How Doom 4 Got Off Track

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

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    I think most of us can agree that Doom 4 needs to happen...just as long as it's not another Rage. Ugh. Thanks to Jarrod Jones for this one.

     
  2. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    Sounds like another Duke Nukem / A:CM situation in the making.
     
  3. PSYKOMANTIS

    PSYKOMANTIS [H]ard|Gawd

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    Armadillo aerospace got in the way.
    Bethesda got in the way.
    Quake3Online got in the way.
    Doom and Quake rehashes for console ports got in the way.
    Mobile games wing got in the way.
    Rage's failure did not help.

    That about sums up where we are today.
     
  4. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Why? Doom 3 sucked. Rage sucked...

    It's like saying Star Wars Episodes II and III 'needed to happen.' They're clearly just milking the franchise at this point without any solid artistic direction.
     
  5. Troz

    Troz Limp Gawd

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    You need more stumbling around blindly? Or did you only play Doom 3 with the Duct Tape Mod?
     
  6. FM_Fixxxer

    FM_Fixxxer Limp Gawd

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    This, right here. Until mods hit, Doom 3 was over the top dumb as hell. I'm on mars for shits sake. MARS, in a high tech space station, with amazing armor, over the top guns, and... a 5$ corner store flash light with a 0.5w bulb.. that I can only hold without my gun. That totally killed the entire theme for me.
     
  7. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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    What amazed me it seems at no point did someone at id say, "hold on, is this flashlight thing not totally retarded"?

    id are getting less and less relevant as the years roll on, they take an age to get games out and it seems like you're playing a game from the mid 90's with better graphics, totally static environments with almost no interaction with anything.
     
  8. michael.pa2

    michael.pa2 2[H]4U

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    iD lost it's focus long ago,and there's so many people trying to stick their hands into the project it's almost certain to fail. Dump Carmack ,forget the consoles and mobile gaming,and make the developers play the original Doom for a few weeks.
     
  9. Yeah, it was a totally WTF situation.

    "Look, there is a thingie in the bathroom!"
    "Let't get it" (switches from flashlight to random weapon)
    "ugh... where is it?" Wait, let me light up the room" (switches from weapon to...)

    It was kinda ridiculous that situation. A light that isn't very bright kinda makes the game more tense since you don't see shit... but not being able to carry a weapon WHILST seeing around was.... DUMB.
     
  10. pbassjunk

    pbassjunk Limp Gawd

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    Doom 3 sucked? Some seriously tinted rearview mirrors going on. IIRC youtube reaction videos really only started with people playing D3 in the dark and getting the shit scared out of them.

    Doom 3 may suck now because all of our expectations are much higher and we're all jaded because we don't get creeped out like we used do, but Doom 3 sucked at release? False.
     
  11. inbedwithhomer

    inbedwithhomer Limp Gawd

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    I remember distinctly. Doom 3 sucked. It looked plasticky, even then. Mods that turned all the lights on revealed that the obtrusive level of darkness was covering up the poor quality engine. The flashlight duct-taped to the guns mod came instantly, and "monster closets" is NOT good gameplay, nor has it ever been. Look at what its contemporaries are. The game was crap. id has not released a decent game since Quake 3.
     
  12. MacLeod

    MacLeod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Totally agree. I thought D3 was fucking awesome! Not as good as the original but was still very good and I still play it occasionally. The flashlight thing did get on my nerves but I didn't mind it that much. And I don't remember anybody really bitching about the game either when it came out. It was a Day 1 buy for me at Electronics Boutique and I even sprung for the collectors edition metal case! It may not be timeless like Doom was but Doom3 was still an awesome game.

    Now the movie did suck. :D
     
  13. GoodBoy

    GoodBoy [H]ard|Gawd

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    Doom 3 was fine, especially when it was released in what, 2003? It was awesome.

    Rage is a fine game in some technical and gameplay aspects. But I just didn't feel a desire to play it. I started, and then the characters seemed somewhat dull. The story didn't draw me in. Doom3 had an initial draw which kept me interested. I'm talking about why Prey was so fun and I wanted to play it, vs Rage where I talk to the mechanic, go do this, blah blah. It had no "emotional excitement" I guess is what I am trying to describe. I just didn't care about the characters. Sleep over the weekend and I've forgotten about it. Prey, I couldn't stop playing, kinda like whats happening now with Bioshock Infinite.

