Hacker Group Promises Doom for Sony

rampantandroid said:
Who wants to bet MS is smart enough to not store plain text passwords and allow SQL injection?
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If the hackers wanted to hack LIVE, they would make it look like it was stored in plain text. Don't be so ignorant, these guys can most likely tear Microsoft a new one if they wanted to.
 
What is the point of any of this and who does this benefit? Certainly not the consumer. Let's all hack and destroy the maker of the Playstation?? What is next, clubbing baby seals?
 
Blackstone said:
What is the point of any of this and who does this benefit? Certainly not the consumer. Let's all hack and destroy the maker of the Playstation?? What is next, clubbing baby seals?
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Makes great leather boots.
 
Youn said:
I totally thought by the title of the thread we might be talking about a new "Doom" game...
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Thanks to PS3 hacking, we can at least get Doom 1-3 ported (with Id tech 4 source coming out at the release of Rage)!
 
BladeVenom said:
Sony's been screwing their customers for years.
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So has Microsoft and you see the legions of fanboys defending them and drinking their kool-aid. Every business will "screw" customers if you didn't like the company to begin with.
 
BladeVenom said:
Sony's been screwing their customers for years.
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They haven't been screwing me. I paid for a console and a handful of games. I paid market price and it all works.... so I fail to see why someone like me, an average console gamer, would feel screwed by Sony.

So how have we been screwed, and why should we support continued attacks on Sony's network?
 
Mr Jim Brown said:
They haven't been screwing me. I paid for a console and a handful of games. I paid market price and it all works.... so I fail to see why someone like me, an average console gamer, would feel screwed by Sony.

So how have we been screwed, and why should we support continued attacks on Sony's network?
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You don't care that they store your personal info in plain text and ran unsecured networks so your data could be stolen?
 
Has it been confirmed it was in plain text? Or is it just people saying that as truth?
 
refraxion said:
Has it been confirmed it was in plain text? Or is it just people saying that as truth?
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Who knows other than the hackers and Sony, but since this last breach by LulzSec, they have actually published a sample of the accounts (50,000) and they claimed that it was plain text. Since they published proof of the accounts, I believe them when they say it was plain-text
 
Time2Kill said:
You don't care that they store your personal info in plain text and ran unsecured networks so your data could be stolen?
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In a word, no.

I care that hackers would steal that info, sell it, then claim it is somehow Sony's fault that it was stolen. Could they have protected that information better? Yes. But I don't see it written anywhere that all unsecure information must be stolen as a means to protect it. If my wife leaves the door unlocked and someone breaks in, I don't crucify my wife. Trespassing is trespassing, it doesn't matter if the door is locked. Like I can walk around my neighborhood looking for unlocked doors so I can tell the police I am doing a service to the community by stealing unprotected goods.:rolleyes:

Hackers are stealing consumer information and profiting from it, then trying to build support from the consumers whose information they steal and sell. If they want to go after Sony they should expose and steal things that are valuable to Sony, not consumers.

Stealing consumer information hurts consumers, not Sony. Maybe they hurt Sony indirectly by destroying confidence, but its the consumers who are suffering. Saying this information is fair game because it is less than 100% secure is radical, hacker-manifesto, nonsense.

If the "hackers" really wanted support from consumers, they would steal the info, present it to the public as hardly protected, make recommendations on how to better protect it, then return the data back to the company and consumers. But they are attempting to sell it, so no, consumers will not support that.
 
refraxion said:
If the hackers wanted to hack LIVE, they would make it look like it was stored in plain text. Don't be so ignorant, these guys can most likely tear Microsoft a new one if they wanted to.
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Yes if hackers wanted to they could hack Live or pretty much anything, but difference is the consumer wouldn't be at the same level of risk. Hashing passwords is like programming 101. Sony failed here like gawker media did and exposed all the users passwords. If someone used the same password for PSN and their email account or another website they could be screwed. Sure you should use different passwords for all your accounts, but most people probably don't.
 
rampantandroid said:
I'm still laughing...best of luck to the hackers - Sony deserves it. If things go well, Sony will learn a lesson or two. Given Sony has no security and thinks DRM over the top on DVDs and BluRay in ADDITION to rootkits on audio CDs is acceptable, Sony deserves this.

