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Does that mean I could have bought a 970 in September, used it until now, and gotten a full refund?
Sweet deal.
Sweet deal.
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GTX 970 flaw
- Thread starter ManofGod
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Are they? I've had PMs to them on their own forums since this morning and they haven't responded, nor has there been any activity from PeterS today..
Newegg already refused my return (I purchased them in November, so I'm outside of the return period) and Asus' web page for opening cases is throwing an error when I try to submit.
They are... I wonder why a Nvidia person hasn't come forward yet on this forum ?
Heck, why hasn't ]-[ made a story about this yet either ?
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37120512&postcount=280 is another example, and yes, people that have bought it on newegg ARE getting credits, like this post shows: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37122334&postcount=296
That is almost $800 back to buy new cards.
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PeterS did come forward here, this morning:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041390151&postcount=287
I went to the GeForce forums and contacted him directly there. Haven't heard anything at all yet, but maybe he'll be able to help me out like he did on one of the links you provided (assuming the poster wasn't lying)...
Store credit =/= refund. I only point this out because this basically ties you to Newegg for future purchases unless you want to forego that $800, which means you could miss out on [H]ot deals and what not. Also I really hope this store credit has no expiration date, otherwise I'd still be pissed.
But before we get hung up on semantics, seems like this offer to help is inconsistent at best:
And I know I'm in the minority here, but returning for credit isn't even an option because I spent almost $350 on watercooling gear for my 970 cards, and nobody in their right mind would give me full credit for those (rightfully so I should add). So what is nVidia going to do about my situation? Absolutely fuck all, because I'm the 1% that don't matter. So either way I lose, because if I return for a refund I'm losing $350, and if I don't well I'm getting less than what I paid for.
Fuck nVidia.
But before we get hung up on semantics, seems like this offer to help is inconsistent at best:
Manoj8001 said:
And I know I'm in the minority here, but returning for credit isn't even an option because I spent almost $350 on watercooling gear for my 970 cards, and nobody in their right mind would give me full credit for those (rightfully so I should add). So what is nVidia going to do about my situation? Absolutely fuck all, because I'm the 1% that don't matter. So either way I lose, because if I return for a refund I'm losing $350, and if I don't well I'm getting less than what I paid for.
Fuck nVidia.
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They have, in this thread.
This is great news! I hope others will also follow through.
Don't think he was lying... since he posted this: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37121946&postcount=1
Maybe they are getting hammered with all the PMs from PO'ed 970 owners... who knows.
Meeho & Starrbuck, Do'h, missed that.
These threads just get too darn big too quickly.
Nope. These are board and brand specific full cover blocks from EK.
So yeah, talk about totally screwed. But it's all good though, because originally I was planning on getting 2x GM200, but there is no way in hell that's happening now, so thank you for saving me $2700 nVidia.
So yeah, talk about totally screwed. But it's all good though, because originally I was planning on getting 2x GM200, but there is no way in hell that's happening now, so thank you for saving me $2700 nVidia.
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Having worked in service, and still working closely with service, it's my philosophy that there's no excuse for being a jerk to someone who is nothing but courteous to you. When displeased with a product/service, you're more likely to get cooperation out of the rep by being pleasant. The rep is human too, so when we get shat on, we may suddenly have technical issues with our phone/computer, your ticket may conveniently get filed incorrectly, your complaint may not actually get escalated.
This issue does suck, but John W. could've conveyed the same message without being a jerk to Kenny. I refuse to believe using Kenny as a doormat really helped this cause, John's demeanor was actually a distraction. At best it compounded with other similar calls/chats to ruin Kenny's day.
The rep Kenny actually wasn't suggesting overclocking but to ensure that it was running at its top stock boost bin. People heckling CSR's like that are part of why people with legitimate concerns have such a hard time getting a serious response for a wide variety of issues... that CSR has nothing to do with the VRAM "issue"/concern (which has been shown so far to have no appreciable impact except on spec sheets, compared to what we expected to have gotten when buying off of reviews... looking forward to FCAT and frametime data to confirm though). Hassling him over it is just ridiculous.
^ people who get it.
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Im more for making sure something like this does not happen again and that AMD dont start getting any bright ideas for doing the same.
