Hutzy XS — Ultra Compact Gaming Case (<4L)

eggDK said:
I have been considering the same thing, but I have a feeling that this will not be relevant for very many before we see stx boards with full pci-e slot.. If that will ever happen I have no idea.
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The lack of a full pci-e slot shouldn't matter for this form factor, because you can use one of these M.2 NGFF -> PCIe 4x adapters:
P4SM2 (PCIe X4 to M.2 Adapter)

PCIe 4x throughput is even enough for a 1080, without impacting performance. Since only 1070's are available in a compact form factor this wouldn't be a worry.
I think a bigger concern would be the lack of available STX boards.
 
But then you lose the M.2 slot for your system SSD, and add extra cabling to the build…?
 
He's already using a PCIe riser so no extra cable there. :)
But yes, you would loose M.2 for SSD. If you can put up with 2 seconds longer boot time ;)
 
LukeD said:
He's already using a PCIe riser so no extra cable there. :)
But yes, you would loose M.2 for SSD. If you can put up with 2 seconds longer boot time ;)
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You would need two power adapters though. STX boards use DC-in for power and don't have a 24-pin connector, then you would still need a PSU to power the GPU. Thin Mini-ITX also has this problem.
AFAIK there's no way to further slim down the case without adding problems. If you go Thin Mini-ITX you have two power cables. If you go Mini-STX you have two power cables and no M.2 slot. If you make the GPU single slot there's not really any GPUs you can use.
I think the only way you could really save space is by removing FlexATX PSU support and making it DC-ATX only but that limits the power to around 300w.
 
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I'm back from my travels! The XS went through airport security checks of 3 different countries across 2 continents without a hitch. It it just powered-down electronics akin to a Playstation or Xbox after all; I was worried over nothing.

Worth noting is that the SATA cable did pop off from my SSD so I had to open up XS to reattach it. I want to make some improvements in that regard.
 
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LukeD said:
Hahutzy, have you thought about changing the form factor from mITX to 5x5 (mini-STX) ?
That would balance the two side (gpu and mb side) and potentially allow to create a smaller enclosure.
I know there's not a lot of mini-STX boards out right now ... but the right case would definitely entice people to look at it.
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Aibohphobia has done work revolving around the STX form factor. Check out his STX160.0 build over at SFFnet

STX is definitely is a step towards making the build smaller, but I think that the tradeoff of extra components and complexity -- along with scarcity of STX boards right now -- makes it even more difficult to produce at reasonable price and quantity than XS in its current state.
 
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ITXGamer said:
I think the only way you could really save space is by removing FlexATX PSU support and making it DC-ATX only but that limits the power to around 300w.
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I wonder if there is overall space savings in this. I.e. is the volume of a 300W external power brick larger than volume reduction inside the case when going from FlexATX to DC-DC?
 
Brian_R170 said:
I wonder if there is overall space savings in this. I.e. is the volume of a 300W external power brick larger than volume reduction inside the case when going from FlexATX to DC-DC?
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This is personally the reason why I prefer FlexATX solution more. It is not really known how long the DC-DC external power brick setup will hold up with a GTX 1070 and an undervolted i7. To keep the system from crashing due to random power spike loads during gaming, you would have fiddle a lot with the graphic settings and turn certain things off.
 
Sorry to bring this up again, but I'm wondering if the Razer Blade Stealth could be used as an external display/keyboard/trackpad for a desktop PC, such as the Hutzy XS. It seems to have a video-in, since it's possible to connect it to the Razer Core and have the external graphics card output video to the laptop over the same Thunderbolt connection that's used to carry the GPU signal. So I'm thinking, something like the Hutzy XS could be a super-Razer Core, i.e. not just an external GPU, but a whole "external" computer. It's actually considerably smaller than the Core and you could build a whole system in it that wouldn't cost much more than the obscenely priced Core. This could solve the issue of having a tiny portable desktop that needs bulky peripherals. I'm also eagerly awaiting the Superbook laptop shell that iFreilicht enlightened me about. It's meant for Android phones, but may also work with PCs. It would be sick to have a full-on ultrabook with externally accessible peripherals though, so you could have 2 PCs in one.
 