As for Sony creating electronics we all use? Like Betamax? And Minidisc? Oh, what about SACD?
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I feel sorry for those who have had to do without service because of this but yea I'm still laughing at sony as well. I think they have just pushed people too far with their antics.
 
refraxion said:
So has Microsoft and you see the legions of fanboys defending them and drinking their kool-aid. Every business will "screw" customers if you didn't like the company to begin with.
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There's plenty of things I don't like about MS, but Microsoft hasn't done anything as bad as intentionally put trojans on CDs.

Or shut down customers Linux machines.

MS isn't a member of the MPAA or the RIAA.
 
Mr Jim Brown said:
I'll admit I haven't been following the whole story, but this stems from Sony not allowing PS3 users to modify consoles right? People were sued, legal battles, and an eventual uproar from gamers (read hackers)?
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The story goes like this

The PS3 used to allow users to run linux in a sandbox, certain people were trying to break out of that sandbox (obstinately to get access to more of the consoles hardware from linux but I bet the pirates and cheaters were watching carefully too) and sony got scared and removed this functionality.

Soon after that attempts at cracking the PS3 proper stepped up big time and thanks to some cryptographic screw-ups on Sony's side the root keys to the crypto that protects the PS3 were able to be derived.

Soon after that sony decided to take legal action against the person who leaked the root keys. That legal action was eventually settled with a settlement that amounted to "don't ever mess with our products again". I believe they may have taken legal action against others in the PS3 hacking community as well.

Soon after that the hacks on PSN started which were followed by hacks on other bits of Sony's internet infrastructure.

Just how much these events relate to each other only the perpatrators know for sure but it seems unlikely it's purely coincidental.
 
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Mr Jim Brown said:
In a word, no.

I care that hackers would steal that info, sell it, then claim it is somehow Sony's fault that it was stolen. Could they have protected that information better? Yes. But I don't see it written anywhere that all unsecure information must be stolen as a means to protect it. If my wife leaves the door unlocked and someone breaks in, I don't crucify my wife. Trespassing is trespassing, it doesn't matter if the door is locked. Like I can walk around my neighborhood looking for unlocked doors so I can tell the police I am doing a service to the community by stealing unprotected goods.:rolleyes:

Hackers are stealing consumer information and profiting from it, then trying to build support from the consumers whose information they steal and sell. If they want to go after Sony they should expose and steal things that are valuable to Sony, not consumers.

Stealing consumer information hurts consumers, not Sony. Maybe they hurt Sony indirectly by destroying confidence, but its the consumers who are suffering. Saying this information is fair game because it is less than 100% secure is radical, hacker-manifesto, nonsense.

If the "hackers" really wanted support from consumers, they would steal the info, present it to the public as hardly protected, make recommendations on how to better protect it, then return the data back to the company and consumers. But they are attempting to sell it, so no, consumers will not support that.
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You perception is warped. If something is easily preventable, it should be prevented. The example of your wife not locking the back door and someone stealing all your shit is perfect. It's her fault that she didn't lock it, and it's easily preventable. You have to give her hell; if people don't learn from their stupid mistakes, they'll keep doing the same thing over and over again.

"Oh gee garsh I sure hope them thieves don't break into my house, but I'll just leave the key right next to the door in case I forgets mines"

Pretty much the same thing happened at Sony. Someone didn't encrypt all of that data because they feared that they might lose the means to un-encrypt it, or they were just plain lazy. If the latter is true, they don't deserve to be in business anymore. That shows that they simply don't care about their customers and are just in it for the money.
 
This could be just for publicity you know when you download Cracks and stuff they have
that NFO file just trying to promote their group.
 
simonizor said:
You perception is warped. If something is easily preventable, it should be prevented. The example of your wife not locking the back door and someone stealing all your shit is perfect. It's her fault that she didn't lock it, and it's easily preventable. You have to give her hell; if people don't learn from their stupid mistakes, they'll keep doing the same thing over and over again. .
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I agree. They should have protected that data. But leaving something unprotected does not give a person a right to steal it. Nor does it give a person a right to profit from the stolen information. Nor does it wash the hands of the person who stole it. There is no proviso anywhere that states unprotected information is free information-- at least not outside of some manifesto. Some people are approaching this like a judge is going to stick up for them.

I'd support these guys if they would stick to destroying Sony directly. If they can access this information so easily why not go after other information that would destroy the corporation... and only the corporation.

