Graphics: Xbox 360 vs PS3

[PolarbearBigEd]

Didn't Sony just fire their President / CEO ?

Isn't Sony really really regretting entrenching themselves so deep with Blu Ray?

I mean the first thing this new head at Sony said way something in the line of I don't foresee there being a PS4.

Can Sony even survive if PS3 ( hypothetically speaking ) tanks big time.

Sony is in an awful place right now financially ( according to Wall Street ) and ontop of that they are trying to introduce a new system thats overpriced, hard to program for ( a major issue ), while at the same time pushing Blu Ray down everyones throat. I can't comment on Sony's future with the PS3 but as far as marketing and business decisions 101, they are failing miserably atm.

If Microsoft actually developes a slew of quality RPG's Sony is dead in the water.

Nope. The former president of US SCEA got promoted to international VP, and they got a new CEO for US SCEA..

Don't quote me on that because I'm not sure.

 

[aaaaaaaaaaandy]

amen dayvon...amen.

 

[gorilla show]

It's becoming more increasingly obvious that although the PS3 seems to have more inherent graphical potential than the X360, it doesn't capitalize on that. And therein lies the problem, because as of right now, the only positives that Sony has had on X360 side are, 1) It has/would have better graphics than X360, 2) They have MGS4 and FFXIII. Those are the ONLY things the PS3 has going for it. Period.

Against Sony are a myriad of complaints: It costs too much, Sony's online is much worse, Blu-ray is moot 'cause no one cares enough, the upscaling/downscaling problems the PS3 has make it a joke, and all the other functionality is too gimmicky (PSP connectivity, SIX-AXIS tacked on motion sensing, eye toy, etc).

We all had to have known that the promise of 1080p was too good to be true. I knew it the moment that they were saying it that 1080p content as "common" on PS3 was marketing bullshit. I contend that except for a few PS3 from the ground-up titles, very very few games will pull off 1080p at decent (30+) frame rates. Hell, you need X1950XTXs in crossfire to get that kind of FPS in Oblivion at 1920x1200. And you think the PS3 alone will do that for ya? BS. 1080p is too many pixels.

Microsoft is doing well at all the things that Sony should have. And X360 doesn't have framerate issues because 720p is what the system was made for, and it can handle it well. I've been a Sony fan, a Nintendo fan, and to this day hate Microsoft as a company, but there is no question that as a hi-def next generation system, the X360 beats the PS3 every which way. It's better priced, has a more ergonomic controller, has great exclusives here and on the way, will look just as good at 720p as PS3 will at 1080p (and who cares abour 720p/1080p beside 50"+ plasma/projector owners), and has a 10x better online experience. Exclusives are the only thing that will save Sony's tail, but I hope that people won't fall for that crap and instead just wait for FFXIII and MGS4 to be ported to a popular, more worthwhile system, not an over-priced, underpowered, Bluray-adoption pushing machine.

Well, said.

You know, one of the things that Microsoft has done and that I really appreciate is that their HD-DVD player is OPTIONAL. When I purchased the 360, Microsoft did not push a new format in my face, but rather allowed me to pay for what I wanted, with the possibility of upgrading to an HD-DVD player for movies.

Sure, Blu-ray technology may allow more headroom for games, but seriously: Oblivion took up about 6GB on a regular DVD-9. That game is monstrous! Uncompressed audio can be worked around, and correct me if I'm wrong (please), but the only real benefit I see blu-ray serving would be to allow the metro-sexual developers (e.g. Square-Enix) to fit more of their gorgeous CG.


Getting back on track: Having been through the last generation owning both the PS2 and the XBOX, game companies usually went with the lowest common denominator when it came to graphics. Now, if the PS3 is capable of so much more than the 360 (which I am seriously doubting), it won't matter if there are a small number of exclusives for it. So far, the only exclusives of notice on PS3 are MGS4 and FF. 360 answers with BioShock, Gears, Halo 3, Lost Planet, etc... Sony needs to get its s*** together.

 

[1erCru]

And the other obvious ( whether we like to admit it or not ) decision for Sony to go head to head with Microsoft in the long run. Microsoft might be unethical, a monopoly, an " evil " company as some deem it, but I don't think anyone is going to argue that Microsoft is weak in the ring of competition. If given enough time they just eat up everything in their path ( and I mean literally ).

I still haven't written Sony off, but if they do indeed turns things around by this time next year and are relatively flourishing I would see this as a major accomplishment, even a historical business accomplishment at that.

