I am Your New Mod - Let's get organized.

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roftranspo

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slight modification to K*'s flow:

2-3 Overseers

Lackys appointed/recruited by Overseers as they deem fit.
 

FrgMstr

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Hard|Forum - Admins
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Hard|Forum - DC Computing - Mods (follow H Rules and enforce)

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President/Overseer with DC Project but not forums
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lacky 1 - lacky 2

That's what I'm understanding. From the sounds of it this is what Kyle wants to see happen.

So lets start the new thread and see who we should elect for the positions.

Overseer, Contest, [H] member of the month / recruitment

3-4 people. yes? no?

I think this is basically what is going on. But it has NOTHING to do with what Kyle wants. You guys need to post your feedback so we find some common ground and have a basis to move forward.

If you don't want organization, say so. I will not stand in your way of that, but I think tha is a mistake right now.

Also, we are not in a hurry to make this decision, lets discuss it and throw ideas out there.

What is being decided now are our [H] supported project/s. That will be decided by vote, so make yourself heard with the vote button. HardOCP is only going to back 1 or 2 projects, that is all. If you all want to officially have 86 projects, that is great, but do not expect HardOCP recruiting support on all of them. The forums will be here to support ALL DC projects.
 

Tormond

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My only issue that I have seen over the years has been that the "leader" (or whatever you want to call them) makes a decision based on their preference alone (or a few folks preferences). I understand that the person in charge has to be "in charge" but we got to be the #1 folding team in the world NOT by having 4 folks doing it but by having the TEAM do it. I fold for the [H] simply because when I had questions starting out (and still do) I had a place that I could come and folks were friendly and ready to help. Hell, I see people from other teams here frequently asking questions that get answered just as readily (with of course some ribbing about being on the wrong team). THAT is why I fold for the [H]. NO other reason.

For the team to move forward I believe that the TEAM has to move forward together not have 5 people (or 1 or 2) say "OK here is what we are doing now like it or lump it".

As far as the "lets get organized" I think that actually has been one of our strong points is that we have never been "strictly organized". It allows different people with different viewpoints to have their say and let the rest of us decide where we stand. As much ribbing and hell (some..well maybe more than some that was deserved) that Marty has taken over the years and yet here he is day after day helping folks (in his way) and overall striving just to make the folding community as a whole a better, more understood, (and slightly creepier) place for all of us. Would that work in a tightly controlled atmosphere? I just don't see it working.

I am all for their being multiple aspects of our folding team wether it be UD/F@H/BOINC/SETI/Whatever we decide to do. I just want it to be the same friendly place that it has been for the last few years (and yes I actually was there on IRC for a lot of the ugliness that nearly drove me away). I would hate to lose the feeling of family that I think most of us have for each other and to destroy the bonds that have helped forge this TEAM to the #1 folding team in the world. It nearly happened a few years ago over this exact same issue and I would hate to see it happen now (or ever)

I fold for the cure...but I also fold for the [H]orde..Whatever we do, lets do it with mutual respect for EVERY member of the team and move forward towards what at least my ultimate goal is...a cure for what ails us all
 

KodiakStar

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Tormond, I agree with most everything you are saying.
But since the forum Mod(s) (when and if we get new ones) will be focused on Forum Rules,
rather then on the [H]orde team, it would be nice to have people keep the motivation up, like Moose and PH have done.

To continue to make sure contests go on, new ideas are thought through, helping the newbs.. all of that.

If we do decide as a team to do another project, I say it is equally split (positions) between the two teams, with people who are ACTIVE in the forum. If they stop being active for xx time, we find new people.
 

Xilikon

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Tormond, I agree with most everything you are saying.
But since the forum Mod(s) (when and if we get new ones) will be focused on Forum Rules,
rather then on the [H]orde team, it would be nice to have people keep the motivation up, like Moose and PH have done.

To continue to make sure contests go on, new ideas are thought through, helping the newbs.. all of that.

If we do decide as a team to do another project, I say it is equally split (positions) between the two teams, with people who are ACTIVE in the forum. If they stop being active for xx time, we find new people.

I agree with what you said, as well as Tormond.
 

Kvothe

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Unfortunately this being the internet.... we have the whole opinions are like assholes argument, there's always too many of 'em. I originally asked to Kyle to come in here and endorse the single active project we currently have, but if something else is chosen, thats cool. As for agendas and whatnot... thats a part of group with a hierarchy, there's going to be people pushing their agenda, its just a way of life.
 

