Halo Infinite

KazeoHin said:
I disagree. Halo was incredibly popular for a reason, and since Halo 3, there really hasn't been anything quite like it. 343 have just released turd after turd for nearly 2 decades. The open world aspect of Infinite was fine, it's just that 343 handled it poorly, with only ONE biome type, incredibly repetitive mission design etc.

Just because they couldn't make Halo work does not mean Halo doesn't work, fans for AGES have been saying 343 was missing the point by a mile by trying to speed up the combat and turn Halo into a head-clicker: and what do you know: 343's games suck and have always shown to be overshadowed by their more floaty and pulpy predecessors.
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They failed horribly at the remaster of Halo CE. Whoever decided they should make actual sequels... They should have shuttered the studio. Everything they do is garbage in so many ways.

If you're interested in drama there's a plethora of YouTube videos going over how 343 hated Bungie and treated all the Bungie people like trash and wanted to make Halo into their own game. And a bunch of other videos about how terrible all the 343 games are and how they completely failed to understand what made Halo great, how their art is trash in the remasters, etc. There's probably thousands of videos.
 
I guess changing their name to Halo Studios is fitting since the only games they seem to make are Halo games...they are not even pretending that they are going to try something outside of Halo
 
Zorachus said:
I grew up a PC gamer in the 80's and 90's. To me cool shooters were Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake and Unreal.

First person shooters are designed and meant to be played with a keyboard + mouse.

Then years later Microshaft buys out Bungie and has them create a shooter for the brand new Xbox, but strangely makes it a kiddy arcade gamepad control type thing.

Halo was never as cool as Doom or Quake. It was a wannabe ripoff.

Halo has run its course. It's a mediocre franchise that just needs to disappear, it's a generic paint by numbers, lame shooter.
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That's a pretty lame take, in my opinion.

I grew up on those exact same games. I've spent thousands of hours on Quake 2 multiplayer, and even more in UT (I even was professionally involved with the UT reboot project before Epic became a Fortnite Engine company). Those games are awesome and I still fire up Duke3D for co-op shenanigans.

And I can Say Halo is a unique and fun experience you can't have with those other games, and no other game has come close to capturing the single-player, co-op and multiplayer gameplay feel that Halo 1, 2 and 3 had, and personally, Quake has fallen off harder than Halo. Lucky Doom is at least still around and doing well, it even has a button you press to instantly punch and a separate button to instantly toss a grenade. Do you know what game did that first?

Dismissing a game because it uses a controller is a pretty "old man yells at cloud" moment, Some of the most influential pieces of interactive art have been controller-only experiences. I know ASD will give people affected by it a aversion to change or developing habits under unfamiliar circumstances so I won't say it's anyone's FAULT for not wanting to learn a new control scheme, but I would say at least understand that most people don't prefer a mouse-keyboard, and will gladly give up precision for comfort.
 
KazeoHin said:
That's a pretty lame take, in my opinion.

I grew up on those exact same games. I've spent thousands of hours on Quake 2 multiplayer, and even more in UT (I even was professionally involved with the UT reboot project before Epic became a Fortnite Engine company). Those games are awesome and I still fire up Duke3D for co-op shenanigans.

And I can Say Halo is a unique and fun experience you can't have with those other games, and no other game has come close to capturing the single-player, co-op and multiplayer gameplay feel that Halo 1, 2 and 3 had, and personally, Quake has fallen off harder than Halo. Lucky Doom is at least still around and doing well, it even has a button you press to instantly punch and a separate button to instantly toss a grenade. Do you know what game did that first?

Dismissing a game because it uses a controller is a pretty "old man yells at cloud" moment, Some of the most influential pieces of interactive art have been controller-only experiences. I know ASD will give people affected by it a aversion to change or developing habits under unfamiliar circumstances so I won't say it's anyone's FAULT for not wanting to learn a new control scheme, but I would say at least understand that most people don't prefer a mouse-keyboard, and will gladly give up precision for comfort.
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Heh, it's funny people are still mad Halo became a console game 20 years later.

