how to figure out system power usage ?

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you2

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I'm going to build a system with 55watt cpu (g2020) and 1 ssd and one external dvd/rw:
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How do I figure oout the actual power usage (size of psu required) ? Is a 55 watt cpu max power draw of the motherboard/cpu or average ? I presume this build will require around 70watt max and average of what ? 30 watt? 40 watt? Trying to decide if a 80watt psu is adequate.
 
mm sucribed for a good and relatively reliable method of calculating!

Wanting to tri-SLI 670 but I only have a Seasonic X650 lol.
 
I use the calculator over here. The problem with that one is that you have to sub to see the amps and maybe a couple of other things, but the free basic calculator should at least give you a ballpark idea of what you need.
 
Many to choose from. Google "Power Supply Calculator" (sans quotes) and you'll see many options from Corsair, Antec, Newegg, Asus, and more. When you're considering your calculations, don't forget to factor in about 5w per common device that draws power from the USB bus, and fans are going to use between 2-4w. SSDs can draw anywhere from ~2 to ~5 during activity, and I have seen some motherboards draw up to 40w by themselves, but I assume you're going to be doing MiniITX or PicoITX with your total numbers, and I'm not sure about those.

If you wanted absolute specifics, if you currently have a higher power supply than what you need, run the system at full load while connected to a Kill-a-Watt, and once you see what the maximum potential draw is you can get a power supply slightly higher than that.
 
I'm not sure those calculators are correct. They indicate I need a mininum of 150watts with 210 recommended. Does that sound correct?
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The system is G2020 (hd2500 is the graphics - no add in adapter); 1 sdd; key board, mouse, printer, external dvd and 1 (or 2 depending on case) 80mm fan.
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Shouldn't it be closer to 65 watts with 80 more than adequate (ala antec 110 case).
 
Item -- Max Draw
Processor - 55w
External DVD drive - 10w
Keyboard - 5w
Mouse - 5w
SSD - 5w
Printer - Self powered


We're already at 80w and that's not including any power for the motherboard or the fans. Assuming the fans are .33a then that is 4w per fan. For our calculations you can shave some off if you know the actual draw, for example, my mouse is rated at 5v/150ma which is .75w, and my keyboard is 5v/100ma for .5w, but you always want to estimate high when calculating because you never want the PSU to run at max for purposes of efficiency. ~80% is generally considered safe for daily usage.
 
Probalby asrock itx b75 (maybe msi if i can find it).
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2 stick of ram - 2gb each 1066 or 1600
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So it sounds like (from mhenley ) that I need around 80 watt to boot and 100 watt to have 1/2 decent efficiency (and not push the psu too hard) so this would rule out the antec isk 110.


mhenley said:
Which motherboard, how many sticks of RAM?
Click to expand...
 
get a 1200w supply and forget about any problems, bronce certified of course
 
While I don't see any need for 1200w, I also don't understand the desire to try to use an 100w GPU supply. What is the application, HTPC?
Quality of GPU is more important, than trying to minimise the watts - in my opinion.
 
I think you mean psu. The idea was to use a small case (mini-itx) the actual usage is desktop (mail,web, hearts - its not for me) the case needs to be very small (tight space): When I refer to 110 I'm talkinbg about this case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129185
(which has a 90 watt psu buitl int).

Britgeezer said:
While I don't see any need for 1200w, I also don't understand the desire to try to use an 100w GPU supply. What is the application, HTPC?
Quality of GPU is more important, than trying to minimise the watts - in my opinion.
Click to expand...
 
Based on the reviews of their other products (at both Amazon and Newegg) that looks like it would work well. As a suggestion though, this one has a 200w PSU, is only $45 (vs. $81.08 after shipping), and the only difference appears to be the ability to accomodate a full size ODD instead of just a slim drive.

http://www.amazon.com/In-Win-200-Wa...-200BL/dp/B005ITOAL8/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Same case but on newegg where it shows 17 reviews, all of them 4's and 5's

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108428
 
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Yea I was looking at that case. I think it is to the other one what the 110 is to the 310 (ala size difference):
The one you linked:
http://in-win.com.tw/US/products_pccase_series.php?cat_id=1&series_id=47
10.4" x 3.9" x 12.2"
(which is about the size of a dell pizza box - ultra-slim)
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The first one (with 120watt psu):
http://in-win.com.tw/US/products_pccase_series.php?cat_id=1&series_id=49
8.9" x 3.0" x 7.6"
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Is a bit smaller. I wouldn't want to carry a dell pizza box in my suite-case but perhaps the smaller one wouldn't be too bad ?
 
