id Software's Official DOOM3 Benchmarks

[d34dly]

I would hate to think how the X800's would perform in Doom 3 with MORE AI and Physics lol.

The AI is controlled by the CPU so the performance drop you get from added AI interaction is going to be primarily up to the CPU.

Time demo's are created by ACTUALLY playing the game and just recording the action. When you record it and play it back then its the exact same scene over and over again. The AI doesn't react differently and the results are more static. If you make two runs in-game with two different cards you dont have a chance in hell of getting the same results twice.

No I wasn't disputing just wondering. I just want to see the Time Demo. Did it include like 5 zombies falling down stairs? That might goop up the works...

 

[^eMpTy^]

Come on ... "best" is always a moving target. Everytime a new CPU comes out, "best" is going to change. Hell, haven't we all learned from the past that a simple driver update can change what is "best"? In fact, the card itself may be a great performer, but if the system is tuned poorly, that "best" might end up performing poorly.

And considering the fact that Doom 3 is reported to look the same on things even as low as a GeForce 4 MX, what exactly is "best" anyway? A couple extra FPS? Bah. I'm willing to call a spade a spade ... the 6800 series is outperforming the X800 series across the board. But please, don't start throwing subjective terms out there, because it's different for everyone. Stick with things that can be proven if you want to make a solid argument. Things like "performs better" and "costs less". Because if you want to say that something is the best, I'll just say that I like the way my X800 complements the colors of my case, and that makes it the best in ANY game.

You're absolutely correct, I did not sufficiently define the terms as used in my "argument".

Best means the fastest smoothest gameplay at the highest resolution with the most Anistropic Filtering and Full Screen Anti-Aliasing. In this case ATi will be incapable of providing the best (as defined here) experience due to thier poor OpenGL drivers.

I hope I have stated my point with enough clarity for you this time and I wish you the best of luck with your X800 (which does not "perform better" or "cost less" than a GT).

 

[heyyoem]

I know this is kind of off topic, but will there be any new line of cards before the
end of the year ?
And congrats to nVidia for making a great line of cards.

 

[^eMpTy^]

That is a rediculous statement to say that ATI will never be able to beat the 6800 in D3. If I read the article correctly wasn't the point of it to let people know that a wide range of systems can play the game just fine? I never once saw Kyle write that the whole point is to tell people which card to buy. He did say how the cards ranked but only because he knew that the readers wanted to see that.

The statement is an assumption, I'll give you that, but it is not a ridiculous one. And I have made no attempts to interpret the article to support my statement, but I think it backs up what I have to say.

If the GT can beat the XTPE in Doom3 right now, I seriously doubt, no matter how much driver re-writing ATi does, that they will be able to catch up. I think that's a pretty reasonable perspective given the evidence at hand.

 

[MrHappyGoLucky]

Was this event sponsored by Nvidia?

 

[^eMpTy^]

I know this is kind of off topic, but will there be any new line of cards before the
end of the year ?
And congrats to nVidia for making a great line of cards.

Nvidia is due for a refresh as is ATi, if we're lucky they'll make it in time for christmas assuming GDDR3 availability picks up.

Also there will be PCI express cards.

So the answer to your question is yes, not that I recommend waiting.

 

[^eMpTy^]

Was this event sponsored by Nvidia?

If it was I'm sure they wouldn't have been too shy to say so. There would be TWIMTBP posters all over the article.

 

[Dyslexic]

i just dont see the logic in buying a video card JUST for ONE game. After a while D3 will get old just like every other game. Yes, I pre-ordered too...but, it just seems like people place such a heavy emphasis on one game and how that determines their buying decision. I mean, for true hardcore gamers, what are you supposed to do? buy both cards so you can play HL2 and D3 ? and just switch cards when you want to play the other game?
It seems like people are more concerned about numbers, benchmarks, frames per second etc, than actually wondering if the game is going to be good at all or how much fun they're going to have playing it. (of course it'll be fun, right?)

I think that I will just play it an ENJOY it that way it is on the system I have without worrying about the guy next to me getting an additional 10 frames per second above me.

I can't wait for Aug 3rd....woo hoo!