I would have rather had it on PC at the time but I'm actually glad it ended up on Xbox. I got to play coop and split screen with a bunch of my friends In person. And had a ton of LAN parties with 4 people to an Xbox and TV. With a ton of people that never would have been able to bring PCs. It was just way easier to setup. I actually ended up meeting a ton of friends going to different Halo CE lan parties. Way more than with PC games, because playing online was just easier and you couldn't pack up your whole PC setup in 30 seconds like you could with an Xbox.
 
KazeoHin said:
I disagree. Halo was incredibly popular for a reason, and since Halo 3, there really hasn't been anything quite like it. 343 have just released turd after turd for nearly 2 decades. The open world aspect of Infinite was fine, it's just that 343 handled it poorly, with only ONE biome type, incredibly repetitive mission design etc.

Just because they couldn't make Halo work does not mean Halo doesn't work, fans for AGES have been saying 343 was missing the point by a mile by trying to speed up the combat and turn Halo into a head-clicker: and what do you know: 343's games suck and have always shown to be overshadowed by their more floaty and pulpy predecessors.
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Even if they replicated the floatly, slow motion like movement of the original games I don't think it will be that popular. It just plays, well, poorly. I don't think the demand is there for a weightless floaty type of FPS. That doesn't mean 343 isn't also screwing up the new Halo games. I don't think enough people will want to play that old, dated gameplay style and even if they did the Halo brand isn't quite what it used to be.

IMO time to let Halo rest. 343 can do another sci fi FPS that doesn't suck, at least if the can manage that which remains to be seen, without dragging the Halo name through the mud.
 
Flogger23m said:
Even if they replicated the floatly, slow motion like movement of the original games I don't think it will be that popular. It just plays, well, poorly. I don't think the demand is there for a weightless floaty type of FPS. That doesn't mean 343 isn't also screwing up the new Halo games. I don't think enough people will want to play that old, dated gameplay style and even if they did the Halo brand isn't quite what it used to be.

IMO time to let Halo rest. 343 can do another sci fi FPS that doesn't suck, at least if the can manage that which remains to be seen, without dragging the Halo name through the mud.
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I thought the campaign, enemies and game-feel of Halo Infinite was great! It was mostly just copy-pasted Halo 3, floaty and slow, but it felt good, even today with a KB/M. The grappling-hook was honestly a godsend that was so much fun to use to try to exploit the game or create shortcuts, it should be a standard in the future. The issue is that the amazing control, enemies, tools, vehicles... it was all tossed into a single out-door biome and 3 copy-pasted indoor environments with piss-poor writing, no stakes and forgettable characters that took 15 hours to complete.

If Halo Infinite had Campaign expansions that added tons of environments a new story, it would have been amazing.

But the issue here is that they tried to make it a Overwatch/Fortninite/CS Free-To-Play competitor. Halo was NEVER a head-clicker.

Halo had a decent competitive scene but the MAGIC was always the cooperation either in Co-Op, PVE or in team-vs-team objective based battles. It didn't matter how amazing your head-clicking was, a coordinated strategy was required to win the battle. The strategy was always more influential than the raw twitch skill. Holding power weapons, even if they're empty, prevented them from spawning in the battlefield; Rush an objective with a powerful vehicle could just cause that vehicle to be captured, completely screwing your whole game.
 
Halo is the Phish of first person shooters.

The last "good" Halo game was Halo 2.
 
grifter_66 said:
Halo is the Phish of first person shooters.

The last "good" Halo game was Halo 2.
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I mean, I loved Halo 2, but gameplay wise: Halo 3 was basically Halo 2 with better graphics. The campaign was weaker in Halo 3, I think, Halo 2 had some amazing moments.
 
KazeoHin said:
I thought the campaign, enemies and game-feel of Halo Infinite was great! It was mostly just copy-pasted Halo 3, floaty and slow, but it felt good, even today with a KB/M.
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Infinite, mechanically was much, much faster and less floaty than Halo CE/2/3. Might be wrong about 3 don't recall.
 
KazeoHin said:
That's a pretty lame take, in my opinion.

I grew up on those exact same games. I've spent thousands of hours on Quake 2 multiplayer, and even more in UT (I even was professionally involved with the UT reboot project before Epic became a Fortnite Engine company). Those games are awesome and I still fire up Duke3D for co-op shenanigans.