    I think Doom 4 could be great. A good story or some other factor needs to draw me in though. The Doom series has all been pretty good about this. The first doom also had a novelty for being the first 3d game that blew everything else including consoles away at the time, plus the crazy battles where you get swarmed. It had excitement.

    Prey demo was perfect. I think I've replayed that game 4 times now. Crysis 1 was great. Some really memorable moments where I remember thinking "holy shit!" Far Cry, same thing.

    Story, mood, the ambient music, the situation of your characters. Get these right and you have a hit. Get these wrong and the great technical aspects such as the awesome game engine aren't going to save your product.

    I hope they try and save Doom 4.
     
  14. CompMage

    CompMage Gawd

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    Doom 3 was EPIC!!! Nuff said.

    As for 4... I think we have a replacement for duke nukem forever. Doom 4ever to be delayed. Eh anyone?

    This is a shame because I grew up with Doom, I remember buying Doom 2 (Yes I feel old now) Doom 3 was one of the few games I've ever called creepy. I would like to see a Doom 4, but if they are using the same engine as Rage... WTF. That game looked like crap, they have already declared they don't care about PC gamers anymore even if it's what made all of the companies involved as big as they are. Unless they come back with a Crysis level WOW technical or a Skyrim level epic story, I think the franchise is dead. I agree with what Carmack said... Doom means Demons and Shotguns.

    I think one of the real problems here is the fact that the game / franchise is a cult classic. What it is has been engrained to us older gamers and anything less then amazing will be a let down.

    That said.... I want more Quake!
     
  15. soulman901

    soulman901 Gawd

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    Carmack used to be the king of Engines up until Doom 3 and then after that Epic has just been crushing him with their Unreal engine.
    So much for iD Tech 5 and Megatextures......
     
  16. blitzkommando

    blitzkommando Gawd

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    The biggest problem with Doom 3, and that is found with so many old series, is that they tried to 'modernize' it by changing it from the old 'millions of demons all out to get you at the same time' formula to 'uh oh something lurks behind every door!' of 'horror' games. Ever since Doom 3 came out I've had to explain to people why I said the game wasn't scary. At all. It startled, but the content itself wasn't scary. It was more of the same, which would be fine if it didn't try to play itself off as genuinely frightening. Because, it wasn't. Yes, I'd occasionally jump at a noise much in the same way I jump when someone pokes me and I'm not paying attention. I'd react, get a short burst of adrenaline, and then quickly return to my base state.

    In my view, horror (scary) is brought on by a change in mental state, you genuinely are agitated for a long period of time. Longer than the imagry is on the screen. You're left with that feeling of foreboding, of horror, of utter unease. To use an example of a contemporary to Doom 3 that had that capability, try Half-Life 2's Ravenholm section. Yes, it had the standard faire of pop-up boogeymen, but it also had the visceral horror of the setting and the events. But, it also had the benefit of not dragging on through countless "Labs" sections that were all the freaking same. Another game that did horror well was the first FEAR. At least, it certainly did it better than Doom 3.

    Honestly? If I want a modern retake on Doom the closest thing that exists is Serious Sam 3. If it was darker and the humor was replaced with dark corners and flashing lights, you'd have it. Which goes to show that the 'shoot everything that moves' genre still has plenty of interest from players. Developers just think they're above such 'primitive' games I guess. Which is a shame. Some of the best games were simplistic like old twitch-shooters like Quake/UT/DMC and, yes, Doom.
     
  17. LeninGHOLA

    LeninGHOLA Vladimir Hayt

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    Woah.
     
  18. dandragonrage

    dandragonrage [H]ardForum Junkie

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    If we get Doom 4, here's what I want from it: Don't treat me like a moron or a child. I was able to handle Doom and Doom 2 even when I was a child; I want puzzles and keycards and a somewhat non-linear game (as much as possible). Too many modern games, including those from Id, have been dumbed down and made about as linear as is possible.
     
  19. cocheese256

    cocheese256 Gawd

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    Doom 3 did nothing for me. I just did not get into it. I played both Doom and Doom 2 when they came out. Doom was a fun game when it came out because at that time, the only other game I played like it was Castle Wolfenstein 3d. These games were new tech to me because I had only experienced Nintendo quality games at home. The appeal of the first Dooms and Quakes were the great control with a keyboard and mouse, and the mature themes compared to other games of the time. When Doom 3 came out, I played part of it. I did not think it was a terrible game, I merely thought it was ok. There were so many other games out at the time that I dedicated my time to. For me a Doom 4 game does not raise much excitement. If it came out, I would look into it, but I would not be holding my breath for it at all.
     
