heh, Not buying anything from HP going forward...

Zarathustra[H]

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
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My girlfriends mother is visiting from Brazil. Her laptop (a HP G42-214BR with a core i3-350m) was being very slow and causing her grief, so I figured it was time for a little upgrade and a fresh windows install.

Picked up a 120GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD and a 2x4GB RAM package.

I was very puzzled when I found that it was equipped with 3 gigs of ram, so I opened up the RAM slot, and yes. It had mismatched RAM sticks. One 2GB and one1 GB?

Really HP? You guys should know better.

(and no, this was not a poorly done aftermarket upgrade, the sticker on the top of it clearly says "3GB RAM"...
 
I've got news for you. OEM's have been doing crap like this for years. They usually don't care if the system runs in dual channel etc. They shove whatever RAM they have on hand into the machine and call it a day.
 
Dan_D said:
I've got news for you. OEM's have been doing crap like this for years. They usually don't care if the system runs in dual channel etc. They shove whatever RAM they have on hand into the machine and call it a day.
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Good to know. Only laptops I've ever had myself, are ones that have been issued to me from work, and in my last 7 jobs they've all been Dell Latitudes, and have been configured properly. (I guess they pay attention when configuring the Enterprise models)

As far as desktops go - which is what I primarily use - I build them all myself, so I have no experience with what the OEM's do.

Problem is, it's not just a performance problem, but don't mismatched RAM sticks also lead to potential instability?

I also don't for the life of me understand why anyone (OEM or not) installs 32bit versions of Windows 7 (or 8) seeing that practically all CPU's support 64bit these days, 32 and 64bit have the same license cost and keys and all installing 32bit windows does is result in more complicated upgrades down the road...

Microsoft should really just stop releasing 32bit OS:es, at least on x86 platforms. They are irrelevant today.
 
I'd rather have 3GB of RAM than 2x1GB sticks running in dual channel. The OEM isn't going to waste 4GB of RAM on a machine running a 32-bit OS. Other than lack of dual channel, what's the problem here?
 
On the positive side, with the Samsung 840 EVO and 8GB of RAM, this thing positively flies! :cool:

Now, if I'd only known that Windows comes in both Brazilian Portuguese (PT BR) and Portugal Portuguese (PT PT) before installing the wrong version (all downloads from Digital River appear to be PT PT) and spending hours installing drivers, updating windows to current, configuring and installing all her software. :rolleyes:

Going to have to start from scratch!

That, and since the laptop didn't come with a recovery disc, I'm having a terrible time finding PTBR install media to use with the key on her laptop. Digital River only seems to have the Portugal version, so right now I'm grabbing an ISO from a Torrent. Going to scan the crap out of the disk with AV and malware software before using it though. I just don't trust software from torrents...
 
CEpeep said:
I'd rather have 3GB of RAM than 2x1GB sticks running in dual channel. The OEM isn't going to waste 4GB of RAM on a machine running a 32-bit OS. Other than lack of dual channel, what's the problem here?
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Stability? I've always followed best practice of only using RAM of identical size, brand, model number and timings in the same machine, for stability purposes.

Besides, Really? The difference in cost between 2GB + 1GB and a 2x2GB kit is negligible... It might even be cheaper for a large corporation like HP, as they only have to carry inventory of one part rather than two, and can take advantage of economies of scale to get cheaper components...
 
There were lots of machines shipped with 3GB of ram during the time when ram was getting cheap enough but 32-bit windows was still the "default" and vendors didn't want to confuse people by shipping ram they couldn't use.

While having different amounts of ram on the two channels is not ideal it's better than having a system where only one of the ram channels is in use (also common in laptops).
 
Zarathustra[H];1040369618 said:
Stability? I've always followed best practice of only using RAM of identical size, brand, model number and timings in the same machine, for stability purposes.

Besides, Really? The difference in cost between 2GB + 1GB and a 2x2GB kit is negligible... It might even be cheaper for a large corporation like HP, as they only have to carry inventory of one part rather than two, and can take advantage of economies of scale to get cheaper components...
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I've never had stability problems using modules of mismatched sizes as long as they were the same speed and manufacturer. 3GB vs 4GB seems trivial now, but that machine is several years old and was made when 1GB DDR3 modules were still very popular. Using 3GB was an easy way to clean out stock and make room in inventory for 2x2GB kits. The alternative would have been 2x1GB, since the OS is 32-bit. I can't imagine anyone would rather have 2x1GB over mismatched 3GB.
 