Either one you choose will supply enough power for the components listed above, but if portability is more important than your link with the small dimensions would definately win. Do us all a favor though, and let us know what you decided, and perhaps even some build photos. :)
 
tvm777 said:
get a 1200w supply and forget about any problems, bronce certified of course
Click to expand...

atxps-fig01mqswv.jpg
 
mhenley said:
If you wanted absolute specifics, if you currently have a higher power supply than what you need, run the system at full load while connected to a Kill-a-Watt, and once you see what the maximum potential draw is you can get a power supply slightly higher than that.
Click to expand...

OMFG guys, Kill-a-watt recommendations everywhere. The thing is very inaccurate with reactive loads. Don't trust one and don't buy one as it's a waste. Go buy a Baytech remotely managed PDU on Ebay for like $40. It'll measure your power AND let you flip outlets on and off via network AND it's not a low-end piece of crap.
 
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I did a lot of research into the ISK110 and DC-DC power supplies when I was looking to build a similar machine, the picopsu in the ISK110 is more than enough for the listed build. You probably won't find yourself using over 40-45w. I would use a T series i7 myself though if I was building such a thing for the better integrated graphics and CPU power.
 
I'm fairly sure I am going with the in-win BQS656.DD120BL; I'm curious (hopeful?) if anyone has seen a review of the PSU in this thing. I know it has a 120watt external adapter and the internal picture shows the entire thing is made of teapo capacitors (which are not the worse thing in the world).
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Though it is tempted to maybe just go with the 110 since it is a better known entity (the psu in it is 90watt). From what I've seen (images and newegg reviews - which is all i can find) the bsq seems to have a better layout than the 110 (the ssd should run a bit cooler).
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I'm fairly sure i will go with the G1610 (which is $34); I would like to go with the G1610T or G2020T but it seems like intel is no longer selling them). I think an I7 would be a bit over kill as well as double the cost of the entire unit :)
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Motherboard is still a bit open but 99% likely to be the asrock B75M-ITX; the only other option ive seen is the gigabyte b75-itx ($10 cheaper but i've head not so nice things about it - or rather less nice things about it)
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ram - I've been very happy with g.skill so i'll stick them - probably F3-10600CL9D-4GBPK $35
because they are blue and I've never had blue ram before.
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ssd: not sure here - the sandisk exterme 120G-G25 is $100; I would feel better with the 840 pro but they are $140; maybe the m4 for $104 is the best option ? or the vertex 4 for $120. I'm more concern about reliability than absolute top speed. Oh well probalby the crucial they seem a bit less expensive but been aroudn longer than the sandisk.
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Hum oh yea and probably an external samsung dvd r/w. $25 I think that's all folks.
- ~$390; only $10 more than the dell i3 i can buy with 6 gb of ram.


LigTasm said:
I did a lot of research into the ISK110 and DC-DC power supplies when I was looking to build a similar machine, the picopsu in the ISK110 is more than enough for the listed build. You probably won't find yourself using over 40-45w. I would use a T series i7 myself though if I was building such a thing for the better integrated graphics and CPU power.
Click to expand...
 
Inwin PSUs generally tends to be of very low quality at best to absolute shit at worst. So I wouldn't go with that Inwin setup. I'd go with the ISK 110 since the PSU isn't crap.
 
I don't know how accurate this is, I probably need a really expensive Fluke meter to get a proper measurement, but I usually use a clamp on meter to check the amps, then check the voltage and multiply. If the meter is not true RMS it could be inaccurate though. I'm not really sure of the science behind power factor related stuff but basically if the power factor is not 1 (I think) the results can be skewed.

Modern systems will be pulling much more than 100w. I'd go for at very least a high quality 500w psu. But anything more than one video card I'd go towards 1kw. Quality over quantity though. Don't buy a psu just because it's 1kw, do some research to ensure it is a good one.

The size of the fans and heat sinks these days is good indication of how much power today's stuff uses. Electricity consumption directly translates to heat generated.
 
Maybe I should have but sadly i've already ordered in InWin; hopefully it won't be complete shit but I guess i the worse case I can spend another $80 in a year or two and replace itw ith a pico-psu ?

Danny Bui said:
Inwin PSUs generally tends to be of very low quality at best to absolute shit at worst. So I wouldn't go with that Inwin setup. I'd go with the ISK 110 since the PSU isn't crap.
Click to expand...
 
Red Squirrel said:
I don't know how accurate this is, I probably need a really expensive Fluke meter to get a proper measurement, but I usually use a clamp on meter to check the amps, then check the voltage and multiply. If the meter is not true RMS it could be inaccurate though. I'm not really sure of the science behind power factor related stuff but basically if the power factor is not 1 (I think) the results can be skewed.

Modern systems will be pulling much more than 100w. I'd go for at very least a high quality 500w psu. But anything more than one video card I'd go towards 1kw. Quality over quantity though. Don't buy a psu just because it's 1kw, do some research to ensure it is a good one.

The size of the fans and heat sinks these days is good indication of how much power today's stuff uses. Electricity consumption directly translates to heat generated.
Click to expand...

