HD6970 vs gtx580 benchmarks

Spoonie_G said:
Does it always get like this over here when/before a new card comes out?
Click to expand...

It feels like some MMO guild where everyone is all giddy with excitement and speculation before a patch or expansion comes out, and every guild member is arguing amongst themselves what's going to be good or bad or what's going to be nerfed.
 
eddieck said:
He's an [H] editor though. I would assume if he was planning on making a video card purchase right now, he would ask Kyle and Brent about the 6970s and what to buy. Dan also used to have a 5970, so he's not exclusively NVIDIA.
Click to expand...

+1!!! exactly my thoughts!

UtopiA said:
Well, you can't expect him to actually say "yes I bought the 580 because I know it's faster than the 6970".
If you ask him to reply to the posts in here about it, that's pretty much the only response you'd expect to get.

If you look at the timing of his purchase... Why did he wait a MONTH to buy the 580's? And why does it fall right within the window when Hard would be testing the 6900's?
Actions speak louder than words, and all that. In this situation, the 'words' are even being blocked by an NDA. There's no other way of looking at it.
Click to expand...

Again, right on!!!

Dan is probably mad at himself for his original post and he might be trying to backtrack.

heflys20 said:
Funny, since the person who assumed that Dan bought a 580, because it's faster, owns a Nvidia card......:rolleyes: Should I assume he's a Nvidia fan?
:D
Click to expand...

Look at my posts when I was trying to figure out what to buy. I am not a fan of either one.

polonyc2 said:
do you really believe he bought a 580 a few days before the 6970 comes out by accident?...coincidence?...an [H] mod who even if he hasn't tested out the 6970 himself I'm sure he can ask Brent or whoever has what their opinion of the card is...the NDA prevents him from explicitly saying that the 580 is better or faster then the 6970 but you can read between the lines
Click to expand...

+1!
 
heflys20 said:
Dan, on the other hand, says he hasn't tested the card, doesn't know their performance, and bought the cards because of the recurring success of NV surround and SLI scaling in recent tests. I'm sure you'll ignore this, and go out of your way to point out some other fallacy.

And I'll be simply.....:confused:
Click to expand...

He is not the official tester but he knows enough to make a rational decision. Again, he voted with his own money. That says it all.

When Dan buys video cards, he tends to buy the best of a generation.
 
another reason why buying a 580 now might be a wise move...if Nvidia does indeed have the faster card they might raise their prices...I just checked a few sites and saw $15-$30 price increases on the 580...Nvidia might not have any incentive to lower prices if they feel they have the much better card, even if the 6970 is priced significantly lower

didn't Nvidia do this with the 8800GTX or some other recent top performing card?
 
bezant said:
He is not the official tester but he knows enough to make a rational decision. Again, he voted with his own money. That says it all.

When Dan buys video cards, he tends to buy the best of a generation.
Click to expand...

Let me be a little realistic here.

The guy bought the GTX 580 because it was available for sale, and it's a pretty good card, and he's partial to SLi over CrossfireX.

That is all I read out of what he said elsewhere......sheese. You all will go blind reading between the lines.:eek:

The low down will be here tomorrow, keep your shorts on. I'm betting there won't be a single copy for sale.
 
polonyc2 said:
another reason why buying a 580 now might be a wise move...if Nvidia does indeed have the faster card they might raise their prices...I just checked a few sites and saw $15-$30 price increases on the 580...Nvidia might not have any incentive to lower prices if they feel they have the much better card, even if the 6970 is priced significantly lower
Click to expand...
Nvidia's pricing scheme is completely independent of being #1 or not, the 4870 proved this.
If the 6900's offer competitive performance then Nvidia will cut the price. Even if the 6900's are slower.
 
magoo said:
Let me be a little realistic here.

The guy bought the GTX 580 because it was available for sale, and it's a pretty good card, and he's partial to SLi over CrossfireX.