TBH, I'm not sure what you expected given the 3GB spec. Most laptops only have 2 slots, so it's not like they could have matched it any closer.
 
vsboxerboy said:
TBH, I'm not sure what you expected given the 3GB spec. Most laptops only have 2 slots, so it's not like they could have matched it any closer.
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The elusive 3GB module is rarely seen in the wild. Researchers still don't understand how it breeds.
 
Zarathustra[H];1040369618 said:
Stability? I've always followed best practice of only using RAM of identical size, brand, model number and timings in the same machine, for stability purposes.

Besides, Really? The difference in cost between 2GB + 1GB and a 2x2GB kit is negligible... It might even be cheaper for a large corporation like HP, as they only have to carry inventory of one part rather than two, and can take advantage of economies of scale to get cheaper components...
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Typically what they've got on hand to fulfill the orders makes more difference to the OEM than anything else. They won't halt production on something that sells well just because they don't have matched modules. Few people will notice that a laptop isn't running with dual channel mode. I've seen this behavior with OEM's in laptops and desktops since dual channel capable chipsets hit the market. Things are actually better than they were. You've got a better than 50% chance of them doing it right rather than a 90% chance of them doing it wrong as was the case in the old days.
 
vsboxerboy said:
TBH, I'm not sure what you expected given the 3GB spec. Most laptops only have 2 slots, so it's not like they could have matched it any closer.
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That's true, but when I looked at the computer properties screen and it said 3GB my first thought was "I didn't think they made mobile triple channel bloomfields" followed by "no they definitely didn't" Then I thought something was either wrong (system misreporting RAM amount) or that this must be some rare laptop with 4 ram slots.

My last theory was that some bonehead just added one 1GB stick as a cheap upgrade.

I never thought that HP would actually ship a computer like this from the factory... Guess I shouldn't have given the OEM's that much credit :p
 
Sometimes 3GB means that some of the RAM has been reserved for video or the thing has a 32bit OS on it. Having only 3 actual gigabytes of RAM is odd.
 
This doesn't surprise me. The OEM will ship it with however much is ordered or specified. You can go to most manufacturers websites right now and order mismatched memory configurations.
Almost every laptop with 6GB or 12GB RAM is going to be running mismatched sticks, 4+2 or 8+4.
 
almost every laptop ive had has been mismatched. dell, hp, asus, etc. a lot of my laptops were 6gb (4+2) I commonly mismatch ram in my desktops too because quantity is typically better then quality. I just set the timings to match whichever is slowest and dont have any stability issues. The only system thats been picking is my newest Asus sabertooth x58 + l5639. it wouldnt post when i tried to add mismatch brands, timings, etc.

I am not recommending the above, just saying id rather have 8gb of mismatched ram then 4gb of matched ram. I like using what i already own or have left over rather then buying new, just for the sake of "matching".
 
my wife's vostro has 6GB and we have not noticed any problems with the machine.
 
Chipsets and IMCs have had no problem running in dual channel with mismatched ram sizes for a while now with asynchronous dual channel mode or Flex mode as Intel calls it..

It'll will perform dual-channel transfers up to the matched size (1GB + 1GB in this case) and single-channel for the remainder of the larger module. You're not losing out on much performance from 2GB in dual-channel and have the added benefit of an extra gigabyte in cases where 2GB isn't enough. Single channel operation is always better than page-swapping.


And yes, nearly every single laptop manufacturer did this from 2008-2011 or so before 4GB became the new baseline. 2GB + 4GB was another popular option for a much shorter period of time.


The systems I absolutely HATED were the ones that had something like 128MB or 256MB soldered directly to the motherboard then had a single slot hidden inside under the keyboard or something.
 
My current laptop is a MSI GX70 and I really like it, but my old 2008 HP is still no slouch with a 2.2 Turion, it is nearly as good as my MSI. (The MSI has a regular hard drive and the HP a SSD, both Win 8.1) I think HP is as good as any out there.
 
lol man you are going to be shocked when you hear about some of the other things OEMs do.

Also from what I understand dual channel can actually run for the first 2GB then do 1 GB single. Essentially the old days of dual channel being very anal and specific are no longer. It seems to be fairly forgiving and flexible now.