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Whew…! Thought I was gonna have to come in here and bump this thread back to the front page…!

Really looking forward to this one Hahutzy…! Love the thought of a substantial amount of computing power stuffed into this uSFF chassis…!!!

Any date on expected timeline delivery…?!?
 
Hahutzy said:
Still working towards having some sort of ordering/crowdsourcing be up by the end of this year.
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How much will the case be? Also, will you be including the FSP 500w Flex-ATX psu with this case? Also, I wonder if how does the Thermolab ITX30 and Silverstone AR05 compare to the Noctua NHL-9i in this case?
 
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I just can't get past the 80mm x 10mm fan on the ITX30, and the color palette of the AR05 is even worse (IMHO) than that of the NH-L9i…

But I do like the all copper aspect of the ITX30…!

Why can I not have a Skylake/1151 version of the T318 that is 25mm tall and pre-slotted for mounting the Noctua NF-A9x14 with wire spring clips…?
 
Boil said:
I just can't get past the 80mm x 10mm fan on the ITX30, and the color palette of the AR05 is even worse (IMHO) than that of the NH-L9i…
But I do like the all copper aspect of the ITX30…!
Why can I not have a Skylake/1151 version of the T318 that is 25mm tall and pre-slotted for mounting the Noctua NF-A9x14 with wire spring clips…?
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From the reviews I have read, ITX30 runs quieter and slightly cooler on most reviews. The AR05 runs decently cooler than the NH-L9i in one review, though I find it suspect in that same review that it ran quite a bit cooler than even the Thermolab LP53. ITX30 is really expensive on eBay right now, so it is unfortunately best to just run the NH-L9i. I do wonder how the case holds up with an undervolted i5 or i7 K-series cpu with turbo-mode turned off.
 
I guess the next question would be how the spacing from the fan/heatsink to the side perf panel affects overall temperatures…

I have the impression that the further back the fan from the side opening, the more air is going to recirculate in that space…?

So, for this particular chassis, the taller NH-L9i might perform better overall…?

I dunno, I guess we need someone to get their hands on the various HSFs that will fit this chassis & test them…?!?

And the M.2 temps…
 
Boil said:
I guess the next question would be how the spacing from the fan/heatsink to the side perf panel affects overall temperatures…

I have the impression that the further back the fan from the side opening, the more air is going to recirculate in that space…?

So, for this particular chassis, the taller NH-L9i might perform better overall…?

I dunno, I guess we need someone to get their hands on the various HSFs that will fit this chassis & test them…?!?

And the M.2 temps…
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It will be a compromise between turbulence noise with small clearance and air recirculation with larger clearance.. I guess a duct could reduce both recirculation and turbulence noise, if these were to become an issue. Anyway, it would be good with more tests :)
 
I wonder if a full ducting; sealing from the side panel perfs to the fan intake(s) (HSF / GPU), would cause more air exchange; the increased positive pressure forcing air out of the top more…?

Can we get some thermodynamic simulations of this…?!?
 
Boil said:
I wonder if a full ducting; sealing from the side panel perfs to the fan intake(s) (HSF / GPU), would cause more air exchange; the increased positive pressure forcing air out of the top more…?

Can we get some thermodynamic simulations of this…?!?
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I have done this for years putting 65W-95W CPUs in tiny Travla/Casetronic mini ITX cases. I use old transparency film (i.e. overhead projector slide sheets). It usually makes a very noticeable improvement, but can depend on how well you can make the ducts "seal." Separating the intake and exhaust flow of the GPU from the rest of the system can make a big difference too.
 
