Intel Celeron DC E3x00 - WTF Is Intel Doing?

[PGHammer]

Intel has now Officially Confused me by doing something completely "screwy"

For some reason, Intel used the brouhaha over LGA1156 to sneak in two new LGA775 CPUs in the bargain range - the Celeron DC E3200 and E3300.

Like all Celeron DCs, they are based on a cut-down Core 2 Duo (in this case, Wolfdale); however, there are two marked differences from the previous Celly DCs.

1. Increased on-die cache - These Celeron DCs have 1 MB of L2 (compared to 512KB of L2 with the E1x00 Celeron DC).

2. VT-x (hardware virtualization) - Unlike other Celeron DCs (or any Pentium DC, for that matter), these two bargain beasties support VT-x.

While I'm perfectly aware that Windows 7 (specifically Windows Virtual PC) requires VT-x, why would Intel bring VT-x down to the budget range, when it still has plenty of VT-x-supporting Core 2 Duo (not to mention Core 2 Quad) inventory to sell?

Right now, Newegg carries both of these Celeron DCs (amazingly, MicroCenter doesn't carry either one); however, can someone explain Intel's strategy?

 

[Riccochet]

Maybe something to do with being Win7 compatible in the budget processor market.

 

[PGHammer]

Maybe something to do with being Win7 compatible in the budget processor market.

Then why not "Pentium Dual-Core" instead?

Considering these are priced similarly, why would anyone buy a Pentium DC (no VT) when this is available?

I'm thinking more in terms of profit margin (not to mention that these are basically Pentium DC killers).

 

[Nuc_E]

The real question is why Intel didn't include it in all processors but their very budget single cores in the first place. (yeah, I know, it's to try to make you purchase a more expensive part)

There are e6xxx and e7xxx parts out that support VT. Intel is probably making up for not including it previous budget processors..

 

[BillParrish]

Please edit and get rid of the "WTF" in the tread title. I know its picky but it is considered by the higher ups to be cussing in the thread title and thus not allowed by the rules. A common mistake, no bigge, but if you would clean that up I would apreciate it.

 

[rflcptr]

Yeah, the E3200 seems to have awesome value. I'll probably build my long-awaited SFF system with it.

 

[rflcptr]

Right now, Newegg carries both of these Celeron DCs (amazingly, MicroCenter doesn't carry either one); however, can someone explain Intel's strategy?

With the price and inclusion of VT-x, they're tearing up AMD's low-end. Looking at the Celeron Dual-Core E3200, at $52.99, it is priced just under the processors in AMD's $50 - $75 range and just above AMD's sub-$50 lineup, a single core processor.

 

[Zero82z]

Intel has started adding VT-x to all of their CPUs since the announcement that XP mode will require it. It isn't just the Celeron line. Obviously any Pentium Dual-Core and Celeron chips without it that were already in the channel will still be there, but all of the new chips that Intel is making have the tech enabled.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...microprocessors#.22Wolfdale-3M.22_.2845_nm.29

All of the non-EOL models have had VT-x added.

 

[jeremyshaw]

With the price and inclusion of VT-x, they're tearing up AMD's low-end. Looking at the Celeron Dual-Core E3200, at $52.99, it is priced just under the processors in AMD's $50 - $75 range and just above AMD's sub-$50 lineup, a single core processor.

It's priced right where it shoud be.

It doesn't have any features ANY of the AMD CPU don't have (including VT), and cannot outperform any of the Athlon II x2 series. The 5000 series are from mid 2007, and have been displaced by Phenom based CPU (Athlon II)

besides, it's only 10USD cheaper then the Athlon II, which is in a different class alltogether.

The LGA 775 cannot be used for much else, now, while the AM2 socket can be used with AM2+/AM3 socket CPU.

 

[rflcptr]

It's priced right where it shoud be.

It doesn't have any features ANY of the AMD CPU don't have (including VT), and cannot outperform any of the Athlon II x2 series. The 5000 series are from mid 2007, and have been displaced by Phenom based CPU (Athlon II)

That's part of my point, it's priced accordingly.

besides, it's only 10USD cheaper then the Athlon II, which is in a different class alltogether.

