Intel is losing against AMD

lcpiper

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With a minuscule lead in gaming, Intel is losing where it counts.
https://www.engadget.com/2019/11/28/amd-beating-intel-threadripper-ryzen/

Where it counts is a little subjective isn't it? I don't see that Intel is losing in the server room and VDI took a chunk out of the desktop market as did smart phones. I am seeing reports that the virtualized desktop market is expected to double by 2024 so that doesn't sound good for the physical desktop market. The government IT sector is talking Smart Phones and Tablets over Desktops. And I just bought an ASUS ROG Phone II with a dock that allows me to connect to my computer system, displays, external drives, keyboard and mouse. I can game on it as well as do anything else including Office 365 productivity. It's an experiment to see if I can adjust to smart phone gaming over desktop PC gaming and just leave the PC behind. It's not better, but it could be and I think this is simply a limitation of the developers in realizing that PC games can run on mobile without making huge adjustments to the UI experience. In short, there isn't much reason that I can't play Skyrim or anything else on my phone in this dock configuration.
 

Dreamerbydesign

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And yet their total volume dwarfs AMD. I do not like it but they really have a great deal of the market taken for sure just because of the sheer size difference.
But the gains, in percentage that AMD has gained in a short amount of time should be enough to worry Intel. Especially in the server segment.
 

Revdarian

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But the gains, in percentage that AMD has gained in a short amount of time should be enough to worry Intel. Especially in the server segment.

Agreed, personally I hope that amd would include avx512 on their next epyc and HEDT CPUs, just to drive the point home in one of the last bastions of Intel.

Ultrabooks and similar will be a hard thing to beat tho, and here's the other big bastion of team blue. Maybe with 7nm euv? Who knows...
 

Dreamerbydesign

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Agreed, personally I hope that amd would include avx512 on their next epyc and HEDT CPUs, just to drive the point home in one of the last bastions of Intel.

Ultrabooks and similar will be a hard thing to beat tho, and here's the other big bastion of team blue. Maybe with 7nm euv? Who knows...

so far AMD has shown they are competitive in the HEDT and consumer desktop chips. If they start breaking ground in ultra mobile, Intel really will be sweating. Competition is good though. It gives Intel some time to re coup, and come up with a better architecture.
 

drescherjm

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so far AMD has shown they are competitive in the HEDT and consumer desktop chips. If they start breaking ground in ultra mobile, Intel really will be sweating.

I agree. AMD has not pushed intel at all in the largest PC segment. If they can get a competitive 6C 7nm APU out soon this will cause Intel a lot of pain.
 

illli

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As much of a fan of the underdog as I am, Intel is still 10x the size, and owns 80% of the market. Probably 90% of server market, which is more profitable.
 

AlphaQup

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Right now at work we're experiencing over 1 month delays on our most popular laptops and desktops, Dell is siting processor shortages for our i5's (mobile and desktop) as the reason for delay, this is the 3rd or 4th time this year we're going through (very) extended lead times.

Of course, no AMD options available to us through our Dell Portal :(

Really making this Win10 upgrade project a lot more fun... think I'm going to be sleeping in my office come mid-January thanks to these shortages lol.

But anyway, it's a bummer we do not have AMD options on the professional side (for me at least), not a single offering with anything AMD in it (besides the W/FirePro line in our workstations), server-side included.
 

5150Joker

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Right now at work we're experiencing over 1 month delays on our most popular laptops and desktops, Dell is siting processor shortages for our i5's (mobile and desktop) as the reason for delay, this is the 3rd or 4th time this year we're going through (very) extended lead times.

Of course, no AMD options available to us through our Dell Portal :(

Really making this Win10 upgrade project a lot more fun... think I'm going to be sleeping in my office come mid-January thanks to these shortages lol.

But anyway, it's a bummer we do not have AMD options on the professional side (for me at least), not a single offering with anything AMD in it (besides the W/FirePro line in our workstations), server-side included.

Why not ditch Dell and go with a better brand?
 

