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have a ? or two for Small PC Owners.

4

4LC4PON3

DERP!
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
4,230
ive always been interested in Small form factor PC's but are they any good for Gaming? Ive heard and you can easily correct me but the mobo's tend to have heat problems?

Does it Cost MORE then it would a Larger Rig or is it generaly Cheaper to go Small Form and do you get the exact same Performance as larger Rigs?

Sorry for my Ignorance Im coming back into PC gaming and building soon so my technical knowledge is just not there.
 
They don't have heat problems if the case is designed properly / you have proper airflow. Depending on if the chipset ran hot and they used a smaller heatsink on the north/soutbridge for cooling you could run into issues, but this is all dependent on what you use.

The challenge is fitting everything in and getting airflow to all the components, something like the TJ08 I quite like because it has a front 120mm fan and a rear 120mm fan, much like most ATX cases... but it's a small micro-ATX case.. I'm not a fan of their HDD bracket, but it works.

It doesn't cost more, M-ATX boards are typically cheaper, there are high-end X58 mATX motherboards that top out at $200... where-as the high-end ATX x58 boards are more like $300+

Performance wise, if the chipset is the same you really won't see much of a difference.
 
thanks. so the video cards are typicaly that same? in the TJ08 case what is the Max video card it will Hold?
 
4LC4PON3 said:
ive always been interested in Small form factor PC's but are they any good for Gaming? Ive heard and you can easily correct me but the mobo's tend to have heat problems?

Does it Cost MORE then it would a Larger Rig or is it generaly Cheaper to go Small Form and do you get the exact same Performance as larger Rigs?

Sorry for my Ignorance Im coming back into PC gaming and building soon so my technical knowledge is just not there.
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Welcome to the SFF community!

Funny you ask these things..I've just started making an FAQ over at www.sffclub.com (don't judge the FAQ just yet)

To answer quickly...the do not cost more...sometimes less but not by much. Heat is a concern for the SFF crowd but a good case won't have heat issues...in fact the popular ones for the DIYers such as the SG0x series, "Da Box", and Qmicra are all without heat issues...major ones at least.
 
thanks for the reply. I will check out the FAQ page you listed. Im not worried about the Heat im sure they make some awesome airflow cases. What I meant by Heat issues ive heard that the north/soutbridge on boards tend to have some heat problems. Just what i heard.

Im 100% not sure where to start as for a build. I dont want to put a post up in the general hardware section. I want to read and learn this by asking questions n such. i dont want someone to build it for me and i just buy it not knowing anything.
 
the cases you listed above such as the Da box and those are Pricey. what cases would you recommend for lets say a 4890/5850 video card.

also this might be a good or bad thing but im a fan of cases with windows.

I signed up for the mATX world also. Gonna get some posts up and going
 
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From what I have seen and read matx is the sweet spot for paying less than a big setup for the same performance. Mitx still has a premium price for equal performance in a smaller package. I still think I'm going to go the mitx way when I pull the trigger
 
right now im putting a build together on newegg so lets see what i can come up with.
 
4LC4PON3 said:
thanks for the reply. I will check out the FAQ page you listed. Im not worried about the Heat im sure they make some awesome airflow cases. What I meant by Heat issues ive heard that the north/soutbridge on boards tend to have some heat problems. Just what i heard.

Im 100% not sure where to start as for a build. I dont want to put a post up in the general hardware section. I want to read and learn this by asking questions n such. i dont want someone to build it for me and i just buy it not knowing anything.
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The FAQ page literally went up today so it doesn't have real answers yet...I'm working on it this weekend hopefully along with the DFI-P55 review

Might I suggest first coming up with what you want it to do. If small size, easy to place on desktop (access to dvd drive), somewhat portable but powerful, or quieter are important to you than SFF is really not a bad way to go. If you are just looking for a machine to play games at maximum FPS than perhaps you don't care either way and should go ATX. In real world experience you aren't going to see much difference, if any, between full size and SFF. This is a truth most people just don't get. I've never heard someone with an SFF case go "man, I woulda had a better K:D ratio if I had an ATX motherboard". Furthermore, not everyone is a graphic designer.

