Hundreds Banned From Destiny 2 PC

By this silly logic the hackers that grabbed all the equifax data did nothing wrong. If equifax can't patch fast enough then clearly they intended all that data to be public.

Exploiting is exploiting >.< Its abusing something in a game for gain beyond what was intended. Of course in such cases companies need to be careful not to ban people that happened into a primo farming area or something... but if they can show X player ran the same 1 min of content for 20 hours that is 100% warning and if its repeated ban time.

In this case we aren't talking about exploits anyway. It seems clear to me this early in they where targeting people running macro/scripting software... and caught a few people that had legit reasons to have such software running. Or due to some out cry at least managed to convince the developer that their scripting software was legit just rebinding volume keys ect. lmao
 
Another reason not to buy destiny 2. Like I needed more? Wow they really are making this easy.
 
mope54 said:
or not use the 3rd party programs until it's resolved?
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I'd rather not bother changing my habits and preferences to suit their agenda and instead vote with my wallet, as it's not their place to tell me what truly legal applications I can or cannot run on my computer. That's not what I'm paying them $60 to do!

If Bungie wants to attempt to direct and restrict the public ecosystem at that level, maybe they should simply keep their IP on consoles where that level of control is naturally built-in and already assumed.

Destiny 2 will now definitely be a pass for multiple PCs and the PS4 in this household:stop:
 
Chupachup said:
That's not what I'm paying them $60 to do!
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I would imagine a good number of people paid them to play a clean pvp game. There are no major PvP online games I can think of that don't watch for scripting programs by logging what you are running on your PC. If you don't like that you should likely stay way from online games completely.

All the hub bub about them watching for Frame per second counting Overlays, voice comms programs, screen recording software ect are all BS Fud.

They reversed some of these bans, but I would bet good money they just unbanned a bunch of players that where running scripting software and likely fully deserved the boot.
 
Krenum said:
Im talking about Halo being advertised as a PC game when it was first announced. Later when the Xbox was slated to launch, Bungie scrapped the launch of Halo on the PC and put it on Xbox instead. Probably because the Xbox did not have a Flagship title for their console at the time of launch. $$$:oldman:
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The original Halo WAS released on PC. A short time later, Microsoft purchased Bungie with the intent of it developing content solely for the Xbox platform. Prior to Bungie's sale/purchase, Halo 2 had been slated for release to both PC and Xbox. After Microsoft acquired Bungie, PC development of the title was shelved and resources directed at a sole release to Xbox- much to the consternation of the player base at the time.
 
Chupachup said:
The original Halo WAS released on PC. A short time later, Microsoft purchased Bungie with the intent of it developing content solely for the Xbox platform. Prior to Bungie's sale/purchase, Halo 2 had been slated for release to both PC and Xbox. After Microsoft acquired Bungie, PC development of the title was shelved and resources directed at a sole release to Xbox- much to the consternation of the player base at the time.
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You timeline of events is incredibly wrong. Microsoft bought Bungie in 2000. Halo: CE released in 2001. The PC version didn't come out until 2003. Halo 2 was never announced as a multiplatform title. It was announced as a Xbox exclusive, specifically as the title to push Xbox Live. Halo 2 was announced a year before CE came to the PC. The PC version of Halo 2 was not announced until 2006.
 
ChadD said:
I would imagine a good number of people paid them to play a clean pvp game. There are no major PvP online games I can think of that don't watch for scripting programs by logging what you are running on your PC. If you don't like that you should likely stay way from online games completely.

All the hub bub about them watching for Frame per second counting Overlays, voice comms programs, screen recording software ect are all BS Fud.

They reversed some of these bans, but I would bet good money they just unbanned a bunch of players that where running scripting software and likely fully deserved the boot.
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Let them monitor, within reason, all they want. When they start telling potential owners that they cannot have legal applications, having nothing to do with botting or cheating, running on their systems? Then developers/publishers have crossed the line!

I've been playing online PvE/PvP since the early days of dial-up and more than understand the problem with hacks and cheats. I've also learned to deal with them without resorting to the "snowflake" mentality where more protections need to be provided versus developers actually tightening and checking their code before rushing it to market by X deadline.

