HardOCP Officially Supported Projects

[Enigma]

I say folding@home only I believe that this is the best all round project..... we should just focus with this

 

[THL3]

Another challenge would be fun.

 

[termite60]

Starting another project would get my comnpetative juices flowing as their is no challange now. Remember how we fought back and forth for the title and now their is no challange and its boring not being challanged.

Although ultimately I am in it for altruistic reasons, I would like some incentive to check up on my team’s progress. Going to F@H doesn’t do it for me – I wasn’t there at the beginning and have no desire to be a drop in a bucket on a team that has nothing to prove.

I voted for R@H because it suits my hardware and I can install the client as a service on my office machines. I could go with WCG if that’s the way the vote works out, but I probably could only devote a few machines to F@H and so would probably go elsewhere with the rest of them.

I also have a couple of problems with this poll:
1. It is biased against a second project. Like FighterAce pointed out, even if a majority wants to go to another project, they will still be likely to lose because their vote will be split.
2. For the sake of order, it is the EIC’s prerogative to change polls and manage this decision as he sees fit; however, my paranoid mind read his post like this: “You jerks don’t know what you’re doing and I don’t like the way this poll is coming out, so we’re going to start again, and oh yeah, vote for F@H.

 

[Freemason115]

If this poll doesn't show by now, there is an intrest for a second project to continue. Sure tons of people who folded under UD didnt show up. But, at least we are making a show, that we want to fold for the Horde and under the same banner. All I'm asking is to let the project continue, and let the healing begin.

 

[Met-AL]

After UD ended, I just want to make sure I get involved with a project that will be around for a while and to me that means Folding @ Home.

 

[FrgMstr]

It would be nice to see King_N post something on hardfolding.com to draw in the people who go there, but not the forums that often.

There are no news updates that show anything about UD shutting down, the vote for a new project, nor the team leaders.

It would be nice to see *something* from someone who was so outspoken about these issues a few days ago to take part.

I would suggest asking him then instead of wishing on a star.

 

[FrgMstr]

My experience is asking/PM'ing King_N tends to be just that, wishing on a star for a response.

We don't need comments of this nature.

The next negative childish post in this thread will get you banned. I am not going to tolerate this type of attitude. It accomplishes nothing.

 

[KodiakStar]

Kyle,

While put "childishly," Marty is not too far off. It is a hard thing to be in contact with
him on many matters. There have been times where emails, PM's and contact through
the Hardfolding Chat has left us with no responses in the past with contests or news
items that we would like to see on the website.

It is a bit disheartening to see someone who was so into this subject just walk away from it
without putting his valuable input. As we all know he has been on the team since the start
and an integral part of the team as the webmaster as well.

 

[KodiakStar]

Sounds good to me.

 

[[H]ella|[H]ard]

I voted 4 one team only, but still think that if people want to run other things that more power to them but as far as the "team" lets just stick to one.

 

[Oldie]

After weighing this out, I voted for F@H and WCG. Both are great projects, and I think a decision in that direction will help to retain and add members; and also keeps a door open should 1 project go offline.

That said, I am more than happy to go along with the majority vote here. Without regard to the outcome of the decision, we have a great community of people here wanting to donate their personal resources to something worthy of them. In the history of distributed computing projects, many changes have occurred, but the type of person interested in helping has not. I'm glad to be associated with such a strong core of people like this. Whatever the project(s), thanks for your help in accomplishing such awesome things.

 

[SpoogeMonkey]

I have yet to see how a 2nd team affects someone who isn't going to participate in it, yet they vote against it and speak against it.

If you have 10 or 2 or 1 or 50 pc's and only plan to contribute to 1 project then do so. But why take part in a vote to stop others from doing so? And really, if you have no intention of being in a 2nd project anyway and vote against it in an election deciding the possiblity of doing it, then all you are doing is stopping others from doing something you have no intention of doing.

Then this is in effect saying "only ud'ers should get to vote". I voted and I never did any work for ud.....makes me wish I could retract my vote.

I'm don't understand why everyone is taking this so personally. UD is gone and time to move on.