FrgMstr

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I dont think there is any risk of it getting "strictly organized." As I said, there needs to be a group that is responsible for getting it done. If you guys don't think so, we will figure that out too.

I will put it to a vote when it is all said and done with options voiced here.

But do know this. Moderators will have no official power or leadership in the group unless they are elected by the people.
 

Tormond

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Tormond, I agree with most everything you are saying.
But since the forum Mod(s) (when and if we get new ones) will be focused on Forum Rules,
rather then on the [H]orde team, it would be nice to have people keep the motivation up, like Moose and PH have done.

To continue to make sure contests go on, new ideas are thought through, helping the newbs.. all of that.

If we do decide as a team to do another project, I say it is equally split (positions) between the two teams, with people who are ACTIVE in the forum. If they stop being active for xx time, we find new people.

I agree with that except that I dont see why the lines have to be delineated. Since I amnot a mod and have never been one I don't know what the rules are that they have to follow (except the obvious stuff). I have felt that AM and p[H] have done a stellar job in the past of wearing both hats simultaneously. They have clamped down when it needed it (most of the time) and they have also made this a fun and enjoyable place to be. There has never been a real need for them (that I have seen) to ever have to be extreme one way or the other. I have a lifetime sub to GM (that I purchased simply because I wanted to support what [H] means to me on a daily basis for knowledge purposes) but I probably have read less than 20 posts there ever. With loose moderation (which we have had onestly) this could very easily have become the "free" GM but it never has (for the most part) simply because we DO function as a team without the need for "our insect overlords" (all hail our new insect overlords BTW).

I am grateful to King for all that hardfolding.com has become and for making a tool that I believe makes the DC community a better place for everyone and at the same time I am just as grateful to "n00b01" that just started folding because without ALL of us DC would be a failure from the start. We (the folding community at large) have built something great here with a chance to do something even greater that I am proud to support. To see that fractured even slightly by petty infighting and power grabs saddens me to the core (woot another core...got to find a folding client for that)
 

roftranspo

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With those two points in mind, I say we proceed to find team "leaders"

Proposal - for now, elect two people as team "leaders", if we do select another project, we elect two more "leaders" who only do that project to have an equal say in the team. With one person (potentially) who does both projects for the deciding "vote" if needed or whatever.

Those people would oversee the FAQ's, making sure newbies know what to do, talking with [H]ard|OCP staff to get stuff out on the front page / forum wide, contests, [H]ard Folder, etc. If they can't handle this on their own, they can select, or put to a vote, "helpers" to make sure things run smoothly.

These leaders would not have "absolute power" as many are thinking, rather, it would be like how the forum and team have been up until yesterday, with Moose and Phantom making sure things get "done" around here and prodding people along if needed.

I concur and will now STFU and let others chime in with any more ideas
 

Viper87227

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With those two points in mind, I say we proceed to find team "leaders"

Proposal - for now, elect two people as team "leaders", if we do select another project, we elect two more "leaders" who only do that project to have an equal say in the team. With one person (potentially) who does both projects for the deciding "vote" if needed or whatever.

Those people would oversee the FAQ's, making sure newbies know what to do, talking with [H]ard|OCP staff to get stuff out on the front page / forum wide, contests, [H]ard Folder, etc. If they can't handle this on their own, they can select, or put to a vote, "helpers" to make sure things run smoothly.

These leaders would not have "absolute power" as many are thinking, rather, it would be like how the forum and team have been up until yesterday, with Moose and Phantom making sure things get "done" around here and prodding people along if needed.

Best thing i've heard all day...
 

KodiakStar

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The lines are delineated as Kyle stated he wants the Mod's to Mod, and thats it.

I can see that it makes sense to have team leaders, as all these contests and stuff are very time consuming, and would infringe on mod duties.

This way mods are focused on their job, and the team leaders are focused on their team.

Moderation can take place without favoritism or team politics playing into their decisions to open / close threads, etc
 

roftranspo

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With loose moderation (which we have had onestly) this could very easily have become the "free" GM but it never has (for the most part) simply because we DO function as a team without the need for "our insect overlords" (all hail our new insect overlords BTW).

true....this forum sometimes feels like a "free GM" but trust me, we couldn't totally push the line like in GM and when we started getting close, moosie and p[h] let us know and handled it accordingly. Pretty much what kyle wants is what Moosie and p[H] have been doing but removing the [H]forum mod part of their duties.
 

