On my calibrated ZR24w I can differentiate shadows in Photoshop down to 1,1,1 RGB. So no problem with shadow details. Likewise highlights up to 254,254,254. Black level I haven't measured, but not relevant to my photographic usage. Calibrates nicely with i1Display 2 and Eye-One Match (but don't use the settings at that review site). Good photo monitor, unless you need wide gamut. Only complaints - slow warm up time, and mine has some very faint blotches. Overall, better than my old Apple Cinema Displays.
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HP ZR24w
- Thread starter odindusk
- Start date
On my calibrated ZR24w I can differentiate shadows in Photoshop down to 1,1,1 RGB. So no problem with shadow details. Likewise highlights up to 254,254,254. Black level I haven't measured, but not relevant to my photographic usage. Calibrates nicely with i1Display 2 and Eye-One Match (but don't use the settings at that review site). Good photo monitor, unless you need wide gamut. Only complaints - slow warm up time, and mine has some very faint blotches. Overall, better than my old Apple Cinema Displays.
If you are on windows head to your Control Panel and select "Color Management". Then move to the "All Profiles" Tab on top. Find the "Add" button and browse to where you saved the profile.
For a separate topic: There is a local retailer with a bunch of these off lease and on sale for under $200. I have the new Asus PA246Q and love IPS so much it is so tempting to have another IPS for the sake of similar color spaces. Should I get one for the price it's at? I fully intend to make sure there are no dead pixels and pick the one least cosmetically affected. Opinions?
Thanks. I'm on XP so I had to download something.If you are on windows head to your Control Panel and select "Color Management". Then move to the "All Profiles" Tab on top. Find the "Add" button and browse to where you saved the profile.
The TFT Central ICC profile (for factory RGB, version 2) sure has a lot of green. Is that normal? Maybe I should get my own calibration kit.
If you are on windows head to your Control Panel and select "Color Management". Then move to the "All Profiles" Tab on top. Find the "Add" button and browse to where you saved the profile.
For a separate topic: There is a local retailer with a bunch of these off lease and on sale for under $200. I have the new Asus PA246Q and love IPS so much it is so tempting to have another IPS for the sake of similar color spaces. Should I get one for the price it's at? I fully intend to make sure there are no dead pixels and pick the one least cosmetically affected. Opinions?
w0oT! Share the info love mang...
You should absolutely pick one up at $200 it's a steal. You might even be able to convince HP to extend the warranty to you.
Only time I saw any tint issues on mine was from the ATI driver issues where the stock setting was 6600k instead of the 6500k, you of course could fix that in the color settings in the CCC. My current drivers didn't have that issue.
I just got one and so far love it. No backlight bleed. Extremely uniform screen. I don't notice and tint issues. In Firefox on a New Tab window it kinda looks like the righthand side for about an 1 or 2 is darker, but when looking at a totally white screen using DPT I don't see it. So I thinks it's either Firefox or my eyes playing some optical tricks on me. Great monitor.
I picked up one of these today. Initially I thought I was extremely lucky... no dead/stuck pixels, no visible backlight bleeding and what looks to be a pretty damn uniform screen...
...and then I turned off my music and was reading in silence when I heard one hell of a buzz. It's barely audible at zero brightness and plenty audible at 50 brightness and above. The panel on this thing is so damned good so I told myself I would try just dealing with the buzz but I couldn't even last a few hours. Even when in a game I can hear it. Hell, since my monitor is pretty close to the corner of a room I can hear it just outside my room down the hall. Argh.
Guess I'm gonna go for an exchange... but damn, moving from a Samsung 226BW to this, I must say, what a change. Very nice display (sans buzzing).
...and then I turned off my music and was reading in silence when I heard one hell of a buzz. It's barely audible at zero brightness and plenty audible at 50 brightness and above. The panel on this thing is so damned good so I told myself I would try just dealing with the buzz but I couldn't even last a few hours. Even when in a game I can hear it. Hell, since my monitor is pretty close to the corner of a room I can hear it just outside my room down the hall. Argh.