And I can Say Halo is a unique and fun experience you can't have with those other games, and no other game has come close to capturing the single-player, co-op and multiplayer gameplay feel that Halo 1, 2 and 3 had, and personally, Quake has fallen off harder than Halo. Lucky Doom is at least still around and doing well, it even has a button you press to instantly punch and a separate button to instantly toss a grenade. Do you know what game did that first?

Dismissing a game because it uses a controller is a pretty "old man yells at cloud" moment, Some of the most influential pieces of interactive art have been controller-only experiences. I know ASD will give people affected by it a aversion to change or developing habits under unfamiliar circumstances so I won't say it's anyone's FAULT for not wanting to learn a new control scheme, but I would say at least understand that most people don't prefer a mouse-keyboard, and will gladly give up precision for comfort.
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Halo plays best with mouse & keyboard just like any other shooter.
grifter_66 said:
Halo is the Phish of first person shooters.

The last "good" Halo game was Halo 2.
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Halo 2 was trash. The Arbiter sections were lame as fuck, and you have to play nearly 70% of the game as him. Halo 3 was the last good one.
 
Zorachus said:
I grew up a PC gamer in the 80's and 90's. To me cool shooters were Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake and Unreal.

First person shooters are designed and meant to be played with a keyboard + mouse.

Then years later Microshaft buys out Bungie and has them create a shooter for the brand new Xbox, but strangely makes it a kiddy arcade gamepad control type thing.

Halo was never as cool as Doom or Quake. It was a wannabe ripoff.

Halo has run its course. It's a mediocre franchise that just needs to disappear, it's a generic paint by numbers, lame shooter.
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Halo innovated, just like half-life innovated and both games changed the genre. A lot more games copied halo than id's or epic games' shooters. The two weapon system that most newer FPS games use originates from Halo and lots of other stuff that Halo made "must have" for shooters. Games like Quake, Unreal etc. only influenced shooters for a few years while the legacy of Halo and Half-life is still felt today.

Halo was made for dual analog sticks so it never played as well on keyboard and mouse, but was great fun on xbox.
 
evhvis said:
Halo was made for dual analog sticks so it never played as well on keyboard and mouse
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evhvis said:
The two weapon system that most newer FPS games use originates from Halo and lots of other stuff that Halo made "must have" for shooters.
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Not really. Ghost Recon came out around the same time and if I recall had 2 weapons, primary and secondary. Was a natural progression though, any game wanting to add some aspects of realism or immersion were going to do it eventually.
 
Flogger23m said:
Not really. Ghost Recon came out around the same time and if I recall had 2 weapons, primary and secondary. Was a natural progression though, any game wanting to add some aspects of realism or immersion were going to do it eventually.
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Essentially:

if Halo did something first that is now universal: It's just naturally how things would have progressed.

if Halo did something the same as other games: It's derivative and just a copycat

if Halo did something unique that other games didn't do: It's a baby game for controllers


Noted.
 
KazeoHin said:
Essentially:

if Halo did something first that is now universal: It's just naturally how things would have progressed.

if Halo did something the same as other games: It's derivative and just a copycat

if Halo did something unique that other games didn't do: It's a baby game for controllers


Noted.
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What, exactly, did Halo do that was so great? What I think makes the first game special is it combined concepts from linear narratives like Half-Life and combined it with large open world exploration like Unreal, and it combined it with tight gameplay honed to a razor's edge. It took what came before and made it better, but there is no denying that the slower and floatier movement was made with controllers in mind. I don't think anybody here is saying that Halo is a bad game by any means, it's just not as special as some people make it out to be.
 