I personally like the competition that the large team has. I like the friendly atmoshere that this forum has as well. Everyone who posts here, whether new or a lurking veteran is always welcomed and invited to share in the not-quite "genmay" freedom we enjoy here. Unfortunately it looks like the end of 1 project may cause the end of a "unified team spirit" of another.

 

[APOLLO]

I personally like the competition that the large team has. I like the friendly atmoshere that this forum has as well. Everyone who posts here, whether new or a lurking veteran is always welcomed and invited to share in the not-quite "genmay" freedom we enjoy here. Unfortunately it looks like the end of 1 project may cause the end of a "unified team spirit" of another.

Having some historical perspective, I wouldn't be overly concerned about a protracted internal dispute causing a permanent rift within the team. [H] DC polemics in the past may have inflicted a few bruises here and there, but the team endured and emerged stronger in the end. Many feared that the launching of GenMay's team would irreparably splinter [H] resulting in the loss of the #1 position or worse. That didn't happen. There were other very significant disputes before and since. We are still at the top, and if anything, stronger than ever.

 

[FrgMstr]

Having some historical perspective, I wouldn't be overly concerned about a protracted internal dispute causing a permanent rift within the team. [H] DC polemics in the past may have inflicted a few bruises here and there, but the team endured and emerged stronger in the end. Many feared that the launching of GenMay's team would irreparably splinter [H] resulting in the loss of the #1 position or worse. That didn't happen. There were other very significant disputes before and since. We are still at the top, and if anything, stronger than ever.

I have to agree with you on this. I have been doing the forum thing for quite a while, and sometimes along the way, people get pissed off and leave. I have yet to see that at anytime truly impact the heart and sould of anything [H]. The fact of the matter is that there are more team members concerned about the team than the politics and bickering surrounding it. That said, I have seen great communities born from [H] as well and I think that is a great thing too. People need to be doing what they want to do, and not following your own desires is truly the worst travesty of freedom that can be committed.

So for that stay, I love you guys and we will endure and for those that leave, I love you too and wish you the best of luck and hope you are happy with the results of your direction.

 

[magoo]

A year ago I "stumbled" in here one night.
What a great idea for all this stuff I had lying around, put it to work.
I'm going to stay put until I hear otherwise.

I am impressed with the effort put into this project by everyone here......I dont care what is selected or chosen......please remember it's the goal of a cure for these evil diseases that at the center here.

I hope everyone can just step back and take a big breath. We need all your efforts, whatever the project.

 

[FrgMstr]

I would hope nobody leaves over any of this. I for one will continue with team33 FaH. If no "official" secondary project is chosen, I'll continue on in an un-official one with my older gear. No biggie. It would be nice to have a 2nd project also being official, more projects, more competition etc. but it's not necessary and in the end as long as your folding that's all that really matters.

I've learned alot here and hope to contribue what I have learned to any who ask.

Fold on!

You have a very good grasp on what is going on here.

Seeing that over half the folks do not want a second project that will probably be where we start officially. Then once we have some leaders in place, we can see what happens. I like your attitude and your patience. Kudos brother.

 

[KodiakStar]

Funny how one event has turned the "tide" in many ways.... pebble in the lake sorta a thing.

 

[Connundrum1]

Funny how one event has turned the "tide" in many ways.... pebble in the lake sorta a thing.

seems like at first it was a pebble, then later we figured out the pebble was actually pure potassium.

overall i am saddened at our losses but i hope we can use this and create some policies that will keep us moving in the right direction for the future. out of all this a stronger DC will rise up. Lets get some strong team leaders to take up the reigns and in time hopefully tensions between the old guard will calm down and all will be well in the world.

 

[SpoogeMonkey]

Having some historical perspective, I wouldn't be overly concerned about a protracted internal dispute causing a permanent rift within the team. [H] DC polemics in the past may have inflicted a few bruises here and there, but the team endured and emerged stronger in the end. Many feared that the launching of GenMay's team would irreparably splinter [H] resulting in the loss of the #1 position or worse. That didn't happen. There were other very significant disputes before and since. We are still at the top, and if anything, stronger than ever.

I've been through those days here as well. The previous "unbeatable" score has been torn down. Lot's of new blood has come in and replaced the old.

