I got this mesg. from Arctic Tech. support

Happy Hopping

Happy Hopping

[H]F Junkie
2FA
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
8,527
ON the Arctic Xtreme 3, it has a list of support VIdeo card, and the cooler supports up to GTX 780.

So I ask if they support GTX 650 Ti Boost, as it is not on their support list, I got this:

Accelero Xtreme III supports factory reference layout GTX 650 Ti. Please check to see if your Asus GTX 650 Ti is free from any OEM modification.

We hope this answers your question. Thank you for choosing ARCTIC products!
Click to expand...

is this 1 of these official statement or what does this mean exactly? Does that mean they can support card as high at Titan, but not 650 Ti Boost? The other thing is, isn't all cards from all manufacturer OEM?
 
Happy Hopping said:
is this 1 of these official statement or what does this mean exactly? Does that mean they can support card as high at Titan, but not 650 Ti Boost? The other thing is, isn't all cards from all manufacturer OEM?
Click to expand...

It means the cooler was tested for and successfully fit on a GTX 650 Ti using the Nvidia reference board for that card. OEM means "anyone other than NVidia" in this case, which is to say: If the card you're talking about is not using a reference PCB, then you're on your own.

Considering your 650 Ti Boost may use a 660 reference board since it is basically a "660 lite" and the Arctic Extreme III lists the 660 as a compatible card, you're probably fine. However, again, if you have a 650 Ti Boost with a custom PCB, you're on your own to try it.
 
To answer the last question which answers your other questions, no. Not all are OEM. OEM means made by nVidia or AMD, and will have an AMD or nVidia logo stamped right above the PCI-E slot. Asus, MSI, Gigabyte and all the rest will tend to sell non-OEM designs with the intention of either 1. reducing cost of components, or 2. increasing overclock capabilities (more/better phases, etc). Non-reference designs tend to have different layouts and possibly different mounting holes.

In the case of reference designs, the entire board (chip, RAM, mosfets, etc) is bought from nVidia/AMD. In the case of non-reference designs, manufacturers buy the chip only from AMD/nVidia, and put their own parts on their own PCB.

The easy way to tell is if there is the logo or not. If there is the logo, then it is reference (at least the PCB is reference). If there is no logo, it is non-reference, and may or may not work with the Arctic Xtreme 3.
 
alright thank you, I didn't know about that. I always thought Asus and Gigabyte, and other just re-brand their logo and the card is still OEM.

So, say I want the Asus GTX 650 Ti Boost, GTX650TiB-DC2-2GD5, how do I know what the pin holes are, and whether it matches the arctic xtreme 3?
 
Like I said, look at the PCB and see if it has the nVidia logo right above the PCI-E connector. That tells you if its reference or not.

Otherwise, the only way is to look online and see if you can find dimensions, which would probably be fairly difficult.
 
Do you have the arctic or the card already? Its not like the 650ti is a hot running card, it will most likely be pretty quiet by itself. I couldn't see spending $70-90 on a cooler for a $125 card.
 
Not yet, and that's my plan. But I am not hopeful:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/picture/?sr...orce-gtx-650-ti-boost-roundup/zdnoise-xbt.png

picture
 
If you're willing to spend that money why not just buy a GTX 760 windforce 3 card or something? Way more performance with similar temps and acoustics to that expensive cooler.
 
Tsumi said:
You do realize that was taken from 150mm from the fan, in an open environment, and just tested fan speeds only, right? That in no way indicates what speed the fan runs at under what loads, and what you hear sitting 1000+ mm with the card inside a case.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right!

Their normal individual review articles are far more "realistic" when it comes to noise testing:

100 cm (approx 3 feet) away from a case with one panel open.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_650_Ti_Boost_TF_Gaming/25.html

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_650_Ti_Boost_Direct_Cu_II/25.html

As you can see, the legendary MSI Twin Frozer and The Asus DirectCU II both offer quiet performance for reasonable prices. But due to the recent spate of support issues from Asus, I would recommend the MSI card.
 
Last edited:
What's the "recent spate of support issues from asus"? I didn't heard that one. Is there a link?
 
Happy Hopping said:
What's the "recent spate of support issues from asus"? I didn't heard that one. Is there a link?
Click to expand...

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1764403&highlight=asus+customer+service

They left the guy hanging 3 months just because their faulty card just happened to burn to a crisp. He had to constantly keep badgering them to get them to act at all, and even then he's lucky they processed the RMA. To sum up his experience:

There's a whole slew of stuff they can deny you for apparently
Click to expand...

