GTX 580 rumors

samurai1999 said:
Yes, I know
- they're all saying 512+ shaders...
(not 384)
:)
Click to expand...

With 768 shaders is where the dual GPU comes in (384X2). :)

Let me repeat:
GTX 495
Based upon 384SP GF110 which would be a fully enabled improved GF104.
GF110 X 2
384SPX2=768SP
512bit bus
64TMUx2=128TMU

Or are you suggesting that Nvidia is not only using the 512 cores of the GF100, but are adding 256 more cores and keeps the power consumption lower then a GTX 480!?! ;)
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
With 768 shaders is where the dual GPU comes in (384X2). :)

Let me repeat:
GTX 495
Based upon 384SP GF110 which would be a fully enabled improved GF104.
GF110 X 2
384SPX2=768SP
512bit bus
64TMUx2=128TMU

Or are you suggesting that Nvidia is not only using the 512 cores of the GF100, but are adding 256 more cores and keeps the power consumption lower then a GTX 480!?! ;)
Click to expand...

I guess we're going round in circles here
- you believe that the GF110 is a 384SP part, and a Dual card is planned to give a 768SP Card ...
- ok, that's your belief....
 
samurai1999 said:
I guess we're going round in circles here
- you believe that the GF110 is a 384SP part, and a Dual card is planned to give a 768SP Card ...
- ok, that's your belief....
Click to expand...

Yes. GF110 as the GPU in a dual card product. My belief (and also 3DCenter and others belief). :)

Not only that, I hope that its so. From a consumer perspective, the GTX 460 offers much more then the GTX 480, so if Nvidia improves it and sell it at same price point, its better then a beefcake Halo card that nobody but the few buys. A dual GPU card would be great as a single card Surround solution.

From a business perspective, I think Nvidia sells more and earns more on the GTX 460. AMD is targeting that card with their 6800 series, probably for the same reason. Having a refresh card to take up that battle, might be wise. :)

The GTX 480 isn't even on the all cards list on Steam survey last month and thats after 6 months of sale. I doubt that Nvidia will earn much refreshing that card to compete with the 6900 series.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Yes. GF110 as the GPU in a dual card product. My belief (and also 3DCenter and others belief). :)

Not only that, I hope that its so. From a consumer perspective, the GTX 460 offers much more then the GTX 480, so if Nvidia improves it and sell it at same price point, its better then a beefcake Halo card that nobody but the few buys. A dual GPU card would be great as a single card Surround solution.

From a business perspective, I think Nvidia sells more and earns more on the GTX 460. AMD is targeting that card with their 6800 series, probably for the same reason. Having a refresh card to take up that battle, might be wise. :)

The GTX 480 isn't even on the all cards list on Steam survey last month and thats after 6 months of sale. I doubt that Nvidia will earn much refreshing that card to compete with the 6900 series.
Click to expand...

Then how would a card that you speak of compete with the following cards

6850 > GTX 460 768
6870 > GTX 460 1gb
6950 > GTX 480
****** that card would probably fall here.
6970 > Tamlin GF110 dual
6990 Antilles > everything

It just doesn't make sense. Are you really saying that the best nvidia can compete with AMD will be there? And that the best they can do will require a dual card? I really think they deserve a little more optimism on the competitive standpoint. They will have a card to compete at least on 6970 level. Antilles could be faced off with a dual card but from what I believe nothing will beat it depending on AMD's driver support if the rumors hold true. From what the rumors make of it, the antilles is supposed to be dual 6950's which would require more than even a dual unlocked GF104. Perhaps a dual GF110 GTX 570 card but as I stated several posts ago,I dont believe that card will be possible with the PCIe power spec.

I guess we shall see in a few months time, it's fun to speculate though.
 
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Lord_Exodia said:
It just doesn't make sense. Are you really saying that the best nvidia can compete with AMD will be there?
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Yes and no. :)

I think that having a single card GF110 to compete with the 6870 is where the money is at. In addition, 6000 series is supposed to bring more Eyefinity features. A dual GPU with an improved GTX 460 (which have proven to do well in Surround), would be a nice additon. I doubt that Nvidia would have much to compete with AMD's 6000 series otherwise before they come with Kepler.
If you don't count GTX 300 series (only Oems and laptops), Nvidia is a generation late. I don't think that the R&D spent to launch 2 series within 1 year is well spent. Instead, I think Nvidia would do as they mentioned by lowering price to compete.

If Nvidia were to launch a single GPU halo card, it wouldn't sell much and AMD would still have the 6870 to pit against the GTX 460. Thats were the money is at and I think that AMD launched that card first for this reason.

