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How Much Tech Chiefs Made in '08
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Cov
Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2007
- Messages
- 917
It just makes me feel sick when I read how much some people get as a salary.
But I tell you what, in our country the discussion is becoming alive now, since a simple lady (Susanne Wiest) has applied a petition for which has been granted in the federal country she lives in.
Proof: ePetition
She applied for a "unconditionally basic salary".
What that means is, that EVERY single citizen should get the basic right, by the grounds of basic law, to receive Euro 1.500.- per month.
And every child 1.000.- per month.
That's WITHOUT any attachments, strings or commitments.
Meaning, whatever one decides to do, the basic income, will be secure, no matter what.
On the top of that income, everybody would be free to earn additional money.
But the whole point is, the independancy that would give you and everybody around you, it would leave you to decide WHAT you do, and in what timeframe you want to do it.
No pressure, no force, no corruption, no reasons for fear not to be able to survive.
Yes, experts in finance & economics have calculated it through, IT IS ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE TO FINANCE THIS.
When people on the streets are asked about their opinions, they first of all question whether that is eligible for financing at all.
And secondly, they doubt that people can be trusted to still contribute to our society in any form or shape.
The first objection is already proofed wrong.
But the second seems to be grounded on a fundamental mistrust in human beings in general.
What can you see in that justification ? I can see only a tense fear about the unknown.
because that what it is, isn't it ? It's about thinking of a system which we never had before, nowhere in the world.
So, we don't have something to show that this system actually works ... yet.
Just consider the following.
About 45% of the population are in work, the rest are pensioneers, children & teenagers, the unemployed, housewifes / housemen and the handicaped.
From there you can see that the majority already lives from income which they don't "earn" in the traditional way.
The beenefits, a gouvernment pours out every single year onto the population, makes already approx 70 % of that support what a "unconditionally basic salary" already would cost anyway.
But think of the advantages for one minute, and you will realize maybe what potential there is !
Here only a few which come to my mind:
1. Crime will decrease because far less people would commit crime out of devastation.
2. The amount of security we have to take care of in order to protect ourselves / posessions is crazy in my eyes. That would decrease as well.
3. Prostitution is a very big issue all over the world. That would decrease significant.
4. At this moment of time, a huge number of people are working voluntary in our society.
I know of many in my circle of friends who can't follow all the things they want to do because of a lack of free time.
5. The massive decrease of administration, because all other benefits would be abolished.
That alone and the simplifying of complicated tax law would be a change most welcome and overdue too.
6. Think about the level of aggressions between people who're pushed to the limit.
Those people are the ones who can affect you in a very negative way, if you're not one of them anyway. People are not bad by nature, but they can be pushed / forced to the point where there's just no space for them to distinguish the fire where it burns the most.
We can read about the results of their actions every day in the newspaper.
Reports where people got killed for reasons which are beyond us.
I believe that the independancy this system could give everybody, would cause a significant decrease of violence.
etc etc etc
From there you can see what potential of people's dedications & efforts could be released.
Just imagine what you could do if you would be given the "time" and the "independency" to do your things. And nothing & nobody could put you under pressure.
And now just think for one moment how your life might have looked like, if you had been given the chance from your birth onwards.
What would have changed and how would things have turned out differently for you ?
I have only got into this political hot topic since the collection of signature for the said petition was closed. I was too late. The petition opened end of December 2008 and closed end of February 2009.
Normal petitions get about 1.000 to 2.000 signatures - the most.
This petition has collected 52.973 signatures, and that only online !
If it had been continued until today, it would have grown to over 500.000 signatures in only three months time !
Since then, this idea and all information I was able to gather from the internet about it, does not release me anymore.
From all I know now, it is the overdue next logical revolution we all need in our country, after the fall of the wall in 1989.
I'm convinced that it is the one thing that would kick off changes in the whole of our world, which are purely positive for everyone involved.
That would introduce a change affecting every single one us and everybody around us !
Having followed discussions between pro & contra politicians, I noticed how corrup the leader of our society really are.
I realized that the major objection they have in their job role is to secure their position and not to represent the people of their country.
I realize that we live in a very, very injustice society.
Wealth is not fairly divided.
In fact, the poor work for the rich.
In a society where certain people are give the oportunity to gain so much money by investing, there is no fairness.
Please do not come with "Yes, but all have the same chances.", you know that it's bullshit and purely capitalism thinking.
Unemployment can hit everyone of us and there is no reassurance existing, except we take things now in our hands.
Since I got to know about this subject, I just know that this system is the answer to most of our problems and to establish a real sense of justice.
Not that shit what we're having now.
But I tell you what, in our country the discussion is becoming alive now, since a simple lady (Susanne Wiest) has applied a petition for which has been granted in the federal country she lives in.
Proof: ePetition
She applied for a "unconditionally basic salary".