Armenius said:
What, exactly, did Halo do that was so great? What I think makes the first game special is it combined concepts from linear narratives like Half-Life and combined it with large open world exploration like Unreal, and it combined it with tight gameplay honed to a razor's edge. It took what came before and made it better, but there is no denying that the slower and floatier movement was made with controllers in mind. I don't think anybody here is saying that Halo is a bad game by any means, it's just not as special as some people make it out to be.
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There are definitely people in this very thread dismissing Halo as a 'baby game' and honestly, I'm not sure where it comes from, to be honest? I was an avid PC gamer who loved those classics, but the first time I played Halo at a random mate-of-a-mate's place in highschool (Blood Gulch 4-playter split-screen CTF, can still picture it) I couldn't get enough. I was hooked. Then I got into the story, then the LAN parties, the culture, the sequels, the competitive multiplayer... All while my friends and I ALSO liked playing Battlefield 1942 and Unreal Tournament on PC. It was never "Oh CONSLOE SUCKS FUCK THIS GAME BECAUSE JOYSTICK" it was a game. We played it.

In the absence of ANY "PC Gamer Politics" Halo is fantastic. Is a controller as precise as a mouse? No, lol. Was that ever why people liked Halo? Because clicking heads is so easy and seamless? No. The physics were floaty and weird: That didn't mean "Not Fun". It was unlike any other game you could get at that time. I REALLY don't think anyone was really thinking to themselves "ah, you know, not having a mouse ruins my experience" while they're rushing blue base with a fully loaded warthog managing to get a perfect moment in between enemy spawns, waiting nervously for my gunner and side-saddle to rush out under-fire with the enemy flag.

As for what Halo did that was unheard of before but is just "Normal" now:

Seamless, physics-based vehicles that have multiple seats any player or AI can take. Remember when games had "vehicle levels"? Those levels that forced your character into a car or jet that you HAD to finish or else you couldn't get back to the REAL game? In Halo, you could do every level on foot if you were stubborn, or you could force a warthog into the cramped indoor spaces and drive around on the walls just for fun. You can hop out of the drivers seat, hop onto the gun, wipe out a squad of baddies then run over on foot to get ammo and grenades then hop back in the driver's seat, The entire time your friend is nagging you in the side-saddle.

Remember switching to the "grenade" weapon, throwing a grenade, then switching back to your gun? In Halo, you have a single button that will throw a grenade, at any time. No juggling your weapons, no memorizing what number your grenades are hotkeyed to.

One-button Melee as well. No switching to your "knife" weapon or "fist" slot. One button will launch a fist so you don't have to juggle your hotkeys when an enemy gets WAY too close.

Halo introduced a recharging health system to the masses, and this became almost ubiquitous across so many genres once done. Halo does have limited, non-recharging health, as well, but it also added a recharging shield. Both pools take various types of damage in different ways.
 
sharknice said:
This guy is a producer for Halo Studios

View attachment 684462

Lol, lmao even

Halo Studios is just 343 changing their pronouns. New name, same shitty company, same shitty people.
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agreed.

This was my response to someone asking me about the "Halo Studios" news:

I'm cynical, to be honest. 343 made a lot of promises over the near 2-decades it took for them to make 3 mediocre and loveless games. The studio has new management, and changed it's name, but it's not a new studio. They didn't admit any of their wrongs, they made vague promises with weasel words avoiding ANYTHING that resembles responsibility, I'm happy to see them pander to fans to show us that they know what we want to see, but I've seen teenage Indian youtubers kit-bash cool photo-realistic halo scenes in Unreal Engine as a hobby. 343 showing that they needed a team of salaried workers to do it is showing me that they have nothing to really show and wanted to announce literally anything to calm the community. I'm not ready to predict their fall, but once bitten, twice shy when it comes to how 343 has handled one of my favourite franchises.
 
KazeoHin said:
Essentially:

if Halo did something first that is now universal: It's just naturally how things would have progressed.

if Halo did something the same as other games: It's derivative and just a copycat

if Halo did something unique that other games didn't do: It's a baby game for controllers


Noted.
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Well Ghost Recon came out before Halo did. Then there was Rogue Spear. Didn't Delta Force 2 have 2 weapon limits? And the original? Those two games came out in 1999.

Edit: Also Operation Flashpoint.

sharknice said:
This guy is a producer for Halo Studios

View attachment 684462

Lol, lmao even

Halo Studios is just 343 changing their pronouns. New name, same shitty company, same shitty people.
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This is why the modern game industry is largely doomed to half-assed games, and why CoD doesn't even attempt to make realistic looking guns anymore.