That is all I read out of what he said elsewhere......sheese. You all will go blind reading between the lines.:eek:
Click to expand...

I would agree with you, if that had not happened the day before the release...
 
Could it be that when people see how badly the 6970 perform, the prices of the GTX 580 go higher?
 
polonyc2 said:
another reason why buying a 580 now might be a wise move...if Nvidia does indeed have the faster card they might raise their prices...I just checked a few sites and saw $15-$30 price increases on the 580...Nvidia might not have any incentive to lower prices if they feel they have the much better card, even if the 6970 is priced significantly lower

didn't Nvidia do this with the 8800GTX or some other recent top performing card?
Click to expand...

People will not pay a $100 premium for 5% more performance :) The 4870 performed under a 280 and it forced Nvidia to drop prices.

If Nvidia raises the price they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. I imagine 2 6950s won't cost much more than a single GTX580.
 
heflys20 said:
You obviously seem determined to prove something. What it is, I haven't the slightest. The original argument presented in this topic, in case you missed it, was, and I quote (pay particularly close attention to the bolded part):



Dan, on the other hand, says he hasn't tested the card, doesn't know their performance, and bought the cards because of the recurring success of NV surround and SLI scaling in recent tests. I'm sure you'll ignore this, and go out of your way to point out some other fallacy.

And I'll be simply.....:confused:
Click to expand...

Indeed I did.

polonyc2 said:
so instead of waiting a few days to test the Crossfire scaling of the 6970 he went ahead and bought 2 GTX 580 cards...either he must be incredibly impatient, incredibly stupid or is great at predicting the performance of unreleased cards through tarot cards or crystal balls...I must get him to buy a few lottery tickets for me and place a few wagers on next weeks NFL games
Click to expand...

Let me preface this by saying, "yeah I'm impatient." I'm an early adopter of computer technology. I have always been that way. I don't buy everything, that's new and shiny but I read the rumors just like you guys do. Sometimes I have inside information that I don't share, and sometimes I don't. I can tell you that in this case, I'm not privy to any information concerning 6970 vs. GTX 580 performance that you guys can't go read for yourselves. Yeah, I'm being impatient. I've recently upgraded to 3x30" displays and a single Radeon HD 5970 isn't getting it done. Even overclocked to 850/1200 I'm not happy with what I'm seeing here. So yeah, I'm in a hurry to upgrade.

Now I've been working in this industry professionally for 16 years. Hardware is my passion and I'm taking an educated guess based on my experiences. I've had 49 different video cards to date that I can remember. I believe I have enough experience and I've had enough of a sampling of the modern cards to make my determination. I'm also factoring leaked information into the equation and thus I think I've got enough information to make my "educated guess." Especially given the fact that neither NVIDIA or AMD are using entirely new architectures in the GTX 580 or 6970 respectively. AMD has struggled with multi-GPU scaling from the very beginning. Some architectures have done better than others, but certainly no GPU configuration beyond two has proven to scale well in either camp. NVIDIA however has shown better scaling with Fermi derived GPU's than ATI / AMD has with Cypress derived parts. I have no reason to think this is going to change anytime soon with Cayman XT and I'm willing to bet money on it. In fact in a way I just did.

No single card, no single GPU can meet my needs currently. Not unless the 6970 ends up being double the speed of Cypress or Fermi. I seriously doubt that. We'd have heard rumors stating something like that by now if that was the case. Given that I've got to drive three of these big bitches at a combined resolution of 7680x1200 I had to think in terms of multiple GPUs. I think the 6970 will be very close to the performance of the GTX 580. Probably so close there won't be a noticeable difference between the two in actual games. Even if I'm slightly off base there and the 6970 manages a 10% lead over the GTX 580, any advantage AMD has will be null and void when it comes to multi-GPU scaling. When it comes to that NVIDIA is always the safer bet.

bezant said:
He is not the official tester but he knows enough to make a rational decision. Again, he voted with his own money. That says it all.

