Hundreds Banned From Destiny 2 PC

Dan said:
Blizzard has Data bases of all customer info. I got banned in World of warcraft once upon a time, 1-2 years later I went and re-bought the game with the same Credit card from bnet. After about 30-45 min of playing, I got banned again for no reason. It took me 3 weeks to appeal the ban which got approved with a "we are sorry, our systems flagged your credit card".
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I remember back in a old guild in ffxi our leader got banned for POS hacking and stuff. A month later his brother got banned since he was on the same CC.
 
I have ~ 30 peeps that bought the game and none of us have encountered any issues. It's hard to believe internet news like this because it's likely people are actually getting banned for a real reason, and they are just playing innocent on forums and such.
 
Lifelite said:
I have ~ 30 peeps that bought the game and none of us have encountered any issues. It's hard to believe internet news like this because it's likely people are actually getting banned for a real reason, and they are just playing innocent on forums and such.
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Also this could be happening to .0001% of the population and the internet runs with it.
 
Obviously a difference of opinion here, but id rather see 10 hackers go free than 1 innocent person get banned.
 
Krenum said:
"A flaw in a computer system" exactly, so if it ships with a flaw, and players take advantage of the flaw, then it's not cheating because you're not introducing anything to the software environment that wasn't already present when the software was created.
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Some people will justify anything...I'd love to have seen you try that argument with blizzard when they were mass banning folks for exploiting in the early days of WoW. ;)

In case I wasn't clear, an exploit is an unintended mechanic and is cheating.
 
It is the gold standard - bunch of people banned for cheating and exploits. Some come up with fantasty explanations of "I was just using MSI afterburner!" and other things, and internet runs wild.

The simplest explanation is that they actually were cheating. This is a VERY small amount of players, percentage wise.
 
greyboxer said:
Obviously a difference of opinion here, but id rather see 10 hackers go free than 1 innocent person get banned.
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Then you'll be pleased to note thousands "go free" (whatever that means in an online game) for every cheater they ban.

Keep in mind, they do not actually want to prevent paying customers from paying for the game's goodies.
 
Oh I am well aware. But if you believe even one or two of those 400 stories, i feel bad for those folks. However, I know most of them were banned for good reason, and shame on them and see ya later alligator dont forget to write. Its the few people, myself included, who were terrified after seeing this, after starting the game with MSI AB running or some such. Lots of paranoia out there.
 
HorseproofBacon said:
Some people will justify anything...I'd love to have seen you try that argument with blizzard when they were mass banning folks for exploiting in the early days of WoW. ;)

In case I wasn't clear, an exploit is an unintended mechanic and is cheating.
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Oh god, You just brought me back when when my guild was progressing in ZG and that exploit with one of the bosses was for everyone to just simply stand on pillars on the ground and the adds cant kill you... Got a 1 month suspenion for that... Should have argued, But I did nothing wrong! it was in the game!!! No, I was totally aware that we were breaking the system and got hit with a suspension
 
6 months into GW2, I got "permabanned" and all communication from the company was "this was reviewed carefully and is final, don't even try to appeal you dirty cheater"

Then 8 days later I was unbanned. Seems there was some kind of database error that affected all the "manual review" of account bans.

I've never cheated at an online game - ever - and if I was King, I'd probably give cheaters the death penalty (not kidding) but even in my terrible mercy, I would give them more due process, respect and review than these companies give their players before they ban them and immediately block all communication.
 
HorseproofBacon said:
Some people will justify anything...I'd love to have seen you try that argument with blizzard when they were mass banning folks for exploiting in the early days of WoW. ;)

In case I wasn't clear, an exploit is an unintended mechanic and is cheating.
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I was there for it. Never once got banned for using them. Blame the developers not the person using the mechanic. Companies like Blizzard will never admit fault though.
 