Brian_R170 said:
I have done this for years putting 65W-95W CPUs in tiny Travla/Casetronic mini ITX cases. I use old transparency film (i.e. overhead projector slide sheets). It usually makes a very noticeable improvement, but can depend on how well you can make the ducts "seal." Separating the intake and exhaust flow of the GPU from the rest of the system can make a big difference too.
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I was more thinking of fitted ducts; full enclosure from side panel opening to fan intake; I would see these as a 3d printed item…

Have a small flange at either end, sealed with 1/4" weatherstripping at either end…?
 
Brian_R170 said:
I wonder if there is overall space savings in this. I.e. is the volume of a 300W external power brick larger than volume reduction inside the case when going from FlexATX to DC-DC?
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It's possible to get some space savings, but the nature of using more smaller components means a few things:
1) more expensive
2) more points of failure
Those are the 2 things sacrificed up front to even have a chance at space savings.

QuantumBraced said:
Sorry to bring this up again, but I'm wondering if the Razer Blade Stealth could be used as an external display/keyboard/trackpad for a desktop PC, such as the Hutzy XS. It seems to have a video-in, since it's possible to connect it to the Razer Core and have the external graphics card output video to the laptop over the same Thunderbolt connection that's used to carry the GPU signal. So I'm thinking, something like the Hutzy XS could be a super-Razer Core, i.e. not just an external GPU, but a whole "external" computer. It's actually considerably smaller than the Core and you could build a whole system in it that wouldn't cost much more than the obscenely priced Core. This could solve the issue of having a tiny portable desktop that needs bulky peripherals. I'm also eagerly awaiting the Superbook laptop shell that iFreilicht enlightened me about. It's meant for Android phones, but may also work with PCs. It would be sick to have a full-on ultrabook with externally accessible peripherals though, so you could have 2 PCs in one.
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I'd personally love to see clamshell form factor monitor+keyboard combos, but that's probably a non-existant niche right now because there really isn't "travel/mini high performance desktops" in the market at large yet.

CknSalad said:
How much will the case be? Also, will you be including the FSP 500w Flex-ATX psu with this case? Also, I wonder if how does the Thermolab ITX30 and Silverstone AR05 compare to the Noctua NHL-9i in this case?
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I still need to receive the prototype v2 case, then have the whole thing anodized (and painted for the white option), and add up those costs + the electronics like the riser and power button.
I don't have a solid number yet, but when I do, this thread is where I'll be posting it.
The FSP 500 will not be included for now, because it isn't available yet. Including the FSP 400 is an option I'm considering.
I do not have the ITX30 or the AR05, but I think I've results of the Noctua L9i edging out the AR05

Boil said:
And the M.2 temps…
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Will work on that after I have the case manufacturing/finishing sorted out

frederik2323 said:
Will this case be available in silver? Hoping so...
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Silver like raw metal silver with clear anodize? No plans on that, but it's a possibility.
 
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Hahutzy said:
Including the FSP 400 is an option I'm considering.
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The version on Amazon with the GPU cable, I hope…?

Would you be modding the cables any, or just shipping as is from Amazon…?

I (personally) would be cutting off the Molex / FDD cable, cutting down the SATA to a single connector & cutting down the MB, CPU, & GPU cables…

Probably throw each cable bundle into mono-sleeves (that mesh stuff) with heat shrink on each end, new pins & connectors…

Nice & tidy…!
 
Hahutzy said:
Silver like raw metal silver with clear anodize? No plans on that, but it's a possibility.
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Yeah, silver like the color the NCASE M1 and DAN A4-SFX are available in. Would be very nice to see, and would make me buy this case in a heartbeat! :)
 
So, the Geforce GTX 1050 Ti units are showing up on NewEgg…

No external power needed, 75w max draw from the PCIe slot, 4GB GDDR5 RAM…

With a M.2 SSD as the only drive & a GTX 1050 Ti, the Hutzy XS now only requires two cables from the PSU…!