I guess we shall see in a few months time, it's fun to speculate though.
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Its fun to speculate. :) I must confess that in a small way, I hope they do come with a 512 SP GF100 as well. If to go by last time, it would be a GF100b (like GTX285/GT200b, GTX280/GT200) I think. Lost a bit faith in Nvidia, since they a year ago were parading like monkeys about their 512 core GPU and still haven't delivered. It would bring some satisfaction if they deliver this time, since I believed them last time. :p

resize1.php


No it isn't. Fermi has 480 cores and no wooden screws. :p
 
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Tamlin_WSGF said:
With 768 shaders is where the dual GPU comes in (384X2). :)

Let me repeat:
GTX 495
Based upon 384SP GF110 which would be a fully enabled improved GF104.
GF110 X 2
384SPX2=768SP
512bit bus
64TMUx2=128TMU

Or are you suggesting that Nvidia is not only using the 512 cores of the GF100, but are adding 256 more cores and keeps the power consumption lower then a GTX 480!?! ;)
Click to expand...

you forgot to mention that they are upping the memory controller to 512 bit. the magic of 40nm....
 
I understand where all of this is coming from and I acknowledge that alot of faith in nvidia has been lost. I have lost much of it too especially after the CEO lied through his teeth to his customers. Also after the abysmal GTS450 and GT 430 performance compared to year old cards. They'll have to earn their faith from many but I wont say that I disbelieve these rumors as the time frame and rumors seem very viable.
 
buy a 6XXX series you know u want too, i would really love to buy another Nvidia card but i've fallen into Red parts since the 4870's, do have an old 8800gts pushing physx along, amazingly it's louder and hotter than my 5870 !!
 
The million dollar question here is will AMD have improved its crossfire scaling for the high end. If not then if this dual unlocked 460 card does come out then I think it would come within throwing distance of even Antilles, especially if its only going to be two 6950s.
 
KaptainKhaos said:
buy a 6XXX series you know u want too, i would really love to buy another Nvidia card but i've fallen into Red parts since the 4870's, do have an old 8800gts pushing physx along, amazingly it's louder and hotter than my 5870 !!
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You fail as a troll.

Some of us actually want our drivers to work and not decrease performance every month. Oh, and SSAA under DX10 and DX11.
 
eddieck said:
You fail as a troll.

Some of us actually want our drivers to work and not decrease performance every month. Oh, and SSAA under DX10 and DX11.
Click to expand...

Seriously, you're going to call him a troll and then play the driver card? Nvidiots really should get a new song and dance.

Some of us want our cards to not melt holes in the floor. Also, I <3 rock solid, performance increasing drivers as well - that's why I'm running a 5870 and have been since launch :p
 
I don't think its going to be change a whole lot and might get 512 instead of 480 but I don't see much of speed increase plus what about heat. Its clearly time to redesign the fan. I am sure that better cooling can be used fan wise.
 
kllrnohj said:
Seriously, you're going to call him a troll and then play the driver card? Nvidiots really should get a new song and dance.
Click to expand...

You don't call going into a thread about an NVIDIA card and saying "go ATI, they own!" trolling?

As far as AMD's awesome drivers go, I've know two people with 5850s and 5870s. Both are still stuck on 10.5 drivers. Any newer driver either BSODs or provides lower performance than 10.5. Both have tried clean Windows 7 x64 installs as well. (Granted, two people is not a large sample size, but given that and the many posts around here I've seen about AMD's crappy software support, that's enough for me.)

I'm honestly wondering if part of their problem is hardware (architecture). If so, it'll be interesting to see what NI does. If AMD is able to produce a card with reasonable software support and DX10/DX11 SSAA (my main requirement), they may very well have my money.
 
eddieck said:
You don't call going into a thread about an NVIDIA card and saying "go ATI, they own!" trolling?

As far as AMD's awesome drivers go, I've know two people with 5850s and 5870s. Both are still stuck on 10.5 drivers. Any newer driver either BSODs or provides lower performance than 10.5. Both have tried clean Windows 7 x64 installs as well. (Granted, two people is not a large sample size, but given that and the many posts around here I've seen about AMD's crappy software support, that's enough for me.)

I'm honestly wondering if part of their problem is hardware (architecture). If so, it'll be interesting to see what NI does. If AMD is able to produce a card with reasonable software support and DX10/DX11 SSAA (my main requirement), they may very well have my money.
Click to expand...

Have ATI's drivers bricked their cards? Until they do, I don't think NVIDIA has nuch to crow about their drivers.
 
Pantalaimon said:
Have ATI's drivers bricked their cards? Until they do, I don't think NVIDIA has nuch to crow about their drivers.
Click to expand...

One driver that was like a year ago. That's not to say that issue wasn't serious, because it was, but I'd honestly take that over ATI's many (at least 3 or 4) drivers lately that have been decreasing performance. At least the issue would/should be somewhat obvious - you can usually tell when your video card's fans aren't spinning, and it would be obvious something is up.
 