What class is that? The prices are relatively close together and the performance, at glance, is proportional to the pricing. I say they're competing products.

The LGA 775 cannot be used for much else, now, while the AM2 socket can be used with AM2+/AM3 socket CPU.

It isn't necessarily about where a socket may take you in the future, it's what it delivers now. Most people buy with this in mind than any other. Enthusiasts, not so much, but it's a niche market anyway. If you were to take two low-budget builds now, AMD and Intel, what would really set them that far apart?

 

[jeremyshaw]

Class.... is CPU that utterly destroys a Celeron e3300 (and please... check for your self. I'd hate to link to several sites [and none have direct comparisons, as these CPU are just too far apart in performance]).

AM2 delivers AM3 now! .

LGA775 has been relegated to the end zone, as 775 is not even compatible, pin wise, with the newer Intel Sockets.

 

[Zero82z]

The LGA 775 cannot be used for much else, now, while the AM2 socket can be used with AM2+/AM3 socket CPU.

What people don't seem to realize is that AM2+/AM3 is just as dead as LGA775, since AMD won't be releasing any more architectures for it. Even more so, AMD's current architecture is slower clock for clock than Intel's, and it also doesn't scale to higher clock speeds. So AMD's only advantage in that space is price, since Intel still has a performance lead.

 

[rflcptr]

Class.... is CPU that utterly destroys a Celeron e3300 (and please... check for your self. I'd hate to link to several sites [and none have direct comparisons, as these CPU are just too far apart in performance]).

Ok, I'll bite. The AMD Athlon II X2 240 @ 2.8 GHz at $62.99 vs. the Intel Celeron E3200 @ 2.4 GHz at $52.99:

Really quickly, from here, it reveals that the E3200 scored 1312 points vs the Athlon II 240's 1563 points. Basically, this tells us that, by spending ~19% more money on an AMD CPU at ~17% higher clock, we gain ~19% in CPU performance. But in absolute terms, the price difference is $10, which really isn't much. Clock-for-clock, these products are close, but the Intel offering logically consumes less power. In real-world usage, the performance difference is probably going to be less noticeable than 19%, as there are plenty of other factors to consider in system-wide performance under different applications.

All of this confirms my point: The products are direct competitors.

LGA775 has been relegated to the end zone, as 775 is not even compatible, pin wise, with the newer Intel Sockets.

Well, duh. What 1156 socket CPU falls into this discussion?

 

[jeremyshaw]

Ok, I'll bite. The AMD Athlon II X2 240 @ 2.8 GHz at $62.99 vs. the Intel Celeron E3200 @ 2.4 GHz at $52.99:

Really quickly, from here, it reveals that the E3200 scored 1312 points vs the Athlon II 240's 1563 points. Basically, this tells us that, by spending ~19% more money on an AMD CPU at ~17% higher clock, we gain ~19% in CPU performance. But in absolute terms, the price difference is $10, which really isn't much. Clock-for-clock, these products are nearly tied. In real-world usage, the performance difference is probably going to be less noticeable than 19%.

All of this confirms my point: The products are direct competitors.

Well, duh. What 1156 socket CPU falls into this discussion?

A synthetic benchmark... how pathetic.

Anyhow, the 1156 falls in because the 775 has no new, mid or high end CPU for it.
It's just a low-end budget socket.

The AM2, however, will support AM2+/AM3 CPU

 

[Zero82z]

Anyhow, the 1156 falls in because the 775 has no new, mid or high end CPU for it.
It's just a low-end budget socket.

The AM2, however, will support AM2+/AM3 CPU

Except AMD doesn't have any real mid-range or high-end CPUs, so AM2+/AM3 is technically a low-end platform as well.

 

[rflcptr]

A synthetic benchmark... how pathetic.