Scorpionjwp

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Mr. Kyle Bennett:

I want to know a few things after that you may do what you want to this post.

Does people's opinions mean anything on this forum
Does the First Amendment apply in a public forum like this
Will you consider ideas if they are presented to you, like for example what I posted and you deleted?

I don't want anyone else besides Kyle post his response, I want his answers to my questions.
 

FrgMstr

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Mr. Kyle Bennett:

I want to know a few things after that you may do what you want to this post.

Does people's opinions mean anything on this forum
Does the First Amendment apply in a public forum like this
Will you consider ideas if they are presented to you, like for example what I posted and you deleted?

I don't want anyone else besides Kyle post his response, I want his answers to my questions.

1. Yes.

2. No.

3. Yes I consider all ideas presented. You posted an idea in this thread that had NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread. It was off topic and did not belong here. I edited it to keep the thread on topic. This post has nothing to do with this topic. I suggest you post on topic or you will be banned. I will not tell you again.

I have a lot of responsibilities on my plate right now and having to treat ANYONE in here with kid gloves is not going to happen. I am not in the mood for bullshit, so I suggest if you can't post on topic, you not post at all.
 

FrgMstr

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I will add other thoughts later but I felt I needed to respond to this as soon as I read it.

I don't think a mod should ever be any type of leader. I don't care who they are or if it was done by election. They are two things that don't mix. I don't care how impartial someone is and whether they used mod status to purposefully influence things or not, the fact that someone is a mod and in a leadership position at the same time will influence things. The perception that a mod has more knowledge and a better idea of how things should go will always be there. People will follow what they say just because they are a mod and it would seem the powers that be support that. As a leader and mod at the same time will lend too much power to that person's opinion.

I have no problem with a mod having their own opinion and speaking what they believe on a subject for as long as they want, but it should not be done while in a leadership position.

Always keep both positions separate. If a mod decides they want to be a leader at some point, that's fine. They can resign as a mod and become a regular joe again.


I would suggest this is an issue the TEAM needs to decide. Maybe a member could suggest a motion, it be seconded, and put to a vote by the team leader? See how a little orgainization could go a long way towards getting at the very least some ground rules to help make our team more successful? :) Again, "strict" is not needed, but even on the playground in pre-K there are rules that have to be followed that benefit the entire group.
 

Viper87227

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I think the masses are going to agree that the Team Leader idea is a good one.. it seems like a best way to mop up the damage and get on with life. I for one am very interested to see it come to play. I am not nearly as concerned with moderation as I am with getting back to a civil, friendly environment, and a contest or two (I have like $2000 worth of goodies in my basement, and someone needs to take them from me). Quite frankly, the sooner this happens the better. There is going to be tension until something is figured out.
 

Tormond

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I think the masses are going to agree that the Team Leader idea is a good one.. it seems like a best way to mop up the damage and get on with life. I for one am very interested to see it come to play. I am not nearly as concerned with moderation as I am with getting back to a civil, friendly environment, and a contest or two (I have like $2000 worth of goodies in my basement, and someone needs to take them from me). Quite frankly, the sooner this happens the better. There is going to be tension until something is figured out.

Sounds like a plan to me as well. To be honest I would be very interested in going ahead and selecting some "team leaders" and for the moment letting Kyle stay the moderator (I don't agree with everything he says or does but he is very efficent in "cutting thru the bullshit" and keeping things moving in a line toward a goal) until we get things a bit more ironed out. Can we start a new thread where we can make some suggestions on who we would like our team leaders to be?
 

FrgMstr

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Sounds like a plan to me as well. To be honest I would be very interested in going ahead and selecting some "team leaders" and for the moment letting Kyle stay the moderator (I don't agree with everything he says or does but he is very efficent in "cutting thru the bullshit" and keeping things moving in a line toward a goal) until we get things a bit more ironed out. Can we start a new thread where we can make some suggestions on who we would like our team leaders to be?


Yes I will do this.
 

Viper87227

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Sounds like a plan to me as well. To be honest I would be very interested in going ahead and selecting some "team leaders" and for the moment letting Kyle stay the moderator (I don't agree with everything he says or does but he is very efficent in "cutting thru the bullshit" and keeping things moving in a line toward a goal) until we get things a bit more ironed out. Can we start a new thread where we can make some suggestions on who we would like our team leaders to be?

That is more or less what I was fishing for. No need to set on our hands... lets get a thread going now.
 

