if a system needs to reboot several times when start up, is it the MB or PSU?

Happy Hopping

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So I saw this PC, 3.5 yr. old, just out of warranty for 0.5 yr., Gigabyte Ultra Durable motherboard, when I press the power button, the DVD spins, then it seems to be in a very slow motion, nothing happens, NO BEEP sound, then eventually win 10 boots up. The motherboard is connects to a Intel SSD, so boot up should be just a few seconds, but these slow boot up takes at least 30 to 45 sec.

Then in another scenario, the person who uses the PC said, after he push the power button, the DVD spins, then nothing happens, then after a short while, the DVD spin again, and then once again, nothing happens. Then on the 3rd time when the DVD spins, the PC boots up

So slightly different description than what I said, but very similar.

Now, the above doesn't happen all the time, just occasional

Now, after the PC warms up, it no longer does the above. So it seems to be heat related.

Is it the motherboard or the Power supply? please help
 
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pendragon1

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could be either. first test or replace the cmos battery. then try a psu next.
 

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discrete GPU or iGPU?

All drivers updated? Windows updated?
the machine was running win 7 last week. The problem already happens when it was running win 7, then I upgrade that PC to win 10, same problem. It doesn't happen after 1/2 hr. has passed. So I suspect:

THIS COULD BE A HEAT Related Problem. As the PC warms up, the problem disappear

since the problem disappear after the PC warms up, could this be more towards a PSU failure? as I notice there is some dust that hasn't been clean for 3 yr. at the bottom filter

EDIT:

there is no way the DVD burner could cause this?
 
Last edited:

Denpepe

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It could very well be the DVD burner if it is set in bios as primary boot device, at startup it needs to spin up to check if there is bootable media inside and then goes on to the next bootdevice.

Now normally it should not do that, could be that it happens because there is a disc in the drive? Anyways, a quick check in the bios to boot device priority can answer this quickly enough.
 

sirmonkey1985

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It could very well be the DVD burner if it is set in bios as primary boot device, at startup it needs to spin up to check if there is bootable media inside and then goes on to the next bootdevice.

Now normally it should not do that, could be that it happens because there is a disc in the drive? Anyways, a quick check in the bios to boot device priority can answer this quickly enough.
was just going to suggest the same thing.. reminds me of the old days where accidentally leaving a disc in the DVD/CD drive would screw up booting since it would attempt to boot off the disc.

i doubt it's temp related, odds are the bios may have a failure limit so once it fails to boot off the disc drive X amount of times it skips to the next boot device which is probably the hard drive. that would be my first guess.

also could you give us more details on the system? the other option depending on what it's using is that there's an issue with the memory and it's failing the memory training. up until recently i've never dealt with memory training so not sure how long ago the feature was added to bios(i went from a DDR2 system to DDR4).
 

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but there is no DVD inside. See, I know from experience that when the system has 2 drives, such as a SSD and a hard drive, and the hard drive is failing, the sys. will not boot. But in this case, say the DVD burner is dying, will it delay before it goes to the next device?

However, I'm 90% sure that the boot sequence is set to SSD first. And if it's not temperature related, I was at that house for 2.5 hr., it boots fine after the PC is warm. I mean, I was installing win 10, win 10 automatically re-boot several times, no problem there

the sys. is :

Gigabyte Ultra Durable, 3.4 yr. old motherboard, so the chipset is probably B150M or B250M

4 GB of Hyper X Kingston RAM
Pentium CPU
1 x Intel 240GB SSD
1 x DVD burner internal


and if you don't mind me saying so, I've never seen HyperX from Kingston fails.

the sys. is used to check email and internet browsing, just a few hr. a day.
 

OhSigmaChi

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and if you don't mind me saying so, I've never seen HyperX from Kingston fails.

the sys. is used to check email and internet browsing, just a few hr. a day.
Kingston makes tens of milions of RAM DIMMs, trust me there's a failure percentage. I'm not saying it is the RAM, but there's no way to prove it's not until you've a) reseated it in a different slot (assuming all slots aren't populated) or b) swapped in known good RAM.