The reason there is so much tek talk is because this is a tek forum. I go to planetDOOM to discuss game content. The reason so many people are influenced by DOOM3 benches is because the engine will be used in like 100 new games for like the next 3 years wich is more than just one game in my book. Being a hardcore gamer I try to buy the best hardware for the most games. Considering that both X800s and 6800s are close in most games, but the 6800s seem to have a big lead in OpenGL games that made my choice easy at last.

 

[MrHappyGoLucky]

If the GT can beat the XTPE in Doom3 right now, I seriously doubt, no matter how much driver re-writing ATi does, that they will be able to catch up. I think that's a pretty reasonable perspective given the evidence at hand.

I think you are right. ATI brought what they believed was the best driver for this test and failed miserably. The funny part is no one is realizing that even a 9800 Pro XT and 5900 will play this game great.

Hats off to id for making a game that is going to ship and looks like will live up to everyones expectation.

 

[oozish]

I know this is kind of off topic, but will there be any new line of cards before the
end of the year ?
And congrats to nVidia for making a great line of cards.

Given the scarcity of cards even now from the last 'Nvidia/Ati launch' (I won't go into caling this a paper launch...I won't!)....I wouldn't worry too much about the next gen for the next 6-12 months.

 

[^eMpTy^]

no, i don't have sources...I'm commenting based on all the basic knowledge and hearsay I've read about in countless forums. ATI has been in dire need of an opengl overhaul since I can remember, so those of you waiting for them to really kick it up a notch and present nvidia with a challenge in the opengl forum...I just wouldn't get your hopes up.

In regard to GT sales...I've seen 3 shipments come in @ frys...currenty frys has none. GT's are sold out all over the place online. So I'm basing my comment about the great sales in GT Land on personal experience and I could be wrong.

But I doubt it.

I've gotten the impression that ATi has finally said that they are in fact in the process of re-writing thier OpenGL driver, that's why I was wondering.

Personally, considering that they are still using the same basic core they created 2 years ago, I think if they could overhaul the driver, they would have done so by now.

 

[oozish]

I think you are right. ATI brought what they believed was the best driver for this test and failed miserably. The funny part is no one is realizing that even a 9800 Pro XT and 5900 will play this game great.

Hats off to id for making a game that is going to ship and looks like will live up to everyones expectation.

I agree with you there, id is a great company...JC is literally a genuis of our time...and they deserve a great success with this game. All of us should buy it!

 

[oozish]

Was this event sponsored by Nvidia?

Not unless they paid ATI's way..which I doubt.

 

[^eMpTy^]

Not unless they paid ATI's way..which I doubt.

They probably paid thier way just to see the look on thier faces.

 

[oozish]

They probably paid thier way just to see the look on thier faces.

LOL

 

[Dyslexic]

Both the ATI and the NVidia cards will run the game very well with the nod going to NVidia on this one. I really dont think I would return a X800pro if I already had one, but I am getting a 6800GT instead because it is the same price and preforms better. When the first benches came out showing the X800pro as the faster card I ordered one, and it never came. Now that the benches have changed I cancelled the X800pro order and I'm going with NVidia.

 

[pxc]

I'd like some elaboration on John Carmacks Overclocking Warning.

A note on overclocking: it is very likely that overclocked configurations that "play everything else perfectly" will start to show problems on D3 due to new usage patterns. Everyone is of course free to do whatever they want with their own hardware, but don't complain to us...

Talking to John briefly about his overclocking comments made some things clear to us that many enthusiasts will need to be aware of. When he speaks of "new usage patterns" he is literally talking about transistors on some of new GPUs that are going to be used for the first time when you play DOOM 3 on your video card. So be aware that pushing your GPU MHz may get you different results in DOOM 3 than with other games.

That's not much different from what happened with 3DMark03 and DX9 games. Some overclocks worked fine for old DX7/8.x games, but started showing artifacting in DX9 games/benchmarks. I had that exact same problem with a Radeon 9700 Pro I picked up a month ago... it was fine in non-DX9 games and benchmarks and went crazy in Far Cry and 3DMark03.

 

[DarkDonut]

Ah yes. I am extremely happy that I didn't upgrade now. My 9800 Pro will do perfectly fine 1024x768 HQ with 2xaa/8xaf enabled. And if it gets sluggish, I'll just turn off AA Can't wait till the 512MB ATi cards come out, with SM3.0 support and 20 piplines and all that goodness. SO glad I waited

 

[deb0]

Well, the benchies really speak for themselves. It appears that ATI's cheaper approach to card design is beginning to boomerang on them. I wonder how these cards will perform as future systems are less cpu bound?