When Dan buys video cards, he tends to buy the best of a generation.
Click to expand...

Precisely.

polonyc2 said:
another reason why buying a 580 now might be a wise move...if Nvidia does indeed have the faster card they might raise their prices...I just checked a few sites and saw $15-$30 price increases on the 580...Nvidia might not have any incentive to lower prices if they feel they have the much better card, even if the 6970 is priced significantly lower

didn't Nvidia do this with the 8800GTX or some other recent top performing card?
Click to expand...

Yes they did. The 8800GTX stood unchallenged for some time, then ATI released the 2900XT which was pathetic in comparison. 8800GTX prices fell slightly, but only because the 8800Ultra came out.

magoo said:
Let me be a little realistic here.

The guy bought the GTX 580 because it was available for sale, and it's a pretty good card, and he's partial to SLi over CrossfireX.

That is all I read out of what he said elsewhere......sheese. You all will go blind reading between the lines.:eek:

The low down will be here tomorrow, keep your shorts on. I'm betting there won't be a single copy for sale.
Click to expand...

This is also true.
 
Last edited:
bezant said:
I would agree with you, if that had not happened the day before the release...
Click to expand...

exactly...day before release + tech savvy guy= informed purchase decision

if it was your Average Joe I coud chalk it up to a fluke...but not for a guy who lives on the cutting edge of hardware...or do people really believe he is going to buy 2 580's, find out the 6970 is faster, sell the 580's and buy 2 6970's all within a span of a few days? :rolleyes:

EDIT: written before reading Dan_D's above post
 
Last edited:
570 at least in europe is priced @ 330 euros minimum
and 580 is price from 450+

These prices exist today in Germany
I do not know the prices for US. If someone is willing to write them we could see.
 
Definitely have to agree with Dan on SLI. Review after review that I've read, Nvidia does better when it comes to multi-GPU configurations. ATI/AMD improved a lot by the 6000 series so it gives me hope that the 7000 series will be a much bigger improvement.

Future cards aside, for a person like myself, I'm not really looking to run multiple GPUs. I'm looking for a card that offers a good price and performance, and is good on the temps, noise and power. So I have a lot of hopes on the Radeon 6970. If it performs well, has good temps and noise, and lower power usage than 580, as well as lower price (which is already a given), I'm definitely getting it.
 
polonyc2 said:
exactly...day before release + tech savvy guy= informed purchase decision

if it was your Average Joe I coud chalk it up to a fluke...but not for a guy who lives on the cutting edge of hardware...or do people really believe he is going to buy 2 580's, find out the 6970 is faster, sell the 580's and buy 2 6970's all within a span of a few days? :rolleyes:

EDIT: written before reading Dan_D's above post
Click to expand...

Let me also say that I ordered the GTX 580's last Friday. Not the day before the release of the 6970. Today is just the first day I made mention of the upgrade in another thread. I knew the 6970 was incoming but based on what I knew about the GPU, I'm hedging my bets on the GTX 580 being the better buy, at least where multiple GPUs are concerned.
 
Dan_D said:
Let me also say that I ordered the GTX 580's last Friday. Not the day before the release of the 6970. Today is just the first day I made mention of the upgrade in another thread. I knew the 6970 was incoming but based on what I knew about the GPU, I'm hedging my bets on the GTX 580 being the better buy, at least where multiple GPUs are concerned.
Click to expand...

I made the same bet. (570s but you catch the drift).

SLI scaling is better, NVIDIA driver set is better imo, and lastly, after the whole newegg tax 5800 series fiasco, I wasn't about to pay the premium should this be a soft launch.
 
crackbone said:
SLI scaling is better, NVIDIA driver set is better imo, and lastly, after the whole newegg tax 5800 series fiasco, I wasn't about to pay the premium should this be a soft launch.
Click to expand...
Do a lot of gaming over the past week, have you?
The EVGA 570 on Newegg actually came down $10 in price since then. Also if the 6950 ends up causing the 570 to cut prices, you actually did pay a premium already.
 