If we all kept quiet you can be damn sure NV would do it again.
If the card had explicitly documented 3.5GB+512MB then i would have no issue as people knew what they were buying so could not complain.
If we all kept quiet you can be damn sure NV would do it again.
If the card had explicitly documented 3.5GB+512MB then i would have no issue as people knew what they were buying so could not complain.
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After waiting all day, I got a reply from PeterS, and he's giving me the runaround.
He asked if there was a specific issue I was having that they could help me with and then offered up a line or two about how great the 970 still is.
I reiterated that I wanted to exercise my option to get refunded. Now I'm waiting again...
He asked if there was a specific issue I was having that they could help me with and then offered up a line or two about how great the 970 still is.
I reiterated that I wanted to exercise my option to get refunded. Now I'm waiting again...
How would they give you a refund if youre past 30 days?
Sheesh.
And ya, I am sure the 970 is great, until you start using more than 3.5GB, then, it isn't as great.
Nvida wasn't forthcoming with the facts, now they need to make the customer happy via refunds or credits.
I guess I was correct, lots of 970 owners are PO'ed about this, and they are flooded with
requests, and management is looking to stem the tide.
Why are you asking me ? I just know what they wrote, as seen by that link.
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LurkerLito
2[H]4U
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Not sure what to do at the moment. I guess I might contact EVGA first to see if they might extend their step up program for me so I can upgrade to the 980 before contacting Nvidia. I guess I'll just wait till next week to see if Nvidia makes some kind of official return policy. I really hate this whole thing already. I regret my frugality for changing my mind at the last minute and switching my planned purchase of a 980 for a 970 back in September.
In this older thread, people found that Firestrike, particularly test 2, does use a lot of VRAM, almost 3.5GB of VRAM in at least one case.
You know, the 970 seemed like it was too good to be true with such amazing specs, almost the same as 980 but costing $200 less. Now we know that it was too good to be true. I dont use as much memory, yet, but knowing the card doesnt deliver its full potential is bullshit, plain and simple.
Lets see what Nvidia does about this.
Lets see what Nvidia does about this.
nVidia will do what it always does best, deny, downplay everything, present questionable results that obfuscate the issue at hand, wait for everything to blow over, people to forget, and start raking in the $$$ again.
That really sucks, I feel for you. Please keep us updated, I'm itching to post this everywhere to expose the damage control PR stunt that nVidia is trying to pull here.
That really sucks, I feel for you. Please keep us updated, I'm itching to post this everywhere to expose the damage control PR stunt that nVidia is trying to pull here.
What, exactly, did you lose? At this point we don't even have a grasp of the significance of any potential performance impacts and yet you're already convinced that you're a big loser?
How is it that people's psychology is so easily affected by what amounts to no more than wild speculation?
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Sheesh.
And ya, I am sure the 970 is great, until you start using more than 3.5GB, then, it isn't as great.
Nvida wasn't forthcoming with the facts, now they need to make the customer happy via refunds or credits.
I guess I was correct, lots of 970 owners are PO'ed about this, and they are flooded with
requests, and management is looking to stem the tide.
Still no further reply from NVIDIA, but I did finish a chat with ASUS just now. Here is the transcript:
Victor S. Wed, 01/28/15 05:59:48 pm
Hello Starrbuck, thank you for contacting ASUS support. Please give me a few moments to review your information. I will be with you shortly.
Hi Starrbuck,
How is your day?
Starrbuck 06:00:23 pm
Not too bad, yourself?
Victor S. 06:00:40 pm
Nice. Thank you. I am doing fine.
Starrbuck 06:01:32 pm
Awesome. I was hoping you could help me with my GTX 970 issues.
Victor S. 06:01:51 pm
I would like to.
Could you tell me the issue?
Starrbuck 06:02:23 pm
Sure. Are you aware of the recent news of the memory flaw in the 970s? http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nvi...gtx-970-specs-and-memory/1100-6424915/
I have been in contact today with Peter at NVIDIA and he asked disgruntled customers to contact their suppliers to request refunds if they so choose.
Then to contact the manufacturer to see if they could help.
I called Newegg and they were unwilling to process an RMA since I purchased the two ASUS GTX 970s in November of 2014
They instructed me as well to contact ASUS.
