I know why ATI R520 is delayed

Rambus says that the XDR2 memory interface is open to licence now and expects products based on the technology to ship by 2007
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So the r520 isnt coming out till 2007? :)
 
Actually no its not the reason if you read the entire article you will see that the rambus ram will not be available til 2007
 
I will never own a Rambus based product. PS2 or anything else that uses it. I despise that company.
 
MiXdNuTs said:
I will never own a Rambus based product. PS2 or anything else that uses it. I despise that company.
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While I agree that rambus, inc can suck the big one.. Exluding yourself from products that use it will ... seriously limit .. your purchases. You would deprive yourself of playstation 3 just because of the shady business practices of one of the companies that provide a small part of the system? I'm sure if you delve into xbox360, you'll find a reason not to buy it, either. IBM can be shady at times.
 
Malogato said:
While I agree that rambus, inc can suck the big one.. Exluding yourself from products that use it will ... seriously limit .. your purchases. You would deprive yourself of playstation 3 just because of the shady business practices of one of the companies that provide a small part of the system? I'm sure if you delve into xbox360, you'll find a reason not to buy it, either. IBM can be shady at times.
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I don't like consoles in general. Anyways, graphics cards will never use rambus memory because despite high frequencies, RDRAM has insanely high latencies which makes it horrible for use in a graphics card. This was quoted from an ATI interview way back when PC-1066 RDRAM was still around. PS and similar optimized closed systems can better use it though. I make all of my hardware purchases political because I can. Ultimately all companies will have to bow down to my consumer dollar and they know this. Thats why you have seen motherboards like DFI LanParty that are just insane in appearance but meet a demand. There was no demand for RDRAM so it failed. I was a participant in RDRAM's failure by not extending my dollar :)
 
Actually, memory latencies don't matter at all for videocards, since they're pipelined processors, with fixed positions where memory can be read or written. The pipeline can be designed to hide any latencies.
GDDR is also a high-latency memory.
In fact, Rambus would be the perfect memory, since it offers the one thing that does matter to videocards: bandwidth.

And despite the negative attitude towards Rambus, it was the platform to beat for a long time, on the P4. Not until we saw dual DDR at high speeds, did DDR finally catch up with the raw performance offered by the Rambus systems, which by then were running on outdated chipsets, and memory that was no longer being actively developed.
 
Scali said:
Actually, memory latencies don't matter at all for videocards, since they're pipelined processors, with fixed positions where memory can be read or written. The pipeline can be designed to hide any latencies.
GDDR is also a high-latency memory.
In fact, Rambus would be the perfect memory, since it offers the one thing that does matter to videocards: bandwidth.

And despite the negative attitude towards Rambus, it was the platform to beat for a long time, on the P4. Not until we saw dual DDR at high speeds, did DDR finally catch up with the raw performance offered by the Rambus systems, which by then were running on outdated chipsets, and memory that was no longer being actively developed.
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Makes sense to me. And 8GHz is 8GHz!! I don't care if it has 2x more latency than GDDR3, having ~5x more bandwidth would be like a gush of refreshing spring water to bandwidth hungry video cards.
Projection: when we're using 8GHz RDRAM in our video cards, AGP definitely won't be able to hang any more!;)
 
jebo_4jc said:
[..]having ~5x more bandwidth would be like a gush of refreshing spring water to bandwidth hungry video cards. [..]
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Actually, I think that that would just short them out :D

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050707-5067.html

More than the raw bandwidth offered, I find the microthreading and the following features fascinating:
Hannibal said:
Adaptive Timing

One of the more controversial aspects of the original RDRAM when it first appeared was the fact that different RIMMs could be at different distances from the CPU. At boot-time, the memory subsystem would go through a special initialization sequence that matched the varied latencies of the channels to the latency of the slowest channel. That way, the CPU would always see the same latency for every bank of DRAM, regardless of its physical distance from the processor socket.

XDR2 takes this general idea and applies it to individual trace lengths. One of the hard parts of manufacturing a memory bus is in getting all of the wires (or "traces") to be the exact same length, so that each wire has the same delay time. XDR2's adaptive timing circuitry gives motherboard makers a bit more margin for error in this regard, because it uses a special initialization sequence to sort out the delays of all the traces and to artificially match those delays to the delay of the longest trace. So adaptive timing can lower manufacturing costs by moving some of the complexity of dealing with mismatched trace lengths onto the memory die, where Moore's Curves make it cheaper.

Transmit Equalization

Mismatched trace lengths aren't the only problem that can drive up the cost of a board. The noise and filter effects associated with high-frequency bus operation inevitably distorts the signal that the bus carries, with the degree of distortion being more or less dependent on how much the board maker is willing to invest in keeping the bus clean and quiet.

XDR2's transmit equalization circuitry "pre-distorts" the memory bus signal in such a way that by the time the signal arrives at its destination the bus's filter effects have brought the signal into its proper shape.
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Methinks we might see XDR2 or a derivative appear on videocards within a few years.
 
Scali said:
And despite the negative attitude towards Rambus, it was the platform to beat for a long time, on the P4. Not until we saw dual DDR at high speeds, did DDR finally catch up with the raw performance offered by the Rambus systems, which by then were running on outdated chipsets, and memory that was no longer being actively developed.
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Given the price and Intel's and Rambus' bullish tactics, good riddance.
 