FrgMstr

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Also, the argument was made above that the project voting period was too short. I will extend this till next week and we will see where we are.
 

roftranspo

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I don't know if you will go for this or not, but I propose that any UD'ers vote counts double. There are two sides to the whole UD issue. If only UDers have a say, that is not fair to any F@Her who may participate in another project, or perhaps did UD in the past. However, to leave things even skews things so bad that the outcome is pretty well predictable. Giving any UDer a double vote, so to speak, might better please both parties.

but you voted for F@H only? :confused:

and this is what we are staying away from....one member, one vote....just because you are on one project as opposed to another doesnt make you different than anyone else on the team. its only one [H]orde
 

FrgMstr

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I don't know if you will go for this or not, but I propose that any UD'ers vote counts double. There are two sides to the whole UD issue. If only UDers have a say, that is not fair to any F@Her who may participate in another project, or perhaps did UD in the past. However, to leave things even skews things so bad that the outcome is pretty well predictable. Giving any UDer a double vote, so to speak, might better please both parties.

Sorry, one member gets one vote. I am not even going to open the can of worms explained above. If you feel as though that is unfair, well, you will just have to think it is unfair. We are a team of equals, no matter what your project.
 

Majic

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Im still here and I am willing to do what I can to help the team. I always have been. Look at any project we have done, I have atleast tried it. FAH1, Genome, UD, and a few others down the road that we looked at for something else to run.

But if the team dont want me for anything other then producing units and points I guess I can do that too for now. I have seen alot of things go on around here with the infighting and the way ppl made up their minds to back other ppl along the way. Even saw so many push and slander the old crew who took the name of The Council. The ppl that were the ones concived Hardfolding.com and alot of the stuff that has been deleted or lost over time with the change of the forums and mods.

We are still here some alittle more silent then others. And I beleive we(Horde) will work something out that is best for the team.

X projects to rule. And, Hard to rule them all!!
 

Anderu

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Welcome Kyle.

I know this was not the way you wanted to get to know us. But now that you are here, regardless of the reasons, I think you will see this is a great group of people.

Sure, we need guidance once in awhile, and perhaps someone to occasionally point out when our freedom of expression violates the old Mark Twain adage "Your right to swing your fist ends, where my nose begins". But all in all, the atmosphere here is one of cooperation and dedication to the effort. I think if you can tap into that, you will be able to guide us into forging something new, and beyond even what we have achieved thus far.

I know that spending time here, takes away from the myriad of other things you do on a daily basis. Things that, in part, allow us to be here in the first place. We all know that, and appreciate it. But I hope you will find that time spent here, with these folks, is kind of a cleanser for the soul. Because despite what they say sometimes, what they do together as team, redeems us all, and that has to go on. They have achieved number one status in the WORLD, by a large margin, in F@H. The UD effort managed to stay in the top 10 for years. There is definitely something special about this community.

I know this sounds like a lot of sycophantic blabber. Those who know me, know that I speak from the heart on these things. Those that don't can think what they wish. But, since Kyle took the opportunity to introduce himself today, I thought I would do the same, and provide my humble take on things.

 

Crosshairs

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Some good suggestions by everyone...

As for me, I have no desire to do anything but sit in the back of the class and let my machines run....

I have more than enough going on with work and my family.

I like to pop in here and read the forums once in a while, and see if I passed anyone, so I can talk smack...:)

I'm also up for the occasional race , but thats about it..

I hope this doesn't offend anyone.







 

JBavousett

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Huh...so, does this mean that there's going to be a bunch of bitching and moaning...and personal attacks against Moos from the new mod? Like that Dead Thread that the new mod posted about why Moose was dumped...then saying it was none of our business? :rolleyes:

I'm wondering if it's not time to jump ship and find a new team to fold with. Treads like the one I just mentioned make me worry about the direction this new mod want's to take us.
 

ND40oz

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Huh...so, does this mean that there's going to be a bunch of bitching and moaning...and personal attacks against Moos from the new mod? Like that Dead Thread that the new mod posted about why Moose was dumped...then saying it was none of our business? :rolleyes:

I'm wondering if it's not time to jump ship and find a new team to fold with. Treads like the one I just mentioned make me worry about the direction this new mod want's to take us.

I'd suggest that you give it some time and let the dust settle. Atleast that's what I'm planning on doing.
 

fenderltd

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I'd suggest that you give it some time and let the dust settle. Atleast that's what I'm planning on doing.

Same, maybe the horde was broke and needed to be fixed. Atleast give them a fair chance to see how everything shapes up, it can't hurt.
 