Doom3 is a major victory for Nvidia. And who cares about video performance of HL2. It comes out much later with graphics already clearly inferior to Doom3. I suspect ATI will have a better showing with HL2. If they don't, that will be BAD news for ATI.

Well, I guess we all know now 'How it's meant to be played'.

13 Days until the Invasion.

 

[BlackDragon323]

Considering that both X800s and 6800s are close in most games, but the 6800s seem to have a big lead in OpenGL games that made my choice easy at last.

but what about all those benches Hard did on Farcry and clearly showed the ATI lead?? And also in other games (UT2k4,etc)...what about that?

**good god, the pages to this thread are increasing AS I read each post!!**

 

[Nekoashide]

Meby it is bad opgengl drivers that's holding ati back but i think something may have been going on behind the scenes with reguards to Nvidia and Doom 3. Not that i'm saying anything was optimized but that driver development may have been influenced by the leaked alpha or a beta from Id.

 

[^eMpTy^]

but what about all those benches Hard did on Farcry and clearly showed the ATI lead?? And also in other games (UT2k4,etc)...what about that?

**good god, the pages to this thread are increasing AS I read each post!!**

They show the XTPE ahead of the Ultra by a bit in uber high AA/AF...the GT on the other hand, owns the Pro, no matter what settings you use.

 

[BoogerBomb]

Why bother seeing benchmarks from any other review site? I think all other review sites should not do any D3 benchmarking because everybody has already made up their mind off benchmarks made on 2 systems that maybe a half percent of the country has. Oh I forgot the system the card is in has no affect on game performance.

 

[^eMpTy^]

Meby it is bad opgengl drivers that's holding ati back but i think something may have been going on behind the scenes with reguards to Nvidia and Doom 3. Not that i'm saying anything was optimized but that driver development may have been influenced by the leaked alpha or a beta from Id.

What went on was Nvidia built the NV40 to run Doom3. And ATi, knowing they would lose that one, jumped on the Half-Life 2 boat but then that went to shit so now they are kinda left hanging with nothing to directly counter thier inferior Doom3 performance.

 

[Dyslexic]

Ah yes. I am extremely happy that I didn't upgrade now. My 9800 Pro will do perfectly fine 1024x768 HQ with 2xaa/8xaf enabled. And if it gets sluggish, I'll just turn off AA Can't wait till the 512MB ATi cards come out, with SM3.0 support and 20 piplines and all that goodness. SO glad I waited

No matter how long you wait there will always be something awsome around the corner, so I have decided to get a new GPU every other time a new line comes out. It has worked for me for a while. Except last time I had to rplace my 9700pro with a 9800pro cause it fried. Luckily it was on sale for $229 at the time.

 

[^eMpTy^]

Why bother seeing benchmarks from any other review site? I think all other review sites should not do any D3 benchmarking because everybody has already made up their mind off benchmarks made on 2 systems that maybe a half percent of the country has. Oh I forgot the system the card is in has no affect on game performance.

I'm going to take a wild guess that you own an X800 Pro.

 

[AMD T-type]

well i guess i know what card i'm getting next

x800 here i come

 

[oozish]

Meby it is bad opgengl drivers that's holding ati back but i think something may have been going on behind the scenes with reguards to Nvidia and Doom 3. Not that i'm saying anything was optimized but that driver development may have been influenced by the leaked alpha or a beta from Id.

ok, here we go with the ATI conspiracy theorists....keep digging.

 

[Hedge_]

Thanks Kyle and JC for getting us the benchmark article, you guys rock! JC is a genius no doubt, i'm sure he has it running really nice as usual. Now lets see how that 1.5 with the gf4 did please.

 

[deb0]

Yeah, good point. When it comes to the latest "beautiful engines", it's an awesome battle. ATI wins here, Nvidia wins there. I guess when it comes down to it, most of us will put alot of weight on what games we play. FarCry is simply beautiful, and I am very pleased with Nvidia's driver optimizations to improve performance and features for this game.

When it comes down to it, the kind of folk that frequent these boards will get what works best for them, and this neck and neck competition between ATI and Nvidia will only benefit US!

