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HELP!!!

S

Sunin

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - August 2008
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
3,421
I just started Folding.

I have my PS3 cooking away without issues. Very nice performance BTW .11s/
I have my E6600, which seems to be single core only atm. 2m33s/
I have my P4 3.9Ghz, 1950AGP machine that if I could get it stable is .2s/

So here is the situation:

My P4 machine is rebooting about after 5 minutes of a workorder. Here is what I have done thus far.

I've downloaded Catalyst 6.10, did driver cleaner, installed 6.10, rebooted, ran 5.91 gpu gui = Reboot, then ran 6.01 gpu console = Reboot.
This system is stable for greater then 8hrs in Orthos, and the 1950AGP is at stock clocks and I've never had a stability issue with it.

Any help you can provide on how to get this ATI GPU up and folding would be appreciated. I did read the guide and the faq on F@H page. Nothing helped.

----------------------------------

Is there any way to get my GTX's folding on my E6600 machine? Also is there a way to enable the 2nd core? I followed the windows guide here, and installed in a 2nd directory and it kept giving me the error that an instance was already running and I can't run two instances. This is with the full, non beta version, if I recall 5.93??? but exact version escapes me. Any help to get this machines time down to the PS3 range would be appreciated.
---------------------------------
Any other tips or tricks? Can the Wii fold? Xbox 360? etc.?

Thanks much!
 
If you're only running the GPU client on the P4 machine, I'd set it back to its default clock and see if the overclock is causing your stability problems. As for the 6600, you should be running the SMP client without a doubt, you'll see much higher PPD and it utilizes both cores . Folding on nvidia GPU's is currently unsupported.
 
I will try that on my P4 machine.. If I recall stock is 3ghz on that machine so I will certainly try it. I guess that will eliminate that as the problem if it still causes havoc. I guess I shoudl also run Memtest just to ensure the memory is not having issues. I've had those G.skills flawlessly performing for 2yrs now and should check them as well. Since this box has the potential of kicking sooo much butt with the 1950 I am really wanting to get it active!

Ahh when I see SMP I think multiple processors not multiple cores. I will definitely get that version when I get home today. Thank you for that tidbit.

I wonder if there is any program out there that can force a program to utilize the GPU. I mean how are these hackers forcing the Nvidia GPU's to crack encryption. Hmmm... Imagine what pair of GTX's could do... OYE! /drool

Has there been a discussion of Performance (Folding)/watt anywhere? I mean the PS3 is mighty impressive and for the base system at under $400, a farm of ps3's could be interesting!
 
Sunin said:
Any other tips or tricks? Can the Wii fold? Xbox 360? etc.?

Thanks much!
Click to expand...


Well the joke around here is that the 360 would melt. The Wii has a modified CPU that is mostly found in pocket pc's. Wont turn out many PPD if they even did bother with a client.

 
Sunin said:
Ahh when I see SMP I think multiple processors not multiple cores. I will definitely get that version when I get home today. Thank you for that tidbit.

I wonder if there is any program out there that can force a program to utilize the GPU. I mean how are these hackers forcing the Nvidia GPU's to crack encryption. Hmmm... Imagine what pair of GTX's could do... OYE!
Click to expand...

It has more to do with the structure of the GPU. Most of the time you get more points by running the CPU client. Unless it is a very old CPU and a decent ATI card. But the cost makes it a waste unless you have them sitting around.

 
Can the single core client on the E6600 and run the SMP client. You'll see both cores being used and it will produce around 2100 ppd.

The P4 could be suffering from overheating. Check your temps and your thermal settings in the bios. You are basically running the CPU and the video card at 100% so there will be lots of heat.
On the same note, you are running the CPU and the video card at 100%....there is a huge stress on your PSU. Make sure the fan in it is working. If it died or if the PSU is weak, it could cause the machine to reboot from loss of or unstable voltage.

The GTX cards will not fold. ATI only at the moment.