What that means is, that EVERY single citizen should get the basic right, by the grounds of basic law, to receive Euro 1.500.- per month.
And every child 1.000.- per month.
That's WITHOUT any attachments, strings or commitments.
Meaning, whatever one decides to do, the basic income, will be secure, no matter what.
On the top of that income, everybody would be free to earn additional money.
But the whole point is, the independancy that would give you and everybody around you, it would leave you to decide WHAT you do, and in what timeframe you want to do it.
No pressure, no force, no corruption, no reasons for fear not to be able to survive.
Yes, experts in finance & economics have calculated it through, IT IS ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE TO FINANCE THIS.
When people on the streets are asked about their opinions, they first of all question whether that is eligible for financing at all.
And secondly, they doubt that people can be trusted to still contribute to our society in any form or shape.
The first objection is already proofed wrong.
But the second seems to be grounded on a fundamental mistrust in human beings in general.
What can you see in that justification ? I can see only a tense fear about the unknown.
because that what it is, isn't it ? It's about thinking of a system which we never had before, nowhere in the world.
So, we don't have something to show that this system actually works ... yet.
Just consider the following.
About 45% of the population are in work, the rest are pensioneers, children & teenagers, the unemployed, housewifes / housemen and the handicaped.
From there you can see that the majority already lives from income which they don't "earn" in the traditional way.
The beenefits, a gouvernment pours out every single year onto the population, makes already approx 70 % of that support what a "unconditionally basic salary" already would cost anyway.
But think of the advantages for one minute, and you will realize maybe what potential there is !
Here only a few which come to my mind:
1. Crime will decrease because far less people would commit crime out of devastation.
2. The amount of security we have to take care of in order to protect ourselves / posessions is crazy in my eyes. That would decrease as well.
3. Prostitution is a very big issue all over the world. That would decrease significant.
4. At this moment of time, a huge number of people are working voluntary in our society.
I know of many in my circle of friends who can't follow all the things they want to do because of a lack of free time.
5. The massive decrease of administration, because all other benefits would be abolished.
That alone and the simplifying of complicated tax law would be a change most welcome and overdue too.
6. Think about the level of aggressions between people who're pushed to the limit.
Those people are the ones who can affect you in a very negative way, if you're not one of them anyway. People are not bad by nature, but they can be pushed / forced to the point where there's just no space for them to distinguish the fire where it burns the most.
We can read about the results of their actions every day in the newspaper.
Reports where people got killed for reasons which are beyond us.
I believe that the independancy this system could give everybody, would cause a significant decrease of violence.
etc etc etc
From there you can see what potential of people's dedications & efforts could be released.
Just imagine what you could do if you would be given the "time" and the "independency" to do your things. And nothing & nobody could put you under pressure.
And now just think for one moment how your life might have looked like, if you had been given the chance from your birth onwards.
What would have changed and how would things have turned out differently for you ?
I have only got into this political hot topic since the collection of signature for the said petition was closed. I was too late. The petition opened end of December 2008 and closed end of February 2009.
Normal petitions get about 1.000 to 2.000 signatures - the most.
This petition has collected 52.973 signatures, and that only online !
If it had been continued until today, it would have grown to over 500.000 signatures in only three months time !
Since then, this idea and all information I was able to gather from the internet about it, does not release me anymore.
From all I know now, it is the overdue next logical revolution we all need in our country, after the fall of the wall in 1989.
I'm convinced that it is the one thing that would kick off changes in the whole of our world, which are purely positive for everyone involved.
That would introduce a change affecting every single one us and everybody around us !
Having followed discussions between pro & contra politicians, I noticed how corrup the leader of our society really are.
I realized that the major objection they have in their job role is to secure their position and not to represent the people of their country.
I realize that we live in a very, very injustice society.
Wealth is not fairly divided.
In fact, the poor work for the rich.
In a society where certain people are give the oportunity to gain so much money by investing, there is no fairness.
Please do not come with "Yes, but all have the same chances.", you know that it's bullshit and purely capitalism thinking.
Unemployment can hit everyone of us and there is no reassurance existing, except we take things now in our hands.
Since I got to know about this subject, I just know that this system is the answer to most of our problems and to establish a real sense of justice.
Not that shit what we're having now.
Zefram0911
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2002
- Messages
- 1,178
@Cov ... I loved Star Trek too. Tell me... how do we finance this.
Cov
Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2007
- Messages
- 917
Mrs Susanne Wiest has has been invited to continue / follow up her application at the German Federal Gouvernment.
The public feedback has been overwhelming until now, far beyond anyones expectations.
You cannot compare this with any of the many petitions happened over the last decades in our country.
And neither can you follow the many heated discussions on german TV from where you are.
As the election is already due in September this year, the outcome will be exciting to follow.