While I find the 512SP thing a little unbelievable, I do not at all find it unbelievable that they'll release a card that performs better and doesn't use more power. The GTX 460 demonstrates that pretty well. It is a much better showing in terms of performance/power than the others. Reason is they adjusted the ration of shaders/TMUs/ROPs and so on.

If they get a better balance and improve the design overall, there is a good chance that the new cards will work quite well.

The big problem Fermi seems to have is that it has overpowerd shaders, more or less. Nice for CUDA, not so nice for game FPS without a ton of heat.
 
Sycraft said:
While I find the 512SP thing a little unbelievable, I do not at all find it unbelievable that they'll release a card that performs better and doesn't use more power.
Click to expand...

How is it unrealistic to have 512 SPs? The GF100 (GTX 480 and 470) already have them, but one SM is fused off. When the card was released, you could say that was due to poor yields on TSMC's crappy process. Now that TSMC has supposedly been able to work out most of the issues and NVIDIA has also learned, 512 SPs with higher clocks sounds like a very achievable target to me.

Sycraft said:
The big problem Fermi seems to have is that it has overpowerd shaders, more or less. Nice for CUDA, not so nice for game FPS without a ton of heat.
Click to expand...

GF104 fixed that by removing DP and ECC support. (Actually, I believe one SM has DP support so programmers working on DP CUDA projects can test their code at their workstations. The production code would of course be running on a Tesla board.)
 
kllrnohj said:
Seriously, you're going to call him a troll and then play the driver card? Nvidiots really should get a new song and dance.

Some of us want our cards to not melt holes in the floor. Also, I <3 rock solid, performance increasing drivers as well - that's why I'm running a 5870 and have been since launch :p
Click to expand...
Yes, some of us do not want cards that double up your gaming rigs as home saunas (myself included - using a 5870 myself). But I disagree with the statement on rock solid performance increasing drivers... 10.5-10.7 were total shit, reducing performance+breaking crossfire (eg BFBC2) and causing instability in games (10.7 crashes Borderlands)
 
eddieck said:
Air conditioning FTW.
Click to expand...
Well between getting an aircond unit in my pc room and a GTX 480 and needing converters for the 8 pin PCIE power plug versus a 5870, I chose to cheap out as it makes more sense. Nvidia's luck... they didn't have GF104 out then, and still haven't released a 384 shader variant either.
 
Difference between load is 120watts.... little more than one lightbulb. Every time I turn on a light in my room I gotta also turn on the AC. Makes sense.
 
Lord_Exodia said:
I understand where all of this is coming from and I acknowledge that alot of faith in nvidia has been lost. I have lost much of it too especially after the CEO lied through his teeth to his customers. Also after the abysmal GTS450 and GT 430 performance compared to year old cards. They'll have to earn their faith from many but I wont say that I disbelieve these rumors as the time frame and rumors seem very viable.
Click to expand...

Yeah, many got disappointed last year and lost some faith.
There were a lot of fake "Fermi coming soon with 512 cores"

And even Nvidia employees were lying:

Luciano Alibrandi said:
But while Nvidia does not want to demonstrate its new Fermi-G300 graphics card openly in early October, it does state that it will be able to ship the product commercially in late 2009 and denies the claim that the first Fermi products will only show up in Q1 2010.

“The first Fermi GPUs are expected to launch by year’s end,” stressed Mr. Alibrandi.
Click to expand...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/...irst_Graphics_Cards_on_Track_for_Q4_2009.html

Its still fun to discuss rumors, but there is an aftertaste after last year.

Anyhow, back to the discussion and how I'm right that the GF110 is a 384sp GPU and part of an upcoming dual-gpu card :D
 
bexamous said:
Difference between load is 120watts.... little more than one lightbulb. Every time I turn on a light in my room I gotta also turn on the AC. Makes sense.
Click to expand...

One of the rules of Internet Forums is that all discussions of Fermi eventually descend into jokes about Nuclear Power stations, and/or Air Conditioning!
:D
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Yeah, many got disappointed last year and lost some faith.
There were a lot of fake "Fermi coming soon with 512 cores"

And even Nvidia employees were lying:


http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/...irst_Graphics_Cards_on_Track_for_Q4_2009.html

Its still fun to discuss rumors, but there is an aftertaste after last year.

Anyhow, back to the discussion and how I'm right that the GF110 is a 384sp GPU and part of an upcoming dual-gpu card :D
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Well technically they do have 512 cores. Just some are disabled. I think the decision to disable 32 cores came pretty late. I am sure if Nvidia didn't have manufacturing difficulties, the GTX 480 would be a 512 core part. Disabling 32 of them was to increase yields to something that wasn't totally insane.
 