Also, why not just unplug the DVD burner and see if problem persists?
 

Nanogrip

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If you've tried what everyone suggested and haven't yielded positive results, then I think you might need to clean your motherboard and its, including PCI-E and RAM slots. You can spray a bit of lubricant oil to a clean heavy duty paper towel, and wipe on the component side connections, then slot them in.
 

kirbyrj

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You can easily check to see if it's the DVD drive by disconnecting it. Might be a bad SATA cable.

RAM can be easily checked also. Grab a bootable memtest86 CD/USB and let it run. It's not foolproof, but at least it would give you an idea.

If that all checks out, then swap in a different PSU.
 

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Update:

the PC has to re-cycle 22 times in order to boot up. Then they leave the PC on for a no. of hr., may be over night. THen they said since this morning, (by leaving on last night), the PC boots up right away since. Any take on this? it does seems something is intermittently failing and somehow leave it on, makes it warmer, is easier for it to boot up
 
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Might be a short. Theres a very slim possibility that a trace heats up and expands enough to allow it to boot.
3rd times the charm maybe, has the dvd drive been disconnected prior to booting? If so, swap the psu with a known good unit. If you dont have access to one test the rails with a multi underload. If it continues to fail and the rails are solid, rebuild the rig on a cardboard box to eliminate the possibility of a short. Run memtest86 from a thumb drive or disc for 4 to 8hrs. If that doesnt help its 99% most likely the mb. 1% chance the gpu is at fault.
Component by component troubleshooting will find the failure.
GL!
 

Dodge245

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Update:

the PC has to re-cycle 22 times in order to boot up. Then they leave the PC on for a no. of hr., may be over night. THen they said since this morning, (by leaving on last night), the PC boots up right away since. Any take on this? it does seems something is intermittently failing and somehow leave it on, makes it warmer, is easier for it to boot up

Dead CMOS Battery. (is my upfront guess)

My concern here is have you tried any of the steps provided?

1. Enter BIOS and check boot order, change to SSD as first device, try boot. resolved?
2. Take a CMOS Battery out of a working MB and put it on the MB, try boot. resolved?
3. check Memory is ok, run something like MemTest and ensure the RAM is fine.
4. replace PSU and boot, still have the problem? Switch the SSD to another one(if you have an identical system just swap the drive?)
 

ryan_975

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Update:

the PC has to re-cycle 22 times in order to boot up. Then they leave the PC on for a no. of hr., may be over night. THen they said since this morning, (by leaving on last night), the PC boots up right away since. Any take on this? it does seems something is intermittently failing and somehow leave it on, makes it warmer, is easier for it to boot up

Sounds like several of the devices I've had in the past that developed bad caps on the power circuits. As time went on and the caps got worse, they got harder and harder to turn on or wake up. As long as they were on, they had no issues.


My suggestion: swap with a known good PSU and see if the problem persists. If it does, replace the motherboard.
 

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Sounds like several of the devices I've had in the past that developed bad caps on the power circuits. As time went on and the caps got worse, they got harder and harder to turn on or wake up. As long as they were on, they had no issues.


My suggestion: swap with a known good PSU and see if the problem persists. If it does, replace the motherboard.
The motherboard, is a B85M-B3H, so the capacitors are all Taiwanese solid cap. Now, they can't fail in 3.5 yr., can they? Even liquid capacitor doesn't fail that fast

The PC is sit 2 ft. from a balcony door, in which it's cold at night. But that room is still 20 deg. C

As soon as I can swing back to that place, I'll do the above tests that you guys suggest
 

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So there is a question I never bother ask before:

on any motherboard, there is number next to the DIMM slot,
4
2
3
1

so if you only have 1 x DIMM, you put in No. 1

is that the only slot you should put 1 x DIMM on? what if I do that re-sit that you guys suggest and put in say slot 3?