If you want to complain about HP do so about their insistence on shipping laptops with inadequate cooling, they will build a laptop to compete with the mac book pro, in size and weight but then they will let you configure it with WAY more powerful GPU / CPU that it cannot cool. And when something goes wrong their customer service is horrible one guy will promise you a fix, then they will send the laptop back with something else wrong. They will promise you if it isn't fixed they will replace it with any new laptop, then later deny they ever said that.
 
The mismatched memory is not a problem at all. I don't see anything wrong with this other than the slight speed loss from single channel vs. dual channel. But in normal use cases having 50% more RAM is going to more than offset that.
 
Dan_D said:
Sometimes 3GB means that some of the RAM has been reserved for video or the thing has a 32bit OS on it. Having only 3 actual gigabytes of RAM is odd.
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Nah, tons of OEMs did it, especially on lower-end laptops.
 
Check the OS. See if it is 32 bit instead of 64 bit. OEM will plaster a sticker with the modern OS on the computer, and NOT tell you it is 32 bit. Whenever I see a 3GB ram install on an Original Equipment Manufacturer computer, such as your HP, or any other manufacturer, I know the OS is most likely 32 bit.

Many OEMs do this for cheap systems. I expect to see a bunch of "Black Friday" specials with 32bit Windows 8 and 3gb ram. (Yes, there is a 32 bit version of Windows 8.)
 
HvyMtl said:
Check the OS. See if it is 32 bit instead of 64 bit. OEM will plaster a sticker with the modern OS on the computer, and NOT tell you it is 32 bit. Whenever I see a 3GB ram install on an Original Equipment Manufacturer computer, such as your HP, or any other manufacturer, I know the OS is most likely 32 bit.

Many OEMs do this for cheap systems. I expect to see a bunch of "Black Friday" specials with 32bit Windows 8 and 3gb ram. (Yes, there is a 32 bit version of Windows 8.)
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Yeah, but the beauty of Win7 (as opposed to Vista) is that the license is independent of whether it is x86 or AMD64, so you can fet a OEM system with a 32bit install and just use media to install the 64bit version using the key on the sticker.

That's what I just did with the laptop I upgraded. Went from 3GB mismatched, x86 win7, and a slow ass mobile hard drive to 2x4GB, Samsung 840 EVO, and x64 Win 7.

She was stunned. Amazed that her laptop went from frustrating to. FAST. She was thinking she'd have to get a new one.
 
Im confused, at first I thought the OP's GF was given mismatched ram, and hence why no HP, but then it seems they didnt do anything wrong, and the OP's just complaining how the product his GF's mom bought isnt fast enough?

:( This is just a plain "upgraded my computer, now its fast but THE OEM is the Bad guy for giving me what I paid for" thread. Lets not badmouth HP for a computer thats not living up to your performance standards.
 
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samm said:
Im confused, at first I thought the OP's GF was given mismatched ram, and hence why no HP, but then it seems they didnt do anything wrong, and the OP's just complaining how the product his GF's mom bought isnt fast enough?

:( This is just a plain "upgraded my computer, now its fast but THE OEM is the Bad guy for giving me what I paid for" thread. Lets not badmouth HP for a computer thats not living up to your performance standards.
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Nope not complaining it wasn't fast enough. Just stating what I did to upgrade it.

My only gripe with HP was the mismatched RAM, but I didn't realize that it was neither uncommon, nor not as big a deal as I thought. Maybe it's just cause I'm a little oldschool, but it was always drilled into me that ram sticks in a system need to be IDENTICAL, at least as much as possible.
 
Zarathustra[H];1040380610 said:
Nope not complaining it wasn't fast enough. Just stating what I did to upgrade it.

My only gripe with HP was the mismatched RAM, but I didn't realize that it was neither uncommon, nor not as big a deal as I thought. Maybe it's just cause I'm a little oldschool, but it was always drilled into me that ram sticks in a system need to be IDENTICAL, at least as much as possible.
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At least is the key word here. HP and other OEMs literally do the least of what they can to produce anything. I just finished re-assemblying my Acer laptop and wow, the amount of shortcuts and masking tape they used to originally put this laptop together is insane. My older laptops were simpler to disassemble, but were made with truly another tier up of engineering quality. EHH what can you do anymore lol

the best motto for OEMs:
Quality products attracts followers and loyal customers.
Quantity of products satisfies my investors and allows me to buy that veyron for my lake cuomo CEO villa :p
 
vsboxerboy said:
Yeah I used to work at a compusa so I saw loads of shitty laptops - 3GB was fairly common..
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I did too but much further back than you I'd imagine. I hadn't seen any 3GB models really. Mostly jumping from 2GB to 4GB is what I saw. Then again I didn't look at too much low end shit.
 
samm said:
I just finished re-assemblying my Acer laptop and wow, the amount of shortcuts and masking tape they used to originally put this laptop together is insane.
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Last time I had apart a Discrete MacBook Pro (~2006 era) I was shocked by the same thing. It was held together by tape.