Also, this one is even more recent, regarding warranty service for their high-end sound cards:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1783922

Asus is not HORRIBLE, but they're not the shining leader they once were. You should take that into consideration when you make your purchase, but it shouldn't stop you if you have your mind made up. Most Asus products are still high-quality, but just hope you don't have to roll the dice with their support :D
 
LigTasm said:
If you're willing to spend that money why not just buy a GTX 760 windforce 3 card or something? Way more performance with similar temps and acoustics to that expensive cooler.
Click to expand...

I never thought of that. But let me ask you this: If the stock fan of the GTX 760 is that quiet, why would Arctic Xtreme III support GTX 760?

and here's my guess:

The Gigabyte GTX 760 has 3 pipes:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GeForce_GTX_760_WindForce_OC/5.html

The Arctic cooling has 10 pipes:

http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/vga/554/accelero-xtreme-iii.html?c=2182

so it's quite obvious that the Arctic Xtreme 3 can dissipate heat a lot faster and w/ those 3 fans getting the heat off better and faster than a cooling sys. w/ 3 pipe.

And the Arctic cooling shows their dB level is very low

http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/vga/5 ... tml?c=2182

Arctic said its GTX 680 at 47.6 deg. C at 2000 rpm w/ comparison the stock cooler at 69.9 deg. C

then comes the noise level. This Arctic cooler is at 0.5 sone or 29.43dB
 
Last edited:
Happy Hopping said:
I never thought of that. But let me ask you this: If the stock fan of the GTX 760 is that quiet, why would Arctic Xtreme III support GTX 760?

I thought who's going to buy Arctic Xtreme III when the stock fan works just as good?
Click to expand...

Because most mounting is actually standard. I believe AMD has kept the same mounting dimensions for most of their cards the same for the past 3-4 generations, same with nVidia, so it costs them almost nothing to say "Hey, by the way, we support this too."

Besides, people are stupid. Anyone can be tricked into thinking something is better when its really not. That's the nature of marketing, to try to convince people they need something when they really don't.
 
defaultluser said:
Absolutely right!

Their normal individual review articles are far more "realistic" when it comes to noise testing:

100 cm (approx 3 feet) away from a case with one panel open.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_650_Ti_Boost_TF_Gaming/25.html

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_650_Ti_Boost_Direct_Cu_II/25.html

As you can see, the legendary MSI Twin Frozer and The Asus DirectCU II both offer quiet performance for reasonable prices. But due to the recent spate of support issues from Asus, I would recommend the MSI card.
Click to expand...

I am curious as to the accuracy of their own test:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_650_Ti_Boost_TF_Gaming/25.html

on the right, you can see it says GTX 650 Ti Boost TF Gaming at 27 dBA, under fan noise: Load

Now, on this review

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GeForce_GTX_760_WindForce_OC/26.html

on the right, you can see it says GTX 650 Ti Boost at 37 dBA, under fan noise: Load

Which is right then? How can 2 of their tests have 2 different results?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GeForce_GTX_760_WindForce_OC/26.html
 
Tsumi said:
Besides, people are stupid. Anyone can be tricked into thinking something is better when its really not. That's the nature of marketing, to try to convince people they need something when they really don't.
Click to expand...

but we are talking about 10 pipes vs. 3
 
Happy Hopping said:
I am curious as to the accuracy of their own test:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_650_Ti_Boost_TF_Gaming/25.html

on the right, you can see it says GTX 650 Ti Boost TF Gaming at 27 dBA, under fan noise: Load

Now, on this review

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GeForce_GTX_760_WindForce_OC/26.html

on the right, you can see it says GTX 650 Ti Boost at 37 dBA, under fan noise: Load

Which is right then? How can 2 of their tests have 2 different results?
Click to expand...

THEY ARE BOTH CORRECT

The 27dbA is the custom cooler that comes from MSI.

The 37dbA result is the STOCK COOLER provided in the Nvidia REFERENCE design.

To make the review graphs easier to read, they don't compare multiple CUSTOM COOLERS to each other (that would make the graph way too busy)...they simply compare the custom cooler to the stock cooler, and from there you can compare any other review they have done.

If you take a look at the review graph, there is only ONE branded/custom cooler named inside that entire graph. All the other GPU names are GENERIC, indicating they are the STOCK/REFERENCE design.