So we should start speculating how this 512SP 128TMU card will perform. If the memory bus was improved and it's also bumped up from 384 to 512 then it looks like a full 50-60 % faster than a GTX 480. I also think we should see more rumors coming in the next 2 days. I'm sure as the 6000 series gets closer and closer more leaks will come. How long until we get pictures? Either way, it should be an interesting holliday season.

Rumors on 512SP GF110 3 Rumors on Tamlin 384SP GF110 0 :eek: LOL
 
50-60% faster??? hahaha yeah right. your really think they could take a gf100, tweek it, and bam it is 50-60% faster? pass that shit over here so i can take a hit!!!
 
tricky0502 said:
50-60% faster??? hahaha yeah right. your really think they could take a gf100, tweek it, and bam it is 50-60% faster? pass that shit over here so i can take a hit!!!
Click to expand...

If what he's saying is true -- that all shader cores are re-enabled, the memory bus is expanded, and memory controller timing issues are fixed so that memory can be run faster -- just bump up core clock and 50-60% is reachable, even if only at the extreme.
 
ryan_975 said:
If what he's saying is true -- that all shader cores are re-enabled, the memory bus is expanded, and memory controller timing issues are fixed so that memory can be run faster -- just bump up core clock and 50-60% is reachable, even if only at the extreme.
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NV could start by producing gf100 480 in measurable numbers.

Right now a 6870/50 series is comming with a diesize the same as a gts450.

Unfortunately thats where the competition is now.
 
I don't see this happening, this is the same old Fud released by Nvidia at every ATI launch. Remember when the ATI 5xxx was due for release, all the rumours about the soon to be released Fermi but Fermi didn't arrive until 6 months later.

There maybe a dual gpu based on the 460 gtx which might happen in time for Christmas, but, I don't even see that happening.

It would be great for the market if either the gtx 580 or dual 460 did come out for xmas, it would mean some great prices.
 
eddieck said:
As far as AMD's awesome drivers go, I've know two people with 5850s and 5870s. Both are still stuck on 10.5 drivers. Any newer driver either BSODs or provides lower performance than 10.5. Both have tried clean Windows 7 x64 installs as well. (Granted, two people is not a large sample size, but given that and the many posts around here I've seen about AMD's crappy software support, that's enough for me.)
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You're only seeing what you want to see. There are dozens of threads about Nvidia's drivers or cards breaking as well - you just aren't paying attention to them. ATI has more cards this generation, it is logical they will have more support threads in absolute numbers even if percentage wise it is smaller (as in, 1% of ATI's current gen is bigger than 5% of Nvidia's current gen). Until you know the percentage of problems on both sides, you're blowing smoke out your ass.

Honestly if your friends are getting BSODs, there is probably something wrong with their rig (OC too far, bad RAM, etc...).
 
ryan_975 said:
If what he's saying is true -- that all shader cores are re-enabled, the memory bus is expanded, and memory controller timing issues are fixed so that memory can be run faster -- just bump up core clock and 50-60% is reachable, even if only at the extreme.
Click to expand...

Hey dont forget the rumor saying 128TMUs instead of 64.

Double the TMUS alone is at least a 25% boost

going from 384bit memory bus with gddr 5 at moderate speeds to 512bit memory bus with gddr 5 at high speeds is about another 15% boost

Going from 480 enabled cuda cores to 512 enabled cuda cores is another 10% boost

Now say they remove all the GPGPU stuff in the GPU and the cache, as I believe they will have to in order to fit all of this on a die the size of GF100, then that would balance the power consumption and heat to GTX 480 levels or slightly better.

Higher clocks on the core and shaders (cuda cores) is an additional 10-15% boost

You guys see what I'm saying. Keep in mind I'm just speculating. FYI people. Simply overclock a GTX 480 core/shader/memory as you can do on air cooling, nevermind water and you have boosted the performance of that card by 15-20%. Not as hard to believe as you guys would believe.

Remember I'm just speculating. :)

tricky0502 said:
50-60% faster??? hahaha yeah right. your really think they could take a gf100, tweek it, and bam it is 50-60% faster? pass that shit over here so i can take a hit!!!
Click to expand...

Passes a line of common sense for Tricky to snort ;)
 
Krazypoloc said:
6 pages of pure conjecture.....ahh, I love the internet.
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I saw the thread title and said "hey there's something I haven't heard about in a while" and then read the last page and remembered why I stay out of the video card sub forum.
 
PRIME1 said:
It's good to see them releasing a card that will be faster than their last card. Instead of having it just be a mid-range yawnfest.
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I hear what you are saying, but keep in mind, the Mid-range yawnfest is where they make almost all of their money :p
 
If those rumours are true then I wouldnt have one in my compouter unless it had watercooling and electricity was free.
 
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