Guess I'm gonna go for an exchange... but damn, moving from a Samsung 226BW to this, I must say, what a change. Very nice display (sans buzzing).
prollyneedhelp
n00b
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2008
- Messages
- 32
Also picked one of these up today locally... Goodbye TN; never going back. It's like a completely new computing experience.
Awesome purchase in my book.
No issues with dead pixels, backlight bleed, or buzzing that I've noticed.
EDIT: Ugh... after more use I've noticed 2 dead pixels that I must have previously glanced over... bummed now.
EDIT2: Exchanged the monitor. New one has no flaws.
Now I'm looking into calibration stuff...
Are the publicly-available ICC profiles at TFTcentral worth using?
I couldn't tell a difference between defaults and their ICC profiles with my naked eye.
Awesome purchase in my book.
No issues with dead pixels, backlight bleed, or buzzing that I've noticed.
EDIT: Ugh... after more use I've noticed 2 dead pixels that I must have previously glanced over... bummed now.
EDIT2: Exchanged the monitor. New one has no flaws.
Now I'm looking into calibration stuff...
Are the publicly-available ICC profiles at TFTcentral worth using?
I couldn't tell a difference between defaults and their ICC profiles with my naked eye.
Last edited:
Tamahagane
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 89
It's commonly known as an Anti Glare Coating, but what it really is, is a Grain Coating, or Grain Filter, or Grain Sheet if you prefer.
It's simply just a thin grainy layer of plastic.
What it does is this:
That is what it does, and that is the strange effect that it causes.
The grainy layer of plastic prevents light and colors from properly and freely travelling out of the monitor, resulting in a faded, darker, muddied picture.
Some grain sheets are more extreme than others, but they all have the same effect, to varying degrees of severity.
Other than distorting brightness and colors, the grain coating often (unless the coat is very light) makes it difficult on the eyes, because the eyes focus first and primarily on the coating which is a more or less uniform pattern, and is closer to the viewer than the actual picture which is behind the coating, thus the eyes automatically settle in on the grainy pattern by default.
It also makes small, fine details (such as found in text) more difficult for the eyes (if the coating is severe), as the photons are bent into random directions and reflects back in to the monitor and into themselves, instead of shining straight out as they normally would if there was no grainy filter in the way. To better understand this, think of perfectly clear see-thru piece of glass, like a house window. And then imagine someone shining with a huge flashlight from one side to the other. Now imagine the same scenario but the glass having the surface of that of a low-grit sandpaper. Light will not shine thru as it did before. It will now bounce around and scatter, instead of shining directly thru the glass.
What the grain coating does, is absorb and trap light, both that coming from the inside of the monitor itself (most important), and that also coming from outside of it hitting the surface of the coating and bouncing around against it.
In contrast, what a monitor without a grainy layer of plastic does, is that it (simply having a perfectly clear layer of plastic instead of a grainy one), allows light and colors to shine naturally from the display, while it deflects incoming light away from the monitor.
The only time the term "Anti Glare Coating" is acceptable is when you are referring to a monitor used in an office-like setting, or some other type of workspace. In any other case it's not an "anti glare coating" - it's simply just a grainy layer of plastic.
The only time the "coating" itself is acceptable to exist at all, is inside an office, or other such place, where you have no control over the lighting conditions, and thus actually may need the coating.
If you're using the monitor at home, you naturally do not want to be forced to have the muddy plastic layer, as your home is a controlled environment by you, that you can modify at will. We have always controlled the lighting conditions, and made sure they weren't placed improperly where they could shine into monitors or TVs. When we watch movies we often turn the light off completely.
AG needs to be nothing more than an available extra option for corporations and special groups of people who actually must use it.
There's no justifiable defense, whatsoever, for AG being the default in panels as it is now.
It has no place there, for 99.99% of people.
It is illogical, it is irrational, it is stupid, and it's flat out retarded.