No Wii folding. No Xbox 360 folding unless you did some kind of hacking to put linux on it.
 
Ok I'm confused I read the faq about the badges and still can't get it to work on the signature line any help with that too would be :)
 
It will not work in the sig. Active links/Images are not allowed as it is against the forum rules.
You create a shortcut link on your links bar and instead of clicking submit or submit reply, you click that link. It inserts your badge in your message and submits the message with just that one click.

 
Gotcha! didn't get that concept I guess is the issue :)
 
Sunin said:
Has there been a discussion of Performance (Folding)/watt anywhere? I mean the PS3 is mighty impressive and for the base system at under $400, a farm of ps3's could be interesting!
Click to expand...

There are serveral threads and random posts disscussing this. There has yet to be a large collective organized thread with all the data combined. We know enough that if you are looking for maximum points per day per watt used, a farm of PS3s is not the way to go. For example, I just recently added a E4500. At stock speed of 2.2, it was making 1417 PPD on a P2653 work unit running Windows SMP (output with Linux would be slightly higher). It was drawing 72 watts. That's 19.683 PPWatt.

Also from a points for hardware purchased view of things, $400 for a PS3 is not the best way to go even either. E2xxx and E4XXX Intel systems pretty much have that wrapped up. You could build 2 of these systems for $400 or not much more and could easily make between 1250 and 1800 PPD per machine.
 
Killer[MoB];1032079805 said:
Also from a points for hardware purchased view of things, $400 for a PS3 is not the best way to go even either. E2xxx and E4XXX Intel systems pretty much have that wrapped up. You could build 2 of these systems for $400 or not much more and could easily make between 1250 and 1800 PPD per machine.
Click to expand...

Check sig.....

The PPD you state is without pushing an OC far or at all.

 
Thanks, I think I will see an improvement once I get the smp.

They really need to get the client out for the nvidia gpu. That would add a lot of raw power.

I will work to get that other machine stable again tonight. It is either a PSU on the way out or a heat issue. It is a hard reboot so no bsod or anything on the P4 machine.

I also need to tweak the E6600 machine as it can go 3.8ghz stable and its is at 3.375, so another 10% is in there. Its on water so temps never get above 52c at 100% at 1.4v

The only bad thing about using the gpu is the wattage my system will use will skyrocket. Anyone kinda get excited about the new 1ghz cpus that work on like 2 watts... If you could somehow build a cluster of those 40 or so would be the equiv of wattage from a highly oc'd E6600 :)

LOL still have to get used to the hitting the other button to sumbit replies :)
 
Kendrak said:
Check sig.....

The PPD you state is without pushing an OC far or at all.
Click to expand...


True. Generally for the $400 for the two systems, you are not going to have highly overclockable components other than the CPU. I was just being realistic for the price range.

Also, IIRC, the PS3 draws about 200 watts at full tilt and makes about 900 PPD. That's 4.5 PPWatt.

Edit: I just looked at your sig again and noticed your estimate for your future E4500 is off by a good bit. I have mine at 2.926 GHz now and it's making 1823 PPD (WinSMP P2653). At 3.2, I think you could see around 1990 PPD. The extra cache seems to wake them up a bit more compared to the E2xxx CPUs.
 
I also had one oddity with the E6600 machine but it may have been something I did.

I had clicked the close up finish, but then subsequently unchecked it. Got home the WU finished and the program was closed. I wish I was there to see if that was a reboot or a results of me initially clicking the close upon completion option.

Guess I will find out today. I have been monitoring my temps closely but since it is only using 1 core it has not even struggled. Hopefully with both cores cooking I will see some nice improvements.



 
Sunin said:
Has there been a discussion of Performance (Folding)/watt anywhere? I mean the PS3 is mighty impressive and for the base system at under $400, a farm of ps3's could be interesting!
Click to expand...