UtopiA said:
Do a lot of gaming over the past week, have you?
The EVGA 570 on Newegg actually came down $10 in price since then. Also if the 6950 ends up causing the 570 to cut prices, you actually did pay a premium already.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but the first two points don't change. Until ATI can make a driver set that's on par with NV and have Crossfire scaling on par to SLI, I don't see myself going back to ATI.

That doesn't mean I'm not interested in what the numbers look like. :)
 
if it was your Average Joe I coud chalk it up to a fluke...but not for a guy who lives on the cutting edge of hardware...or do people really believe he is going to buy 2 580's, find out the 6970 is faster, sell the 580's and buy 2 6970's all within a span of a few days?
Click to expand...

HaHaHaha......I've done that, I think it was a jump from a 4870 to a GTX 285 or something like that.

I've had a shit load of GPUs going back before the Ti4600.........and since Sli was reborn by nvidia, AMD just hasn't gotten it right.

I've tried Crossfire since the "dongle" and yup, EyeFinity is ok, but nvidia is just better.

I don't care what the 6970 is or isn't.........but I'm curious to see how it performs just like everyone else, and..........maybe prices will go down?
 
bezant said:
+1!!! exactly my thoughts!

Again, right on!!!

Dan is probably mad at himself for his original post and he might be trying to backtrack.

Look at my posts when I was trying to figure out what to buy. I am not a fan of either one.

+1!
Click to expand...
You sound like you WANT it to be true.

Dan like everyone else basis his decisions on whatever info is available to him, including his past experiences. He already stated more than once, that
1) 5970 was not enough for this 3x30" setup, and
2) From his experience, and others it seems, Crossfire+Eyefinity scaling sucks.

Given those 2 points, it seems like a logical decision for him to go with the 580s. Why?
1) even if the 6970 is faster, is their Eyefinity + Crossfire scaling better, and if so, is it enough to beat out a multi-monitor GTX 580 sli setup?
2) If the 6970 is on par or slower, then the only loss he is taking, is a bit of $$ on each card, and thats given that the Eyefinity+Crossfire scaling is working well.

I'll simplify it down for you one more time.
even if the 6970 is FASTER or a better VALUE than the GTX580 Dan would have probably gone with the GTX580 still, because for his application, NV has proven to be more reliable so far.

crackbone said:
Perhaps, but the first two points don't change. Until ATI can make a driver set that's on par with NV and have Crossfire scaling on par to SLI, I don't see myself going back to ATI.

That doesn't mean I'm not interested in what the numbers look like. :)
Click to expand...

have you seen the 6850/6870 crossfire scaling? it's MUCH improved over 58xx and it even seems to be better then SLI Scaling.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
You sound like you WANT it to be true.

Dan like everyone else basis his decisions on whatever info is available to him, including his past experiences. He already stated more than once, that
1) 5970 was not enough for this 3x30" setup, and
2) From his experience, and others it seems, Crossfire+Eyefinity scaling sucks.

Given those 2 points, it seems like a logical decision for him to go with the 580s. Why?
1) even if the 6970 is faster, is their Eyefinity + Crossfire scaling better, and if so, is it enough to beat out a multi-monitor GTX 580 sli setup?
2) If the 6970 is on par or slower, then the only loss he is taking, is a bit of $$ on each card, and thats given that the Eyefinity+Crossfire scaling is working well.

I'll simplify it down for you one more time.
even if the 6970 is FASTER or a better VALUE than the GTX580 Dan would have probably gone with the GTX580 still, because for his application, NV has proven to be more reliable so far.



have you seen the 6850/6870 crossfire scaling? it's MUCH improved over 58xx and it even seems to be better then SLI Scaling.
Click to expand...

I have. It's better. It's still not better than SLI. It might seem that way, but it's not in reality.