Lakados

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Right now at work we're experiencing over 1 month delays on our most popular laptops and desktops, Dell is siting processor shortages for our i5's (mobile and desktop) as the reason for delay, this is the 3rd or 4th time this year we're going through (very) extended lead times.

Of course, no AMD options available to us through our Dell Portal :(

Really making this Win10 upgrade project a lot more fun... think I'm going to be sleeping in my office come mid-January thanks to these shortages lol.

But anyway, it's a bummer we do not have AMD options on the professional side (for me at least), not a single offering with anything AMD in it (besides the W/FirePro line in our workstations), server-side included.
Contact your rep, let them know and they can put together options for you instead. I’ve found them more responsive that way lately anyways.
 

Lakados

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As much of a fan of the underdog as I am, Intel is still 10x the size, and owns 80% of the market. Probably 90% of server market, which is more profitable.
Intel currently has more than 95% of the server market down from 99% 2 years ago. So I would agree Intel isn’t loosing to AMD on any financial front, it would be far more accurate and far less clickbaity to say AMD is gaining ground.
 

AlphaQup

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Why not ditch Dell and go with a better brand?

I wish we could! Company of 60,000+ world-wide, we do get great deals on pricing being as large as we are... but when your entire enterprise is a Dell shop, we can only really deviate from that only if there is a VERY good reason. Slight delays in shipment certainly don't fit.

Contact your rep, let them know and they can put together options for you instead. I’ve found them more responsive that way lately anyways.

We used to be able to do this... but now all ordering comes from a single page company-wide, with few exceptions (our high end CAD guys, simulation machines, etc. do get to deviate from this), but for the most part, I lost darn near all my flexibility about last year.

Yay Corporate-mandated standards... I'm not pleased with it at all, but I get why they're doing it...

Because Dell has best support options, cleanest billing & invoicing, and better business practices on a whole for large orders. HP and Lenovo are distant second on those fronts.

Other then getting refurbished parts on a brand new machine... 100% agree with this. I can get whatever part I need next day after spending under 5 minutes filling out a form. Can't really beat that.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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As much as I love seeing AMD having some success, everyone must acknowledge that this can never be more than temporary, right?

Intel have an army of engineers, and as soon as they recover from their production process setback, they are going to be crushing everyone again.

I love AMD, but they are a tiny company compared to Intel. No way they can keep up with Intel once they have process parity.
 

lcpiper

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But the gains, in percentage that AMD has gained in a short amount of time should be enough to worry Intel. Especially in the server segment.

Not at all. This isn't the first time that AMD has come out with solid server offerings. What was it before? Opteron? The point is, ups and downs will always happen but a substantial long term shift takes more than just a single new and competitive product especially in the server market because of how tech refresh is typically handled.. A small server room might replace all of their servers one year, network equipment the next, storage after that, but not large data centers. The big boys replace in slices and don't jump architectures lightly because they are always concerned with the comparability issues. Add to that the growth in SDDC and HCI and a lot of the little guys that could easily swap entire server setups are renting their infrastructure services instead. I think it's getting harder and harder for a competitor to make a serious challenge.

Now this is in the server room, not the desktop work space.
 

Mazzspeed

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I've been running dual X5675's for gawd knows how long now, there's just been no real reason to upgrade as my system runs an m.2 SSD via a pcie adapter that's my OS boot drive and supports SATA 3 via a pcie raid card flashed to IT mode - It does absolutely everything I need it to do with ease, including the occasional spot of gaming.

But I must admit, looking at the Ryzen 9's is tempting me to upgrade. I think my next purchase may be AMD. Intel did me well for so long, it's time to try something new.
 

5150Joker

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As much as I love seeing AMD having some success, everyone must acknowledge that this can never be more than temporary, right?

Intel have an army of engineers, and as soon as they recover from their production process setback, they are going to be crushing everyone again.

I love AMD, but they are a tiny company compared to Intel. No way they can keep up with Intel once they have process parity.