 

[Particleman]

I do not think it is obvious the PS3 has more graphical potential than X360. The RSX is the weak point of the PS3 imo. It's basically a 7800/7900 but crippled with a 128-bit memory bus and relatively slow memory. Xenos on the 360 on the other hand has unified shaders as well as embedded DRAM which has bandwidth that is in the ballpark of the 512bit memory bus R600 (though admittedly the 360 doesn't have a huge chunk of eDRAM but enough for the framebuffer with FSAA).

And in the gamespot article not only do most of the games look better on the 360, they achieve higher framerates on it as well.

It's becoming more increasingly obvious that although the PS3 seems to have more inherent graphical potential than the X360, it doesn't capitalize on that.QUOTE]

 

[boomheadshot45]

These are all ports. All the textures are the same across both systems.

Just wait for some PS3 only software to come out before making judgement.

Plus, the RSX and Cell processor are both new chips... Just look how the PS2 progressed from launch date to now...

Eh, I really don't care, I'm a windows gamer...

Yeah, it went from ok games to great games. Nobody is questioning the PS brands exclusives, or games, but people are learning how lying, saying that your GPU is way better then the other console (X360) just makes you look stupid when you don't deliver the "goods." Again, Sony's games kickass, the ps2 pwned hard with kh, sly cooper, ratchet and clank, GH, ect. but there whole thing was having games look better then the 360, and it reall isn't working.

 

[dpgdog187]

I just dont get it! Even in March when most of the 2nd generation ps3 games have dropped its still going to be out of the competitively priced range for any other system on the market. I love my 360 and I admit it has its flaws but being real its still 400 brand new in stores whereas the ps3 is 600 for similar hardware.

I dont know about you guys out there but I just cant justify spending $600 on a system that is a little behind the curve if you ask me.

Imaging this, if ATI dropped the r600 today( assuming it will perform similarly to the 8800) and priced it at $400. Would anyone with a little bran power really go and drop $650 on the 8800? I would hope not.

 

[deeznuts]

I just dont get it! Even in March when most of the 2nd generation ps3 games have dropped its still going to be out of the competitively priced range for any other system on the market. I love my 360 and I admit it has its flaws but being real its still 400 brand new in stores whereas the ps3 is 600 for similar hardware.

I dont know about you guys out there but I just cant justify spending $600 on a system that is a little behind the curve if you ask me.

Staying out of the fray a bit but this is just incorrect. For $400 (not including rebates, coupons, etc. just focusing on MSRP) you have the Xbox Premium, which gets you the console and a 20GB HDD, and a wireless controller, correct? What accessories am I missing here?

For $500, you get a PS3 console, the same 20GB HDD, and a blu-ray player. If you add the HD-DVD player to the Xbox 360 you get $600 total price. For $600 on the Sony side you would get the card reader (does this come on the xbox?), WIFI, and a bigger harddrive. So for $600 you are ahead of the curve.

I'm not arguing about value and blu-ray vs. HD-DVD, etc., just clarifying the misconceptions a bit.

Imaging this, if ATI dropped the r600 today( assuming it will perform similarly to the 8800) and priced it at $400. Would anyone with a little bran power really go and drop $650 on the 8800? I would hope not.

Huh? Not a good analogy there buddy. Not even close.

 

[Calefaction]

So what your saying Deeznuts, is that Sony is forcing a second rate HD DVD format down my throat and charging me for it. And why does the 360 need a card reader again? Again, gimmick features that no one gives two shakes about. Give me a PS3 with a regular DVD drive, a 20GB HDD at the 400 dollar price point and I MIGHT consider it, might.

I was a huge PS2 zealot, I thought the original XBox was a hunk of crap in comparison (still do)...but this time around, MS learned their lessons and released a very serious console. I think Sony is in real trouble this time around. Price alone is killing the PS3. Once the launch furvor is over and people aren't trampling each other at malls for them, who is left to buy them? I am a video game maniac and I won't touch one. I currently have a 360, a Wii, a PS2 and a DreamCast hooked up to my TV...there will not be a PS3 next to all of those unless the price comes WAY down, the system starts showing some of it's "obvious potential" and it gets some serious exclusives.

Oh, and whoever said "Gears of War didn't impress me" is a Sony !!!!!!, plain and simple. Gears of Wars was one of the, if not the, best looking console games ever released....and it's fun to boot. If it didn't impress you, you are either dumb, blind, or a !!!!!!...or all three.