So, I generally stay away from publishers and games that often do just as much harm to the gaming environment as the issues they try to prevent by encumbering their products with weighty DRM and adding ban automation without providing players with detailed reasoning behind their banning and/or allowing players adequate recourse to attempt to reverse a ban.

No skin off my back to pass and if publishers don't see the revenue they hoped for maybe they'll rethink their approach. If they're happy with their returns and don't care about a "small" segment of their base being both dumped and enraged, so beit.
 
Derangel said:
You timeline of events is incredibly wrong. Microsoft bought Bungie in 2000. Halo: CE released in 2001. The PC version didn't come out until 2003. Halo 2 was never announced as a multiplatform title. It was announced as a Xbox exclusive, specifically as the title to push Xbox Live. Halo 2 was announced a year before CE came to the PC. The PC version of Halo 2 was not announced until 2006.
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Ahh.. true true on the dates! Apologies...Chalk it up to a 32hr day and a cold to boot;)
 
ChadD said:
I would imagine a good number of people paid them to play a clean pvp game. There are no major PvP online games I can think of that don't watch for scripting programs by logging what you are running on your PC. If you don't like that you should likely stay way from online games completely.

All the hub bub about them watching for Frame per second counting Overlays, voice comms programs, screen recording software ect are all BS Fud.

They reversed some of these bans, but I would bet good money they just unbanned a bunch of players that where running scripting software and likely fully deserved the boot.
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Ding ding ding. Misinformation trolling by assholes that got legit banned, then feigning innocence and pretending "All I had running was Afterburner". Bullshit.

And F off, fake outrage bandwagoners that just jump from one manufactured reddit controversy to the next, including the ones that don't even own the game but want to be part of the Big Internet Protest. FOH.

Destiny 2 = piracy proof. Hack proof. Aimbot proof. That's how you do it. Bravo. The one company ArtificialAiming is afraid of getting sued by? Blizzard.

So afterburner's overlay doesn't work - oh well. Acceptable trade-off not to have a game overrun by trolls and hackers.
 
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Chupachup said:
No skin off my back to pass and if publishers don't see the revenue they hoped for maybe they'll rethink their approach. If they're happy with their returns and don't care about a "small" segment of their base being both dumped and enraged, so beit.
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The alternate version of this, where Bungie didn't take a zero tolerance policy to d3d injectors and cvar manipulation? Headlines "Hackers already in Destiny 2". And then the tears flowing about that, and how "Bungie sux they don't care about hakurs".

I only wish EA/DICE took this much a zero tolerance against d3d injectors with Battlefield, or Rockstar with GTA Online. I hope it's the beginning of a trend.
 
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DPI said:
So afterburner's overlay doesn't work - oh well. Acceptable trade-off not to have a game overrun by trolls and hackers.
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Overlay's not working is fine, I have no issue with that, I do take serious issue for a perma ban for having one running.
 
rgMekanic said:
Overlay's not working is fine, I have no issue with that, I do take serious issue for a perma ban for having one running.
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Except that's not what happened.

"The bans were handed down to those who were using tools that pose a threat to the shared ecosystem of the game.

We did not and will not issue any bans for the use of overlays or performance tools. This includes Discord, Xsplit, OBS, RTSS, etc.”
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I wonder if something like sweetFX is causing false positives.
Wargaming had that happen like a month ago.

Although, I would expect the game had to launch before the anti-cheat flagged it.
 
rgMekanic said:
Overlay's not working is fine, I have no issue with that, I do take serious issue for a perma ban for having one running.
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If 400-500 people got banned from a game with 10s of thousands of players... then no one got banned for running overlays. If people where getting banned for running such programs the numbers would be 10x higher. These people that got booted clearly where running scripting software, and crying foul loud enough got them enough attention to get their accounts reinstated.. good on them I guess.

The only people claiming to have been busted for running overlays are the people that got banned. Frankly I don't believe there cries of innocence. I am much more willing to believe that they where actively using software that was watching d3d space for pixel information... to automate their play. It is very hard for developers to tell the difference between software doing that and injecting a simple overlay. With any new game there is big money in power leveling accounts as fast as you can and selling them. Right now you can go to shadier parts of the net and find leveled up destiny2 accounts. Which means there are no doubt botters out there at work on this game. I would be surprised if the "pro" botters haven't already found away to bot level. At least it sounds like the developers methods should keep PvP game play relatively clean. People botting and selling accounts at least doesn't effect everyones game experience. (I haven't played the destiny games... if it has an in game market economy I guess even pve botting could be effected).
 