At the moment the best farm in terms of Point per Watt is made up of Quads.
Running a very basic setup Quad core setup with a good efficient 350-400 PSU. It will use probably use just under 200 watts power and if you get a resonable overclock running two VM's should get around 3,000-4,000 PpD.
So your looking at 15-20 PpW.

Second comes a basic Dual core setup.
Will probably use 3/4 of the power for 1/2 the points.
So your looking at 10-15 PpW.

Third comes the PS3 & GPU clients.
Around 220-250 watts needed for 800-900 PpD.
So only 3-5 PpW.

Last comes the standard CPU client.
You'll be lucky to do much over 1 PpW.

Luck .................. :D
 
Ok one more question then, in general terms: ( too friggin funny someone was answering this question just as I typed it!)

Overall PPD / PPD per watt / cost
1. CPU's
2. GPU's
3. PS3's

Ranking them in order of efficiency and production. From what it sounds like cpus (modern) are the best cost, performance and PPD, thus like you stated a cheap mobo, some cheap ram, a good but inexpensive psu and a nice processor = the way to go.

I have an area that I could build a small rack system into and would consider plunking a small amount down now and a little bit in the future to keep expanding my folding.

Truthfully I keep them all air cooled and I can avoid turning on my heat ever... hehehe

Its becoming clear that I am going to have to invest in a 16 port switch. 4 ports is just not cutting it.

Would it be worth doing a cheap dual processor board? have 2 quad cores, run some sort of freeware operating system, cuz god knows I'm not paying microsoft to run a folding box. Hmm going to have to look into the various options.
 
Thanks for the response Tiger, what quad core would you suggest, most Q6600's I've seen are a bit pricey.
 
Ok one more question is there a way to estimate PPD? I've seen a couple formulas, but am curious how I can calculate something.

Thanks!

 
for the most part, the best info can be found at fahinfo. you can search for different projects there, and based on users reported stats, can generate a fairly good picture of what kind of PPD you can expect.

 
Sunin said:
Thanks for the response Tiger, what quad core would you suggest, most Q6600's I've seen are a bit pricey.
Click to expand...

A good Q6600 will do almost the same PpD as two similar speed Dual cores.
It will also use less Power.
So you may pay more for the CPU but you only need one of everything as opposed to two of everything for dual cores.
First workout the cost of a Quad.
Now workout the cost of two Duals.
The two Duals may be a little cheaper but you'll may well make that back by useing less power over a couple of years.
So the outlay for the farm gets concentrated into a few big spends as opposed to a lot of little ones.
Just my 0.02p worth.

For example.
I limit my farm to useing ~2 kW/h.
With my mix of Dual & Quads in my farm, at the moment I'm pulling in ~28,000 PpD.
Once I finish my upgrade to a pure Quad farm, I'm hopeing to get close to 40,000 PpD for the same power useage.

Luck ........... :D
 
So what does 2kw/h cost you per month in electricity... wow!

I was thinking a nice 4 cpu board, tyan for example, plus 4 quads = highest ppd for the hardware. :)
 
Sunin said:
So what does 2kw/h cost you per month in electricity... wow!

I was thinking a nice 4 cpu board, tyan for example, plus 4 quads = highest ppd for the hardware. :)
Click to expand...
What architecture, AMD? You can forget it. Barcelona isn't even in the running IMO compared to Intel quads. Then there's the question of the quality of the existing multi-socket infrastructure for AMD processors. I can tell you all sorts of stories having used AMD servers for the better part of the decade.

I was going to build one AMD 4S server but it's in no way an economical setup. Quite the opposite in fact. For the same money you can build a small farm that would outproduce it by a wide margin. There are other disadvantages such as what happens if the system goes down? You lose all that processing power in one fell swoop. Not worth it for F@H at all.

 
APOLLO said:
What architecture, AMD? You can forget it. Barcelona isn't even in the running IMO compared to Intel quads. Then there's the question of the quality of the existing multi-socket infrastructure for AMD processors. I can tell you all sorts of stories having used AMD servers for the better part of the decade.