So you can clearly see in the review of the MSI TF, both the custom and stock noise levels are clearly highlighted in order to make it clear just how much better the MSI TF cooler is! And the rest of the stock coolers for other GPUs are there to give you a better reference point to how noisy it is in relation to other cards.

tWHt2Nc.gif


If you want to compare two different custom coolers, you'll have to compare their two separate reviews. That's why I provided both links for the Asus and MSI cards :D
 
Last edited:
fannoise_load.gif


Look closer, see the above chart. Look at the 1 below the blue bar. It says GTX 650 Ti Boost 2048M: 37 dBA

Don't tell me MSI can make their video card 10 dB less than a ref. card. There can't be such a big difference. Not unless "someone" pay the above to write a good review
 
Yes, there can be. Different fan profile as well as different heatsink design can make significant differences.

Also, all you have to do is just LOOK at the different designs to see how much of a difference there is. The reference design is a single blower fan style. The MSI design is two fans blowing down on a large heatsink.

Also, number of heatpipes doesn't mean anything. There's also design of the base, design of the fins, and even the fans chosen, as well as the fan speed profile.
 
As tsumi stated quite clearly, YES you absolutely can expect to see that much improvement. The stock cooler uses a squirrel cage fan that pushes air along a long heatsink. There is NO HEATPIPE in the stock design so to keep temperatures in check the fan has to spin faster.

See here where they disassemble the cooler:

http://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_650_Ti_Boost/3.html

Another thing you notice from the second page of that review is they note the cooler is exactly the same as that of the gtx 660/670. So in order to cut costs they reused an existing but over-specced cooler, which is yet another reason for all the noise (notice all three card have similarly bad acoustics)!

Nvidia designed these reference coolers for cost and cooling capacity first. They leave room for OEMs to do better. And really why should they bother anymore when they design amazing stock coolers like the GTX 460 and 560 and hardly any card makers actually used them?

Also stop getting excited over how many heatpipes your cooler has. Beyond a minimum amount to move the amount of heat your card produces, the rest are overkill. The heatsink attached to the end of the heatpipes and the fan moving the air both have FAR more impact on sound and cooling effectiveness.
 
Last edited:
so, just to compare apple to apple, I read 5 review on the Asus ver. of this card, 1 review is the regular clock ver., the other 4 review is the OC ver.:

http://www.bjorn3d.com/2013/05/asus-gtx-650-ti-boost-dcii/4/

http://hardocp.com/article/2013/07/...ti_boost_directcu_ii_oc_review/9#.UlpyzGfEeDt

In the above 2 review, all it says about noise is that the card is quite under load

http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=993&page=19

this is the 3rd review, quite useless from some chinese website

http://www.eteknix.com/asus-geforce-gtx-650-ti-boost-oc-edition-2gb-graphics-card/11/

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_650_Ti_Boost_Direct_Cu_II/25.html

and in the last 2 link, there is a discrepancy on the dB level.

The 1st 1 said 42 dB to 49 dB on series 1 & 2, can't fig. out what series 1 & 2 is

The 2nd link is you people's favorite tech power, and we get 25 dB idle w/ 31 dB under load, so it's higher than MSI

My problem is, I always thought MSI is a micky mouse inferior co. than Asus. I bought Asus motherboard, and among all the taiwanese vendor, they are the only 1 who makes 1 to 2 dual CPU workstation class motherboard. So they invested more $ in R&D vs. other co. The truth is, in the past 20+ yr. of using PC, never own 1 product from MSI
 
Then you're seriously way out of date.

MSI Lightning and Twin Frozr cards have been a favorite of many people for the past 3-4 generations, and are considered one of the best overclocking cards you can buy.

On the motherboard side, they have been making improvements, and can hold their own against Asus and Gigabyte.

Also, you can't judge a company based on the products they make. A lot of your reasoning just seems so absurd at times.
 
It's not just another product, as unique product = R&D. Take gigabyte and MSI, they don't have the $ to invest in dual CPU workstation motherboard, as they are smaller in size. In fact, Asus make more motherboard than the other 2.

Also, I hate Over clock, look at page 1, the video card I want is a stock clock ver. of Asus. And the reason I didn't pick Gigabyte is because they only have the over clock ver.
 
Happy Hopping said:
so, just to compare apple to apple, I read 5 review on the Asus ver. of this card, 1 review is the regular clock ver., the other 4 review is the OC ver.:

http://www.bjorn3d.com/2013/05/asus-gtx-650-ti-boost-dcii/4/

http://hardocp.com/article/2013/07/...ti_boost_directcu_ii_oc_review/9#.UlpyzGfEeDt

In the above 2 review, all it says about noise is that the card is quite under load

http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=993&page=19

this is the 3rd review, quite useless from some chinese website

http://www.eteknix.com/asus-geforce-gtx-650-ti-boost-oc-edition-2gb-graphics-card/11/
Click to expand...