 

[Dayvon]

If not for the "Japan" factor, there would be no question that the X360 is the big winner. Sony's console will live and die by the third-party japanese exclusives that it can get. And that's it. Right now, Sony is getting alot of unearned love from Konami and SqEnix, but if that love doesn't continue, the system will die a slow death. Japanese developer's support will go away from Sony only if Nintendo can woo them to make those "big-name" games for the Wii. This is going to be very tough for Nintendo to convince them, especially considering that SqEnix, Konami, and Capcom's big-name games have been soooo graphics-whore oriented. If Nintendo can't win these developers to Wii, then Sony will get a hold in Japan, but I would guess as not the dominant console but as the "high-end" or "luxury" console. The same might be true here in America, but I really see many people that aren't that interested in Japanese games (SqEnix/Konami/Capcom titles) going with the X360 (think GTA/Halo/Madden/EA fans).

 

[Arcygenical]

Imaging this, if ATI dropped the r600 today( assuming it will perform similarly to the 8800) and priced it at $400. Would anyone with a little bran power really go and drop $650 on the 8800? I would hope not.

Yes... If the Nvidia card could play games that I like, whereas the ATI card couldn't... Or the ATI card wouldn't use BRDVD's...

Huge difference...

 

[Nobi125]

And gamespot is biased! Should have seen the scandal last week or so regarding their PS3 page, was quite the outrage lol.

And I'd say wait until March until some decent PS3 games come out! I'm waiting for Heavenly sword:

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=65777&page=4

Those are scans of a magazine showing screenshots, not the screenshots themselves.

In the meantime enjoying my PS3 and my buddies Xbox lol.

You're just as biased in the opposite direction.

 

[dpgdog187]

Staying out of the fray a bit but this is just incorrect. For $400 (not including rebates, coupons, etc. just focusing on MSRP) you have the Xbox Premium, which gets you the console and a 20GB HDD, and a wireless controller, correct? What accessories am I missing here?

I can somewhat understand ur point but ur missing mine. Can u or anyone else find a ps3 priced near retail right now? I have access to one and the cash to pay for the retail version but I wont drop 1000 on it. My argument is that i dont see the purpose in buying it when its just not worth the money.

For $500, you get a PS3 console, the same 20GB HDD, and a blu-ray player. If you add the HD-DVD player to the Xbox 360 you get $600 total price. For $600 on the Sony side you would get the card reader (does this come on the xbox?), WIFI, and a bigger harddrive. So for $600 you are ahead of the curve.

I'm not arguing about value and blu-ray vs. HD-DVD, etc., just clarifying the misconceptions a bit.

And lets be real about the blu-ray vs. HD-DVD malarky. Why as of the current time would you upgrade systems to a media specific console when the standard has yet to be set? I think it is you who has missed the point here. I'm not saying u invalid in what ur saying but ur comments are misplaced and unfounded.

Huh? Not a good analogy there buddy. Not even close.

Lastly, have you heard anything about the r600 yet? GDDR4, anything else needed? I think not. Also, its a speculation.

 

[Brent_Justice]

If you all want my opinion, graphically speaking, the 360 seems superior.

In terms of physics though, there could be greater potential with the Cell.

I am no console expert however. I have not done extensive research into it.


If these are the experiences you will receive with each console as indicated in the article, than that is what you are going to get right now, if you play any of those games you can decide which console is best for you, judging by the article the 360 has higher IQ and higher framerates as it stands right now. The future? Who can predict.


/note, I do not own any console systems at this particular time, PC FTW

 

[Skunt]

It's becoming more increasingly obvious that although the PS3 seems to have more inherent graphical potential than the X360, it doesn't capitalize on that. And therein lies the problem, because as of right now, the only positives that Sony has over X360 are, 1) It has/would have better graphics than X360, 2) They have MGS4 and FFXIII. Those are the ONLY things the PS3 has going for it. Period.

Against Sony are a myriad of complaints: It costs too much, Sony's online is much worse, Blu-ray is moot 'cause no one cares enough, the upscaling/downscaling problems the PS3 has make it a joke, and all the other functionality is too gimmicky (PSP connectivity, SIX-AXIS tacked on motion sensing, eye toy, etc).