Hamster, normal:
Hamster with AG:
Last edited:
Whoisthisreally
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,143
luluthemonk
n00b
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2011
- Messages
- 55
Can't post a new thread in the deals forum, so I thought I would share it here:
http://www.macmall.com/p/HP-Monitors/product~dpno~8086055~pdp.gbbaghb
$349.99
Rebate valid from 05/03/2011 to 05/31/2011
Free shipping
CB from ebates and FW
Hope I didn't violate any rules :x
http://www.macmall.com/p/HP-Monitors/product~dpno~8086055~pdp.gbbaghb
$349.99
Rebate valid from 05/03/2011 to 05/31/2011
Free shipping
CB from ebates and FW
Hope I didn't violate any rules :x
It's commonly known as an Anti Glare Coating, but what it really is, is a Grain Coating, or Grain Filter, or Grain Sheet if you prefer.
It's simply just a thin grainy layer of plastic.
What it does is this:
That is what it does, and that is the strange effect that it causes.
The grainy layer of plastic prevents light and colors from properly and freely travelling out of the monitor, resulting in a faded, darker, muddied picture.
Some grain sheets are more extreme than others, but they all have the same effect, to varying degrees of severity.
Other than distorting brightness and colors, the grain coating often (unless the coat is very light) makes it difficult on the eyes, because the eyes focus first and primarily on the coating which is a more or less uniform pattern, and is closer to the viewer than the actual picture which is behind the coating, thus the eyes automatically settle in on the grainy pattern by default.
It also makes small, fine details (such as found in text) more difficult for the eyes (if the coating is severe), as the photons are bent into random directions and reflects back in to the monitor and into themselves, instead of shining straight out as they normally would if there was no grainy filter in the way. To better understand this, think of perfectly clear see-thru piece of glass, like a house window. And then imagine someone shining with a huge flashlight from one side to the other. Now imagine the same scenario but the glass having the surface of that of a low-grit sandpaper. Light will not shine thru as it did before. It will now bounce around and scatter, instead of shining directly thru the glass.
What the grain coating does, is absorb and trap light, both that coming from the inside of the monitor itself (most important), and that also coming from outside of it hitting the surface of the coating and bouncing around against it.
In contrast, what a monitor without a grainy layer of plastic does, is that it (simply having a perfectly clear layer of plastic instead of a grainy one), allows light and colors to shine naturally from the display, while it deflects incoming light away from the monitor.
The only time the term "Anti Glare Coating" is acceptable is when you are referring to a monitor used in an office-like setting, or some other type of workspace. In any other case it's not an "anti glare coating" - it's simply just a grainy layer of plastic.
The only time the "coating" itself is acceptable to exist at all, is inside an office, or other such place, where you have no control over the lighting conditions, and thus actually may need the coating.
If you're using the monitor at home, you naturally do not want to be forced to have the muddy plastic layer, as your home is a controlled environment by you, that you can modify at will. We have always controlled the lighting conditions, and made sure they weren't placed improperly where they could shine into monitors or TVs. When we watch movies we often turn the light off completely.
AG needs to be nothing more than an available extra option for corporations and special groups of people who actually must use it.
There's no justifiable defense, whatsoever, for AG being the default in panels as it is now.
It has no place there, for 99.99% of people.
It is illogical, it is irrational, it is stupid, and it's flat out retarded.
Hamster, normal:
Hamster with AG:
this AG coating is hard in HP ZR24W ?
u have a PVT
prollyneedhelp
n00b
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2008
- Messages
- 32
Thanks for the heads up!
I just bought mine from their retail store a couple days ago. I hope they honor the rebate even though I didn't buy online.
Mailed off my rebate today. I've been stiffed on rebates before, even after sending proper information multiple times. We'll see how this one goes...
And a little update, I've logged 23 hours on the monitor (via OSD) now and I have to say, an IPS panel is one of the best upgrades I've ever done computer-wise.
I'm considering the HP ZR24W, but am concerned that my eyes might not
like the anti-glare coating.