KazeoHin said:
Remember switching to the "grenade" weapon, throwing a grenade, then switching back to your gun? In Halo, you have a single button that will throw a grenade, at any time. No juggling your weapons, no memorizing what number your grenades are hotkeyed to.

One-button Melee as well. No switching to your "knife" weapon or "fist" slot. One button will launch a fist so you don't have to juggle your hotkeys when an enemy gets WAY too close.
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Yeah Halo did popularize quick grenade and quick melee, not sure if it was the first. Many games still have select grenades or give an option for both.
 
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Flogger23m said:
Yeah Halo did popularize quick grenade and quick melee, not sure if it was the first. Many games still have select grenades or give an option for both.
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Starsiege: Tribes had dedicated grenade and mine buttons. Seymour was quite proficient at 'mine-disc'ing back in the day.

As for Halo, moving to UE5 is probably a good choice. Not sure if it was more with the assets used than the engine itself, but Infinite didn't feel like a big leap graphically over the previous games. The single player campaign was pretty forgettable (and didn't make much sense), but the multiplayer was still good. I don't play multiplayer very often anymore, but Infinite had me play a few 'seasons' (or whatever they called them) regularly. Hoping the switch to UE5 for the next title will allow even more massive maps, player counts, and vehicles - that could be a good time.
 
Either way, no one could argue that Halo wasn’t incredibly impactful. I actually had a great time with this campaign, but I do feel like there’s little left to do with the IP.
 
Even if Halo wasn't the first game to do any one thing like regenerating health, the quick grenade, quick melee buttons, or anything else it is the game that made these systems popular. I can't believe anyone would argue differently. Even Ghost Recon, which has a dedicated fan base probably didn't have a quarter of Halo's audience. Halo was far more accessible to the masses.

Also, Halo Combat Evolved for PC played great with mouse and keyboard. Oh, it had its issues but keyboard / mouse control wasn't one of them.
 
Dan_D said:
Even if Halo wasn't the first game to do any one thing like regenerating health, the quick grenade, quick melee buttons, or anything else it is the game that made these systems popular. I can't believe anyone would argue differently. Even Ghost Recon, which has a dedicated fan base probably didn't have a quarter of Halo's audience. Halo was far more accessible to the masses.

Also, Halo Combat Evolved for PC played great with mouse and keyboard. Oh, it had its issues but keyboard / mouse control wasn't one of them.
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Yeah Halo PC worked fine with keyboard and mouse. It actually had poor controller support. They removed analog movement (the only advantage a controller has). The josytick would only move 8 directions at one speed. They also removed all the aim assist.
 
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I haven't played this game in about 2 years definitely the best Halo game the campaign isn't as bad as pervious games. The combat leaves something to be desired I know MP is a blast though but they give you bigger weapons for QOL.
 
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I haven't played it at all, yet. I was working my way through the series, but got pissed off at Halo 2 at the same spot I usually do and dropped it.
 
Armenius said:
I haven't played it at all, yet. I was working my way through the series, but got pissed off at Halo 2 at the same spot I usually do and dropped it.
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That's ok. Halo 1 has the best campaign and multiplayer of all the halos anyways, so you get to repeatedly enjoy the cream of the crop.
 
sharknice said:
That's ok. Halo 1 has the best campaign and multiplayer of all the halos anyways, so you get to repeatedly enjoy the cream of the crop.
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Except for those damned Library levels. But, yeah, Halo 1 (especially on Legendary) was the best of the series.
 
halo 2 or 3, legendary, had a save spot in this room with the brutes that I died like 50x fucking times. took forever to advance bc you start with just a plasma pistol
 
Rev. Night said:
halo 2 or 3, legendary, had a save spot in this room with the brutes that I died like 50x fucking times. took forever to advance bc you start with just a plasma pistol
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So you had to kite, strafe & bunny hop like crazy?
 
Rev. Night said:
halo 2 or 3, legendary, had a save spot in this room with the brutes that I died like 50x fucking times. took forever to advance bc you start with just a plasma pistol
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I've had something that happen before.
If you get a bad checkpoint like that it's better to just restart the level somettimes.
 
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