We all had to have known that the promise of 1080p was too good to be true. I knew it the moment that they were saying it that 1080p content as "common" on PS3 was marketing bullshit. I contend that except for a few PS3 from the ground-up titles, very very few games will pull off 1080p at decent (30+) frame rates. Hell, you need X1950XTXs in crossfire to get that kind of FPS in Oblivion at 1920x1200. And you think the PS3 alone will do that for ya? BS. 1080p is too many pixels.

Microsoft is doing well at all the things that Sony should have. And X360 doesn't have framerate issues because 720p is what the system was made for, and it can handle it well. I've been a Sony fan, a Nintendo fan, and to this day hate Microsoft as a company, but there is no question that as a hi-def next generation system, the X360 beats the PS3 every which way. It's better priced, has a more ergonomic controller, has great exclusives here and on the way, will look just as good at 720p as PS3 will at 1080p (and who cares abour 720p/1080p beside 50"+ plasma/projector owners), and has a 10x better online experience. Exclusives are the only thing that will save Sony's tail, but I hope that people won't fall for that crap and instead just wait for FFXIII and MGS4 to be ported to a popular, more worthwhile system, not an over-priced, underpowered, Bluray-adoption pushing machine. Because at this point, that's what it is. Sony trying to save their tail because of costly investments (Cell / Bluray) that no one cares enough for. If these things don't become huge technologies, Sony is in it deep because they won't be pulling in patent/component revenue on these high-cost research technologies. At this point, PS3 is a last ditch effort to save Sony and it really doesn't seem to me that consumers should pony up so much money just to save Sony's ass. The other alternative gets you more of what you want (good gaming), and PS3 gets you maybe better graphics, a few exclusive titles that are likely to be ported anyway, and saves Sony's ass. All told, the PS3 is not worth it's price.

Blueray isn't moot, tons of people care about it. The ps3 is also a great blueray player that beats out many standalones that cost much more. Just read the avsforums. You can't compare running crossfire 1900xt's to the ps3 because Oblivion is poorly optimized. On a closed system like the ps3 you can do much more for less. There will be definitely a decent number of 1080p games. It's all about the games anyway and PS3 has lots of good stuff coming. SH5, MGS4, DMC3, etc..

 

[aaaaaaaaaaandy]

ps3 has lots of good stuff coming? LOL. halo3. the end. mgs4...played mgs2, kinda liked it, all the rest werent that great. dmc? really think that game can save a $600 system with like 3 decent exclusives? idn wtf sh5 is so i really cant say anything about it. both systems are crazy good, but 360 just beast ps3. im sick and tired of sonys lies and terrible formats/systems. umd ftw? md ftw? no.

 

[gorilla show]

ps3 has lots of good stuff coming? LOL. halo3. the end. mgs4...played mgs2, kinda liked it, all the rest werent that great. dmc? really think that game can save a $600 system with like 3 decent exclusives? idn wtf sh5 is so i really cant say anything about it. both systems are crazy good, but 360 just beast ps3. im sick and tired of sonys lies and terrible formats/systems. umd ftw? md ftw? no.

I think he meant Silent Hill 5. I like Silent Hill, but no way in hell am I buying a PS3 anytime soon. Hope it goes multi-platform.

The only games that I want on 360 from PS3 are MGS4 and.... wait.... that's it. Please Sony, if you want me to invest $600 to play games (as I don't care about movies too much), get some more GOOD exclusives.

One more thing, I <3 FPS's, and PS3's "SIXAXIS" (cheap-ass name) just doesn't feel right for those games. Unless there's full keyboard and mouse support, or I can use the 360 controller pad (laughs), I ain't gettin it.

 

[aaaaaaaaaaandy]

even if you could use mouse and keyboard, sony/microsoft would find a way to disable it for online/competitive play so that all the playing field is level. but i really buy games for the online/multiplayer so i bet you have a different opinion on it. the 360 controller is just better suited.