And PCPartsPicker tells me that the following:

MSI H170I Pro AC ITX MB
Intel i5 6500 3.2GHz CPU
Noctua NH-L9i HSF
G.Skill NT Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 2133 CAS 13 SDRAM
Intel 600p Series 256GB M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe SSD
EVGA Geforce GTX 1050 Ti GPU

…comes in at 201 watts…!!!
 
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Great, now I am torn…

Cost savings & low power requirements of the 1050 Ti, or better performance & added heat of the 1060 SC…?

Arrrggghhhh…!!!
 
Boil said:
Great, now I am torn…
Cost savings & low power requirements of the 1050 Ti, or better performance & added heat of the 1060 SC…?
Arrrggghhhh…!!!
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Why not go big and go for the Gigabyte GTX 1070 Mini ITX :D
 
Boil said:
So, the Geforce GTX 1050 Ti units are showing up on NewEgg…

No external power needed, 75w max draw from the PCIe slot, 4GB GDDR5 RAM…

With a M.2 SSD as the only drive & a GTX 1050 Ti, the Hutzy XS now only requires two cables from the PSU…!

And PCPartsPicker tells me that the following:

MSI H170I Pro AC ITX MB
Intel i5 6500 3.2GHz CPU
Noctua NH-L9i HSF
G.Skill NT Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 2133 CAS 13 SDRAM
Intel 600p Series 256GB M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe SSD
EVGA Geforce GTX 1050 Ti GPU

…comes in at 201 watts…!!!
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I doubt it'd even pull that much from the wall. Because you're using the dedicated card, the IGP won't be working/reduces the chips tdp. So maybe ~40w for the CPU, and 75~ for the GPU and say 25w for the rest to be generous. You'd be lucky to pull 150w. I believe I was on similar with my older GTX 750 Ti and Dual Core Pentium setup, so it would be similar to that I suppose.
 
CknSalad said:
Why not go big and go for the Gigabyte GTX 1070 Mini ITX :D
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I wish there was an ITX 1070 with triple DisplayPort; the port configuration on the Gigabyte model is not what I want…

And I read about excessive coil whine here & there…

And I worry about too much heat in the small chassis that is the Hutzy XS…

But mainly, the 1060 is, for me, that just right balance of price & performance…?

Besides, if I am going to "go big", I would be holding out for the Titan ITX…! ;^p
 
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I guess the big question on the GTX 1050 / 1050 Ti is, will the PCIe riser cable that comes with the chassis pass the full 75 watts thru to the GPU…?

A similar question was raised in the MI-6 chassis thread, regarding usage of a GTX 750 Ti…
 
Boil said:
I guess the big question on the GTX 1050 / 1050 Ti is, will the PCIe riser cable that comes with the chassis pass the full 75 watts thru to the GPU…?
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I sure hope so. Even cards with 6- and 8-pin power connectors can and do attempt to pull the maximum-allowed PCIe power through the slot.
 
Boil said:
The version on Amazon with the GPU cable, I hope…?

Would you be modding the cables any, or just shipping as is from Amazon…?
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Yes, it will at least be like the version on Amazon. I can ask for further modifications from the supplier if I order them over a certain volume.

Boil said:
I guess the big question on the GTX 1050 / 1050 Ti is, will the PCIe riser cable that comes with the chassis pass the full 75 watts thru to the GPU…?

A similar question was raised in the MI-6 chassis thread, regarding usage of a GTX 750 Ti…
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The riser will not be a problem. I've ran these cards through my several risers in my testing:

GTX 980 Ti
GTX 970
GTX 750 Ti

Never had an issue as long as I run in PCIE Gen 2
 
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Hahutzy said:
Yes, it will at least be like the version on Amazon. I can ask for further modifications from the supplier if I order them over a certain volume.



The riser will not be a problem. I've ran these cards through my several risers in my testing:

GTX 980 Ti
GTX 970
GTX 750 Ti

Never had an issue as long as I run in PCIE Gen 2
Click to expand...