Victor S. 06:04:28 pm
Ok,I could help you with this..
Starrbuck 06:05:05 pm
I am a huge ASUS supporter. This new system I built uses a RAMPAGE V EXTREME motherboard and I love it!
Victor S. 06:05:11 pm
We are receiving the issue's from the customers.
I will convey the issue to my next level of support.
Once they respond,the solution will be announced with our webpage.
Is there anything else?
Starrbuck 06:07:14 pm
So you are saying there should be some sort of company announcement regarding how ASUS will handle this?
Victor S. 06:08:02 pm
Yes,there will be an anouncement.
Also you will receive a email.
I suggest you to wait for few days,so that the solution will be provided.
Is there anything else?
Starrbuck 06:09:15 pm
Did I get a case number assigned, or anything so I can reference that I chatted with you?
Victor S. 06:09:23 pm
Yes,you will sooner get the case number via email.
Also you will get this chat transcrip via email.
Starrbuck 06:10:04 pm
Ok, cool. I was hoping it could be resolved sooner but I understand you probably sold thousands of cards and it will take time.
Victor S. 06:10:31 pm
Yes,it was sold in numbers and the solution will be delivered sooner.
As we work for customer satisfaction.
Starrbuck 06:10:56 pm
Ok, thanks for your help!
Victor S. 06:11:10 pm
Welcome. Is there anything else?
Starrbuck 06:11:15 pm
That is all for now.
Victor S. 06:11:17 pm
Thank you for contacting ASUS. Have a nice day. You will receive a short survey after this chat to rate the level of support youve received from
us today. We would appreciate your valuable feedback which will help us improve our level of service to you.
Starrbuck 06:11:34 pm
Thanks
Survey:
How many times did you contact us in order to have your current issue resolved? Not resolved
How easy was it for you to resolve your current issue? Difficult
How would you rate your overall level of satisfaction with ASUS? Satisfied
How would you rate your level of satisfaction with the representative you spoke with during this chat? Satisfied
How likely are you to recommend ASUS to a friend, family member, or colleague? Would definitely recommend
Additional Feedback My issue is not resolved but the representative assured me after a few days there should be an announcement. He was very professional and at this point all I can do is give ASUS the benefit of the doubt and wait.
Chat Duration: 11m 54s
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-geforce-gtx-970-vram-stress-test.html
They pushed a new game beyond 3.5GB and used FCAT to test the results. Once again the 970 still performs great.
They pushed a new game beyond 3.5GB and used FCAT to test the results. Once again the 970 still performs great.
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For me, it was easy to push BF4 past 3.5GB and into a stuttering fit on a 4k monitor.
First of all read this thread, test has been completely debunked due to piss poor testing methodology.
Second, for every game you show me that proves the 970 has no vram stuttering, I will find you 3 that proves the 970 does stutter. We can keep playing this shitty game but i won't help anyone here.
Spirit_Retro
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I'd have to say as an impartial observer, the flamethrowers are pretty justified no matter how commercial review sites help to soften the blow.
As a customer, if there was an issue like this with a $330.00(??) video card- I'd be super angry.
Some of us who have been gaming a long time, with investments over the years into the tens of thousands of dollars, really really resent when stuff like this happens- even if it was an honest mistake. That being said it was also an elementary mistake to publish incorrect information into reviewer's guides and packaging (??).
My card is an unaffected 980. But it this bug/design flaw/lie/mis-communication (pick one or two or whatever) could have made me a non-nVidia customer. Especially if found on the past cards I've owned: 2 770s , 2 295s, 2 280s, 2 260s. 9800, 2 8800, 2 7600, 5950 Ultra, and a bunch of models I can't remember going back to the GeForce 256- which I've owned.
Perhaps I'm just angry in sympathy with others. I really feel for people who bought these because I know oh so well the feeling when you spend big bucks, and get let down.
Flame on brothers: market backlash is one of the only ways a company can learn to "do it right".
VonGriffin
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well at least Roy has fun
and yes i will try and get a refund, its not about performance but about being deceived with false technical specifications
and yes i will try and get a refund, its not about performance but about being deceived with false technical specifications
Well if 4 months of benchmarks and independents tests are not enough.