As far as I can figure out, MacMall only has 2 brick&mortar stores,
both in California. Do any other B&M stores carry the HP ZR24W?
(I have Best Buy, Sears, Target, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max, etc.)
Are there other models that use the same LM240WU7 panel?
What is a good test (that I can do in a retail store) to see if the
AG bothers me?
like the anti-glare coating.
As far as I can figure out, MacMall only has 2 brick&mortar stores,
both in California. Do any other B&M stores carry the HP ZR24W?
(I have Best Buy, Sears, Target, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max, etc.)
Are there other models that use the same LM240WU7 panel?
What is a good test (that I can do in a retail store) to see if the
AG bothers me?
If you have easy access to the MacMall stores, buy one and try it at home. Real world testing is going to decide for you. Just check the return policy, would hate to find out they have a restocking fee.
BrunoPuntzJones
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2001
- Messages
- 1,337
50 brightness sounds way too high. I think most folks are running 0 for brightness...
I run mine at 40, so each person is different as are each monitor.
The only retail chain that I know of which consistently has non-Apple IPS panels is Microcenter, and they generally only carry the Dell u2711. It has the typical AG coating, but its smaller pixels than the 24" render the effect slightly differently -- some think worse, some better.
This post is misleading because distortion becomes minimal to none as you get closer to LCD panel. Try an wrap AG film around your silicon spay can and take pics with an without film instead of spreading FUD.It's commonly known as an Anti Glare Coating, but what it really is, is a Grain Coating, or Grain Filter, or Grain Sheet if you prefer.
It's simply just a thin grainy layer of plastic.
What it does is this:
That is what it does, and that is the strange effect that it causes.
The grainy layer of plastic prevents light and colors from properly and freely travelling out of the monitor, resulting in a faded, darker, muddied picture.
Some grain sheets are more extreme than others, but they all have the same effect, to varying degrees of severity.
Other than distorting brightness and colors, the grain coating often (unless the coat is very light) makes it difficult on the eyes, because the eyes focus first and primarily on the coating which is a more or less uniform pattern, and is closer to the viewer than the actual picture which is behind the coating, thus the eyes automatically settle in on the grainy pattern by default.
It also makes small, fine details (such as found in text) more difficult for the eyes (if the coating is severe), as the photons are bent into random directions and reflects back in to the monitor and into themselves, instead of shining straight out as they normally would if there was no grainy filter in the way. To better understand this, think of perfectly clear see-thru piece of glass, like a house window. And then imagine someone shining with a huge flashlight from one side to the other. Now imagine the same scenario but the glass having the surface of that of a low-grit sandpaper. Light will not shine thru as it did before. It will now bounce around and scatter, instead of shining directly thru the glass.
What the grain coating does, is absorb and trap light, both that coming from the inside of the monitor itself (most important), and that also coming from outside of it hitting the surface of the coating and bouncing around against it.
In contrast, what a monitor without a grainy layer of plastic does, is that it (simply having a perfectly clear layer of plastic instead of a grainy one), allows light and colors to shine naturally from the display, while it deflects incoming light away from the monitor.
The only time the term "Anti Glare Coating" is acceptable is when you are referring to a monitor used in an office-like setting, or some other type of workspace. In any other case it's not an "anti glare coating" - it's simply just a grainy layer of plastic.
The only time the "coating" itself is acceptable to exist at all, is inside an office, or other such place, where you have no control over the lighting conditions, and thus actually may need the coating.
If you're using the monitor at home, you naturally do not want to be forced to have the muddy plastic layer, as your home is a controlled environment by you, that you can modify at will. We have always controlled the lighting conditions, and made sure they weren't placed improperly where they could shine into monitors or TVs. When we watch movies we often turn the light off completely.
AG needs to be nothing more than an available extra option for corporations and special groups of people who actually must use it.
There's no justifiable defense, whatsoever, for AG being the default in panels as it is now.
It has no place there, for 99.99% of people.
