better buy at $56 (sales price so dunno how long it'll stay at that price)
Click to expand...
 
Run the tests mentioned above and isolate the problem instead of guessing. Whatevet component is bad won't cost over 100ish plus your time to fix.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
I know this is probably jumping the gun and if I ran tests I might be able to deduce I only need a new mobo, but I'm thinking of doing this:

Antec 500W PSU
OCZ Vista upgrade 2X2GB PC2 6400 DDR2 800:
GIGABYTE GA-G41M-ES2L LGA 775 Intel G41 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

Total =$165 with shipping

I just need ideas on a case. I want something that has at least 2 powerful fans and a temperature gauge preferably, and I also hate the artificial lighting color cases I'd prefer something sleek and perhaps all black.

I really just think this CyberPower PC built configuration is ass, and this will allow me to use the video card, processor, hard drive, operating system disc on my new parts. Does this seem like the best idea? Plus it'd give me experience actually building a PC from scratch. I'm terrified at building it though.
 
Case recommendations:
$40 - Cooler Master Elite 332 RC-332-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$45 - Cooler Master Elite 334 RC-334-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$50 - Cooler Master Elite 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$50 - Cooler Master Elite 331 RC-331-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$50 - Thermaltake WingRS 201 VJ60001N2Z ATX Case
$55 - Antec 300 ATX Case
$60 - Cooler Master RC-590-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$70 - Cooler Master Sileo 500 RC-500-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$70 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K1B ATX Case
$75 - Cooler Master RC-690-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$80 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K7B ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li PC-7B Plus II ATX Case
$90 - AeroCool Masstige ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li PC-K6 ATX Case
$120 - Thermaltake ElementS VK60001N2Z ATX Case
$145 - Antec P182 ATX Case
$140 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$160 - Antec P183 ATX Case
$200 - Cooler Master Cosmos S 1000 RC-1100-KSN1-GP Full Tower ATX Case
$200 - Cooler Master ATCS 840 RC-840-KKN1-GP Full Tower ATX Case
$200 - Lian Li PC-V1100A Plus II ATX Case
$220 - Silverstone FT01-B ATX Case
$250 - Lian Li PC-V1200B Plus II ATX Case
$240 - Lian Li PC-A71B ATX Case
$285 - Silverstone TJ09-B Full Tower ATX Case
$320 - Silverstone TJ10-B Full Tower ATX Case
$330 - Silverstone Temjin SST-TJ07B Full Tower ATX Case

I 'd swap out the OCZ RAM for this Corsair RAM due to Corsair's better customer support IMO:
$47 - Corsair TWIN2X4096-6400C5 2 x 2GB DDR2 800 RAM

There's a ton of links in the stickied General Hardware FAQ about how to build a PC.
 
Help!

Guys I got the following:

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128388
Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007

The power won't turn on at all, no fans turn on at all. I also placed in my old Power Supply and had same result!

There is one two-pin connector from the case that says power switch, and i can't find a place for it on the motherboard. No idea what I'm doing wrong.

Here's a pic of it: http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1138/photo9hau.jpg
 
Well there is your problem. The power switch wire is the power button :D. Won't do you any good without it.



You need to plug in there. Near the 24pin ATX power slot.

From the above picture:
Negative (-) = Left side (white wire)
Positive (+) = Right side (blue wire)

(Check your motherboard's booklet for more info. Around page 26. If you have trouble plugging in your 3-pin Power LED check around page 25)

Also since you change your motherboard to a different chipset it might not boot up right. Would have been good to do a sysprep to prepare your computer for the new motherboard. If it does boot up I advise you to back-up your data and do a reformat.
 
Last edited:
That's so not fair that they place the power switch there, I was looking for two isolated pins to plug it into. I spent several hours re-plugging things, etc, and finally unplugged EVERYTHING and was getting ready to ask one of the network engineers from my job to come over next week to help me out.

So basically tomorrow morning I'm planning to merely plug the power supply 4 pin in, the 24pin, and the power switch to where you circled, and then even with nothing else plugged in i should have my power supply fans moving and my processor fan correct?

Also, does it matter which way my processor is inserted? One of the little snaps clicked into place and it feels tight enough but it almost looks like it's placed in backwards since the text is upside down if you are staring from the cases side..

Thanks so much and Ill let you know what happens tomorrow, dead tired now or I'd do it now.