B-but then I gotta go into the BIOS & adjust s-stuff…!
 
ReaperX22 said:
I doubt it'd even pull that much from the wall. Because you're using the dedicated card, the IGP won't be working/reduces the chips tdp. So maybe ~40w for the CPU, and 75~ for the GPU and say 25w for the rest to be generous. You'd be lucky to pull 150w. I believe I was on similar with my older GTX 750 Ti and Dual Core Pentium setup, so it would be similar to that I suppose.
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Brutal. The HDPLEX 160W DC-ATX has a peak of 200W so even if you are wrong, the PSU would survive. And that's very cheap unlike the 250W version. $80 for the necessary AC-DC converter and the board altogether. That's just brutal.
 
Newegg has the Intel 600p 1TB M.2 SSD at 350 bucks…

One (1) TB of NVMe SSD goodness in a package the size of a stick of gum…!

Plenty of drive space for a general usage / gaming rig, and two less cables…!

(…most recent thoughts were to go with a 256GB Intel 600p M.2 SSD & a 1TB Samsung 850 Evo 2.5" SSD…)

Still concerned about M.2 temps on the backside of the MB though…
 
Boil,

A couple weeks ago, I got 9 Skull Canyon NUCs with 32GB RAM and 1TB M.2 SSDs for my team at work. Because the 1TB Intel 600p just came out, 6 have the 1TB Intel 600p and 3 have the 1TB Intel 540s. They are software development workstations and run large parallel software builds that hammer the disk pretty hard for 90 minutes. The difference between the 600p and 540s is a few seconds. Also, I swapped out a 360GB Intel 540s for a 512GB Intel 600p in my son's gaming system and neither I nor he could notice any difference in performance at all. I guess what I'm saying is you probably won't notice a difference in performance if you go with a SATA M.2 drive instead of NVMe, but you will notice a difference in the heat generated by the drive, plus you'll save 30% - 50% of the cost depending on which SSDs you are looking at.

In your case, since you're planning to get a 1TB 2.5" SATA SSD anyway, you might consider replacing the 2.5" SATA with an M.2 SATA to eliminate some cables, or just skip the M.2 altogether. You're disk usage certainly may be different, but it's a thought. You can always get a 1TB M.2 SATA drive and try it in the motherboard M.2 slot and if you later want to move it due to heat or because you want an M.2 NVMe drive, then you can simply buy a M.2 SATA-->2.5" SATA adapter box for about $10 that turns it into a 2.5" SATA SSD.
 
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As cool as M.2 NVMe ssds are, the drives still run too hot under load and are too expensive for my liking. Either these ssds need heatsinks or there needs to be vertical ports for them on mini-itx boards. I would just get a 1TB Crucial MX300 or 1TB Sandisk X400 instead to save money. If you really want to, I guess the Samsung 850 EVO 1TB, but that is quite costly at around $300 or so still.

If you are doing serious workloads, then by far the Samsung 850 Pro or Sandisk Extreme Pro as those are MLC-based ssds and should last quite a bit longer than TLC-based ssds.
 
hey hahutzy any updates? super excited about this case. preemptive build:

- CPU: Intel Core i3-6100 3.7GHz
- Cooler: Rosewill RCX-Z775-LP
- Mobo: MSI H110I Pro Mini ITX
- RAM: Crucial 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory
- SSD (owned): OCZ TRION 150 240GB 2.5"
- GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB SC GAMING ACX 2.0
- PSU: SeaSonic 300W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular Flex ATX

Cost: ~$420 (w/o case)
Power Req: ~181W

it would be nice to grab an m.2 to cut down on cables, but that would add to the cost (might consider picking one up if i can find a great deal). i also want to stick with a gpu that doesn't require a 6-pin connection (to cut down on the cost of the psu). i would like to go amd for freesync, but the rx 460 just seems like not enough power. if we're dreaming, an rx 470d with a 75w power draw would be amazing
 
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