It is illogical, it is irrational, it is stupid, and it's flat out retarded.
Hamster, normal:
Hamster with AG:
Tamahagane
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 89
a. Actually it's not misleading -- it's exactly the opposite to being misleading.
b. Not my photos.
c. Those pics demonstrates the basic nature of what the plastic coating actually is and does.
(obviously (!) (shouldn't be necessary to mention, but) when you're watching something through a semi-opaque plastic layer, the larger the distance between the layer and the object the crappier it will look, and likewise in reverse the tighter together they are the better it looks)
Claiming that distortion is minimal just because they (source and film) are close (in an LCD) is #1; missing the point (see "c"), and #2; intentionally or unintentionally encouraging people to think that just because the plastic film is right next to the polarizer the distortion (of the true picture) is nonexistent or very close to being so.
When the truth is that regardless of the intensity of the coat, it is always causing distortion, and even a very light coating does so. The truth is that even though a coating is light, that is to say appears light to your eyes and doesn't make them automatically focus on the coat instead of the picture that's behind it, such a coating is still blocking quite a lot of color, brightness, and clarity.
When the film present, it is always doing what it's doing. In degrees of severity depending on its intensity, yes. But the distortion is always happening.
For those thinking that a lighter AG coating (just because you don't notice the grainy pattern as much compared to a stronger one) doesn't impact the overall picture, see this:
"Strong" coating:
"Light" coating:
No coating / Original:
It always distorts the picture. It is incapable of not doing so.
Even if you don't consciously notice the more directly visible effects caused by AG Coating (such as the sparkly grainy pattern), you are still watching and experiencing all the effects of the coating.
I know though, that some people can't grasp this simple concept.
It's like if you were hiking around with a backpack, and someone had snuck stones or whatever heavy objects in it without your knowing, and you don't know it and you walk around all the same.
. . . . . whether you're aware of the stones or not is irrelevant; they are still causing you to get tired faster, making each your step that much harder, demanding you to rest more often.
But, alas...
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Of the displays that I have, some are glossy and some have AG films (HP ZR24w is one of them), and I much prefer AG over glossy. The slight amount of distortion that it adds to the image is far less noticeable and distracting than reflections from light in the background.
Correct. Most monitors are made for a business setting and not for a basement dweller.
It's more like walking around with a pair of hiking boots. Sure, it can be nice to feel the earth between your toes, but boots actually offer benefits. You hate antiglare coating -- we get it. I like it, and wouldn't consider purchasing a good monitor without it. C'est la vie.
No MacMall nearby, no Microcenter nearby.
Are there any photos that show the problem? With an actual
monitor rather than the can of silicon. The can of silicon
photos are useful for showing the concept, but I'm interested
in seeing how bad the coating is on specific monitors. Given
a choice, I'd choose no antiglare since I can control the
lighting. But after ruling out the 6-bits-plus-dithering
monitors there aren't that many choices left. I need to
figure out which problems will bother me the least.
Are there any photos that show the problem? With an actual
monitor rather than the can of silicon. The can of silicon
photos are useful for showing the concept, but I'm interested
in seeing how bad the coating is on specific monitors. Given
a choice, I'd choose no antiglare since I can control the
lighting. But after ruling out the 6-bits-plus-dithering
monitors there aren't that many choices left. I need to
figure out which problems will bother me the least.
a. Actually it's not misleading -- it's exactly the opposite to being misleading.
b. Not my photos.
c. Those pics demonstrates the basic nature of what the plastic coating actually is and does.
(obviously (!) (shouldn't be necessary to mention, but) when you're watching something through a semi-opaque plastic layer, the larger the distance between the layer and the object the crappier it will look, and likewise in reverse the tighter together they are the better it looks)
Claiming that distortion is minimal just because they (source and film) are close (in an LCD) is #1; missing the point (see "c"), and #2; intentionally or unintentionally encouraging people to think that just because the plastic film is right next to the polarizer the distortion (of the true picture) is nonexistent or very close to being so.