I never intended to sound like the whole team would meet it's demise, or imply I was leaving. But it's just silly to see so many people get their feelings hurt/upset over something so trivial as to whose tag-line you put your name under. In the last few days I've seen too many folks saying "I'm leaving" and "Me too!'s" I thought we were all adults here. This is the one sub-forum here where the average age is 25 and the iq is above 7th grade. Nothing against you teenagers, but this has always been a more "mature" area and not infested with fan boys.

I will say I voted for the single team, but only as an interim solution. We're not the #1 team for no reason. Let's get behind one project for awhile, set new new goals and let the people behind the science know we're serious. Make them continue to diversify their client to run on more hardware, improve the software, increase their hardware to meet our demands and just maybe the guys at Stanford will start to get the recognition they deserve and get more funding, more people, etc so all this research makes a difference in our life times!

/steps off soapbox. we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Xilikon]

And in the likely event that we will support just 1 project, this doesn't mean we will lock others projects out forever. I think we need some time to rebuild ourselves, set the new rules to avoid any future poo fights then when we are well settled, we may redo this. This will also let us review the new projects in a long term perspective before we can take a better decision.

 

[MixManSC]

Just - wow. I'll finally chime in again in this thread. I'm saddened to see we have lost some great members and wish them the best. Time to move forward though and see this group being a team again. The infighting and bickering had to stop somehow. I've finally decided for now that I'm going to vote for FAH only. This is for the short term though as I personally feel that with everything that has been going on we really need to just get our shit together and adding another complexity is just going to slow and or complicate the process of our healing and moving forward. I think we need to concentrate our efforts on getting things in order here and really rallying together as a TEAM again. In the longer run I do think a second project is a great idea and something we should do to give more options for the team but I'd personally say lets look at that later and concentrate on just getting us all back on the the right track for the immediate short term.

 

[SmokeRngs]

Just - wow. I'll finally chime in again in this thread. I'm saddened to see we have lost some great members and wish them the best. Time to move forward though and see this group being a team again. The infighting and bickering had to stop somehow. I've finally decided for now that I'm going to vote for FAH only. This is for the short term though as I personally feel that with everything that has been going on we really need to just get our shit together and adding another complexity is just going to slow and or complicate the process of our healing and moving forward. I think we need to concentrate our efforts on getting things in order here and really rallying together as a TEAM again. In the longer run I do think a second project is a great idea and something we should do to give more options for the team but I'd personally say lets look at that later and concentrate on just getting us all back on the the right track for the immediate short term.

I still don't think very many people realize what this does. While one team sounds like a great sound bite, it's only going to drive off people that would have otherwise stayed. How can you call running off and pushing away a bunch of old team members as good for and strengthening the team?

Please, someone give me the reasons why you think this is so. No one has done this. Everyone has repeated the same thing: "It's good for the team." I want to see the reasons. I want them spelled out. Myself and many others have given you a myriad of reasons why this is not so. Please, someone refute our points. We have refuted yours and we want you to refute ours.

This has been like a goddamn political campaign with one side being nothing but a broken record repeating the same lines but with no proof to back up their claims. If you believe so strongly that alienating a large number of people is good for the team, then explain it in childish terms so the rest of us arguing otherwise can understand since it's obvious we don't.

Winning a battle like this means jack shit if you don't use logic and reasoning to change the minds of those with opposing views. Until I see some real arguments and reasons, I'm going to continue to believe every person that votes for one team only is full of BS.

 

[KodiakStar]

Winning a battle like this means jack shit if you don't use logic and reasoning to change the minds of those with opposing views. Until I see some real arguments and reasons, I'm going to continue to believe every person that votes for one team only is full of BS.

First, this isn't a "battle." No need to make more of it then it actually is.

People vote for many different reasons, just like how they fold for different reasons.
The important part is that they are folding. Going around cussing and saying other
team members are full of BS is not a good way to try to retain members, rather it
pisses others off and makes it *into* a battle.

 

[SmokeRngs]

First, this isn't a "battle." No need to make more of it then it actually is.

People vote for many different reasons, just like how they fold for different reasons.
The important part is that they are folding. Going around cussing and saying other
team members are full of BS is not a good way to try to retain members, rather it
pisses others off and makes it *into* a battle.