It's designed to measure component-specific performance (in this case, the CPU), which matters for our discussion. Although, as I said before, the real-world performance difference between both will most likely be less based on my reasons above. What benchmarks were you referring to, when you claimed that Athlon II's "utterly destroyed" Intel Celeron E3x00 series? What real-world apps were these? How much will it matter to those interested in low-budget builds?

Anyhow, the 1156 falls in because the 775 has no new, mid or high end CPU for it.
It's just a low-end budget socket.

False. At present, the 1156 CPU offerings (minimum $200 per CPU?) are miles outside of the realm of the budget CPUs being discussed. Until such exist, bringing them into the comparison is meaningless.

The AM2, however, will support AM2+/AM3 CPU

That's great, but 99% of the consumers don't care, which is what matters.

How many of those future CPUs will be competitive inside the price range we're discussing (CPU price < $75)?

 

[Koslov]

I might get a Celeron E3200 soon to play with,. I'm sure they OC like crazy with very little +vcore
thsu kicking the 240 out of the water

 

[Majeztik12]

DUDE!!! You can build a dual-core PC for next ta nuthin!!! w00t for the economic downtrodden!!! Free Linux distro and your set !!!

 

[jeremyshaw]

False. At present, the 1156 CPU offerings (minimum $200 per CPU?) are miles outside of the realm of the budget CPUs being discussed. Until such exist, bringing them into the comparison is meaningless.

That's great, but 99% of the consumers don't care, which is what matters.

How many of those future CPUs will be competitive inside the price range we're discussing (CPU price < $75)?

It isn't miles out, if it's the only option... (unless YOU want to bring the 1136 into this )

 

[Majeztik12]

PLUS!!! Throw in some cheap HD4830s!!! DUDE!!! I can build a Folding farm...The TeraFlops that would add up....!!!! MUUHHAHHH !!!!!! Parallel distribted computing...you have met your match!!!

 

[jeremyshaw]

PLUS!!! Throw in some cheap HD4830s!!! DUDE!!! I can build a Folding farm...The TeraFlops that would add up....!!!! MUUHHAHHH !!!!!! Parallel distribted computing...you have met your match!!!

meh. The NV cards are better at folding, atm.

 

[rflcptr]

It isn't miles out, if it's the only option... (unless YOU want to bring the 1136 into this )

You mean 1336. And no, they aren't the only options. Anyone interested in an inexpensive system will look at both AMD and Intel options (from AM2+/AM3 to LGA 775). Most people aren't going to care about "future-proofing" or whatever the term may be, they want something that does the "now" things.

 

[Majeztik12]

NV 0r ATI who gives a rats ass as long as you can do it for cheap!!! Didnt come her to argue just looking at the economic value!!! Haveing fun and pointing out the other side!!!

 

[jeremyshaw]

You mean 1336. And no, they aren't the only options. Anyone interested in an inexpensive system will look at both AMD and Intel options (from AM2+/AM3 to LGA 775). Most people aren't going to care about "future-proofing" or whatever the term may be, they want something that does the "now" things.

??

Better prove it.

I'd hate to buy a system, only to have no options on it later on (like my xbox...).

Maybe it's just me, or you're looking for a fight.

 

[TGA]

When I am dealing with PC's at this low end price point I am also usually dealing with a client that is going to be using integrated video. And I am sorry but once that is factored in the AMD systems come out looking quite a bit better.

However in the business world Intel is king and the integrated video solutions they have are perfectly acceptable. I suspect these chips will end up in many of the W7 desktops purchased in the corporate world.

For me I will continue to push the 785g and 770t paired with a slightly more expensive AMD CPU that at least stands a chance at unlocking some extra cores for free performance when appropriate and the Athlon II when the extra power consumption of a quad is just a waste. My reason for this is I know my client will at least have a viable upgrade path and that the market will be there for it when and if the time comes.

Many of the high end 775 parts already carry quite a price premium and that is only going to get worse.

 

[rflcptr]

??

Better prove it.

I'd hate to buy a system, only to have no options on it later on (like my xbox...).

Maybe it's just me, or you're looking for a fight.

Of course, you're keeping in mind that I'm not talking about enthusiasts?