I was going to build one AMD 4S server but it's in no way an economical setup. Quite the opposite in fact. For the same money you can build a small farm that would outproduce it by a wide margin. There are other disadvantages such as what happens if the system goes down? You lose all that processing power in one fell swoop. Not worth it for F@H at all.

Click to expand...

Harpertown 5400's something 2.5-3ghz, x4 possibly.

I see what you mean.
 
Sunin said:
Harpertown 5400's something 2.5-3ghz, x4 possibly.

I see what you mean.
Click to expand...
I think Tigerton (4-way Xeon) is based solely on Clovertown cores. However, the cheapest quad-core/quad-socket processor (E7310) is $900-$1000 each, and the frequency is an anachronistically glacial 1.6GHz. The motherboard is well over $1000 and you will require FB-DIMM memory. If you want to configure VMWare, you will need 8 VMs, which means at the very least 6GB of RAM, preferably 8GB. As you can see, the math starts getting very crazy, very fast.

I have done endless calculations on various architectures and configurations, both new and used parts. It just doesn't add up unfortunately; I really wish it would. I understand very well where you're coming from and sympathize in the apparent interest you have with the enthusiast factor involved in a quad socket server.

Only AMD quad socket systems are within the realm of affordability but so far they are underwhelming in performance. There's also the TLB errata which means VM is out of the question unless you want the fix with associated performance decrease. I can get a quad socket board for about $700, but the architecture performance is not worth the cost. Same goes for Tigerton but for other reasons.
 
Sunin said:
So what does 2kw/h cost you per month in electricity... wow!

I was thinking a nice 4 cpu board, tyan for example, plus 4 quads = highest ppd for the hardware. :)
Click to expand...

I'm only paying around £0.08 per kW/h.
So 0.08 x 2 x 24 x 30 = 115 per month.

Remember that multi CPU server boards dont overclock, so the speed you buy is the speed you run. So no free gain in points that way.
Most server boards take FB Dimms = Double price of normal Dimms.

Saying that I do like my Dual X5355's. 6.2K PpD for only 330 watts used.
But they cost 2.5x more than 2x Q6600's systems that can do a better PpD.
I've got them more for the space saving. One box vs two.
Luck ............ :D
 
So I returned my P4 to stock and boom its stable. I'm curious if it was the overclock or one of the other values I changed in teh bios, but regardless upon putting it back to defaults it is not churning.

Currently it is doing Project 2737 Run 1, Clone 429, Gen 0 at 8m20s per 1%
I installed the SMP verstion on the E6600, it is doing Project 2653 Run 1, Clone 189, Gen 59 at 13m11s per 5,000 which = 1%

Not sure what that translates to PPD, but its nice to see both cores pegged at 100%

So Now I have all 3 machines folding
1 PS3
1 P4 @ 3ghz w 1950 ATI
1 E6600 @ 3.375ghz
 
Sunin said:
So I returned my P4 to stock and boom its stable. I'm curious if it was the overclock or one of the other values I changed in teh bios, but regardless upon putting it back to defaults it is not churning.

Currently it is doing Project 2737 Run 1, Clone 429, Gen 0 at 8m20s per 1%
I installed the SMP verstion on the E6600, it is doing Project 2653 Run 1, Clone 189, Gen 59 at 13m11s per 5,000 which = 1%

Not sure what that translates to PPD, but its nice to see both cores pegged at 100%

So Now I have all 3 machines folding
1 PS3
1 P4 @ 3ghz w 1950 ATI
1 E6600 @ 3.375ghz
Click to expand...

vast assumption that i didn't screw up my calculations, 13m 11s per frame would be ~1920 PPD. this is probably pretty close, because my quads hit WUs of the same point value for ~12min/frame for 2100PPD, and my X2 4800 hits at about 25min/frame for about 1000PPD, so yours would sit up on the higher end of the range between my SMP clients

 
Yeah this weekend I'm going to work the over clocks. I know I have 20-30% more power off the P4 to be obtained and I think another 10-15% to get from the E6600.