This is a battle considering there are different choices. It's not my fault you do not have anything to back up your side of the argument. Your post is exactly what I'm talking about. Instead of backing up your decision with explanations and logic, you are trying to kill any type of discussion. If people want to vote, then they need to post the reasons why they voted as they did. If they cannot back up their reasons and arguments for or against a choice, then it's not very convincing.

Rule #1 in a debate/argument: Be prepared to defend your answers and your choices with logical and informative statements.

 

[KodiakStar]

Your argument is full of smoke.

If you noticed, I voted for two teams, as to not alienate people on our team, and give choices to those who want to be a part of the team.

Rule #1 in debate is know your opponent.

And for the record, this is a vote. Not a debate.
As it stands, the winner will be pulled from numbers, not who has the best argument.
Although the arguments may help sway people to your "vote."

I am not trying to stop discussion, rather, I would like to see CONSTRUCTIVE discussion, rather then battle this, fight that, and all the cussing.

 

[MixManSC]

I certainly do not want to alienate or push away any members of our group. For me I just feel like things are so broken apart right now that we need to take one step at a time and getting some leadership implemented is key to moving forward as a group. I did state that I do think a second project is a good idea and something I feel like we should do. I do feel that a second project will be good for the group and would very likely even put some of my own resources towards a second project. It's just that this is being presented to us as a decision to make right now when I feel like we really need to look first at making sure we have some leadership and guidance. Let the dust settle a little then lets put some options for a second "officially" supported project on the table to vote on. In the short term I definitely think those testing other projects should continue to do so - under an [H]orde group name as well. This way when the group as a whole moves toward official support we already have a nice head start and will have some excellent tips and advice coming from those who have been testing it.

SR - I see your point and really just want to see this group move forward. It was definitely not my intention to push toward alienating or further splintering the members here. That's the last thing I want to see happen. Right now on the second project ideas I do personally like the WCG one better though. Also - you got any spare ink?

 

[KodiakStar]

Also note, while I voted for WCG, I still am on the fence if it is the best project for us.
So far I have tried R@H, but I think we need more research to see which project is best
for the [H].

However, out of the two projects WCG had more votes, so I decided to put my weight
towards WCG over R@H.

Before you make blanket accusations you should do your homework.

 

[SmokeRngs]

SR - I see your point and really just want to see this group move forward. It was definitely not my intention to push toward alienating or further splintering the members here. That's the last thing I want to see happen. Right now on the second project ideas I do personally like the WCG one better though. Also - you got any spare ink?

Eliminating a second team right off the bat will alienate and drive off a lot of people. And if you think most will come back, you are mistaken. Blowing off a large chunk of people sure as hell won't help the team. Might it push more people onto the only team left, yes. But what does that say about the group as a team? To me it says nothing more than the team is not willing to support its own members. Those members are the people that previously did UD. Many of them have no desire to run F@H. Why kick them out of the door? They sure as hell aren't going to be happy about being tossed to the side just because they did not and do not want to run F@H. Hell, the only thing I've run since the completion of G@H is F@H2. I just hate seeing those of the team being shoved to the side as if they don't matter. If the team is important, then why are these other members of the team not important?

And I do have a little bit of ink. Didn't plan on having a chance to use any of it until tonight but my son can't go to school and I usual babysitters can't take off work either.

 

[SmokeRngs]

Your argument is full of smoke.

If you noticed, I voted for two teams, as to not alienate people on our team, and give choices to those who want to be a part of the team.

Rule #1 in debate is know your opponent.

And for the record, this is a vote. Not a debate.
As it stands, the winner will be pulled from numbers, not who has the best argument.
Although the arguments may help sway people to your "vote."

I am not trying to stop discussion, rather, I would like to see CONSTRUCTIVE discussion, rather then battle this, fight that, and all the cussing.

Your posts have been nothing but defending the lack of reasons for the F@H crowd. This is a discussion. People have the chance to read the thread before voting and then make a decision. DC used to be about discussion. You are advocating that this has nothing to do with discussion and is nothing more than a blind vote.

What you voted doesn't really matter if you are trying to subvert discussion which is exactly what you are trying to do.