because I know w/ HP, if the slot is labelled 1, you have to put 1 x DIMM at No. 1 ONLY
 

pendragon1

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So there is a question I never bother ask before:

on any motherboard, there is number next to the DIMM slot,
4
2
3
1

so if you only have 1 x DIMM, you put in No. 1

is that the only slot you should put 1 x DIMM on? what if I do that re-sit that you guys suggest and put in say slot 3?

because I know w/ HP, if the slot is labelled 1, you have to put 1 x DIMM at No. 1 ONLY
RTFM. i had too as not all boards work like you think. my new board says if you only have one stick it goes in slot 2. so check your manual.
 

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just read the manual. It only install in 1& 3 for eg., if I want dual chnl. capacity. But it doesn't say if I only have 1 module, that I have to install at slot 1 for e.g.
 

pendragon1

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i see what you mean about the ram slots, says nothing about a single stick. when you get a chance the next thing to try would be a new psu.
 

Happy Hopping

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update:

I am going over there on Thurs. and take the entire PC back here to figure out what is going on

I am leaning on the Intel SSD. As I have seen this kind of things before: if the SSD is dying, then the PC will stalk a no. of times during boot up.

today, they said they can't click anything on the screen, such as Chrome. But they can click the shut down button. If this is a PSU failure, it cannot cause that. And I really don't believe in the motherboard failure, I have been install the Ultra Durable for many years, I never seen a failure. But w/ INtel SSD, this would be the 4th one that's dying
 

cyklondx

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So I saw this PC, 3.5 yr. old, just out of warranty for 0.5 yr., Gigabyte Ultra Durable motherboard, when I press the power button, the DVD spins, then it seems to be in a very slow motion, nothing happens, NO BEEP sound, then eventually win 10 boots up. The motherboard is connects to a Intel SSD, so boot up should be just a few seconds, but these slow boot up takes at least 30 to 45 sec.

Then in another scenario, the person who uses the PC said, after he push the power button, the DVD spins, then nothing happens, then after a short while, the DVD spin again, and then once again, nothing happens. Then on the 3rd time when the DVD spins, the PC boots up

So slightly different description than what I said, but very similar.

Now, the above doesn't happen all the time, just occasional

Now, after the PC warms up, it no longer does the above. So it seems to be heat related.

Is it the motherboard or the Power supply? please help
that sounds like ram training. Check if all sticks are the same, or deal with it.
 

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update:

shockingly, it's the motherboard.

I remove the memory, put in brand new memory, replace a different PSU, remove USB 3.0 port, remove DVD and SSD power plug, and it still won't boot

the motherboard is a B85M-D3H, the ultra durable series, only last 3.5 yr.

I so happen to have another PC w/ the very same motherboard and another CPU on it. So after replacing the motherboard w/ that other CPU, the whole thing works

the only thing I won't know is whether the failure is the motherboard or the CPU. My guess is, it's the gigabyte motherboard

I have been in this industry since 1987. I have seen 1 defective motherboard from Asus, but that was a re-furbish motherboard that only last 1+ yr.

For brand new motherboard, this is the very first one that fail. It could be the cilent has bad electricity behind the wall. Or it is just a bad motherboard that last just past the 3 yr. warranty. There is a first time for everything
 
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update:

shockingly, it's the motherboard.

I remove the memory, put in brand new memory, replace a different PSU, remove USB 3.0 port, remove DVD and SSD power plug, and it still won't boot

the motherboard is a B85M-D3H, the ultra durable series, only last 3.5 yr.

I so happen to have another PC w/ the very same motherboard and another CPU on it. So after replacing the motherboard w/ that other CPU, the whole thing works

the only thing I won't know is whether the failure is the motherboard or the CPU. My guess is, it's the gigabyte motherboard

I have been in this industry since 1987. I have seen 1 defective motherboard from Asus, but that was a re-furbish motherboard that only last 1+ yr.