Additionally, until AMD/ATI gets their shit together with regards to drivers, it won't find a spot in my rig anyway. I was really hoping that with these new cards and the new catalysts, we'd start to see some parity.
 
Last edited:
crackbone said:
I have. It's better. It's still not better than SLI. It might seem that way, but it's not in reality.
Click to expand...

OH man..im going to try this argument out in the Mustang forums.

"I have seen the 5.0s 1/4 mile time. They SEEM faster than the 2010s...but in reality, its not any faster"


HA HA HA HA , man i NEEDED that laugh!


Wait wait let me try it with the weather.

Yes the thermometer says its 22F out side today....it may seem like that is colder than the normal 65f, but in reality, its not any colder today"

Hang on..im going outside to see if it worked!
 
What I want to be true is a single card solution for a mere 4800X900 eyefinity. I get by for now but I can't do much better than medium/low mix with 2XAA on BC2 for online play. Anything more and the low fps hits are around 2-3 fps at times of intense action.

If not, I will go with the best solution for multi monitor setups. Regardless of brand.
 
crackbone said:
I have. It's better. It's still not better than SLI. It might seem that way, but it's not in reality.
Click to expand...

Lets take a look, and sorry for using a site that uses canned benchmarks, since time is a slight constraint to putting this up.
Here is the Anandtech article about 6870/6850 @ launch with xfire/sli included.
Anandtech Article
I used the Radeon 6870 and the GTX470

The last # at the bottom is the average across all the games tested.

Please double check the #s, but it looks like the 6870 in CF scales better than the GTX470 in SLI

Untitled.png
 
Last edited:
Digital Viper-X- said:
Lets take a look, and sorry for using a site that uses canned benchmarks, since time is a slight constraint to putting this up.
Here is the Anandtech article about 6870/6850 @ launch with xfire/sli included.
Anandtech Article
I used the Radeon 6870 and the GTX470

The last # at the bottom is the average across all the games tested.

Please double check the #s, but it looks like the 6870 in CF scales better than the GTX470 in SLI

Untitled.png
Click to expand...


No no no, it just SEEMS that way. Its really not.


You think you are posting on Hardocp right now but you really aren't it just seems that way. This is actually the twilight zone.

My stomach hurts from laughing at that post.:p
 
Min fps would have a big impact on those numbers.
Especially since we're talking about CrossFire...
 
AllenFX said:
No no no, it just SEEMS that way. Its really not.


You think you are posting on Hardocp right now but you really aren't it just seems that way. This is actually the twilight zone.

My stomach hurts from laughing at that post.:p
Click to expand...
It seems so :p

UtopiA said:
Min fps would have a big impact on those numbers.
Especially since we're talking about CrossFire...
Click to expand...
They don't include min fps numbers in that article, now that I've given you the Average FPS, some HARD evidence, are you going to start throwing around excuses like "min fps sucks on cf" without providing.... some proof of it?

Lets use logic here, there is some empirical data to prove that CF for the 6870 scales better then SLI for the GTX470.

Without providing some sort of information, other than your "opinion", you can't really say otherwise.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
They don't include min fps numbers here, now that I've given you the Average FPS, some HARD evidence, are you going to start throwing around excuses like "min fps sucks on cf" without providing.... some proof of it?
Click to expand...
Well, based on what he said:
I have. It's better. It's still not better than SLI. It might seem that way, but it's not in reality.
Click to expand...
It seems like he was talking about min fps.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
Based on what he said, based on what it seems like to him? Sorry, I don't trust his "data" give me something more real.
Click to expand...
I'm saying if he was talking about min fps performance, then your average FPS chart is pretty much meaningless. I don't know if he can prove it.
 
Minimum fps doesn't really matter either though, unless it's provided by a graph and thus shows how often the cards actually fall to that fps.

Speaking of which, did [H] ever do that 6870 CFX review?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top