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I am here for one reason. I fold and I need someplace that can keep me apprised of changes in folding (ex. SMP, PS3....) so I can make informed desisions on my folding. The [H]ord has lots of talent that helps the newbes become (more) productive and members that set up contests to keep things from getting booring. Thats why I chose to fold for team 33 and that has not changed. Lets keep moving foward.:D
 

FrgMstr

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I didn't see anything negative in my post. Just an observation. I donated cash to the Horde, and I fold for the cure...but if this is going to turn into some flame fest against old mods, regardless of what happened, I have a problem with it. It seems kinda redundant to post a thread and then say it's none of our business...and then lock it. That's all I was getting at. If it's none of our business, let it die. There are too many good people folding here, and too much drama from a few others. I don't make drama, I just read posts and chime in on occasion. This is one of those occasions where I want to make it clear that I don't care who runs it, as long as no one tries to be some control freak or glory hog. I don't know Moose. I've swapped posts with him before, and he seemed nice enough, but I have no "side" in this thing. We're folding for the Cure. We just choose to do it WITH the Horde. I can fold with anyone, and my work will still be done, my contribution will still be made. The poeple in this group make it great. I just don't what to see it messed with too much. Fix what's broken, but please, leave the rest alone.

Your thoughts are noted. But don't come back and play mister nice guy after your negative post. If you have issue with what I said, quote it as I said it. You can take your issues with me via PM.
 

Viper87227

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I'll be the first to say it, I was pretty angry yesterday when I heard about Chris, and the issues this morning had me read to say fuck it and pack my bags. But, I have to say, I have come around in a huge way. Kyle's idea of team leaders, and separating team duties from moderation is actually a great idea, and I really look forward to seeing what becomes of it.

These are awkward times for the team. A project is gone, and there is animosity in trying to find something new. Our beloved moderators are no more. Kyle is bringing about changes. There is a lot to get used to, but this is just a rough patch in the road. Quite frankly, the outlook is very positive... and I was saying the exact opposite. So, chill out and see what happens before you pack your bags or overstay your welcome. If all goes well, this could turn into a very positive thing for the team.
 

JBavousett

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Wow...talk about off on the wrong foot. I edited the quote so it's all there, but I still don't see my post as a negative comment, just an observation about a negative situation. Whatever, back to the shadows for me.
 

Xilikon

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I'll be the first to say it, I was pretty angry yesterday when I heard about Chris, and the issues this morning had me read to say fuck it and pack my bags. But, I have to say, I have come around in a huge way. Kyle's idea of team leaders, and separating team duties from moderation is actually a great idea, and I really look forward to seeing what becomes of it.

These are awkward times for the team. A project is gone, and there is animosity in trying to find something new. Our beloved moderators are no more. Kyle is bringing about changes. There is a lot to get used to, but this is just a rough patch in the road. Quite frankly, the outlook is very positive... and I was saying the exact opposite. So, chill out and see what happens before you pack your bags or overstay your welcome. If all goes well, this could turn into a very positive thing for the team.

I agree, we may be in a rough period but I cannot wait for a brighter future. I hope that if our former mods is appointed as leaders, that they can express his dedication to the team without being hampered by the mod duties and give the boring duty to someone else. As a Senior Mod of another forum, I know how it's sometime hard to take a stance on things without thinking about how the mod duty affect my opinion.

 

KodiakStar

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Kyle, Is it a possibility for custom "titles" for the team leaders to reflect their positions as such, and to differentiate them from any mod's who will be in our forum and other team members?
 

AtomicMoose

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I wanted to start off by saying that I enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts in this thread, and I think most of you are on the right track.

I agree, we may be in a rough period but I cannot wait for a brighter future. I hope that if our former mods is appointed as leaders, that they can express his dedication to the team without being hampered by the mod duties and give the boring duty to someone else. As a Senior Mod of another forum, I know how it's sometime hard to take a stance on things without thinking about how the mod duty affect my opinion.
This was a daily struggle and perhaps my downfall. ;)
 

FrgMstr

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Kyle, Is it a possibility for custom "titles" for the team leaders to reflect their positions as such, and to differentiate them from any mod's who will be in our forum and other team members?

I would fully support that.
 

roftranspo

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Kyle, Is it a possibility for custom "titles" for the team leaders to reflect their positions as such, and to differentiate them from any mod's who will be in our forum and other team members?

it would make sense :)
 
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