This is just blatantly terrible advice. Maybe you should do some research before giving people your opinion.

Danny Bui said:
Inwin PSUs generally tends to be of very low quality at best to absolute shit at worst. So I wouldn't go with that Inwin setup. I'd go with the ISK 110 since the PSU isn't crap.
Click to expand...

Eh, I wouldn't throw Inwin THAT far under the bus. That being said, this ITX psu is probably an Inwin Powerman model. In which case, it's not possibly crap. It is entirely and wholly crap.

OP, The ISK-300 was your best bet for getting something decent with some headroom. The The ISK-110 would have been sufficient but you would have been running at damn near 100% when fully loaded. I like to give myself atleast 25w/10% of headroom on any PSU.
 
Jorona said:
This is just blatantly terrible advice. Maybe you should do some research before giving people your opinion.



Eh, I wouldn't throw Inwin THAT far under the bus. That being said, this ITX psu is probably an Inwin Powerman model. In which case, it's not possibly crap. It is entirely and wholly crap.
Click to expand...

I did say I don't know how accurate it is, but at least it gives a ball park figure. :rolleyes: Also need to account for efficiency loss as what you pull from the wall is not what's being demanded from the PSU on the DC side. If you want a more accurate reading you can always get a shunt meter but then you'd have to measure each rail/voltage separately, quite a lot of work. :p If you can get a killawatt that's probably better but I can never find those anywhere I look, so using clamp on meter is best bet as most people will already have that in their tool box anyway, if not any hardware store sells them.
 
you2 said:
Maybe I should have but sadly i've already ordered in InWin; hopefully it won't be complete shit but I guess i the worse case I can spend another $80 in a year or two and replace itw ith a pico-psu ?
Click to expand...
No, worse case scenario is that the Powerman PSU kills your PC. I highly recommend canceling the order.
Jorona said:
Eh, I wouldn't throw Inwin THAT far under the bus. That being said, this ITX psu is probably an Inwin Powerman model. In which case, it's not possibly crap. It is entirely and wholly crap.
Click to expand...
So just under the front wheel then? :)
 
you2: I wasn't aware of the brand of PSUs InWin uses, I'm sorry if I steered you wrong. Ultimately, I still don't think that 90w is enough based on the numbers, but I wish you the very best in whatever you decide.
 
Well the inwin will be here in a few days (it has already shipped) and I'm not sure it is total crap. The PSU is different than the one in the old model; it has an external adapter (laptop style) and the capacitors for the dc portion are in the caes - from the picture they are all teapo which aren't horrible. Also the last 3 psu they (inwhin) have release have been not horrible (jonnyguru reviews as well as others); they aren't top of hte line but they aren't utter crap.
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This psu might be utter crap but if it is i'll deal with it when the time comes.
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Btw why do you say a powerman design is utter crap - here is a review of a 600 (2008 version) that is middle of the raod;
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=105
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Anyways i would go with the silverstone sg06 before the 310; the inwin case is the size of the 110. I suppose an option would have been to go with the inwin case or antec 110 and just use a pico-psu.
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Last but least has anyone used one of those psu testers they sell @ newegg and mazon? Any of them decent ?
 
you2 said:
Well the inwin will be here in a few days (it has already shipped) and I'm not sure it is total crap. The PSU is different than the one in the old model; it has an external adapter (laptop style) and the capacitors for the dc portion are in the caes - from the picture they are all teapo which aren't horrible.
Click to expand...
If those are Teapos, then they are a horrible choice considering that Teapos should be kept cool in order to survive. Inside a case with no fan? That sound like a bad idea to me.
you2 said:
Also the last 3 psu they (inwhin) have release have been not horrible (jonnyguru reviews as well as others); they aren't top of hte line but they aren't utter crap.
Click to expand...
When you actually compare them to other PSUs in their price range, they are utter crap by comparison.
you2 said:
This psu might be utter crap but if it is i'll deal with it when the time comes.
Click to expand...
Just as long as you don't try to recommend that to other people.
you2 said:
Btw why do you say a powerman design is utter crap - here is a review of a 600 (2008 version) that is middle of the raod;
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=105
Click to expand...
What you call "middle of the road" is what I call crap since there are better performing PSUs in that same or similar price range.

I guess if you have extremely low standards, the Inwins are ok. But if you have moderate to high standards and/or can compare to other similarly priced PSUs, those Inwins are crap.

Either way man, good luck.
 
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I don't know danny. They are not sitting next to anything generating a lot of heat; so yea the case might be 30c-35c but it certainly isn't as bad if they were sitting against a voltage regulator. For the case size I really only saw 2 options - the 110 or the inwin (you're welcome to suggeest altneratives). The 110's psu does seem a bit better; but with the inwin the power brick is outside the case (this is true for the 110 also) which is a plus as there is less heat in side the case (for the 310 it is inside). I was also a bit concern that the 110's psu would cut things very close and this would provide a bit more headroom. Last but least I'm pretty pissed at antec as the last psu I had from them developed a bad fan after 18 months; and the two 430psu I picked up in early 2000 had bad caps; so this seemed like a so so option; but as I said as long as it produce stable power for 3 years I'll be happy.