 

[BlackDragon323]

ok now I'm lost. I want to play D3 and maybe I should get nvidia. BUT, I love UT2k4 and Hard's comparison on high end cards showed that nvidia didn't look as good as ATI's high end.
HELP!

 

[oozish]

Why bother seeing benchmarks from any other review site? I think all other review sites should not do any D3 benchmarking because everybody has already made up their mind off benchmarks made on 2 systems that maybe a half percent of the country has. Oh I forgot the system the card is in has no affect on game performance.

Maybe it's just my imagination but they didn't just use 2 systems to bench the game/cards. Why don't you read the whole article?

 

[PureBooYah]

well i guess i know what card i'm getting next

x800 here i come

oh yeah definitely, thank god i just got my x800pro all setup...

doom3 here i come


edit: to all the guys that will laugh at me...the card was bought for me and i didn't pay a dime so meh

 

[maxxo]

Ah yes. I am extremely happy that I didn't upgrade now. My 9800 Pro will do perfectly fine 1024x768 HQ with 2xaa/8xaf enabled. And if it gets sluggish, I'll just turn off AA Can't wait till the 512MB ATi cards come out, with SM3.0 support and 20 piplines and all that goodness. SO glad I waited

glad that you waited? i think the waiting has just begun lol

 

[^eMpTy^]

ok now I'm lost. I want to play D3 and maybe I should get nvidia. BUT, I love UT2k4 and Hard's comparison on high end cards showed that nvidia didn't look as good as ATI's high end.
HELP!

Well right now Ultra's and XTPE's are pretty much unattainable without a bunch of waiting or an huge price tag. So it's between the Pro and the GT...and if you look at the benchmarks, I'm pretty sure the GT does very well in comparison to the Pro in all games.

 

[Dyslexic]

but what about all those benches Hard did on Farcry and clearly showed the ATI lead?? And also in other games (UT2k4,etc)...what about that?

**good god, the pages to this thread are increasing AS I read each post!!**

I said they where close in most games and they are. ATI has a small lead in FarCry and UT2003 with AA and AF but just a little. In the latest Hard review of the BFG6800GT OC they are really close.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjM3

OOPS sory no UT2004 in that review.

 

[GuruX]

Now here's an interesting question.

If we're already seeing below 60fps with anything other than the 6800/x800 cards, that means the 1.5GHz / GF4MX combo will probably deliver at most 30fps in low detail mode. Is HardOCP implying that the magic 60fps barrier isn't as much of an issue in DOOM 3 as it is for a game like UT2004?

I fully understand that DOOM 3 is certainly not going to be a fast-paced game, but is 30fps really enough to still enjoy the gaming experience? (albeit at a basic level)

 

[BoogerBomb]

Maybe it's just my imagination but they didn't just use 2 systems to bench the game/cards. Why don't you read the whole article?

We want to start out with our high end system that was supplied by Dell. It utilized a 3.6GHz Pentium 4 processor and 4GB of 533MHz DDR2 Ram on an Intel i925X motherboard. The video cards used of course were all PCI-Express interface video cards all with 256MB of video Ram. NVIDIA's v61.76 driver and ATI's v8.05 driver was used for testing.


While this test system certainly still qualifies for high end, it is a bit more comparable to systems that many of you own today. This Dell machine featured an Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz processor and 2GB of DDR400 Ram all on an i875 motherboard. Of course since this is an i875 system, all of our cards will use an AGP8X interface. This time we have the Radeon X800Pro to add to the mix as well. NVIDIA’s v61.76 and ATI’s v8.05 drivers were again used.


EDIT:
This time we look at some more recent hardware that has been on the market for a while, the GeForceFX 5950 and Radeon 9800XT.

Ok I see the second system with different cards that some may see as a third different system but I see it as the same system with different cards.


Those are the 2 systems mentioned in the article that were used for benchmarking purposes. Did you not read the article?

 

[evilchris]

so much for my X800 Pro... hopefully ATI will get their OGL re-write done soon.

Don't be confident that their shiny new driver will be worth a damn.

 

[Nekoashide]

ok, here we go with the ATI conspiracy theorists....keep digging.

Conspiracy nothing, Everyone had access to a nearly completed engine in the alpha. I still believe ati leaked it and carmack wanted to punish ati in some way. Sales of ati cards will be lower until ati can come up with drivers that work better.