Dan said:
Oh god, You just brought me back when when my guild was progressing in ZG and that exploit with one of the bosses was for everyone to just simply stand on pillars on the ground and the adds cant kill you... Got a 1 month suspenion for that... Should have argued, But I did nothing wrong! it was in the game!!! No, I was totally aware that we were breaking the system and got hit with a suspension
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Or leading end game raid bosses into stormwind lol. It was mildly amusing to log on and then get instakilled and look around seeing the entire city, guards, shop keepers, the king, dead because somebody led a raid boss into the town...somehow. Forced blizzard to do an emergency restart of the server.

Ahh good times.
 
Dan said:
Oh god, You just brought me back when when my guild was progressing in ZG and that exploit with one of the bosses was for everyone to just simply stand on pillars on the ground and the adds cant kill you... Got a 1 month suspenion for that... Should have argued, But I did nothing wrong! it was in the game!!! No, I was totally aware that we were breaking the system and got hit with a suspension
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But you weren't breaking the system, the system was already broken, you were just using it to your advantage. Just because the coding was bad doesn't mean you were cheating, you were playing the game AT THE TIME exactly as it was intended.
 
Krenum said:
But you weren't breaking the system, the system was already broken, you were just using it to your advantage. Just because the coding was bad doesn't mean you were cheating, you were playing the game AT THE TIME exactly as it was intended.
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A bug is unintentional. Exploiting a bug is not adhering to the intended gameplay mechanics, so by definition it is cheating.
 
Krenum said:
But you weren't breaking the system, the system was already broken, you were just using it to your advantage. Just because the coding was bad doesn't mean you were cheating, you were playing the game AT THE TIME exactly as it was intended.
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whaaaatttt? you think like that? theres a road near my house that is 6 miles long with no speed signs. Let me drive my car 130 mph and get pulled over... "Officer, My car was designed to go this speed therefore I did nothing wrong" I know its not the best comparison but its the first thing that came to my mind. :LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
Dan said:
whaaaatttt? you think like that? theres a road near my house that is 6 miles long with no speed signs. Let me drive my car 130 mph and get pulled over... "Officer, My car was designed to go this speed therefore I did nothing wrong" I know its not the best comparison but its the first thing that came to my mind. :LOL::LOL::LOL:
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Since there was no speed limit posted, you might have a good case.
 
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Krenum said:
Since their was no speed limit posted, you might have a good case.
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Meaning no disrespect, but I'm guessing you have no experience with how that actually plays out.

You will say there was no sign, and the judge will ask you what speed did seem safe in the area you were at. If you indicate 130, they will indicate you are not capable of making sensible choices, and remove your license to drive.

I was actually in court when some dude made a very similar argument. It did not go well.
 
PhaseNoise said:
Meaning no disrespect, but I'm guessing you have no experience with how that actually plays out.

You will say there was no sign, and the judge will ask you what speed did seem safe in the area you were at. If you indicate 130, they will indicate you are not capable of making sensible choices, and remove your license to drive.

I was actually in court when some dude made a very similar argument. It did not go well.
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I've never been pulled over or had a speeding ticket so you're right.
 
Krenum said:
Since there was no speed limit posted, you might have a good case.
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I'm Canadian but I have driven in the state enough to know that the same applies there. When no limit is posted there is still a limit.

Here its 50 km/h in urban areas, 90 km/h in rural, and 30 km/h in back lanes.

From the North Dakota highway patrol;
"The speed limit is 55 mph on gravel, loose dirt, or on loose surface highways and on paved two-lane county and township highways if there is no speed limit posted."

Suggesting to a judge that there was no sign posted so you did what you wanted... would no doubt get your licence yanked. As clearly you had not even read a drivers handbook. :)
 
Krenum said:
Since there was no speed limit posted, you might have a good case.
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Usually cities have signs that say "Unless otherwise posted, the speed limit is X" when you drive into the city limits. So probably that argument would be invalid.

However, I do agree with you overall about the exploit thing. Is it cheating? Maybe...but the developer is at fault, not the user.