If things are going to happen in favour of the claimant, we're all in for a little surprise.
Überlegungen zur Finanzierung eines bedingungslosen Grundeinkommens
Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen
Finanzierung und Wirkung
eines bedingungslosen Grundeinkommens
Ein bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen für alle
Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen (BGE)
FAQ Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen
Ein bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen ist bezahlbar.
etc etc ...
The public feedback has been overwhelming until now, far beyond anyones expectations.
You cannot compare this with any of the many petitions happened over the last decades in our country.
And neither can you follow the many heated discussions on german TV from where you are.
As the election is already due in September this year, the outcome will be exciting to follow.
If things are going to happen in favour of the claimant, we're all in for a little surprise.
Überlegungen zur Finanzierung eines bedingungslosen Grundeinkommens
Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen
Finanzierung und Wirkung
eines bedingungslosen Grundeinkommens
Ein bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen für alle
Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen (BGE)
FAQ Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen
Ein bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen ist bezahlbar.
etc etc ...
So lets say that 45% of the population works and the taxes on those peoples incomes go to support programs to help the other 55%.
So instead we will take that money that would fund the programs to the other 55% would get and just give everyone $1000-$1500 a month.
Result: Only 5% of the population continues working and their is 500% more WOW players.
The nations currency is now worth less than sea water.
So instead we will take that money that would fund the programs to the other 55% would get and just give everyone $1000-$1500 a month.
Result: Only 5% of the population continues working and their is 500% more WOW players.
The nations currency is now worth less than sea water.
No one, I repeat no one should ever be paid for not working. Just thinking you are entitled to money for not putting in an honest days work is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. It's the mentality of today's society. I deserve this and that. You deserve nothing unless you earn it and more and more people want something for nothing these days.
I find it difficult to believe that a situation Cov is describing would even be considered. Think about it. We take money from people working and then give it to people who don't work. Oh yea we already do that and it's called welfare and we all see how well that works.
If this ever did happen there would be such a tax increase to offset the payments that it would not be feasable to work unless you were very, very, wealthy. Pro athletes, Donald Trump, etc. Why go to work when you can get paid to have children. Wait we do that it's called the welfare system. Octomom anyone. Then the rich would not be able to make money because there would be no one to employ. Never gonna happen and any economist that says it is full of sh**.
I find it difficult to believe that a situation Cov is describing would even be considered. Think about it. We take money from people working and then give it to people who don't work. Oh yea we already do that and it's called welfare and we all see how well that works.
If this ever did happen there would be such a tax increase to offset the payments that it would not be feasable to work unless you were very, very, wealthy. Pro athletes, Donald Trump, etc. Why go to work when you can get paid to have children. Wait we do that it's called the welfare system. Octomom anyone. Then the rich would not be able to make money because there would be no one to employ. Never gonna happen and any economist that says it is full of sh**.
AMEN!
So, how many American big-wigs would consider it shameful to pull in obscene amounts of money from companies they've bankrupted or steered into the ditch? How many would sit at the same cafeteria table as the company grunts while eating lunch? How many truly have a desire to effectively run the company well, regardless of pay, just because it's their job to run it?
Nemesis999
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
- Messages
- 2,763
Won't work, never will. Ever. Why? Eventually you run out of other people's money to give away. The result will be 90% of the population leeching off society and 10% doing the work. All this "Communism can work" bullshit is assuming that the capitalists actually continue to take all the risks and put in all the work they do for the sole purpose of paying the useless masses.
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 33,123
Lol, seriously?
Hell, the "Stop Uwe Boll" petition has over 300,000 signatures, and that's basically just meaningless bullshit.
http://www.petitiononline.com/RRH53888/petition.html
50,000 is pretty laughable compared to several other wholly unnecessary and meaningless petitions out there.
This is true. We already have systems similar to these in place and look where they have gotten us.
As per the article, the salaries are high, but they are performance salaries which are chosen by the investors, share holders, and board members... they set the number and pick the candidate. So while a lot of people go OMG!!! they could feed the world with that, the realistic thing is that they are only filling the shoes of that position, not hoarding their own shares.
I don't think that anyone can argue with salaries like those, especially when you are the one filling the shoes.
Now on my moral side: I don't understand how they would accept such high salaries (stock options mainly) when they are tossing away small persons positions or "down sizing". What I find sickening is the fact that HP cut EVERYONES salary in the company and gave the CEO a 31% raise.
So according to cov, we take the workers money and give it to the ones who dont work, tax the workers still on their own working money and give to people who do not work and other social programs.
As they say in France, Le get the fook out of here"
As they say in France, Le get the fook out of here"
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 33,123
I think people are misunderstanding what Cov wrote. To me it seems like he's saying that everyone would get a base pay every month, and then whatever you make at your job would be in addition to that. Where all that base money would come from, though, I have no clue.