^ I was minding my own business playing Destiny 2, and accidentally opened up Cheat Engine and gave myself 999 light, and accidentally applied the changes to the current game -- and an hour later I got banned?!?! WTF?! BS, Bungie!
 
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Krenum said:
Im talking about Halo being advertised as a PC game when it was first announced. Later when the Xbox was slated to launch, Bungie scrapped the launch of Halo on the PC and put it on Xbox instead. Probably because the Xbox did not have a Flagship title for their console at the time of launch. $$$:oldman:
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If you go back even further, Halo was originally for the Mac only, then later changed to PC before moving to xbox. So, playing devil's advocate, it was never meant to be on PC in the first place.
 
ChadD said:
As per Bungies David Shaw "We don't ban for that tho. That's internet BS" sounds about right to me.

A small handful got banned. So there is no way everyone using vent/team speak/or FPS overlays are getting banned. If that was the case damn near every PC user would have got the boot.

This is the typical cheating bastards that fire up every game day one looking for ways to exploit shit.

Windows isn't some secure sandboxed app OS... bungie knows what you are running on your machine. They are not banning people running non-cheat programs.

About the only semi legit thing I could possibly understand here is someone claiming they got banned for running autohotkey or something which they are using to power media keys, or some other non game related scripting... of course its hard to prove your not using a program like that to bot. ;) Companies will boot people in such cases even if you argue really strongly that you aren't writing game scripts.... anyone stupid enough to be firing up a game during its initial launch that has made a rather large point of wanting to crack down on cheats early with something like autohotkey running... is a moron and deserves to be out the 70-100 bucks they spent on the game.

My suspicion is the majority if not all of these banns where deserved. Perhaps a couple are due to the odd PC "power users" that doesn't realise what some of their "non-cheat" software like autohotkey is capable of and may honestly not understand why they got the boot. That is where I think Bungie may have Fd up... instead of having a hard instant ban, they could have a Red Flag, yellow flag type setup. If there software sees memory space for objects ect that are clearly cheats in progress instant ban... for having a cheat level software loaded in your ram, perhaps a yellow card before the ejection from the game.
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I am curious about what cheating is being done with autohot key or how. And I don't think that devs should ban its use.

Merc1138 said:
Connecting a XIM or similar device to your PC and then the mouse and keyboard to that, to activate the built in auto aim for multiplayer is indeed using a known exploit for the purpose of cheating.
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Don't you think it should be the responsibility of the developers to just make it so you cant do this or make it fair, IE give the auto aim to everyone.

STrAYeR said:
I agree. If the devs know about exploits and don't patch them that's the devs problem. I think exploiting is annoying as hell but do not consider it cheating unless it gives you unlimited health/ammo.
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Me too, and there is rational to this I will post below.

ChadD said:
Tomayto Tomahto. If these people got banned that fast... 99% chance they where running macro/scripting programs. There is a far to many gamers that believe macroing up things like rapid fire / skill combo keys is ok... despite damn near every Online game developer in the world clearly stating its a no no. Some online games provide rudimentary in game scripting which imo is the best way to combat that. For instance games from Cryptic, and Rift have a basic scripting language that will execute commands, where the developer can control what can fire off simultaneously and which can't main skills can be grouped but won't fire multiples with one press, but one per press. Its a nice in between imo... basic scripting which isn't a real advantage but can help disabled people ect compete.... but nothing that grants a major advantage that has players complaining about playing against bots. Still it means in such games serious PvPers need to take a bit of time to understand the in game scripting cause every little advantage right... things like external AHK that is capable of watching screen pixels and such to allow full botting are a no no. (not many people are aware of how powerful something like AHK can be in games... auto activating key presses when a specific pixel lights up a specific colour ect. AHK can be used not to worry about health / buff / target locks ect it doesn't take a crack programmer to make that happen its pretty simple scripting)

Not to mention full on scripting with things like AHK... ya find the "exploit" area where there is 2-3 easy bosses or a waves of trash to farm ect... then script a simple route and walk away for a few hours to watch some netflix. Its an issue in every MMO. Yes the developers added those areas... but that doesn't mean you can bot it over night while your out with the wife. :)

I know a few people have mentioned MS new anti cheating announcements... as good as that is(or not) it still won't cover things like AHK so I would expect stories like this aren't going away any time soon.
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ChadD said:
By this silly logic the hackers that grabbed all the equifax data did nothing wrong. If equifax can't patch fast enough then clearly they intended all that data to be public.