This is true but then again maybe not. The reason I'm skeptical now is because in the past Intel had a huge lead thanks to it's foundry business but with TSMC and now Samsung catching up and/or surpassing them, AMD can rely on them to stay ahead of the curb and keep pushing Ryzen successors out. While Intel will probably end up surpassing AMD again by a bit, it won't eclipse it like it did in the past. If I didn't already have a 9900K today, I'd definitely grab a 3950x.
 

Snowdog

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It's kind of amazing how Intel the decades long Process King, has imploded. Not only is their 10nm process extremely late, and under-performing. They have been short supply on the ultra mature 14nm process for years.

It makes them look kind of inept, when they used to look invincible. I really don't know how there haven't been several high level firings over this epic debacle in their process departments.

That's the process side: Disaster.

Now on business planning, you would think they would recognize AMD has great product, and AMD is winning enthusiast market share, and mindshare as well, and try to be more competitive within their current limitations.

But instead of doing some obvious things to make their product more appealing, Intel keeps segmenting by turning off Hyper Threading like they have no competition. It's completely boneheaded.

Look at every CPU buyer guide everywhere. The king of mid-range all round CPUs for everything everywhere is the 6C 12T Ryzen 3600, and it's practically uncontested. Why? Because Intel disabled Hyperthreading on it's 6 Core Desktop parts. Without Hyperthreading Intel can't really compete.

Intel is suffering Not only from Silicon manufacturing debacle, they are adding incredibly bad market segmentation on top of that.

It's hard to imagine Intel springing back anytime soon. They really need a good house cleaning and a good wakeup call.

How can any decision maker sitting on year after year of an ongoing process debacle, think it's a good idea to purposefully hamstring their long in the tooth product by disabling Hyper Threading across the majority of the desktop lineup? This practically handed the victory in every segment, without AMD really even having to offer more cores, since Intel kindly hobbled their own.

Apparently eventually we get a 10 core Desktop CPU, with warmed over Lake core, on a warmed over 14nm process again. Will Intel have the brains to ditch the IGP on the 10 core part? This is kind of their last gasp to hold an edge in gaming or something. They MUST ditch the IGP, and use the space for a large cache. They need every trick in the book to be relevant.

But I don't have much hope of that. Intel seems to be keeping the same inept poeple that got them into this mess, in charge and making more bad decisions.
 

thesmokingman

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As much as I love seeing AMD having some success, everyone must acknowledge that this can never be more than temporary, right?

Intel have an army of engineers, and as soon as they recover from their production process setback, they are going to be crushing everyone again.

I love AMD, but they are a tiny company compared to Intel. No way they can keep up with Intel once they have process parity.

Huh? Temporary as in they hire AMD ppl into key positions? They brought in Keller to fix their process and yet, they go to Samsung sign of them throwing in the towel. Only temp?
 

Snowdog

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Huh? Temporary as in they hire AMD ppl into key positions? They brought in Keller to fix their process and yet, they go to Samsung sign of them throwing in the towel. Only temp?

Wouldn't hiring Keller be a sign that they are going to bounce back? Almost Everywhere Keller worked, great products followed.
 

Auer

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So if the 9600KF stays at $180 or so it would be tempting to make a 5Ghz Photoshop workstation :p
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Huh? Temporary as in they hire AMD ppl into key positions? They brought in Keller to fix their process and yet, they go to Samsung sign of them throwing in the towel. Only temp?

You can't expect Intel's fabs to permanently have fallen behind. they screwed up one node, 10nm, but in the next now they will come roaring back, and then you have the very familiar David and Goliath matcchup again.

Just like what happened when Intel screwed up with netburst and P4. It gave AMD an opening to come in, but ultimately when Intel fixes their mistake, the unequal drubbing continued.
 

Snowdog

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thesmokingman

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You can't expect Intel's fabs to permanently have fallen behind. they screwed up one node, 10nm, but in the next now they will come roaring back, and then you have the very familiar David and Goliath matcchup again.