For brand new motherboard, this is the very first one that fail. It could be the cilent has bad electricity behind the wall. Or it is just a bad motherboard that last just past the 3 yr. warranty. There is a first time for everything
I am not shocked. I am a bit late to this party but the description you gave made me think Motherboard all the way. That warmup issue you described is something I have seen on a number of computers. Most likely a failing VRM module and/or capacitance issue. Shit happens. I have seen this happen on systems that were newer, even brand new. You got me when you mentioned the CD ROM/DVD drive spinning up and then down again several times. Glad you isolated the issue!

If the CPU posts without issue in another MB, it's the MB. You are a lucky duck if that's all you have seen as far as failures (I just had an X570 ASUS board fail on me brand new out of a box this past month, My X470 Gigabyte Board cooked off it's VRMs and/or Caps this month, had a Gigabyte B450 fail on me last year, before that a Z97 ASROCK Formula). I have been in the IT industry since 1995-96 (Professionally) and I have seen enough failures that I have lost count on actual quantity. I'm talking failures from every brand I have been exposed to. Doesn't matter who makes the parts, flaws and defects find their way into everything. Take for example the reported 1-2% failure rate on Nvidia RTX cards that was upward of 20% in reality, I had two (fingers crossed) of three 2080Ti's fail on me. I'm not the only one that ran into issues either.
 

dvsman

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First question I always ask ... did you change anything at the time the problem began? Then backtrack from there.

But otherwise, I'd throw another vote to - check boot sequence or maybe SATA cables to see if DVD is on the same controller as the SSD.
 

Kardonxt

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I have been in this industry since 1987. I have seen 1 defective motherboard from Asus, but that was a re-furbish motherboard that only last 1+ yr.

For brand new motherboard, this is the very first one that fail. It could be the cilent has bad electricity behind the wall. Or it is just a bad motherboard that last just past the 3 yr. warranty. There is a first time for everything
I think you have just had abnormally good luck with motherboards. I see them fail on a regular basis. Heck if we build 10 PCs I can pretty much depend on one mobo being DOA. Once you make it past the first few months they seem to be solid for a few years.
 

ryan_975

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I think you have just had abnormally good luck with motherboards. I see them fail on a regular basis. Heck if we build 10 PCs I can pretty much depend on one mobo being DOA. Once you make it past the first few months they seem to be solid for a few years.
I dealt with several dead motherboards in my time, especially during 2004-2008. If you had one dead board in 20 years, you’re either extremely lucky or haven’t dealt with many boards.
 

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I am not shocked. I am a bit late to this party but the description you gave made me think Motherboard all the way. That warmup issue you described is something I have seen on a number of computers. Most likely a failing VRM module and/or capacitance issue. Shit happens. I have seen this happen on systems that were newer, even brand new. You got me when you mentioned the CD ROM/DVD drive spinning up and then down again several times. Glad you isolated the issue!

If the CPU posts without issue in another MB, it's the MB. You are a lucky duck if that's all you have seen as far as failures (I just had an X570 ASUS board fail on me brand new out of a box this past month, My X470 Gigabyte Board cooked off it's VRMs and/or Caps this month, had a Gigabyte B450 fail on me last year, before that a Z97 ASROCK Formula). I have been in the IT industry since 1995-96 (Professionally) and I have seen enough failures that I have lost count on actual quantity. I'm talking failures from every brand I have been exposed to. Doesn't matter who makes the parts, flaws and defects find their way into everything. Take for example the reported 1-2% failure rate on Nvidia RTX cards that was upward of 20% in reality, I had two (fingers crossed) of three 2080Ti's fail on me. I'm not the only one that ran into issues either.
But the Ultra Durable series is all solid state capacitors. None of htem are liquid capacitors. Not to mention they shouldn't fail at a 3.5 yr. time frame. It could be VRM modules

As to Asus, we have 2 surveys here at hardforum in a 10+ year time frame. Both survey shows Asus is the no. 1 (I started 1 of those survey).