Exploiting is exploiting >.< Its abusing something in a game for gain beyond what was intended. Of course in such cases companies need to be careful not to ban people that happened into a primo farming area or something... but if they can show X player ran the same 1 min of content for 20 hours that is 100% warning and if its repeated ban time.

In this case we aren't talking about exploits anyway. It seems clear to me this early in they where targeting people running macro/scripting software... and caught a few people that had legit reasons to have such software running. Or due to some out cry at least managed to convince the developer that their scripting software was legit just rebinding volume keys ect. lmao
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There has to be a point where the developers are responsible for their own bad code. The problem is video game programmers will often use the blocking of cheating as a way to be lazy in programming. And this creates a massive problem because it leaves an exploit open in a very blurry way. If you leave an exploit open long enough you know what happens? People start to consider it part of the game. They even consider the exploitation to be a skill. Then people find ways to automate that skill. The problem is its nearly impossible to stop the automation or exploitation or even catch it. So the point is the developers should take a stand and correct the issue in the code.

We have enough cheating to deal with in video games we shouldn't have to be bogged down with arguing over if quick scoping and AWP is an exploit or a cheat or a skill. We shouldn't have to worry about macros that automate that process. The devs should just code the product to behave as intended no matter what scripts people write. It shouldn't matter if someone macros a rapid fire, the gun should be restricted in the game code to a maximum fire rate, and there is not excuse for not doing that.
 
Krenum said:
But it exists in the game with or without the developers knowing about it, so its part of the game, intended or not. Like the Matrix, Neo wasn't cheating, he just knew how to exploit the program & its laws that already existed.
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If you think you're Neo when cheating, think again. Most others play with skill and only losers cheat.
 
Probably a YouSuck experience aggregator in order to ensure a proper gaming experience placed in by the Russians. The rabbit hole gets deeper.
 
rudy said:
I am curious about what cheating is being done with autohot key or how. And I don't think that devs should ban its use.

Don't you think it should be the responsibility of the developers to just make it so you cant do this or make it fair, IE give the auto aim to everyone.

Me too, and there is rational to this I will post below.

There has to be a point where the developers are responsible for their own bad code. The problem is video game programmers will often use the blocking of cheating as a way to be lazy in programming. And this creates a massive problem because it leaves an exploit open in a very blurry way. If you leave an exploit open long enough you know what happens? People start to consider it part of the game. They even consider the exploitation to be a skill. Then people find ways to automate that skill. The problem is its nearly impossible to stop the automation or exploitation or even catch it. So the point is the developers should take a stand and correct the issue in the code.

We have enough cheating to deal with in video games we shouldn't have to be bogged down with arguing over if quick scoping and AWP is an exploit or a cheat or a skill. We shouldn't have to worry about macros that automate that process. The devs should just code the product to behave as intended no matter what scripts people write. It shouldn't matter if someone macros a rapid fire, the gun should be restricted in the game code to a maximum fire rate, and there is not excuse for not doing that.
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AHK is used by bot runners to run the same 1-2 min of content over and over and power level. Imagine someone with 2 machines sitting there running accounts through the same couple min runs. AHK looks for X color pixel at Y location when it see that it pushes a sequence of buttons. It then waits until the next pixel trigger ect ect. There is no economical way for a developer to stop that behaviour. But there are guys doing exactly that in plenty of different games and after a few days of bot running they sell the accounts off at a premium. Its exactly the type of behaviour that happens around the launch of every online game with a leveling system. I don't think destiny has a market but AHK is used in online games with in game markets in the same sorts of ways... just searching 5-10 items or what have you every X number of seconds for days on end. This can be easy for developers to spot or insanely hard... it depends on the botter in question. The pros will program random searchs, purposely program a few random misspellings and randomise the wait times between searches and even how many seconds pass before they pull the trigger on low listings ect. All because experience has taught them that developers do watch and a bot that searchs the same 3 words every 10s on the nose get noticed.