I am trying to get constructive discussion out there. It's tough to do when one side won't actually discuss anything. I've only seen buzz words and catch phrases. If I have to do something to draw them out and make them defend their decisions, I will do so. If it means prodding them with statements which I have made to get them to do this, then I am proud that I have done so. Repeating the same phrases over and over doesn't make you right.

 

[SmokeRngs]

However, out of the two projects WCG had more votes, so I decided to put my weight
towards WCG over R@H.

People come into this thread, look at the numbers and decide they want to be on the "winning side" and just throw their vote to F@H only. I aim to try and change that with my discussions and reasons which are located in this thread. I post in the hopes that I can change these people's minds instead of blindly voting for the most likely winner.

This is basically what you did. You didn't do the research but just went with the option that had more votes as it looked to be the more likely winner out of the choices you had. Your vote was based on the more likely winner out of the two, not on the merits of the project or decision. This is exactly what I am trying to stop.

If those wanting F@H only believe in their choice strongly, then they will back up their choice with reasons and logic in order to persuade people to their side. The lack of exactly that is rather telling in one way.

 

[KodiakStar]

Actually, all the threads about WCG and the flexibility of it influenced me along with people saying it worked better on their older boxen. Anyways.

 

[Xilikon]

IMHO, the poll is a bit flawed because there is also a big bunch of ppl who doesn't care which way to go as some will stay with F@H only and others will go with a new project, no matter which one. This is similar to proposing a choice of chocolate or vanilla cake to someone who dislike all cakes... With a forced choice, he will pick either one randomly.

What we needed to weed off useless votes is a "I don't care" choice. This will leave the true votes be cast. Myself, I voted for F@H with WCG as 2nd project since I believe having 2 teams will bring more choice for those who wanted to join the [H]orde. However, as I currenly do F@H only, I don't care too, so my vote is not very useful.

 

[Anderu]

The only thing I feel I can interject at this point would be to ask folks to consider that, sometimes the best thing is not necessarily the easiest thing.

I know better than most how tumultuous and difficult it can be trying to keep two teams going simultaneously. I have said this before, but I was instrumental years ago in getting UD recognized/officially backed, and it was to say the least an ugly mess at the time. I was viewed as an interloper, and folks accused me of trying to bleed members of the mainly supported project over to the UD front. From that point on, myself and most of the other members of the UD effort kept a low profile, and just did what we did. Even when the atmosphere appeared to be a little more tolerant, we never became a real presence because the trust factor had never really been re-established. I know that if a second team is established, we will have the will and the wisdom to make sure it is done better this time.

I think maintaining two teams, if for no reason more than the fact that it would give folks at least one alternative to F@H, would be worth the investment of time and effort. I know that some folks will leave no matter what we do, but if we go with a single project, even temporarily, we take an "acceptable losses" frame of mind. If we go forward knowing that, and are willing to simply write-off a certain percentage of our members, let us be clear about the consequences. Also, even if this is meant to be a temporary situation, most folks would assume (and correctly so), that trying to establish a secondary project later would be much more difficult than just doing it outright, before we lose those members.

I hope that these points are not viewed as inflammatory or overly aggressive, as that is not my intention. I really don't want to get into a protracted debate about all of this. All I can do is offer my take, as a long standing member of the UD team. All I am asking is for the voting populace to take into consideration, a slightly larger picture, and a vision that looks a little farther down the line. I know we will all benefit if we can do that.

Just to offer a little perspective, I am currently crunching for F@H, but I still believe in the necessity of a 2nd project, even if I personally don't have any immediate plans to participate.

 

[wraieghaeien]

I personally like the idea, of perhaps a new poll.

I dont care one way or another
Fah only
Fah + something else.


At that point in time, we can get into the hard discussion about what Other thing we need.

 

[[BRO]Alaskan]

I personally like the idea, of perhaps a new poll.

I dont care one way or another
Fah only
Fah + something else.


At that point in time, we can get into the hard discussion about what Other thing we need.

Much better poll. Find out if we want another project then if the results are positive figure out what it should be.

 

[FrgMstr]

Considering still over half of the members here are voting for one official project and at the moment we only have one official project, I think it is best it stay that way until we get organized. At that time should the team leaders and [H]orde decide otherwise, greatness.