 

[r3awak3n]

I have a PS3, had it since launch and unfortunatly i havent been able to play it (prob played it 5 hours till now) and i have Resistance which so far is a great game. I am though thinking of selling it cuz i need a computer to do work on and being in the last year of college i need to do work and not have distractions like the ps3. I think alot of the xbox !!!!!!s just praise the xbox because they have one and thats it, they are afraid their console will fail. I like the x360, i think its a good console, gears of war looks amazing and halo 3 will be a good game too (even though i never really understood the whole halo hype, to me its just another FPS). Now the reason i bought the ps3 was cuz i wanted to sell it and make money, but ended up keeping it, i dunno, i oppened it and really liked it, obviously the hardware is amazing and sony is loosing money right now. Right now i think all the games out are probably pushing the ps3 to about 10% of what it can do, they just came out, 360 is established so it will take a while. I do believe sony will pull it off, they have to or they will be toast ahah but there are great games comming out, MGS4, DMC, FF and fight night 3 is comming out in 2 days which will show what the ps3 is kinda of capable off. Some games are already at 1080p and more games will b at 1080, it is perfectly capable of doing many games at that resolution and like many ppl alrady said for 600 dollars u getting a great console and a bluray player (apparently decent quality bluray), but i wont buy movies for a while, for a long while so that didnt really count for me keeping it. The thing just looks amazing and i was a fan of the ps2 so i do like the controller. I also really like the wii and was going to buy one, and will if i do sell the ps3. I dont see a competion, i see a good future for both consoles and as always it will all boil down to games, alot of them will come for both systems with same graphics but the ps3 isnt much more expensive than the x360, lets not forget that the add on hddvd costs 200 bucks and you are getting only a 20 gb hard drive and no card reader or wifi. Also, dvd might bottleneck future x360 games (i hope not). But all this is just IMO.

 

[boomheadshot45]

I have a PS3, had it since launch and unfortunatly i havent been able to play it (prob played it 5 hours till now) and i have Resistance which so far is a great game. I am though thinking of selling it cuz i need a computer to do work on and being in the last year of college i need to do work and not have distractions like the ps3. I think alot of the xbox !!!!!!s just praise the xbox because they have one and thats it, they are afraid their console will fail. .

I think your just wrong. I love my 360, why, well first, great games are out/coming out, halo 3, mass effect, too human, crackdown, blue dragon, lost planet, eternal sonata, lost odessy, command and conquer 3, halo wars, kane and lynch, ect. I love my 360 because of the games, controller, xbl, and because its a great system. I love the PS3 because of sonys exclusives, the look, the web browser, not so much the controller, but how i can exchange a 250 gb hdd into it. And I love the Wii for the controller, games, look, dashboard, and only i don't like too much is the graphics (probaly cuz I'm spoiled from the 360 and PS3). I don't have a PS3 so I cannot comment on any games in person, except motorstorm, played the demo @ target, it was awsome. Your just wrong. Yes I admit the 360 has some problems, every console has problems. And why would I be afraid that its so-called "going to fail?" With all of those great games coming out, its not "going to fail."

 

[deeznuts]

ps3 has lots of good stuff coming? LOL. halo3. the end. mgs4...played mgs2, kinda liked it, all the rest werent that great. dmc? really think that game can save a $600 system with like 3 decent exclusives? idn wtf sh5 is so i really cant say anything about it. both systems are crazy good, but 360 just beast ps3. im sick and tired of sonys lies and terrible formats/systems. umd ftw? md ftw? no.

Not lies, in my opinion, but failed promises.

How about CD's for the win? Probably the most widely used format still, and Sony was one-half of that. And Blu-Ray is NOT Sony, it's an open format, with Sony being the most vocal. I'm not saying they will win, but Blu-Ray has much more support. I think HD-DVD has less then 10 supporters, some of them very influential I admit. But Disney and Apple, two very influential companies are Blu-Ray supporters. Here is BD:

BluRay DVD:

Board of Directors
Apple
Dell
HP
Hitachi
LG
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic
Pioneer
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Sun Microsystems
TDK
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney
Warner Bros.



Contributors

Adobe Systems
Almedio Inc.
Alticast
Aplix Corporation
ArcSoft, Inc.
ATI Technologies Inc.
Atmel Corporation
AudioDev AB
Broadcom Corporation
Canon Inc.
CMC Magnetics Corporation
Coding Technologies GmbH
Cryptography Research Inc.
CyberLink Corp.
DATARIUS Technologies GmbH
DCA Inc.
Deluxe Media Services Inc.
Dolby Laboratories Inc.
DTS, Inc.
Electronic Arts Inc.
Esmertec
Fuji Photo Film Co. Ltd.
Fujitsu Ltd.
Gibson Guitar Corp.
Horizon Semiconductor
Imation Corp.
InterVideo Inc.
Kenwood Corporation
Lionsgate Entertainment
LITE-ON IT Corporation
LSI Logic
MediaTek Inc.
Meridian Audio Ltd.
Metta Technology
Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co.Ltd.
Mitsui Chemicals Inc.
Moser Baer India Limited
NEC Electronics Corporation
Nero
Optodisc Technology Corporation
Paramount Pictures Corporation
Pixela Corporation
Prodisc Technology Inc.
Pulstec Industrial Co., Ltd.
Ricoh Co., Ltd.
Ritek Corporation
ShibaSoku Co. Ltd.
Sigma Designs Inc.
Sonic Solutions
Sonopress
Sony BMG Music Entertainment
ST Microelectronics
Sunext
Taiyo Yuden Co., Ltd.,
Texas Instruments, Inc.
Universal Music Group
Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.
Visionare Corporation
Zentek Technology Japan, Inc.
ZOOtech Ltd.
Zoran Corporation