For the vast majority of people, they're going to go looking for a system with their budget in mind, not whether a given system will or will not take a processor upgrade in the future.

 

[bigdogchris]

My comment on this is that Intel makes to many fucking cpu models.

 

[TGA]

Of course, you're keeping in mind that I'm not talking about enthusiasts?

For the vast majority of people, they're going to go looking for a system with their budget in mind, not whether a given system will or will not take a processor upgrade in the future.

Exactly and this is the very thing Intel is counting on to allow them to keep raking in the profits on the old tech. That and far too many believe that if they buy a cheap end of life system now they will be able to get a very high end CPU for a song and a dance when no one wants them. However I would suggest all these people look in to what happend to the price of Socket 478 P4's once replaced by the socket 775. The price on them at most retailers only spiked since they know they got you by the balls. You either pay out the ass for a CPU your system can use or you start over it's win win for the retailers and Intel either way.

 

[Atl530i]

Right now, Newegg carries both of these Celeron DCs (amazingly, MicroCenter doesn't carry either one); however, can someone explain Intel's strategy?

I'm also surprised that MC does not carry these. After looking at their CPU shelf last night, I would have thought that MC was in bed with Intel because there was 3 shelves for Intel and 1 for AMD....

 

[jeremyshaw]

Fry's carries the 3200, but not the 3300.

Funny, though, the e1500 and the e3200 are selling at the same price (50usd) here at Roseville Frys.

 

[PGHammer]

When I am dealing with PC's at this low end price point I am also usually dealing with a client that is going to be using integrated video. And I am sorry but once that is factored in the AMD systems come out looking quite a bit better.

However in the business world Intel is king and the integrated video solutions they have are perfectly acceptable. I suspect these chips will end up in many of the W7 desktops purchased in the corporate world.

For me I will continue to push the 785g and 770t paired with a slightly more expensive AMD CPU that at least stands a chance at unlocking some extra cores for free performance when appropriate and the Athlon II when the extra power consumption of a quad is just a waste. My reason for this is I know my client will at least have a viable upgrade path and that the market will be there for it when and if the time comes.

Many of the high end 775 parts already carry quite a price premium and that is only going to get worse.

Integrated/onboard video doesn't mean there is no upgrade path (even for graphics); a prime example are Intel's own G3x/G4x chipsets. Most motherboards with these chipsets have at least a single PCIe X16 slot and will swallow darn near any LGA775 CPU that's been in the pipeline over the last year (if not the last two) from Celeron to Core 2 Quad (not to mention nVidia's nForce 6 series for LGA775, which has the same sort of capability; this solution is usually intended for HTPC duty, but also includes that PCIe X16 slot).

I built this current system as a *bottom feeder* (look at the rig's contents; what new stuff there is is low-end/value). Yet I do everything except high-end gaming on it. Being [H] does not mean necessarily spending a mint.

Upgrades I have options for (practically any LGA775 CPU that supports VT and has at least two cores is on the table), and, other than graphics, no one upgrade is even $100 (and even there, HD5770 will fall just north of that, and HD4770 is just north of that now).

With the economy the way it is, the interest in bottom-fishing will only go up.

 

[PGHammer]

Fry's carries the 3200, but not the 3300.

Funny, though, the e1500 and the e3200 are selling at the same price (50usd) here at Roseville Frys.

Celeron DCs above the E1200 haven't mirrored their lower-priced cousins in flying off shelves (which is why you have E1xx0 and E3xx0 running into each other; MC still refuses to carry E3xx0 at all).

 

[jeremyshaw]

Celeron DCs above the E1200 haven't mirrored their lower-priced cousins in flying off shelves (which is why you have E1xx0 and E3xx0 running into each other; MC still refuses to carry E3xx0 at all).

Yeah, I got a decent deal on the 430 (20USD... must of been an end run?). the 420 was 35USD, so I was really confused.

 

[officermartinez]

Thread revival.. Just built a little HTPC with an E3200. All I can say is wow.. Obviously not a gaming rig, but that little booger kicks butt!