Also do you suggest running that affinity program?

I also noticed on one machine someone disabled Hyper Threading. why? Should I do that on my P4? It only hits 58% usage atm on the cpu.

Well anyways, todays folding should net me somewhere around 3-4k, I'm hoping.
 
So there is no way to drill down to a WU level on stanfords site is there? I was hoping I'd be able to work out an estimate today of the work being produced by my P4/ATI machine to see if it is worth it folding or not.

I know the C2D machine is worth it, and the PS3 is not horrible considering its sooo easy to setup and is running very cool.

I'm fearful that this next update is going to include both a PS3 WU and the P4 WU.

I know the FAHmon would help, does it impact the output at all of the box?

Thanks to all that have endured, encouraged and replied these onslaught of Q's :)



 
Sunin said:
So there is no way to drill down to a WU level on stanfords site is there? I was hoping I'd be able to work out an estimate today of the work being produced by my P4/ATI machine to see if it is worth it folding or not.

I know the C2D machine is worth it, and the PS3 is not horrible considering its sooo easy to setup and is running very cool.

I'm fearful that this next update is going to include both a PS3 WU and the P4 WU.

I know the FAHmon would help, does it impact the output at all of the box?

Thanks to all that have endured, encouraged and replied these onslaught of Q's :)


Click to expand...

Use FAHmon, and point it at your boxen. It will give you a rough idea what your #'s are per box.

 
Will do with the FAHmon!

One other question a T7200 based laptop with 2gig, what PPD would this add? This is my work laptop and would most likely only load it upon leaving work, getting home and then plugging it in over night, but if it can do 1000ppd it might be worth it. I also saw a program to hide the folding service, which again could be another option to let it run all day long. Might check with the tech guys to see their stance on this as it only takes spare cpu cycles and would not cut into the useability, they might not care too much.
 
How much of a delay is there between FAH website updates and [H]'s stats? Just curious as I'm showing 715 points of progress at 8am central and it is now nearly 11am central without those being added. Not that it is a a big deal just curious what the normal offset is between the two so I know for future. :)
 
Stanford updates it own internal stats once an hour and the everybody elses stats once every 3 hours.

Depending on how close to the update time you sent work in depends a bit if it will show up on this update or next.
Also I've seen different stats sites show different update times for the same work.
And to further muddy the water, if your work gets sent to a collection server, it will take longer to show up then if it was returned back to the work server itself.

Normally if it does not show up on one update, it will show up on the next.

Luck .......... :D
 
It can be up to a four-hour delay. Don't sweat it--your points will show up eventually.
 
Mohonri said:
It can be up to a four-hour delay. Don't sweat it--your points will show up eventually.
Click to expand...
Yep, sometimes even longer if there are other issues affecting the stats updating system.
 
Well I am on track for a record day, I've got 1100 points so far and I know the PS3 has 1 or 2 WU still, the P4 has at least 1 more and the E6600 Should be sending the big one at about 3 or 4 pm.

All that combined I'm hoping for near 4k today which will double my overall points since I started folding :)

 
Looks like stanford's site is updating every 2 hrs, 6, 8, 10am PST
 
Sunin said:
Will do with the FAHmon!

One other question a T7200 based laptop with 2gig, what PPD would this add? This is my work laptop and would most likely only load it upon leaving work, getting home and then plugging it in over night, but if it can do 1000ppd it might be worth it. I also saw a program to hide the folding service, which again could be another option to let it run all day long. Might check with the tech guys to see their stance on this as it only takes spare cpu cycles and would not cut into the useability, they might not care too much.
Click to expand...

Never install folding without permission. This includes computers at the workplace, a friend, a client, etc. You must always have permission before installing.

 
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