Old Hippie
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Personally I find it unbeliveable that soo many were sucked into the "affordable for the masses" mindset.
I have no idea why those thoughts occurred.
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Intel New SSD's next month?
- Thread starter zod96
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Personally I find it unbeliveable that soo many were sucked into the "affordable for the masses" mindset.
I have no idea why those thoughts occurred.
I'm grabbing 2 of the 120's the day they're released. My original Vertex 120's have been flawless the last 2 years. This will be a very nice upgrade.
Old Hippie
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Bummer.
Why 2x 120's instead of 1 240? Is there a significant performance difference? Are you not going to get massive performance degradations needing to go through RAID as opposed to AHCI?
You're thinking about the 25nm G3's, which aren't out yet. Intel's been keeping hush hush about that for some reason.
Are you kidding? RAID0 scaling with these things is unbelievable. If you are talking strictly TRIM then yeah, no TRIM in RAID, but the Vertex's garbage collection algorithms, in practice, work like a charm. I've had and/or built problably 10+ systems using different Vertex SSDs in RAID0 and the results are amazing. No degradation after years of use. RAID0 with these new Vertex 3's at SATA III speeds is going to kick some serious ass.
So, no thanks to the single 240. Been there done that with the single vs. RAID - benchmarked and real-world'd myself to death - just like I did with my old Raptors. RAID0 is king for me.
Yeah. Disappointed with this totally. I would get the C300 instead at this point. Cheaper and better random performance.
While sequential performance looks good on paper and benchmarks, that is not the reason to get an SSD. Lets face it, sequential performance on an SSD could be 0 - 4 times the performance of a Velociraptor. Random performance though is like 20+ times the performance on an SSD. Overly simplifying it, but even if a Velociraptor could do sequential at 400+ MBps, it would still feel slow as a boot drive.
While sequential performance looks good on paper and benchmarks, that is not the reason to get an SSD. Lets face it, sequential performance on an SSD could be 0 - 4 times the performance of a Velociraptor. Random performance though is like 20+ times the performance on an SSD. Overly simplifying it, but even if a Velociraptor could do sequential at 400+ MBps, it would still feel slow as a boot drive.
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I think newegg price is too high. In that link, Intel's suggest price is only $579
And let's do some simple math here, plain old ratio:
I can get a max. of $330 for a 160GB at ebay
so, 160/330 = 250 / x,
x = 515.63
so intel is saying because it's SATA 3, there is an extra cost of $100 or so
And let's do some simple math here, plain old ratio:
I can get a max. of $330 for a 160GB at ebay
so, 160/330 = 250 / x,
x = 515.63
so intel is saying because it's SATA 3, there is an extra cost of $100 or so
No, that is not the manufacturer suggested retail price. The 1000 unit actual price from Intel for the 250GB 510 SSD is $584 -- I have no idea where you got $579.
And as I've pointed out before, you are comparing apples and oranges. It is ridiculous to compare the ebay price of an SSD to the newegg retail price of an SSD. The newegg price for the 160GB X25-M is $390, the newegg 250GB 510 is $615 (incidentally, a 5% markup over the 1000-unit bulk price from Intel). $390 x 250/160 = $609. Which is only $6 less than the 250GB 510. All the prices are consistent.
http://newsroom.intel.com/community...es-featuring-super-fast-6gbps-sata-throughput
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Old Hippie
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Would some revised Vertex 3 numbers change your mind?
I'm a noob, is the 4KB random read numbers the most important factor for day to day usage for an SSD as the primary OS drive?
Abula
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It really depends on your intended use, read this old article, The SSD Manufacturers Bluff
Hmmm, So... AnandTech still says the Vertex 3 is the fastest drive they ever tested although the most important "4KB random read numbers" for day to day/normal use show that the C300's are still king. Great...because this just makes it harder as there is no clear cut winner...lol
I have a BNIB C300 128GB just sitting here as I bought it on a purchase twitch and now was going to sell it and buy a Vertex 3 120GB when they come out because it was, I thought, faster in every single way being next gen and all.
decisions, decisions, decisions...
Well im down to either a C300 256gb or C400 128gb... either way im stuck on a SATA II controller and have no intentions of upgrading my mobo or adding in a card. On a SATAII port for a single drive solution what is best? My Dual intel G1 drives are getting slower by the day despite TonyTrim or anythign else I try. My benches were fine and now seem to be all over place. I used to get writes in the 150s that now are in the 50s and reads ine the 500s that are now ~400. I got these when they first came out. So what's next? What is the best option for users stuck on SATA II?
Ruiner
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Any comments on the failure rates by brand as listed in Anand's review?
I've got a 2500k waiting for z68 and perhaps the 25nm parts will be sorted out at the same time.
I've got a 2500k waiting for z68 and perhaps the 25nm parts will be sorted out at the same time.
Abula
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Yup, im kinda dissapointed also, i waited for this new gen for a more than a year, expecting intel to wreck things, but seems they are also going into having bigger numbers in sequantials for bragging and marketing rights, while the 4k randoms are same. The Vertex 3 still has better than intels 510s, but not that trusty with all the OCZ shaddy things regarding their switch to 25nm on their vertex2....
Im almost to the point on just buying an intel G2 120gb and just forget this gen and wait for the next, or a c300. But then again you have the C400 coming, but might look a lot like an intel 510 (i think they will use the same controler, just firmware, maybe different memory...), and also the Intel G3... which many are putting it down because of its low sequential reads, but some put their randoms write/reads, as with the G2 seem to be really good, maybe will end up the highest on the market, Intel Third Generation X25-M SSDs Set to Launch in Mid-April.