I would really like to see a review on the psu in the inwin - mabye hardcorp will do one ?
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Along these lines can you suggest a method to determine the quality of the power comming from the psu for less than $35 ? (I also want to check an old dell psu which I think is killing a system).
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you2 said:
I don't know danny. They are not sitting next to anything generating a lot of heat; so yea the case might be 30c-35c but it certainly isn't as bad if they were sitting against a voltage regulator.
Click to expand...
35C is still a touch too warm considering the quality of those caps.
you2 said:
For the case size I really only saw 2 options - the 110 or the inwin (you're welcome to suggeest altneratives). The 110's psu does seem a bit better; but with the inwin the power brick is outside the case (this is true for the 110 also) which is a plus as there is less heat in side the case (for the 310 it is inside). I was also a bit concern that the 110's psu would cut things very close and this would provide a bit more headroom.
Click to expand...
One key problem: You're assuming that the Inwin can actually provide its rated power without harming the hardware. There's very little evidence of that so far.
you2 said:
Last but least I'm pretty pissed at antec as the last psu I had from them developed a bad fan after 18 months; and the two 430psu I picked up in early 2000 had bad caps; so this seemed like a so so option; but as I said as long as it produce stable power for 3 years I'll be happy.
Click to expand...
The Antecs from that time period were well known to have bad caps. However, Antec learned from those mistakes.
you2 said:
I would really like to see a review on the psu in the inwin - mabye hardcorp will do one ?
Click to expand...
Not a good chance of that happening due to the unfortunate fact that lower wattage PSU reviews don't draw in as much ad revenue as higher wattage PSU reviews.
you2 said:
Along these lines can you suggest a method to determine the quality of the power comming from the psu for less than $35 ? (I also want to check an old dell psu which I think is killing a system).
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Click to expand...
A very very basic test would be to use a digital multi-meter to measure voltages. But even then that's not a clear indicator of the PSU's quality.
 
you2 said:
I don't know danny. They are not sitting next to anything generating a lot of heat; so yea the case might be 30c-35c but it certainly isn't as bad if they were sitting against a voltage regulator. For the case size I really only saw 2 options - the 110 or the inwin (you're welcome to suggeest altneratives). The 110's psu does seem a bit better; but with the inwin the power brick is outside the case (this is true for the 110 also) which is a plus as there is less heat in side the case (for the 310 it is inside). I was also a bit concern that the 110's psu would cut things very close and this would provide a bit more headroom. Last but least I'm pretty pissed at antec as the last psu I had from them developed a bad fan after 18 months; and the two 430psu I picked up in early 2000 had bad caps; so this seemed like a so so option; but as I said as long as it produce stable power for 3 years I'll be happy.

I would really like to see a review on the psu in the inwin - mabye hardcorp will do one ?
-
Along these lines can you suggest a method to determine the quality of the power comming from the psu for less than $35 ? (I also want to check an old dell psu which I think is killing a system).
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Click to expand...
Its all good.

Just make sure if it does blow up or catches fire that you post pics! :D
 
Ok. THe case arrived; I took a few pictures assembling the system but ran into a snag. No matter what I do i cannot get video if i put ram in the inside slot; if I place one stick in the outside slot it boots ok and things seem well (was able to boot linux off usb and memtest86 off usb). They are crossing shipping me a new motherboard.
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What I can say is that the case itself seems really nice - i esp like the disk bay; and kind of sorry I did not get an internal dvd. The portion of the psu inside the case runs extermely cool when running linux or memtest - i cannot see how there could be issues with the capacitors due to heat.
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The dimm hasn't arrived yet so i cannot comment much on voltages et all - took pictures but will wait until i resolve the issue with the motherboard. Kind of pia there.
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And while trying to figure out the video issue; I did test the system with an external 400 watt psu.
 
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new motherboard arrived; 20 minutes later up and running - no issues. system runs very cool.
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Only complaint is usb header is tight fit and has to be squeezed between ram and cpu; I took a picture but I don't see a way to upload pictures on this forum and i don't have a method ot host them.
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The case bay drive bay is way cool; and i highly recommend the case.
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I have pictures if anyone want them; but I don't have a method to host so I can't post urls.
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After the fact I found this link which discuss measured power usage of complete system:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/trinity-vs-ivy-bridge_12.html#sect0
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With the chosen 1610 the system is likely to be well below 80 watt under full cpu+gpu+dvd load. In actuality it will probably be closer to 60 watts (or lower).
 
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