DTN107 said:
Well there is your problem. The power switch wire is the power button :D. Won't do you any good without it.



You need to plug in there. Near the 24pin ATX power slot.

From the above picture:
Negative (-) = Left side (white wire)
Positive (+) = Right side (blue wire)

(Check your motherboard's booklet for more info. Around page 26. If you have trouble plugging in your 3-pin Power LED check around page 25)

Also since you change your motherboard to a different chipset it might not boot up right. Would have been good to do a sysprep to prepare your computer for the new motherboard. If it does boot up I advise you to back-up your data and do a reformat.
Click to expand...
 
It should power up just like you say if you plug in the 4-pin, 24-pin, and power switch.

For the CPU it does matter how you place it in.

If you look carefully at your CPU you will see a notch on the left and right side of the CPU.

In the CPU socket there is these nubs that will go into the notches on the CPU.

 
First:

TIE up that cpu fan power cord better, its too close to the fan. Actually looks like it's in the fan from that picture. Take the knot out of the cord, fold it over on itself so it's just long enuff to reach the connector and then secure it with zip ties. I'd also zip tie that loose audio connector to the main part of the cable so it isn't laying on the video card but thats just me, I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to wiring. Oh and plug that reset switch in too:D. Take a look at the case mod forum for some ideas on how to clean up the wiring.

Second:

I hate to say it, but you really should RTFM, which stands for read the freakin manual. I don't say that to be mean, as people often will, but to help you in your learning. The book that comes with the Gigabyte motherboard is really decent as motherboard manuals go and will explain a lot. On every new system I build I always check the manual to verify the case connections with the motherboard. I've had motherboards that had the pin headers on the board marked wrong, I've seen manuals that had them reversed, heck I even came across a cheap case that had the wires reversed on the power LED, white was positive and the red wire was negative :rolleyes: not that looking at a manual would have made any difference on that one.
 
Are we sure there's nothing else that needs to be plugged in to make the PSU fans go besides the 24pin, 4pin, and power and reset switch? I've plugged in the power and reset every different possible combo I'm pretty sure, yet i can't even get the power supply to turn on, am I still missing something?

photo10p.jpg
 
Guys, I unscrewed the very top of the case where the power/reset wires are routed from, and I noticed a yellow glue looking goo on both the power and reset connections but not on ANY other wire? Here's a pic..

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7378/photo11zwy.jpg

Is this normal? Are these wires fried somehow or is this commont to have this yellow glue looking stuff on them?

The entire connection is like filled of this glue and little strands are coming out from it..
 
Its normal. The glue is just to hold small wires in place like the power/reset wires.

A bit of a cheap method but it works.

The other wires are safe since they are using sockets and plugs.

LearninToBuild said:
Are we sure there's nothing else that needs to be plugged in to make the PSU fans go besides the 24pin, 4pin, and power and reset switch? I've plugged in the power and reset every different possible combo I'm pretty sure, yet i can't even get the power supply to turn on, am I still missing something?
Click to expand...

Did you flip the on switch behind the PSU?

Circle = Off

Line = On
 
Last edited:
Yeah I flipped on/off, also made sure to rotate the power and reset switches in every possible combo but did adhere to the -/+ order.

At this point I don't know if I should dis-assemble everything, try the mobo in my other case, or if i should try my power supply in another case, or just have someone come look at it for me and see if i'm not making some dumb mistake.

But I'm pretty sure simply plugging 24+4+power switch is something i was able to do and i got no juice whatsoever. Sound like a dead mobo?
 
cyclone3d said:
It could be the motherboard, RAM, or power supply.

#1. Download memtest86+, burn it, boot from it, and let it run all the way through the test.
Click to expand...

Little late to post this.. but I recommend letting memtest 86+ run for as long as you have time for, as in overnight, through day etc. At least 12 hours or so.
 
Ok I installed the CPU and fan, but still no dice and cant draw any power from the power supply.... i only have the CPU fan, 4pin, 24pin, and tiny 2pin power switch connected... i also made sure to connect it both ways, with the white wire one way and blue the other, because it doesnt have a -/+ on the actual tiny wire.
 
Guys is there any way that the power supply isnt compatible with the mobo? Ive had some really sharp guys troubleshoot with me and its all plugged in like they say and my case power switches look normal but i cant get ANY power to draw whatsoever.

LearninToBuild said:
Help!

Guys I got the following:

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128388
Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007

The power won't turn on at all, no fans turn on at all. I also placed in my old Power Supply and had same result!