Im probably going to wait for the Intel G3 and Micron/Crucial C400/M4 before i make up my mind.
Relativistic
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Double post; please delete
Relativistic
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My beef with the Intel 510 is this: isn't a prosumer/enterprise device like that supposed to have hardware encryption? By taking the easy way and using Marvell's controller Intel have missed another huge feature that a drive of this caliber should have.
That, and the random 4k reads which are less than the X-25V. (lol)
That, and the random 4k reads which are less than the X-25V. (lol)
[LYL]Homer
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Mid-March was the word from Crucial a couple of weeks ago.
Cheaper than the current prices for the older gen!
Are there numbers out on what we can expect from the C400's anywhere?
I just hope Crucial didn't take Intel's route and go for cheaper over faster. I mean I'll take faster and cheaper but not just cheaper...lol
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why do you assume that's Intel's cost? Why on earth would intel rel. their cost? That looks a lot like a wholesale lot price.
mattchapman
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Those are like bulk wholesale cost. Probably add 20% for retail.
[LYL]Homer
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Later in Q2 was what Anand was saying in one of his reviews.
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if that's intel to wholesale's price, then it's a lie. Read this:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1542927&highlight=intel
this thread is from Sept. 2010, the member is a Intel employee. Intel selling to employee at a discount of a G2 160GB SSD is $260, street price at Newegg is $400, street price at Ebay is $300
So if street price of the 250GB is $615, there is no way wholesale is 5% off.
Wrong again, HH. The price I mentioned is Intel's 1000 unit price. I even linked to Intel's press release in my earlier post -- it gives Intel's 1000 unit prices for the 120GB and 250GB models. If you think Intel is lying about their prices in their own press release, then you have more problems than I thought.
lol best reply in the thread.
I think Anand's conclusion that Intel got caught resting on their laurels is plausible... My only question is whether they still intend to release the G3 as a mid-range "for the masses" drive that will be slotted under the 500-series or whether they're going back to the drawing board on it (seems unlikely unless they're pushing it even further back into the 2nd half of the year).
If Intel is basically bowing out for this generation I'll probably just upgrade to a C400 once they're out and prices settle... I wanna shift one of the two Intel SSD in my sig to another computer and use the new one on my desktop ('cept in the SB rig I'm building rather than the sig rig).
Sandforce drives just don't inspire confidence in me, there hasn't been any major major issues but enough minor issues for me to avoid 'em. Talking about the firmware games they play w/manufacturers, unexpected shifts in production/performance like OCZ switching to 25nm, past performance degradation issues after the drives are filled once (even w/TRIM), hibernate issues, etc. etc.
If I was shopping for my laptop or something I wouldn't mind so much, they're still a strong value, I don't like to put up w/any downtime on my desktop though.
If Intel is basically bowing out for this generation I'll probably just upgrade to a C400 once they're out and prices settle... I wanna shift one of the two Intel SSD in my sig to another computer and use the new one on my desktop ('cept in the SB rig I'm building rather than the sig rig).
Sandforce drives just don't inspire confidence in me, there hasn't been any major major issues but enough minor issues for me to avoid 'em. Talking about the firmware games they play w/manufacturers, unexpected shifts in production/performance like OCZ switching to 25nm, past performance degradation issues after the drives are filled once (even w/TRIM), hibernate issues, etc. etc.
If I was shopping for my laptop or something I wouldn't mind so much, they're still a strong value, I don't like to put up w/any downtime on my desktop though.
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So wholesale and retail is making hardly any $ at all? in other words, intel is sucking in an arm and a leg on their profit margin?
Yes, w/custom firmware by Intel... In and of itself that doesn't mean much, Micron/Crucial took the same approach w/the C300 and that was/is a great drive; but Intel flip flopping from proprietary controllers to Marvell and not coming out ahead performance-wise is kind of disappointing.
I expect newegg is doing okay.
I am beginning to think that the Marvell controller makes it difficult to achieve high 4KB performance (Micron must have had to work hard at it), but easy to achieve high sequential results. Intel does seem to have squeezed higher sequentials out of the Marvell controller than Corsair did. If you are looking for incompressible-data sequential write speed, the 250GB Intel 510 is the performance leader, beating even the Vertex 3.
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Intel is being very responsible in this case of X25M-G2 and 510 series. two choices
1. The base endurance specification is the same for both series. Estimate 20GB/day write typical client workload, estimate 5 years, warranty 3-years.
2. For users with sensible needs, you can continue to use X25M-G2
3. For users which demand instant gratification for superior I/O rate, you can go for 510 series with marvell controller with aggressive sequential read/write rates.
The faster you write each time, the faster you reach your endurance limit. Maximum speed write rate entices users to write more perhaps due to good experience (like driving fast car), which will then burn through the endurance capacity faster.
Alright there a bit of half-truth, but you get the picture.
1. The base endurance specification is the same for both series. Estimate 20GB/day write typical client workload, estimate 5 years, warranty 3-years.
2. For users with sensible needs, you can continue to use X25M-G2
3. For users which demand instant gratification for superior I/O rate, you can go for 510 series with marvell controller with aggressive sequential read/write rates.
The faster you write each time, the faster you reach your endurance limit. Maximum speed write rate entices users to write more perhaps due to good experience (like driving fast car), which will then burn through the endurance capacity faster.
Alright there a bit of half-truth, but you get the picture.
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Must be awhile before Intel can get a performance based nand 25 controller to market. The Marvell is a good controller though.