Guys start stealing consumer information and using/selling it and they are hurting the same people they set out to stand up for.
 
simonizor said:
The example of your wife not locking the back door and someone stealing all your shit is perfect. It's her fault that she didn't lock it, and it's easily preventable. You have to give her hell; if people don't learn from their stupid mistakes, they'll keep doing the same thing over and over again.
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Except stealing is a crime whereas leaving your door unlocked is not. Those who steal need to be punished, not a spouse for a simple mistake. But that is what insurance is for anyway regardless.

I also don't see how any of that relates in anyway to what happened with Sony. A business has the responsibility to protect their customers personal information.
 
Hackers are 100% in the wrong here....no exceptions as it is never acceptable to cause problems to consumers whom are innocent in this whole matter

For those of you saying that MS could get hacked just as easily, I think not because MS has YEARS of experience dealing with people trying to hack into their systems for one reason or another.....

you can bet your last $$ though that the PS4 when it arrives will have a proper crypto implimentation
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
Hackers are 100% in the wrong here....no exceptions as it is never acceptable to cause problems to consumers whom are innocent in this whole matter
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This.

I cannot believe ppl think it's ok to steal ppl's personal data! Anyone who thinks this is funny is a bonafide bell end. Simple.
 
refraxion said:
If the hackers wanted to hack LIVE, they would make it look like it was stored in plain text. Don't be so ignorant, these guys can most likely tear Microsoft a new one if they wanted to.
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i'm sure microsoft's gone into over drive making sure they have absolutely no holes since the sony attacks started. maybe 2-3 weeks ago it was possible but not it would probably be a bitch to try it.


YeuEmMaiMai said:
Hackers are 100% in the wrong here....no exceptions as it is never acceptable to cause problems to consumers whom are innocent in this whole matter

For those of you saying that MS could get hacked just as easily, I think not because MS has YEARS of experience dealing with people trying to hack into their systems for one reason or another.....

you can bet your last $$ though that the PS4 when it arrives will have a proper crypto implimentation
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totally agree. its one thing to attack sony to prove you can do it and to piss them off. but its another thing to attack customers personal information. in the end its going to cost sony millions of dollars, do they deserve it? probably but since i don't buy sony product's i don't really care. if the hackers had stolen the data and then deleted it after they publicly announced they had stolen it i wouldn't have such a problem with what they are doing.
 
Mr. Bluntman said:
And for killing off the Dreamcast with only hype of the impending PS2.
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Sega killed the Dreamcast. It's pointless to blame Sony. Sega didn't have the money to support the console over a generation cycle when it launched and they had very little 3rd party support due to Sega's stupidity with consoles and add-ons, along with them thinking they could compete with EA on the sports front and EA just walking away from them. Let's not forget the GD-ROM issue where piracy was as simple as burning a disc and Sega probably knew that prior to the console's launch. What Sony did was good marketing, but the Dreamcast was doomed from the moment it launched.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
For those of you saying that MS could get hacked just as easily, I think not because MS has YEARS of experience dealing with people trying to hack into their systems for one reason or another.....

you can bet your last $$ though that the PS4 when it arrives will have a proper crypto implimentation
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"Proper crypto implementation?" the xbox was cracked upon release and the the ps3 took years. we have no idea what has happened to the Live service. it's a paid service so one thing is certain--more resources would be used in hiding whether it has been hacked than keeping it from being hacked.
 
mope54 said:
eventually the hackers will squander whatever marginal good will/support they had and public opinion will begin to edge toward sony's behalf
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true. no way these hackers will get re-elected in 2012 :p
 
Good. I hope they keep PSN and Sony on their knees until they restore OtherOS.

The box package advertises OtherOS and PSN. I expect to be able to do both, not pick and choose.
 
canna said:
Good. I hope they keep PSN and Sony on their knees until they restore OtherOS.

The box package advertises OtherOS and PSN. I expect to be able to do both, not pick and choose.
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Fuck otherOs, almost no one used the darn thing at all....get over it already.... use the darn PS3 or sell it if you cant use your random otherOS....

or go buy a PC and do wtf you want with it. Sorry, they ruined it for a hell of lot more people than sony. The other 99.999% of PS3 are who got the shaft...
 