There is one two-pin connector from the case that says power switch, and i can't find a place for it on the motherboard. No idea what I'm doing wrong.

Here's a pic of it: http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1138/photo9hau.jpg
Click to expand...
 
The board might be shortening out.

When you install the motherboard did you screw it into the panel? I know it might sound silly but there have been cases where some people forget to install the "stand-offs".



~Edit~
The PSU should be compatible with your motherboard.
 
Dang, those screws came with either the Mobo or Case but I never used them.

I just used silver screws, and actually all but one screw are in because it seemed like it wasn't long enough.

What do I do now? Did I completely fry it by trying to power on or am I still okay?

DTN107 said:
The board might be shortening out.

When you install the motherboard did you screw it into the panel? I know it might sound silly but there have been cases where some people forget to install the "stand-offs".



~Edit~
The PSU should be compatible with your motherboard.
Click to expand...
 
Those screws come with the case.

A friend of mine did this once. The motherboard still work in the end but a bit funky. In the end we RMA it after a month.

Hate to say this... but... looks like you will need to remove everything out of the computer once again (but leave the CPU and heatsink on). You will then need to install the stand-offs and reinstall everything.

If you want to just go ahead and test the motherboard then do this.

1) Remove the motherboard and place it on top of something non-conductive (such as the motherboard's anti-static bag and on top of a box).

2) Insert the 4-pin, 24-pin, and a memory stick.

3) Locate the power switch pins on the motherboard and tap it with a small driver to power on the board.

Pray the board still works. If not then it looks like you will need to RMA the board to newegg :(.
 
OMG I'm so excited!!!!!!!!!!!!

I removed everything like you said and i powered on and FANS SPUN! I immediately shut down

really hope the board works

hey , do i need to not use the PC until i go buy special thermal grease for processor, or since it has the cooler itll be fine? im really excited and want to try installing the other components and booting up
 
There's something epic about this post.

Your heatsink and/or cpu should have thermal grease btw.
 
Problem- I hit power on, the fans sometimes spin for like 3 seconds then STOP RANDOMLY.

WTF?

And sometimes I hit power on nothing happens
 
Guys guess what! I realized why the fans kept stopping after 2 secs and the Mobo wouldn't post.

It was because the RAM was not inserted all the way, when i removed both sticks fans came on STRONG and wouldnt stop, so i clicked them in tight and then the PC turned on normally.

Now im just trying to load into Windows, i keep getting startup errors that i cant load into Windows, i think maybe b/c i changed chipsets, but the good news is it seems all my components posted and the fans are steady and strong, and things seem normal other than not being able to load windows yet. but i can always put vista on if my windows7 doesnt pick up or try the mobo BIOS cd...

right now it says Startup Repair is checking system for problems on the windows 7 screen... says Attempting Repairs
 
Dude you need to calm down, and you should have read a full blown pc setup guide before you even took anything out of the box. :eek:
 
Problem now is i cant get anything to boot to CD, but the power plug works for the cd ROM, the problem is my mobo doesnt support the 24 pin kinda IDE connector my old mobo did, and the SATA doesnt plug in either. on my mobo is a tiny little 4 pin vertical prong that says CD in but i dont have any cables matching that not even sata or sata 2.... its weird looking

It is a tiny tiny 4 pin right next to a different 2 pin, cant find the name of the cable anywhere AND the mobo manual only refers to it as an audio cable that plugs into mobo for the CD-ROM.....
 
Last edited:
Ok, my motherboard has 4 SATA connectors and one PATA (IDE). However, the many pin IDE (which my cd-rom drive supports only) is the only on the board. Since i have my hard drive connected in SATA1, is my CD-Rom drive not working because if i plug it in the IDE it assumes its the master over the hard drive?

this is what the back of my CD-rom drive looks like: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowI...E-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model iHDP118-04

This is what my mobo looks like:: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowI...41M-ES2L Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

What throws me off is there is a really small 4 pin connector on my mobo that says "CD IN" and in the Mobo manual it merely says connect the audio cable to the optical drive, it doesnt specify what cable i need exactly to use.

Here's that CD-IN: http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2774/cdin.jpg

Id really appreciate some guidance i'm so close i think and the manual really doesnt go into great detail... plus anything i google just shows to install the cd rom drive, not connect it..
 
I have never connected the CD sound cable so I have no idea what it is for.
 
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