So be realistic with what you need. The best of the best is a waste of money for most people.

Let us know and we can point you in the right direction...and no, the nb and sb don't have many heat issues if any.
 
Smitty2k1 said:
From what I have seen and read matx is the sweet spot for paying less than a big setup for the same performance. Mitx still has a premium price for equal performance in a smaller package. I still think I'm going to go the mitx way when I pull the trigger
Click to expand...
with the $140 DFI motherboard is mostly the fault of Intel chipset costs. It probably ends up slightly less than mATX assuming you go with something like the SG04 for mATX and SG05 for mini-itx....as a good comparison.
 
what im trying to achieve is a Power single GPU setup for Gaming Only. I dont go to lans or anything like that i just like the looks of SFF. the case needs to fit a single 4890 or 5850.

here is what i came up with so far.

SILVERSTONE TJ08-B
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz
LG DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH24NS50 - OEM
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB
CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX
XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB

Grand Total: $915.88

not sure if the PSU is powerful enough to run this setup.
 
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4LC4PON3 said:
what im trying to achieve is a Power single GPU setup for Gaming Only. I dont go to lans or anything like that i just like the looks of SFF. the case needs to fit a single 4890 or 5850.

here is what i came up with so far.

SILVERSTONE TJ08-B
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz
LG DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH24NS50 - OEM
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB
CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX
XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB

Grand Total: $915.88

not sure if the PSU is powerful enough to run this setup.
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It is a little confusing that you want it to fit a 5850 but are choosing a 5770.

Do you prefer the tower style or box style? box is like the SG01F or Qmicra2 or Da Box

Tower you can do SG03, SG04, TJ08 (kinda SFF...consider mini-tower)
 
yeah i wanted a 5850 but i started running out of funds. i cant go over 1000 shipped so i had to make a choice. i dont like the tower style i wanted more of a box style just wasnt sure wich to go with. alot of the box styles are pricey

if i remove the tower sryle case it beings me to Grand Total: $810.90

The problem is, is that the cases you like i dont think i can fit in the budget since they are pretty pricey. its hard to believe that the SFF cases cost More then an atx

what about these cases

SILVERSTONE SUGO SG02
SILVERSTONE Sugo SG05-B
SILVERSTONE Sugo SG01-BF

also is the board in the build a good board. im not going to be overclocking. i was also wondering about the CPU. I chose a 955 black for 165 was thinking maybe i can save some by going with the AMD Phenom II X4 925 Deneb 2.8GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3
 
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ok looking over this build alittle bit i think i can save a tiny bit of cash here.

LG DVD Burner
SILVERSTONE SUGO SG02-BF
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB
MSI 785GM-E51 AM3 AMD 785G
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit
AMD Phenom II X4 925 Deneb 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W

Grand Total: $847.08

went from 915 to 847
 
4LC4PON3 said:
yeah i wanted a 5850 but i started running out of funds. i cant go over 1000 shipped so i had to make a choice. i dont like the tower style i wanted more of a box style just wasnt sure wich to go with. alot of the box styles are pricey

if i remove the tower sryle case it beings me to Grand Total: $810.90

The problem is, is that the cases you like i dont think i can fit in the budget since they are pretty pricey. its hard to believe that the SFF cases cost More then an atx

what about these cases

SILVERSTONE SUGO SG02
SILVERSTONE Sugo SG05-B
SILVERSTONE Sugo SG01-BF

also is the board in the build a good board. im not going to be overclocking. i was also wondering about the CPU. I chose a 955 black for 165 was thinking maybe i can save some by going with the AMD Phenom II X4 925 Deneb 2.8GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3
Click to expand...
The SG02-BF (always get the F) is good. It is around $60 bucks. It is just a cheaper SG01-BF.