Members

Alpine Electronics Inc.
Asahi Kasei Microsystems Co., Ltd.
ashampoo GmbH & Co. KG
Bandai Visual Co. Ltd.
BASF AG
Basler Vision Technologies
BenQ Corporation
B.H.A. Corporation
Bose Corporation
B&W Group
The Cannery
Cheertek Inc.
Cinram Manufacturing Inc.
D&M holdings, Inc.
Daewoo Electronics Corporation
Daikin Industries, Ltd.
Daxon Technology Inc.
Degussa
Eclipse Data Technologies
Elpida Memory, Inc.
ESS Technology Inc.
Expert Magnetics Corp.
Fujitsu Ten Ltd.
Funai Electric Co., Ltd.
GalleryPlayer Media Networks
Gear Software
Hie Electronics, Inc.
Hoei Sangyo Co., Ltd.
IMAGICA Corp.
INFODISC Technology Co., Ltd.
Infomedia Inc.
Intersil Corporation
Kadokawa Holdings Inc.
Kaleidescape, Inc.
Kitano Co., Ltd.
Konica Minolta Opto Inc.
Laser Pacific Media Corp.
Lauda Co. Ltd.
Lead Data Inc.
LEADER ELECTRONICS CORP
Lenovo
Linn Products Ltd.
LINTEC Corporation
M2 Engineering AB
MainConcept AG
Mitsumi Electric Co., Ltd.
Must Technology Co., Ltd.
MX Entertainment
Netflix Inc.
Newtech Infosystems Inc.
NEXAPM Systems Technology Inc.
Nichia Corporation
Nikkatsu Corporation
NTT Electronics Corporation
nVidia Corporation
OC Oerlikon Balzer AG
Omnibus Japan Inc.
Onkyo Corporation
Online Media Technologies Ltd.
Ono Sokki Co., Ltd.
OPT Corporation
Orbit Corp.
Origin Electric Co., Ltd.
Osmosys SA
Pinnacle Systems
PoINT Software & Systems GmbH
Pony Canyon Enterprise
PowerFile
Primera Technology, Inc.
Quanta Storage Inc.
Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
Rimage Corporation
Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.
Dr. Schwab Inspection Technology GmbH
Shinano Kenshi Co. Ltd.
Singulus Technologies
STEAG ETA-OPTIK GmbH
Sumitomo Bakelite
Tao Group Limited
Targray Technology International Inc.
TEAC Corporation
Teijin Chemicals Ltd.
THX Ltd.
Toei Video Company Ltd.
Toho Company, Ltd.
Toppan Printing Co., Ltd.
TOPTICA Photonics AG
Trailer Park
UmeDisc Ltd.
Vivendi Universal Games
Yamaha Corporation
Yokogawa Electric Corporation
1K Studios, LLC

link for BD-DVD list:
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html

 

[Charles]

ps3 has lots of good stuff coming? LOL. halo3. the end.

I'm sorry to say this, but although Halo was a decent game... a lot of people just didn't like it.

Anybody who can say that Halo 3 alone can beat the PS3 and every game made for the PS3 is just one of the few people who are obsessed with the Halo series to the point where that's the only game they need for them to be sold on the XBox 360.

I don't think that's the majority of people.

 

[vietkangta]

halo is a mediocre game compared to other fps shooters. I dont know why halo is so hyped.

 

[aaaaaaaaaaandy]

the reason it is so hyped is because there is no better console fps. why is cs so hyped? because its the best pc fps. i guess cs isnt that great either...

and well, i almost am one of those people. i did pretty much buy a 360 for halo3. but i do buy other games to hold me off until then. its not really like i bought it "only" for halo. and i would like to know of a ps3 game that might beat it? maybe it cant beat all of them together obviously, but i really dont see any ps3 game coming out that can beat it in gameplay. graphics right now on ps3 are not better, and games in both systems are only going to progress. even if the ps3 games were prettier, thats a really dumb reason to buy a specific console.