ASRock is shit, I read the amazon review on their flagship motherboard : 24% failure w/i 6 mth.

But as to Gigabyte and Asus, I always thought they should be the best.

as to Ultra durable, I also start thsi other survey:

https://hardforum.com/threads/is-gi...es-motherboard-just-a-marketing-name.1922484/
 

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I think you have just had abnormally good luck with motherboards. I see them fail on a regular basis. Heck if we build 10 PCs I can pretty much depend on one mobo being DOA. Once you make it past the first few months they seem to be solid for a few years.
Jesus, what brand do you use?
 

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I dealt with several dead motherboards in my time, especially during 2004-2008. If you had one dead board in 20 years, you’re either extremely lucky or haven’t dealt with many boards.
I have seen a few Intel SSD failed, I have seen 1 Enermax Mid end PSU failed, back in the 1990s, there is 1 Compaq Desktop PC that arrived DOA, but that could be anything, it could be courier banging, it could be something loose inside, bad PSU, it's just totally dead.

But I only set up Gigabyte Ultra Durable, they are good, and it's not me saying it, scroll up to read the link on post no. 35.
 
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But the Ultra Durable series is all solid state capacitors. None of htem are liquid capacitors. Not to mention they shouldn't fail at a 3.5 yr. time frame. It could be VRM modules

As to Asus, we have 2 surveys here at hardforum in a 10+ year time frame. Both survey shows Asus is the no. 1 (I started 1 of those survey).

ASRock is shit, I read the amazon review on their flagship motherboard : 24% failure w/i 6 mth.

But as to Gigabyte and Asus, I always thought they should be the best.

as to Ultra durable, I also start thsi other survey:

https://hardforum.com/threads/is-gi...es-motherboard-just-a-marketing-name.1922484/
Doesn't matter if the caps are solid state or not. I have seen old school caps last longer than a decade. I have yet to see many solid state cap boards survive that long. ASROCK makes shit and sometimes they make good shit, just depends on the board. ASUS should be the best but they don't always have great QC. MSI likes to over validate BIOS updates (so you board doesn't brick, while many other vendors will release shit BIOS updates) and I would say their boards are wonderful but their latest batch of Ryzen boards in the X570 lineup looked like shit (unless you go ultra crazy 500-700 dollar high end even then I don't think they rated the best).

I like Gigabyte, I am running two boards in the Z370 flavor at the moment with no issues. Though my X470 Gigabyte cooked it's VRM (one or more) modules. Had another Gigabyte fail last year, an ASUS this year...

No board vendor is perfect, you can get a lemon in even the most well regarded motherboards that review almost perfect.
 

Denpepe

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Speaking of failures, this video was interesting and entertaining though not sure Asus would agree.

 

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Doesn't matter if the caps are solid state or not. I have seen old school caps last longer than a decade. I have yet to see many solid state cap boards survive that long. ASROCK makes shit and sometimes they make good shit, just depends on the board. ASUS should be the best but they don't always have great QC. MSI likes to over validate BIOS updates (so you board doesn't brick, while many other vendors will release shit BIOS updates) and I would say their boards are wonderful but their latest batch of Ryzen boards in the X570 lineup looked like shit (unless you go ultra crazy 500-700 dollar high end even then I don't think they rated the best).

I like Gigabyte, I am running two boards in the Z370 flavor at the moment with no issues. Though my X470 Gigabyte cooked it's VRM (one or more) modules. Had another Gigabyte fail last year, an ASUS this year...

No board vendor is perfect, you can get a lemon in even the most well regarded motherboards that review almost perfect.
How long did your X470 last? And how long is the other Gigabyte and Asus last?
 
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