When it comes to actual game game play... AHK can be used to again watch for on screen pixels, and auto trigger keyboard/mouse input. So in many online games with multiple skills you can watch your own hud for health/buffs ect. In games PvP games with lots of buff / debuff mechanics having AHK watch for debuff markers on your hud and instantly activating clears ect is of course cheating.

The only way to stop scripting is to shut down ALL D3D reading and injection. I know people love their overlays but to be honest any game that allows them can be fairly easily botted for both PvE and PvP.

As for exploits where we are talking about poor design sure I don't disagree with you if you are talking about the build of the month type stuff in games... that isn't exploiting at all its just game meta. Online games breed whiners that get attached to their builds of the month and when the meta moves on they are often the first ones screaming exploit. :)

As for rapid fires you are semi correct. Sure the devs can implement stuff that can make scripting a bit less of an issue... but in every game there is always a bit of twitch to the game play unless your talking Civ or something. :) Pixel reading capable scripting is clearly an unintended advantage.

This whole situation to me sounds like this dev did the right thing... and something every dev should be doing in shutting down the flow of their games D3D input/output. Which has angered a vocal chunk of every new online games community... the Pro botters. I have no doubt they tried their best to figure out how to best automate account leveling for profit and are likely the ones yelling the loudest about MA MA Afterburner got me banned crap. ;)

Based on your question about AHK though... and I did mention it before. I don't doubt a small handful of people may have got banns running programs like AHK. Lots of people use AHK for stuff like media key mapping ect its a great windows program... just when it comes to online gaming it is far more powerful then I think most people using it understand. The pros know exactly how it works though. I have known a few people in a few games over the years that could make AHK do things most users couldn't imagine. I knew a guy that had scripted a PVE botting run in one game that was over an hour long per run though, it waited at random points waiting for pixel info ect. A dev watching his behaviour would see nothing out of the ordinary every repeated key press had a window of randomised input time set... and he even had it sending chat msgs telling friends he was AFK for a few min to piss ect. (as a lark he even had his bot chatting for him for awhile... which while funny did get him more attention then was wise) lmao
 
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mysticdrew said:
This kid doesn't look like he's cheating, he may be but from my perspective he wasn't.
Secondly, bungie just updated their statement and admitted there were unjustified bans and people were unbanned.
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/46426
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It looks fishy. He pops from headshot to another very fast and accurately and later in the game the feed blackens and he's looking to other screens.
 
Chupachup said:
Let them monitor, within reason, all they want. When they start telling potential owners that they cannot have legal applications, having nothing to do with botting or cheating, running on their systems? Then developers/publishers have crossed the line!

I've been playing online PvE/PvP since the early days of dial-up and more than understand the problem with hacks and cheats. I've also learned to deal with them without resorting to the "snowflake" mentality where more protections need to be provided versus developers actually tightening and checking their code before rushing it to market by X deadline.

So, I generally stay away from publishers and games that often do just as much harm to the gaming environment as the issues they try to prevent by encumbering their products with weighty DRM and adding ban automation without providing players with detailed reasoning behind their banning and/or allowing players adequate recourse to attempt to reverse a ban.

No skin off my back to pass and if publishers don't see the revenue they hoped for maybe they'll rethink their approach. If they're happy with their returns and don't care about a "small" segment of their base being both dumped and enraged, so beit.
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I wonder why they ‘dont’ run their game in a sandbox env. Think they could build something like that now.
 
Sadly a lot of the software used to catch cheaters also has a percentage of false positives. Blizzard is bad about banning people falsely and denying an appeal without review.
 
B00nie said:
It looks fishy. He pops from headshot to another very fast and accurately and later in the game the feed blackens and he's looking to other screens.
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Hard to say, I have a friend who has thousands of hours in FPS’ since Q1 and before days (shit, guess I do too, but I suck at them) and his mouse is setup a very specific way. He gets banned lol from CS or whatever because he’s freaking good, remember when the first shot out of the AK had no bullet drop and did 105 dmg or something for a headshot? He would snipe with that from across maps, sure looked like cheating and wasn’t. Not sayin that neckbeard in the video wasn’t cheating, but who knows. Oh, his mouse was like no or really toned down vertical, low horizontal with high mouse accel. I could never play on his machine. Couldn’t drive his 500whp car either...that clutch engagement!
 