 

[Hulk]

For $600 on the Sony side you would get the card reader (does this come on the xbox?), WIFI, and a bigger harddrive. So for $600 you are ahead of the curve..

card reader?

CARD READER?!

What the hell do I need a card reader for?? screw sony.

I bought a 360 core for $200 with the MIR and couldnt be happier.
What I want is: console, game, memory card. That's all. No markeing bullshit like sony has been feeding you.

 

[gfresh]

I totally bought a wii to use the sd card reader built in it.

 

[r3awak3n]

card reader?

CARD READER?!

What the hell do I need a card reader for?? screw sony.

I bought a 360 core for $200 with the MIR and couldnt be happier.
What I want is: console, game, memory card. That's all. No markeing bullshit like sony has been feeding you.

the 360 core is a not so next gen console... but for 200 bucks is a good deal!

Card reader is pretty pointless i have to agree, i rather see pictures on my PC but i would prob use it if i had a 50" tv. And the 60 gig HD and wireless isnt worth the 100 dollars, the only reason i got the 60 is cuz i though i was gonna sell it. Team xcecuter already figured out a way to connect external HDs to the PS3 so no more buying overpriced 2.5 laptop HDs.

One thing i love about the X360 is XBL, amazing service, sony is sooooo behind but they could go ahead if they start offering a good service for free, which sicnerlery i really doubt they will step up MS on that.

On the BR topic, im starting to get more convinced BR will probably prevail, i mean they got alot of supporters and not only apple will snatch all its !!!!!!s to get BR but sony will take a few of the PC and MS ones. Its really a shame they are actually doing this to the consumer but oh well, different debate.

And gamewise, i also dont see the hype on halo, im not being a hater but i really dont, it might be the best console FPS but i says FPS=PC. Also dont forget Kill Zone and Unreal is comming out for the PS3, so they might change things a little.

and about the Wii, ahah love it, lots of fun... not getting it because i know everyone will have one so i can play for free : )

 

[Charles]

On the BR topic, im starting to get more convinced BR will probably prevail, i mean they got alot of supporters and not only apple will snatch all its !!!!!!s to get BR but sony will take a few of the PC and MS ones. Its really a shame they are actually doing this to the consumer but oh well, different debate.

Yeah, I think all us techies are saying/wants blu-ray to fail because it's currently "hip" to criticize Sony/their rootkits/proprietary stuff etc.

The fact of the matter is, blu-ray isn't Sony. The biggest reason why Sony's proprietary formats failed before was because they were propriety. Blu ray, on the other hand, is an open media format and supported by MORE than just Sony.

In reality, techies represent a relatively small portion of consumers, and Sony has a really good reputation with the mass market (waits a moment for 20 hojillion people to say Sony is "overrated." ... okay... done? I'll continue now). And that reputation will certainly allow them to do things that nobody else can.

Take the Cell/BluRay for example. I'm glad that Sony went out on a limb this round. They are using their name to entitle them at a chance to try something "new" in the computational/storage realm, just like Nintendo went out on a limb with their reputation to try something new in the interface realm.

Microsoft, although they make a great product, really has brought nothing "fresh" to the table this round. So even if Sony/Nintendo fail (which they probably won't), at least they tried. Microsoft is just using the cookie-cutter next-gen formula to bust out their new system. In part, that's how they got out of the gate so early. Heck, I could have designed the XBox 360. Stick 3 pentiums in a box with a next-gen graphics card.

 

[Charles]

And the 60 gig HD and wireless isnt worth the 100 dollars,

I'm assuming you didn't get the XBox 360 Premium system. Their HD is also $100

 

[aaaaaaaaaaandy]

And gamewise, i also dont see the hype on halo, im not being a hater but i really dont, it might be the best console FPS but i says FPS=PC. Also dont forget Kill Zone and Unreal is comming out for the PS3, so they might change things a little.

yeah...killzone...cg ftw...

unreal for a console? you kidding? unreal will always be a pc game. no console port could ever compare to it. omg xbox has unreal games already! who cares. its not a great console game. killzone...remember how well the first one did? chances are unreal will be ported to 360 anyway. sony isnt holding many exclusives at all. and if FPS=PC, then why do you even care about kill zone and unreal? is it only because theyre coming out for ps3? is it because you want something to beat halo? i sound like a complete halo junkie and fan boy, but im sorry, they wont beat it. ill put money on that.