It's funny too, how people will suddenly flip their opinion on this, depending on whether or not a) it affects them negatively by other people using it or b) they are able to get in on the exploit before it gets patched.
 
MavericK said:
However, I do agree with you overall about the exploit thing. Is it cheating? Maybe...but the developer is at fault, not the user.
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Well most developers draw a line on that type of cheating. If a X or Y is rewarding to much... or X or Y skill is tuned to be more powerful then it should be. If your an average player who has made use of such things in the normal course of game play so be it. If however you pulled a 24hr fueled by red bull gaming session to farm or farm/with said exploit... you can expect most devs will end up reverting your gains, and a few with ban you cause your behaviour will be indistinguishable from the botters which will be getting the boot at the same time for likely farming the same exploit you where.

My general rule in online games... if I am playing content where I notice I'm doing the exact same thing the farming bots seem to be doing, I move on. lol
 
ChadD said:
Well most developers draw a line on that type of cheating. If a X or Y is rewarding to much... or X or Y skill is tuned to be more powerful then it should be. If your an average player who has made use of such things in the normal course of game play so be it. If however you pulled a 24hr fueled by red bull gaming session to farm or farm/with said exploit... you can expect most devs will end up reverting your gains, and a few with ban you cause your behaviour will be indistinguishable from the botters which will be getting the boot at the same time for likely farming the same exploit you where.

My general rule in online games... if I am playing content where I notice I'm doing the exact same thing the farming bots seem to be doing, I move on. lol
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I have mixed feelings on that because on the one hand, I don't want the game to be completely ruined by exploits. On the other hand, developers should fix their shit, it's not the user's fault they played the game as they were able to at the time. I am okay with rollbacks of items/stats/whatever but banning seems over the line to me, unless it is confirmed people were actually using bots (which I am guessing goes against the TOS of the game anyway).
 
MavericK said:
I have mixed feelings on that because on the one hand, I don't want the game to be completely ruined by exploits. On the other hand, developers should fix their shit, it's not the user's fault they played the game as they were able to at the time. I am okay with rollbacks of items/stats/whatever but banning seems over the line to me, unless it is confirmed people were actually using bots (which I am guessing goes against the TOS of the game anyway).
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Well this round of banning doesn't seem to be related to any in game exploit issues. Rather people directly running scripting programs. Scripting programs like AHK are capable of watching screens for pixel changes which make botting possible. I do 100% support developers insta banning windows players using such software. The only semi legit program I can think of has such ability is AHK, and I would rather see the developer simply refuse to let the game load while those games are running. It seems cleaner then banning people after the fact. If they can detect it they can surely pop up a warning and refuse to load.

Still there are plenty of programs out there that they can't predict... and ways for the dirty pro botters to get around such things. I mean AHK it self is open source and for the pro botters making thousands a month of botting I know they have already built their own versions designed to do a better job of hiding. Its an ongoing war.... which has escelated to insta bans I guess.
 
ChadD said:
Well this round of banning doesn't seem to be related to any in game exploit issues. Rather people directly running scripting programs. Scripting programs like AHK are capable of watching screens for pixel changes which make botting possible. I do 100% support developers insta banning windows players using such software. The only semi legit program I can think of has such ability is AHK, and I would rather see the developer simply refuse to let the game load while those games are running. It seems cleaner then banning people after the fact. If they can detect it they can surely pop up a warning and refuse to load.
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Bungie themselves already admitted that was not the case - innocent people were banned and, thankfully, overturned, despite their "policy".

I agree with you, I don't want to see hackers and botters running around but that is a bit of a different argument than utilizing an exploit like, for instance, the infamous "loot cave" in the first Destiny.
 
Hmm, this reminds me that I likely need to turn malwarebytes completely off. It played mega havoc with the demo, was mostly unplayable. I wonder if any of those mistaken bans were of antivirus type software.
 
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