When the truth is that regardless of the intensity of the coat, it is always causing distortion, and even a very light coating does so. The truth is that even though a coating is light, that is to say appears light to your eyes and doesn't make them automatically focus on the coat instead of the picture that's behind it, such a coating is still blocking quite a lot of color, brightness, and clarity.
When the film present, it is always doing what it's doing. In degrees of severity depending on its intensity, yes. But the distortion is always happening.
For those thinking that a lighter AG coating (just because you don't notice the grainy pattern as much compared to a stronger one) doesn't impact the overall picture, see this:
"Strong" coating:
"Light" coating:
No coating / Original:
It always distorts the picture. It is incapable of not doing so.
Even if you don't consciously notice the more directly visible effects caused by AG Coating (such as the sparkly grainy pattern), you are still watching and experiencing all the effects of the coating.
I know though, that some people can't grasp this simple concept.
It's like if you were hiking around with a backpack, and someone had snuck stones or whatever heavy objects in it without your knowing, and you don't know it and you walk around all the same.
. . . . . whether you're aware of the stones or not is irrelevant; they are still causing you to get tired faster, making each your step that much harder, demanding you to rest more often.
But, alas...
I am completely agree with you. If I buy an IPS monitor that cost alot of money, I want a good montior. The AG coating gives pretty much picture trouble. In a normal room, the AG coating degrades the picture a lot more than some reflections.
In the past, I alway's hated LCD's, and loved CRT's only because of the AG coating that gives an LCD a nasty picture. . .
Curse The Sky
n00b
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2010
- Messages
- 46
I just sold a 4:3, 19", TN panel monitor for nearly what I paid for it 5-6 years ago. So, I've decided to replace my current EA231WMi with a ZR24W, considering how cheap they are.
First, the ZR24W is a true 8-bit panel, correct? Last I heard, it was iffy as to whether or not the EA231WMi was 6-bit or 8-bit.
Second, if I find the colors a little off, what do you guys recommend for a decently inexpensive colorimeter (~$75)? Hopefully something that's readily available on Amazon or Newegg.
Thanks!
First, the ZR24W is a true 8-bit panel, correct? Last I heard, it was iffy as to whether or not the EA231WMi was 6-bit or 8-bit.
Second, if I find the colors a little off, what do you guys recommend for a decently inexpensive colorimeter (~$75)? Hopefully something that's readily available on Amazon or Newegg.
Thanks!
drtc
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- May 19, 2008
- Messages
- 239
@Tamahagane really, by adding some grain and noise in PS to an image does not give the same impression as anti glare coatings do...
drtc is right.
Why use a noise filter with what resembles a gaussian noise distribution between pixels irrespective of light intensity? Darker hues = fewer photons => less diffraction and reflection => Less "noise". Also, the filter ought to at least be applied to each color channel, and then merge the three images including noise. Right now each of the three subpixels are diffracted/affected equally, which in real life doesn't make too much sense - in fact the size of a subpixel is way too large also, compared to the "grain".
This makes the images you presented to become way off (much worse) compared to what it looks like in real life. The best would be a macro shot of a screen if you want to illustrate it the best way possible.
Why use a noise filter with what resembles a gaussian noise distribution between pixels irrespective of light intensity? Darker hues = fewer photons => less diffraction and reflection => Less "noise". Also, the filter ought to at least be applied to each color channel, and then merge the three images including noise. Right now each of the three subpixels are diffracted/affected equally, which in real life doesn't make too much sense - in fact the size of a subpixel is way too large also, compared to the "grain".
This makes the images you presented to become way off (much worse) compared to what it looks like in real life. The best would be a macro shot of a screen if you want to illustrate it the best way possible.
BrunoPuntzJones
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2001
- Messages
- 1,337
It was a decent enough example I thought.
Look at this thread for actual pictures.
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1034957851&postcount=34
Look at this thread for actual pictures.
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1034957851&postcount=34