The Chinese website is actually USEFUL, but not relevant to you. They test the fan speeds at fixed loads of 30, 60 and 100%. This is simply to show that at equivalent speeds the Asus card is much quieter. But for your purposes this review is useless, because it doesn't actually show the speed of the fan when gaming.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_650_Ti_Boost_Direct_Cu_II/25.html

and in the last 2 link, there is a discrepancy on the dB level.

The 1st 1 said 42 dB to 49 dB on series 1 & 2, can't fig. out what series 1 & 2 is
Click to expand...

I wouldn't trust a website what doesn't list it's test methodology. They don't even provide the ambient noise level of the room, so these results are worthless.

The 2nd link is you people's favorite tech power, and we get 25 dB idle w/ 31 dB under load, so it's higher than MSI

My problem is, I always thought MSI is a micky mouse inferior co. than Asus. I bought Asus motherboard, and among all the taiwanese vendor, they are the only 1 who makes 1 to 2 dual CPU workstation class motherboard. So they invested more $ in R&D vs. other co. The truth is, in the past 20+ yr. of using PC, never own 1 product from MSI
Click to expand...


I'm not going to sit here and convince you to purchase MSI. I will say that Asus has a far-from-perfect reputation in the enthusiast space, requiring many revisions of their BIOS and several months sometimes to stamp-out major compatibility issues. Their larger product catalog means they are spread thinner, and this has become even worse with their move into laptops and tablets (last 4 years).

For example, the ASUS P8P67 Series

Random lockups:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1577853

Double post at cold boot:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1578675

Memory issues failing POST:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1581215

This is not what you would expect from a premium board maker, but it's the way things are now.
 
Better overclocking capabilities = higher quality components used. That's all I'll say about that.
 
defaultluser said:
I'm not going to sit here and convince you to purchase MSI. I will say that Asus has a far-from-perfect reputation in the enthusiast space, requiring many revisions of their BIOS and several months sometimes to stamp-out major compatibility issues. Their larger product catalog means they are spread thinner, and this has become even worse with their move into laptops and tablets (last 4 years).
.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right on their laptop, especially their so-called "docking station", there is almost no R&D in it, they rely on a USB port to dock. High end laptop like the HP professional mobile station has their own docking interface, much faster than a USB port.

As to these links you post, every brand requires easily several mth. to 9 mth. or more to sort out all the bugs. Way back a few yr. ago, my HP XW9300 is a $9K machine, on HP utility site, they said "for machine using hard drive 500GB or higher, you must download this utility". As soon as I download it, Win 7 crash. Once I un-install that "must have utility", everything works. And HP at the time, was a $85B co. So there are definitely firmware bugs.

Regardless, you are verse in the story of coke vs. pepsi taste test commercial. They can keep saying coke doesn't taste good, that doesn't mean pepsi taste good. The 2 events are mutually exclusive.

In other words, even if asus is not good, there is still Gigabyte other than MSI. On my end, I have been in this industry for 20+ yr., never own 1 MSI product. So I have no record of this co., there is no distributor or wholesaler that talks about them, so comparing apple to apple, what do I gain from a MSI video card vs. a Asus video card?

Forget bad customer service, every co. has those stories, every asus story you post, do a search under "poor service MSI", you can get the same no. on MSI, for e.g:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/msi/545120-poor-service-msi.html

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=137005.0

here's 1 that your favorite MSI caught fire

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1559489

So what I care about is: What's the big difference btwn. these 2 brand on this video card in terms of quality? As when I went to Gigabyte and Asus, they promote their product w/ features like Japanese capacitors test to 105 deg. C, Super Alloy Power, and from 1 of the above review, how their cooling fan being vastly quieter than others, etc.

Now looking at the MSI GTX 650 or MSI graphics card site, there is only talk of how quiet their fan is, nothing more. So it's tough to believe MSI card is better
 
LigTasm said:
Do you have the arctic or the card already? Its not like the 650ti is a hot running card, it will most likely be pretty quiet by itself. I couldn't see spending $70-90 on a cooler for a $125 card.
Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts. This card doesn't run hot stock, and probably will not benefit at all from this cooler.
 
Happy Hopping said:
Now looking at the MSI GTX 650 or MSI graphics card site, there is only talk of how quiet their fan is, nothing more. So it's tough to believe MSI card is better
Click to expand...

The MSI TFIII and Asus DCUII are both very good and capable coolers. If you like Asus, buy the Asus. The more important part is what you intend to play with the card, because the 650ti boost, while a decent entry level card is nowhere near fast enough for gaming at 1080p with higher settings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top