  20. pxc

    pxc [H]ard as it Gets

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    Doom4, if the article is accurate about the details, may not interest me. "Call of Doom" lol

    I don't play it anymore, but I also enjoyed it.
     
  21. cocheese256

    cocheese256 Gawd

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    Although this does bring up some nostalgia. I remember playing Doom, Wolfenstein, Descent, Hexen, Mechwarrior 2, Wing Commander. Those games were so much better than anything on a console. I remember showing some of these games to some friends and they could not believe the graphics.
     
  22. Phoenix333

    Phoenix333 2[H]4U

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    I'm losing faith. Why, Id, why? I really hope this isn't true. There needs to be a focus on the PC again. :(


    You ever check out the Generations mod for Quake 3?
     
  23. Ashbringer

    Ashbringer [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't get all the hate over Doom 3. I thought it was one of the better fps games made. The only complaint about the game was the flashlight, which is kinda stupid on their part, but also stupid if you find switching weapons to be annoying. They obviously wanted you to be in a dark room. That's the whole premise of Doom 3. It's meant to be scary, and darkness is scary. Why you think so many people bitched about the flash light? Cause they were shitting themselves the whole time while playing the game. The flash light comforted them, but the guns did the killing. The choice was hard.

    I think that Doom pulled it off very well, cause I remember being scared a lot in that game. Yea you could have a flashlight duck taped to your weapon, or even your helm should have came with one, but that would completely remove the immersion they were going for. Sometimes it's better to accept these design decisions rather then to pick it apart. For example, in World of Warcraft you have flying mounts, but certain zones you can't mount up. There's no reasonable reason why you can't, other then a choice by developers. But if you could fly in every zone, then people would stay mounted the entire time, and would ruin the gaming experience.
     
  24. Monkey God

    Monkey God Mangina Full of Sand

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    You don't need 95% darkness to be scary, any more than you need monster closets. They are short cuts and they have downsides. Its the equivalent of directors using shaky cam to hide their bad action scenes.
     
  25. pxc

    pxc [H]ard as it Gets

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    Bankruptcy courts are littered with filings of companies attempting to do that. ;)

    An engine that targets both PC and next gen consoles can be very valuable to a gaming company. id is probably kicking itself over failing to do that last generation.
     
  26. dr.kevin

    dr.kevin 2[H]4U

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    doom 4? why bother.

    what new shit will it bring to the table that we haven't seen already?
     
  27. cocheese256

    cocheese256 Gawd

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    You ever check out the Generations mod for Quake 3?[/QUOTE]

    I was not a fan of Quake 3 Arena. I always thought the Unreal games were far better. I thought the graphics and gameplay were more enjoyable. I may have played Quake 3 if it had not come out at the same time as Unreal Tournament.
     
  28. ThisMonsterLives

    ThisMonsterLives [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've been waiting for an update like this as I knew something had to be going wrong. It wouldn't surprise me if they scrapped it again and redesigned the whole game around the ps4 and xbox 720 and repeated the same mistake as with Rage. id boastfully showing off Rage on the iphone still sticks with me.
     
  29. ArbY

    ArbY Limp Gawd

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    A Doom 4 would be excellent. I really enjoyed Doom 3. Holding only the flashlight when it was equipped made for some tense moments. At the time, I thought the graphics were top notch. I've actually considered replaying it.
     
  30. cptnjarhead

    cptnjarhead Crossfit Fast Walk Champion Runnerup

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    i loved Doom 3, i think the problem was that Half life 2 came out like a month after that. Both games rocked, but Half life 2 did steal some thunder.
    Doom 4? i would buy it on steam sale for sure, but if they break the mold and give us something unique (not just more triangles either) then i might not wait for a steam sale.
     
  31. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Might as well say that about any game. Or anyTHING for that matter. Really, what HASN'T been tried or seen already in EVERY entertainment medium.

    I'm all for innovation, but to say that something can't be done well because it's been done before is silly. There are a metric ton of reasons why new versions of old things have value. The formula could be more refined. Maybe someone didn't get in on the first iteration, and now things have progressed to where the original won't cut it. I know so many people that won't play System Shock or System Shock 2 because of the graphics. Ridiculous in my eyes, as they're arguably the two best games ever made, flaws and dated graphics included. Create new ones now, and manage to not screw it up, and all of the people who never tried, get a chance to experience that.