Bigbacon said:
Fuck otherOs, almost no one used the darn thing at all....get over it already.... use the darn PS3 or sell it if you cant use your random otherOS....

or go buy a PC and do wtf you want with it. Sorry, they ruined it for a hell of lot more people than Sony. The other 99.999% of PS3 are who got the shaft...
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Irrelevant. Since OtherOS was an advertised feature, they have no right to just arbitrarily discontinue it. The fact that not a lot of people used it doesn't matter. I'm sure you have a pair of garden shears or whatever in your garage you haven't touched in years. However, I have no right to just come and take them because you aren't using them. While I don't condone or support software piracy, it's up to Sony to stop piracy of their games *without* interfering with any of the features people paid for. Also, there are already existing legal channels for Sony to peruse pirates; if people connect to PSN with a pirated game, they can go after them in civil court, prove it, and get a compensatory judgement.

Oh, by the way, Sony got hacked again today, June 6, "LulzSec hacked Sony again, this time leaking the Sony Developer Network source code through file sharing websites." I laugh every day that Sony gets shit on by some hacker group. The best part about it is they are getting dominated by a bunch of 4chan script kiddies that call themselves the "lulzboats" and names 15 year olds think are cool. LOL!
 
canna said:
Irrelevant. Since OtherOS was an advertised feature, they have no right to just arbitrarily discontinue it. The fact that not a lot of people used it doesn't matter. I'm sure you have a pair of garden shears or whatever in your garage you haven't touched in years. However, I have no right to just come and take them because you aren't using them. While I don't condone or support software piracy, it's up to Sony to stop piracy of their games *without* interfering with any of the features people paid for. Also, there are already existing legal channels for Sony to peruse pirates; if people connect to PSN with a pirated game, they can go after them in civil court, prove it, and get a compensatory judgement.

Oh, by the way, Sony got hacked again today, June 6, "LulzSec hacked Sony again, this time leaking the Sony Developer Network source code through file sharing websites." I laugh every day that Sony gets shit on by some hacker group. The best part about it is they are getting dominated by a bunch of 4chan script kiddies that call themselves the "lulzboats" and names 15 year olds think are cool. LOL!
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I can't imagine what a world of pain Sr. network security guys that worked for Sony for 5-10+ years are in now and most likely got fired.

On one hand you want to put on your resume you've been a Sr. security guy at one of the world's largest and most successful corporations and in charge of infrastructure and security.

But on the other hand... you screwed up big time and I doubt anyone would want to hire them knowing how incompetent they really are.

Leaving them with a 5-10+ year gap on their resume
 
canna said:
Irrelevant. Since OtherOS was an advertised feature, they have no right to just arbitrarily discontinue it. The fact that not a lot of people used it doesn't matter. I'm sure you have a pair of garden shears or whatever in your garage you haven't touched in years. However, I have no right to just come and take them because you aren't using them. While I don't condone or support software piracy, it's up to Sony to stop piracy of their games *without* interfering with any of the features people paid for. Also, there are already existing legal channels for Sony to peruse pirates; if people connect to PSN with a pirated game, they can go after them in civil court, prove it, and get a compensatory judgement.
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If Sony physically came into your place and upgraded your firmware against your will, then you'd have a point. But since they offered an optional firmware upgrade, along with clear notification that OtherOS would be removed, and the user agreed to the terms before upgrading the firmware, then you have no grounds to be complaining that Sony did anything wrong.

Using your garden shears analogy (even though you're describing a theft, but whatever), it'd be as if you took your shears into Sears and asked them to sharpen them. The clerk tells you that he can't sharpen the blades but can give you a new "upgraded" pair but that it will lose some functionality because it doesn't have the beveled bottle-cap opener. You say sure, I only use them for gardening anyway, and go home happy. A week later your drunk uncle comes over and starts bitching about where is that bottle-opening shears he used to love. You tell him that you've got a new pair you use for gardening--go buy a bottle opener, you don't even drink.

Then his drunk poker buddies start stealing credit card slips from Sears and shitting on your doorstep. I don't think so...
 
mope54 said:
You tell him that you've got a new pair you use for gardening--go buy a bottle opener, you don't even drink.

Then his drunk poker buddies start stealing credit card slips from Sears and shitting on your doorstep. I don't think so...
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lol
 
TheGardenTool said:
Except stealing is a crime whereas leaving your door unlocked is not. Those who steal need to be punished, not a spouse for a simple mistake. But that is what insurance is for anyway regardless.

I also don't see how any of that relates in anyway to what happened with Sony. A business has the responsibility to protect their customers personal information.
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Briefly look at self defense: in many states lethal force is OK when someone invades your home. Unless you left the door unlocked. Then you cannot use force, as there is no "breaking an entering" charge that can be made against them.
 
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