MiXdNuTs said:
I don't like consoles in general. Anyways, graphics cards will never use rambus memory because despite high frequencies, RDRAM has insanely high latencies which makes it horrible for use in a graphics card. This was quoted from an ATI interview way back when PC-1066 RDRAM was still around. PS and similar optimized closed systems can better use it though. I make all of my hardware purchases political because I can. Ultimately all companies will have to bow down to my consumer dollar and they know this. Thats why you have seen motherboards like DFI LanParty that are just insane in appearance but meet a demand. There was no demand for RDRAM so it failed. I was a participant in RDRAM's failure by not extending my dollar :)
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Lol... video card ram is already pretty high latency, probably be harder to keep both that tight and throw it on a 256-bit memory interface... you sure you know what you're talking about? I know what my money is on. :p
 
jebo_4jc said:
Projection: when we're using 8GHz RDRAM in our video cards, AGP definitely won't be able to hang any more!;)
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Depends on how much memory we'll get :)
If you have enough memory to avoid AGP texturing altogether, then the AGP bus will only be used for sending commands to the videocard. If this is done in an efficient manner, AGP could still last for years :)
 
Probably because they attended standards conferences and somehow managed to get patents on some of the stuff from the conference? That's what I think of, it was a few years ago.
 
too bad theres no cpu that could utilize that kind of power

sigh... the unbalanced market of pc parts
 
slamgoku said:
Slamgoku - Anyone annoyed by my Dynamic Signature yet?
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yep. i actually have terra ignored becuase i find it annoying.

anyway - im all for it if itll improve graphcs card performance, 8ghz ram is 8ghz ram after all, and sounds pretty sweet to me.
 
lithium726 said:
yep. i actually have terra ignored becuase i find it annoying.

anyway - im all for it if itll improve graphcs card performance, 8ghz ram is 8ghz ram after all, and sounds pretty sweet to me.
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Ram running faster than your cpu is just sexy.
 
lithium726 said:
yep. i actually have terra ignored becuase i find it annoying.
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Just turn off signatures somewhere in User CP. Makes for much cleaner reading.
 
Araanor said:
Just turn off signatures somewhere in User CP. Makes for much cleaner reading.
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its actually just him faking a signature like this

Slamgoku - See this is not a true signature. Its a dynamic signature. lmfao.
 
Their XDR tech has been around for years, only now does the PS2 start to use it. This XDR2 won't be used for another 6 years at least (anywhere).
 
lithium726 said:
yep. i actually have terra ignored becuase i find it annoying.
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*LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL*

Terra - Some arguments are just to funny ;) *LOL*
 
Modules Type Voltage VDD,VDDQ Frequency Range Read Latency
128M bit GDDR1 2.5V, 2.5V 183-500 (800)MHz* 3,4,5
256M bit GDDR1 2.5V, 2.5V 183-500 (800)MHz* 3,4,5
256M bit GDDR2 2.5V, 1.8V 400-500MHz 5,6,7
256M bit GDDR3 1.8V, 1.8V 500-800MHz 5,6,7,8,9
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seems like they keep making up for the latency issue with mhz:)

sounds like XDR2 will rock!!
 
MiXdNuTs said:
I will never own a Rambus based product. PS2 or anything else that uses it. I despise that company.
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Rambus or not, if the price is good and the performance is great, who cares :rolleyes: But I don't like tactics like in the time Intel and Rambus forced the industry to adopt Rambus even despite performance was not as good as PC2100 and was way too much expensive.

Para
 
Parabellum said:
to adopt Rambus even despite performance was not as good as PC2100 and was way too much expensive.
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Not true!
My RDRAM(PC800) delivers 3.2GB/s of transferrrate...
PC2100 tranfers 2.1GB/s
When I got my P4A 2.GHz RDRAM(PC800) was the ONLY ram(alternative was PC2100 at that time) that could match the FSB transfer of 3.2GB/s of data that the P4A delivered...

Terra - Stop spreding FUD please :)
 
Anything thing that can help the videocard markets run and jump by bounds instead of skips is good in my books!
 
Malogato said:
While I agree that rambus, inc can suck the big one.. Exluding yourself from products that use it will ... seriously limit .. your purchases. You would deprive yourself of playstation 3 just because of the shady business practices of one of the companies that provide a small part of the system? I'm sure if you delve into xbox360, you'll find a reason not to buy it, either. IBM can be shady at times.
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Uhh...Microsoft? That's about as shady as you can get.
 
Ummm can any one tell me why Intel told RAMBUS to take a hike.... THEY CAN"T PUT OUT THE PRODUCT!!!! I'll believe them being able to get enough of this magical memory when I see it in a full line of graphics cards not just a 'Look what MIGHT come out in 2007'

ATi loves to delay releasing things. But they are not going to put off putting out the R520 or later the R580 because they want to wait for money that is going to never hit the market in amounts able to be affordable for card markers unless they hike the price of $600 even higher.

Just my two cents.
 
CompMage said:
Ummm can any one tell me why Intel told RAMBUS to take a hike....
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Easy :)
A LOT of negative hype was created even though RDRAM at the time was the fastest RAM availble...hte price was high..but so was the preformnace compared to DDR t the time...

Terracide - I had no problem buying RDRAM..and I can still by more if I want too? :)
 
Projection: when we're using 8GHz RDRAM in our video cards, AGP definitely won't be able to hang any more!
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if AGP is dead, so is SLI and crossfire <_<

hahah waht a very funny joke... :(

poor ATi cant get there product out... while nvidia made a great lauch... boy am i glad i picked nVidia on my current build
 
0mega said:
if AGP is dead, so is SLI and crossfire <_<

hahah waht a very funny joke... :(

poor ATi cant get there product out... while nvidia made a great lauch... boy am i glad i picked nVidia on my current build
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QFT
 
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