By comparison the enterprise Dell Laptops seem to be put together much better.
 
I had to remove 2 dozen screws to replace the optical drive in my vaio S15. After taking it apart a few times now, I'm really sick of all these incredibly tiny screws and would welcome some 2 sided tape.
 
Kueller said:
I had to remove 2 dozen screws to replace the optical drive in my vaio S15. After taking it apart a few times now, I'm really sick of all these incredibly tiny screws and would welcome some 2 sided tape.
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The MacBook Pro was something like 20 microscopic screws followed by tape.

My Dell Latitude took 4-6 larger screws and then everything came apart nicely.

On the inside, the Dell had a quality feel. Custom molded components and brackets screwed into place, and everything firmly mounted.

The MacBook Pro on the other had much more of a "bunch of junk in a box" feel on the inside, with parts wrapped in plastic and tucked in corners, or taped down to flat surfaces. It was not confidence inspiring at all...
 
Try 19 screws to get the lower assembly from the top assembly.
11 screws to get the upper assembly off.
Then tape everywhere YAY!

the MB was screwed in with one mini screw.....
 
Zarathustra[H];1040369552 said:
I was very puzzled when I found that it was equipped with 3 gigs of ram, so I opened up the RAM slot, and yes. It had mismatched RAM sticks. One 2GB and one1 GB?

Really HP? You guys should know better.
Click to expand...
As pointed out by other posts above, this is not unusual. If you're going to exclude companies because they did this, there would be no major vendors left since they all did this.

Ryan explained how the memory controllers handle this configuration. The smaller capacity DIMM runs in dual channel mode with part of the larger DIMM. The rest of the larger DIMM runs in single channel mode. 2GB + 1GB = 2GB running in dual channel + 1GB running in single channel. It doesn't affect performance as much as you think.

Flex configuration was introduced 9 years ago, so it's nothing new either, especially on systems running 32-bit Windows which aren't going to get 4GB of usable memory even if 2 2GB DIMMs were installed.
 
I used to use Elitebook (2530p), it was murder to open the casing when I wanted to clean the cooling fan. Switched to Dell (E6320), its a breeze.
A lot of them specialist legacy software only runs on 32bit. Reason why more enterprice grade machines comes with 32-bit 7,
64-bit wud have been useless for me that I am dealing with seismic manipulation software.
 
shea2812 said:
A lot of them specialist legacy software only runs on 32bit.
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By that do you mean code that never got updated to Win32s or Win32 in the Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 era? :D That's just a sad case of laziness/incompetence. I've seen it firsthand, so it's not really surprising, but it's also not common enough to keep the vast majority of users (even corporate) away from 64-bit Windows.

64-bit Windows runs 32-bit software, but can't directly run 16-bit software like 32-bit Windows can. It would be a pretty notable exception for regular 32-bit software to not be compatible with 64-bit Windows. There are of course exceptions, for example, like software tailored for specific low level features dependent on particular Windows releases (like security software) and certain types of disc tools (emulation), or possibly older hardware drivers, especially if they run in kernel mode. Generally, in the broadest sense, running 32-bit software is not a reason to avoid 64-bit Windows.
 
pxc said:
By that do you mean code that never got updated to Win32s or Win32 in the Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 era? :D That's just a sad case of laziness/incompetence. I've seen it firsthand, so it's not really surprising, but it's also not common enough to keep the vast majority of users (even corporate) away from 64-bit Windows.

64-bit Windows runs 32-bit software, but can't directly run 16-bit software like 32-bit Windows can. It would be a pretty notable exception for regular 32-bit software to not be compatible with 64-bit Windows. There are of course exceptions, for example, like software tailored for specific low level features dependent on particular Windows releases (like security software) and certain types of disc tools (emulation), or possibly older hardware drivers, especially if they run in kernel mode. Generally, in the broadest sense, running 32-bit software is not a reason to avoid 64-bit Windows.
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Sound like his hardware only had 32-bit drivers (probably only for XP at that, but that's usually not a problem), and the software to run it would choke on a 64-bit machine since the drivers couldn't work..
 
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