Good luck with that.
Show me the benchmarks where they push the 970 over 3.5GB of vram usage, measure the frame times with FCAT, and actually post the FCAT results instead of giving a useles average FPS number.
Frame time analysis is up on PC Per.
The tl;dr is there is definitely frametime variance when you use more than 3.5GB on the 970, but it cannot be said if that is strictly due to the memory issue or perhaps the other differences between the 970 and 980. Also, some games appear to really try to prevent the 970 from using that last 0.5GB of memory.
The tl;dr is there is definitely frametime variance when you use more than 3.5GB on the 970, but it cannot be said if that is strictly due to the memory issue or perhaps the other differences between the 970 and 980. Also, some games appear to really try to prevent the 970 from using that last 0.5GB of memory.
Finally something more useful. We should have a better understanding of the issue as more data comes in. Someone should benchmark Skyrim with heavy texture usage. That would provide better framerate with real and full memory usage.
It is not games that are preventing >3.5 GB usage, it is the driver to avoid the slow 0.5 GB part.
How do you think this whole "scandal" came to light in the first place? It was increased users' issue reporting that started it all.
I wanted to quote your quote,
I'm playing Far Cry 4 at 1680x1050 with everything max on my GTX 970 and I'm mostly hanging around in the 3230MB region.
The only "game" I have that I've pushed into the 3.5-4.0GB range is Space Engine. I spent a chunk of time with it around 3.7-3.8GB and didn't notice any slow down, but I wasn't recording the data at the time.
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Absolutely... there's absolutely no excuse for being rude to someone like that, particularly when they're just facilitating a line of communication.
Ouch...
.Silver linings
Yeah, helped to lessen the annoyance factor some. I'm basically settled on going for a refund from newegg for the cards, but I'll still need to decide what to buy (maybe an open-box single 980 and oc it, or hold out for something else, like the R9 390X, entirely). Just as annoyed as far as the whole video card thing itself goes though with the GTX 970's... figured I would be good for a long time to come with SLI of them given their performance when below 3.5GB
.That's indeed true, however the takeaway here is the average frametime and the variance away from what it should be. Given a framerate of 40fps, the "perfect world" scenario would be 1000ms divided by 40 frames in a second, for a 25ms frametime. In real life that of course isn't going to happen, but the variance should be more along the lines of 5-10ms in either direction or so for the vast majority of frames, with rare (if any) spikes much higher (sub-1% is the measure FCAT-based reviewers use by quoting the 99th percentile, or in other words discarding the worst 1% of frame times). Spiking to 100-200+ milliseconds extra in around 40% to half of the frames doesn't fit with how it should be behaving, and makes for very juddery, unresponsive gameplay. The reason I particularly pushed settings as high as I did for testing in BF4 was to get it to eat up enough VRAM that the caching couldn't simply offload it out back to under 3.5gb, which some games were reaching above the 3.5gb mark with no fiddling needed at 4K native with high enough settings (but otherwise-playable) while still reading out at over 50-70fps. I already had sent the monitor back by the time I thought of testing it myself, but I had been seeing this behavior on it.
Unfortunately they used unrealistic and flawed testing methodology there, barely pushing it into the >3.5gb territory (they remark using under 3.6gb) in a brief test of 30 seconds. It's very easily possible as well that due to only barely going above the threshold it would have never even hit an asset inside of that segmented area in that kind of testing.
Are you serious? Just do a google search for "970 stutter". Since these were brand new cards at the time, people simply attributed them to immature drivers or shitty game optimization, myself included. How were we supposed to know it might've been due to this vram wall? I'm sorry for not being clairvoyant.
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Sadly, that's the only way to get shit resolved here in the states. Through litigation. And those Americans in the know realize that class action lawsuits only result in the lawyers running off to the bank.
A big reason for me purchasing two 970s was for skyrim. I noticed something was up a few weeks ago before news broke out about the 3.5gb issue (thought it was just an isolated issue). But my personal experience with skyrim was that anytime the game wanted to break over 3.5gb it would stutter for a couple seconds and then vram usage would drop to 3.1-3.3gb. Even with dsr/4k textures I couldn't get passed 3.6gb of usage for more than a few seconds.
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