Just like what happened when Intel screwed up with netburst and P4. It gave AMD an opening to come in, but ultimately when Intel fixes their mistake, the unequal drubbing continued.

AMD came back because Intel fell asleep at the wheel. Management and engineering both failed to continue to evolve. I don't think AMD is going to fall asleep and give Intel time to catch up. Their fab is in a mess. Keller has been there a year and a half now. They're not any better off. Don't get me wrong, they're still a huge behemoth and they can turn it around. I just don't it will be turned around like you think that quickly.
 

thesmokingman

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Debunked. Intel is only farming out Chipsets and support pieces, not CPUs.

Though I am not saying they aren't in trouble(read my post above). I just wouldn't point to Keller as a sign of that trouble. He is one of the few bright spots.

It shows they need HALP!
 

Mega6

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Keller and team will need at least two more years to crank out a new arch. Signing samsung is a stop gap as snowdog mentioned. AMD is running the old intel tick tock against them and every click has been good. So for once - AMD is executing flawlessly.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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AMD came back because Intel fell asleep at the wheel. Management and engineering both failed to continue to evolve. I don't think AMD is going to fall asleep and give Intel time to catch up. Their fab is in a mess. Keller has been there a year and a half now. They're not any better off. Don't get me wrong, they're still a huge behemoth and they can turn it around. I just don't it will be turned around like you think that quickly.

As you point out, AMD is in the position they are now, not because they suddenly became amazing at developing chips. They hired a consultant (a good one) who helped them come out with an OK design. If Intel hadn't dropped the ball and totally screwed up their 10nm process, Ryzen would have been a great improvement for AMD, something that would have cut their deficit to Intel compared to the miserable FX line, bit they still would have been hopelessly behind.

The ONLY reason AMD is in the game right now is because Intel had a process screwup. They will fix that in the next gen. At that point Intel's arch on the new smaller bode will instantly allow them to be in the leadership position again.

What AMD has right now is a process advantage, not a design advantage. This here is all about Intel's screwup and how when they fix it, things will be right back to normal, unless AMD really gets their shit in gear, optimizes the hell out of their new arch, and is able to survive once Intel has an OK process again.
 

thesmokingman

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As you point out, AMD is in the position they are now, not because they suddenly became amazing at developing chips. They hired a consultant (a good one) who helped them come out with an OK design. If Intel hadn't dropped the ball and totally screwed up their 10nm process, Ryzen would have been a great improvement for AMD, something that would have cut their deficit to Intel compared to the miserable FX line, bit they still would have been hopelessly behind.

The ONLY reason AMD is in the game right now is because Intel had a process screwup. They will fix that in the next gen. At that point Intel's arch on the new smaller bode will instantly allow them to be in the leadership position again.

What AMD has right now is a process advantage, not a design advantage. This here is all about Intel's screwup and how when they fix it, things will be right back to normal, unless AMD really gets their shit in gear, optimizes the hell out of their new arch, and is able to survive once Intel has an OK process again.

Jim Keller will never say it was all him. As much as we want to praise, it wasn't just him. He led the team but it wasn't just him. As for Intel, no they are screwed. They now have to fast track to heterogeneous computing (aka bring in Keller). However, he won't be able to help them get to where AMD is since he can't use anything trademarked or work product. They will be behind the curve in arch for a while. It's not like AMD's gonna sit around and rest on their laurels are they? They have two major issues, their process is broke and they need a new arch that is not monolithic. They are slow as molasses to react because of their reliance on monolithic designs and its also partly tied to their process failure.

lol wut, did you just call AMD's Zen an "ok" design?
 
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Red Falcon

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Intel won't lose due to the sheer difference in volume they each can supply. It isn't even a contest, heck that's why both had amazing financial years.
In the short and even medium-run, you are correct.
It will take AMD years of the following performance leads and activity in order to truly beat Intel, but it could be done, and certainly so after a decade of said continued performance.

I get the feeling that ARM is going to overtake x86-64 by that point, or will at least be a true competitor on all fronts, most likely by 2030 with a rough guestimate.
 
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