From what I'm reading now, some of the bans may be carry overs from people who cheated in the beta. That's why they got banned right upon logging in. Everything is still speculation though.
 
Seventyfive said:
Some of my friends and i were thinking of buying once it goes on sale just to screw around in PVE but given the decline in the console population, I'm wondering what kind of longevity it has...
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From what I hear, it only has about an 8-12 hour co-op campaign. Sounds pretty crappy for a $60 game that you could get banned for nothing from. Might be worth $20, but no more than that. However this is Acti-Blizzard we are talking about here and they are famous for never putting their games on sale the first few years they are out. Might be a long wait.
 
B00nie said:
It looks fishy. He pops from headshot to another very fast and accurately and later in the game the feed blackens and he's looking to other screens.
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I actually caught that as well before even reading your post. there was 2 or 3 moments were I went that almost had to be snapping. I mean he might just be good though so im not ruling anything against him. He also should get banned for having like 132 tabs running in the web browser lolol
 
Seventyfive said:
From what I'm reading now, some of the bans may be carry overs from people who cheated in the beta. That's why they got banned right upon logging in. Everything is still speculation though.
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Blizzard has Data bases of all customer info. I got banned in World of warcraft once upon a time, 1-2 years later I went and re-bought the game with the same Credit card from bnet. After about 30-45 min of playing, I got banned again for no reason. It took me 3 weeks to appeal the ban which got approved with a "we are sorry, our systems flagged your credit card".
 
Krenum said:
How so? If the game has a bug in it, technically its playing the game as intended isn't it?
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Ex-ploit

2.
a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system, typically for malicious purposes

That doesn't sound very "intended" to me, unless they are deliberately sabotaging their own product (not likely).
 
rudy said:
Don't you think it should be the responsibility of the developers to just make it so you cant do this or make it fair, IE give the auto aim to everyone.
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You're close. I think that crap shouldn't be in the game at all. Can't exploit an auto-aim stat on weapons if it doesn't exist.
 
HorseproofBacon said:
Ex-ploit

2.
a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system, typically for malicious purposes

That doesn't sound very "intended" to me, unless they are deliberately sabotaging their own product (not likely).
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"A flaw in a computer system" exactly, so if it ships with a flaw, and players take advantage of the flaw, then it's not cheating because you're not introducing anything to the software environment that wasn't already present when the software was created.
 
If i paid $60 for something, and got banned, i should get my money back. They should make it like the IOS wrong password setup. First offence, cant long in for minutes, 2nd offence cant long in for hours, third offense cant log in for days. It shouldnt take more than a few tries to figure out why you are getting kicked.
 
This is extremely frustrating. Reason being is that some innocent users were surely banned in an effort to catch cheaters. Its a stretch, but how many of you guys want to be arrested for theft, sent to jail, then released after hiring a lawyer? All because the cops arrested everyone leaving the bank! They caught the robbers but made life hell for alot of people just going about their day.
 
Krenum said:
"A flaw in a computer system" exactly, so if it ships with a flaw, and players take advantage of the flaw, then it's not cheating because you're not introducing anything to the software environment that wasn't already present when the software was created.
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You just logically made it ok to hack every computer system in the world. There is a flaw in your code I can exploit it and take your data... so you deserved it.

Again we are muddying what was going on here. They where not accused of finding a sweet farming spot... or a boss that drops the wrong loot or something. This has to do with people running known scripting/botting software.
 
greyboxer said:
This is extremely frustrating. Reason being is that some innocent users were surely banned in an effort to catch cheaters. Its a stretch, but how many of you guys want to be arrested for theft, sent to jail, then released after hiring a lawyer? All because the cops arrested everyone leaving the bank! They caught the robbers but made life hell for alot of people just going about their day.
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Well that isn't exactly right though. They banned what 400 people of the supposed 1.2 million players of this game. That is a stupid small number. They didn't arrest all the people walking into the bank... they arrested all the morons walking into the bank carrying a firearm.
 
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