 

[uzor]

Well, I've lurked in here for quite some time, but mostly haven't posted much. I'm not going to vote in the official poll for two reasons - It seems I showed up late to the party and it wouldn't sway the overall anyways, and that I haven't been around in here to have a full understanding of the background that has brought us to where we are.

Given that, let me tell you all how I happened to get involved in folding here, since it is kind of pertinent to the discussion at hand.

Don't remember who I asked about it initially, but I first ventured in here after seeing/asking about the folding badges that some of the members had started "wearing" (these were the old style ones back then) in GenMay and other parts of the forum. I read through the FAQs and Stickies, and eventually found myself at hardfolding.com. At the site, I saw the two (maybe 3... don't recall if genome was still running) different projects that "we" were supporting, and read a little about each to see what the deal was, and which would be "better" for me. The one thing that I recall as having been sorely lacking (both here and there) is some kind of guideline stating WHEN a given machine would be better suited for one project over another. In my recent "catch-up" reading the past day or two, I've come to see that, among other things, one of the reasons people were folding for UD is that it was more forgiving of older hardware - i.e. that a machine that was too slow to "contribute" to F@H, could still be productive on UD. That seems to me right there to be reason enough to have some type of presence, official or otherwise, in an alternate project - it means more boxen folding for the cause.

Anyways, back to the story...I ended up choosing to go with F@H at the time mostly because it had more members and seemed to be the bigger, more popular client (yeah, I chose it because it was the popular kid in school). Since then, however, I've come into a few machines that probably would have been better suited to UD, but I didn't know when (at what computing age) a given machine would be more productive on a project other than F@H. Regardless of the outcome here, I have some machines that probably should switch to an alternate project because of their age.

Now, what I am suggesting, is that in the FAQ/"noobie's guide to getting started", something be mentioned about what machines are "too old" to fold for F@H. I realize that this would be somewhat of an arbitrary cut-off, but I feel it would be beneficial to the cause in the long run. Now, I would also add a section about "what if my computer is too old to efficiently run F@H?" in which a few other projects are mentioned. These mentions do not need to be in a "we are officially endorsing these other programs" sort of tone, mere that "these projects are generally kinder on older hardware". The only other thing that might be nice is a statement of some kind of common team name/number that we can enter when setting up the client if we choose to contribute to one of the "unofficial projects". Not that it would be an endorsement of the team as official, merely that "the guys that fold for this generally use 24599 (or whatever) as their team number." and let them know they are on their own from there on with that project.


This seems to have gotten kinda long/rambly, so let me sum up:

• 
  I would have also folded for UD if I had known it was better for older hardware, but never did, cause I didn't know that when it would have mattered.
• I think that, assuming F@H isn't a good fit for all hardware, having an alternate project that is, would be beneficial.
• Regardless whether this alternate project is official or not, some mention of minimum productive F@H HW specs ought to be made in the FAQ, and what else is out there that might be a better fit for those that don't meet the grade.
• Bonus cool points awarded if an "unofficial team name" were mentioned in said FAQ so that those that want to try one of the alternate projects out, can do so together.

 

[Tigerbiten]

I'm another one not going to vote because I honistly dont know which one is best.
I've only folded so only know folding and I dont plan to and cannot afford to expand into another project.
I can see how having only one project will alienate some who dont want to fold.
But I can also see how it would cut down on intra-team squabbles.
What I would like to see would be another poll set up so you show your preferances in respect to running folding verses a second project .........

1:- Folding only, no second project.
2:- Mostly folding but a few slower/faster boxen on a second project.
3:- 50/50 split between projects.
4:- Most boxen on a second project & only a few faster/slower ones folding.
5:- All my boxen on a second project & none folding.

The true cut off for when a boxen is to slow to fold is down in the 300-400 Mhz range.
But at those speeds your talking about only doing one or two protiens a month.
Saying that I've already retired anything that cannot run the SMP or GPU client because of the bonuses.

Luck ............

 

[BillR]

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1188796

 

[brycejones]

I voted to support both FAH and WCG. As a significant supporter of both FAH and UD in the past I like the idea of running two projects. I also like the idea that if we start working on WCG we will have the challange once again of having to work our way up in the rankings. This brings a level of excitement that frankly has been lost with FAH for me. However FAH should always be our primary project and we should always work to keep our number one ranking there.