    What if something the devs wished they could do ten years ago that just wasn't possible opens new doors for them now.

    Once again, they just have to not screw it up. I'd be happy with a good old twitch shooter with keycard gameplay, as long as it totally blows me away in other aspects. Things that couldn't be done on previous hardware, bigger areas, etc. The gameplay might be simple, or tried/tested, or even old, but if it's polished to today's standards, why not? People still play checkers, card games, etc. There's room for a good example of anything.
     
  32. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Damn, wish I could edit to add more to that. This is less of a response, and more just me rambling, but this also reminds me of when people complain about claustrophobic settings and linearity. One basically has to know what "their type" of game is. Just as important, to keep in mind that setting is everything. People will complain about linear maps, tight spaces, and wish for wide open sandbox settings, and ignore the fact that a game is placed on an installation on a planet with no breathable air. You want open jungles, play Crisis. You want tight-quarters, monsters around corners, play Doom.

    Anyway, provided they get their focus back, (and who knows if that's possible or not now,) I thoroughly look forward to a new Doom game. But then, I love every game they've made more or less. I just keep in mind what they are, what they were intended to be, and what I expect an id game to be like. If you expect more than what an id game typically is, then you'll be disappointed. Simple as that.

    (I liked Rage too) :p :p :p
     
  33. dandragonrage

    dandragonrage [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You kinda don't know what you're talking about. The older FPS games like Doom and Doom 2 managed it WAY better than FPS games today. Duke 3d too. Many others.
     
  34. ServerKing

    ServerKing [H]ard|Gawd

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    I like how this man thinks, idc at the time I rarely heard anyone complain about the game like people are today, but man do I hate action movies that pull that shaky cam crap when i know some of these action stars can pull off the stunts themselves just fine.
     
  35. Phoenix333

    Phoenix333 2[H]4U

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    Uh... Rage didn't exactly do such a good job of being multi-platform, and the number one complaint I hear from PC gamers is about crappy console ports. As for bankruptcy for PC-focused games, take a look here:

    http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com

    That doesn't look much like bankruptcy to me, and Valve is doing a killing of a business without having produced a AAA title in the last few years except for Portal 2. Their flagship game series, Half-Life, hasn't released a game in how long now?

    Look, I'm not against releasing on consoles, but every time there's this attitude that "OMG, without consoles we'll DIEEEEE" going on in a game company we PC gamers get left with an inferior game because they don't take the time to leverage the PC's strengths. The whole "PC is dead" crap is just that - crap. Id started as a PC game company, and got sidetracked. They need to go back to their roots and remember what got Carmack that Ferrari to begin with.
     
  36. evilsofa

    evilsofa [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That was indeed the premise, and the premise was dead wrong; darkness is not scary, just annoying. It's lighting done properly that's scary, and Doom 3 did it so wrong. A year later, F.E.A.R was released and showed how to do lighting proper scary in ways that Doom 3 never was.
     
  37. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    QFT.
     
  38. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You kinda don't know how to make an intelligible response. What is the "it" you refer to being managed better by Doom and Doom 2? My post was about a few different aspects of play. I've also played all of the id games since each was released. There are good things and bad things about all of them, but I've enjoyed them all overall. There were some shining moments like Q3A, some less than shining like Rage, but overall I would say none of them were actually a bad game.

    If you're referring to my take on people faulting games for things that generally apply to a certain style of play that are typical of that style, then just what's wrong with that logic?
     
  39. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    I thought Doom 3 was amazing, certainly better than RAGE even though I liked RAGE a lot.

    I can't remember whether Viktor Antonov - the guy who made HL2 - was appointed as creative boss at Zenimax before or after this reboot. Probably after. Pretty sure id could use his expertise, hell I don't think they were given a choice.

    I just don't want them to make it yet another story driven, QTE filled RPG like bullshit with lots of characters and useless talking. Thing is, this is exactly what they want to do.

    Bethesda should let id do their own thing and give up on the mass market AAA big budget productions. id Software is great at core mechanics but I fear Zenimax/Bethesda is going to get rid of those in order to make it modern and appealing. I hope I am wrong.
     
  40. eon

    eon 2[H]4U

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    Doom 3 was cool for like the first 10 minutes then it got more and more boring fast...
    Go into dark room, kill monsters, atleast one monster pops out of nowhere at you. Go to next room. Rinse and repeat.

    id needs to expand their shop to develop games more quickly so the tech they are running on is not outdated when its finally released. They also need to get some game designers for their campaign modes