Go with a processor that is 95w.
 
Yep, I have a SG02-F (black), and it can fit upto 12" cards.

If you have a local Fry's, they (nearly all - I've only been to 5 on the west coast) have the exact case, by Silverstone.
 
no local fry's around or micro center. i do wish i had those places. also is there a big difference between the 955 black and the 925 Deneb.

also the 550 watt will handle a 5850? or should i just stick with the 650tx. i do plan on getting the 5850 i want to wait for a bit of a price drop
 
4LC4PON3 said:
no local fry's around or micro center. i do wish i had those places. also is there a big difference between the 955 black and the 925 Deneb.

also the 550 watt will handle a 5850? or should i just stick with the 650tx. i do plan on getting the 5850 i want to wait for a bit of a price drop
Click to expand...

The difference is enough to justify the extra $25 IMO. The Corsair 550VX would be more than enough for the HD 5850 or HD 5770. With that said, if you want to spend the extra $14, go for it.
 
A good 550W is more than enough for a 5850.. I'm running one with an OC'd (though undervolted) Q9550 on a 300W PSU with no problems, no PSU whine or signs of strain (excessive heat, screaming fan, etc.) even with hours and hours of Prime95 (x4) + FurMark.

Heat can be an issue but usually isn't if you've got your airflow down. My temps are pretty bad (terrible, actually) but I only have one 92mm fan in the case (and that's for the CPU HSF!) and my case's volume is only 11 liters or so, much of that stuffed with components. But that's the price I pay for almost silent operation -- the 5850 is the loudest thing in my case, and even that's damn quiet.
 
kool thats not bad tho. it only comes to be Grand Total: $857.35 thats with a CPU switch from the 925 to the 955.

if all is good i want to place this order. so if you have anymore thoughts on switches let me know
 
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition
XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX
MSI 785GM-E51 AM3 AMD 785G
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB
SILVERSTONE SUGO SG02-BF
LG DVD Burner

Grand Total: $857.35


what i was thinking is that i have a 120gb ps3 slim i just bought at bestbuy that im going to return and use the 330 bucks towerds a better case. im going to order everything else but the case and return the ps3 in the morning and buy the case tomorrow.
 
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I 2nd the VX550w PSU, It's a solid power supply at a cheap price. I have had a few brand name PSU's that died on me after a year of use but the Corsair is built like a tank.
 
the fans on that thing are terribly small, have a high pitch and a high RPM. you're going to have cooling issues without major modifications to the cooling solution. oh, and it will sound like a vacuum cleaner.
 
ok thats cool. ive been reading alot of reviews that say the same exact thing. im going to opt in for the "Da Box 100"

i really like the cooling options in Da Box
 
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If you want to get the case up off the floor and up onto the top of your desk without taking up a lot of desktop real estate and/or make your case easily more portable for LAN parties and general travel then SFF cases are an excellent choice. mATX mobos today can be very good overclockers too depending on the model. I think the SFF segment has greatly improved the last couple of years and more people are getting into it. I see this trend continuing in the future. Like others have said costs are about the same as far as mATX and ATX builds go.
 
yeah i see that with prices there really is not difference. the only thing you really have to change it the Mobo and case. everything else is basicly the same. i wasnt planning on any overclocking at all.

im heading to bestbuy to return my PS3 then im gonna come home and get a case ordered.

the only thing ive noticed is that there really isnt a big Variety of cases wich kind of throws me off. Im a big fan of cases with windows and addind in a cold cathode and some LED fans. I will see when i get home
 
4LC4PON3 said:
ok thats cool. ive been reading alot of reviews that say the same exact thing. im going to opt in for the "Da Box 100"

i really like the cooling options in Da Box
Click to expand...
You really shouldn't worry about heat that much. Either case is going to be fine..SG02 or Da Box.
 
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