 

[r3awak3n]

Yeah, I think all us techies are saying/wants blu-ray to fail because it's currently "hip" to criticize Sony/their rootkits/proprietary stuff etc.

The fact of the matter is, blu-ray isn't Sony. The biggest reason why Sony's proprietary formats failed before was because they were propriety. Blu ray, on the other hand, is an open media format and supported by MORE than just Sony.

In reality, techies represent a relatively small portion of consumers, and Sony has a really good reputation with the mass market (waits a moment for 20 hojillion people to say Sony is "overrated." ... okay... done? I'll continue now). And that reputation will certainly allow them to do things that nobody else can.

Take the Cell/BluRay for example. I'm glad that Sony went out on a limb this round. They are using their name to entitle them at a chance to try something "new" in the computational/storage realm, just like Nintendo went out on a limb with their reputation to try something new in the interface realm.

Microsoft, although they make a great product, really has brought nothing "fresh" to the table this round. So even if Sony/Nintendo fail (which they probably won't), at least they tried. Microsoft is just using the cookie-cutter next-gen formula to bust out their new system. In part, that's how they got out of the gate so early. Heck, I could have designed the XBox 360. Stick 3 pentiums in a box with a next-gen graphics card.

very good post, very on point. i really never though of it that way but its kinda true, they are trying something different (even though the programmers are running in circles trying to program for the cell, but it is innovatice, same with the DS and the Wii ways of controlling, im even going to say, even the PSP is innovative, its the most powerful portable ever made and a very decent all in one (if only it had more games). It is indeed cool to diss sony now a days, i dont care much for sony, they have some overpriced products (TVs and laptops for example) but they also have alot of quality stuff, lets not forget that sony makes excellent videocameras for professional use, i think they were the ones trying to get the industry to film digital instead of film ( : regardless they have some good products are are indeed trying to innovate something, the ps3 is indeed a next gen console, it has wifi, bluetooth, supports up to 1080p, is a next gen movie player and a next gen game player, has a hard drive and the ability for you to instal a different OS into it.
I sincerely hope they all make it so that us consumer can get better quality games at cheaper prices, peope that are hopping the ps3 doesnt succed are not thinking of the future, more competition = better quality and cheaper prices!

@ Charles - i dont even have an x360 : ) but yeah i knew a 20 gig HD for the xbox is $100... humm, i think its not only sony that is trying to rip off their customers.

 

[r3awak3n]

yeah...killzone...cg ftw...

unreal for a console? you kidding? unreal will always be a pc game. no console port could ever compare to it. omg xbox has unreal games already! who cares. its not a great console game. killzone...remember how well the first one did? chances are unreal will be ported to 360 anyway. sony isnt holding many exclusives at all. and if FPS=PC, then why do you even care about kill zone and unreal? is it only because theyre coming out for ps3? is it because you want something to beat halo? i sound like a complete halo junkie and fan boy, but im sorry, they wont beat it. ill put money on that.

lol.
ok, first of, i am mentioning kill zone and unreal because i am not the only person out there, I prefer FPS on PC but i dont discard the fact that other people perfer them on a console. Unreal is a pc game but it can easily be ported and be sucessful on a console, it is up to whoever is developing it. The first killzone did pretty bad but i played it and it wasnt that bad, i think the reason it did so bad is cuz everyone compared it to halo but sincerely i didnt think it was too bad (but then again i like FPS on pc). Kill Zone might be CG galore but why not wait to see, instead of dissing it before it is even out.
I couldnt care if halo 3 fails or prevails, i want it to be an excellent game, that only increases and establishes new boundaries for console FPS (again if you had read my posts before you notice me giving props to gears of war which looks amazing).

and i am sorry, you do sound like a !!!!!!.

 

[aaaaaaaaaaandy]

im just sick of people believing in false promises that most of the time dont come true. sorry if i come off as a dick.

 

[pArTy]

And gamespot is biased! Should have seen the scandal last week or so regarding their PS3 page, was quite the outrage lol.

And I'd say wait until March until some decent PS3 games come out! I'm waiting for Heavenly sword:

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=65777&page=4

Those are scans of a magazine showing screenshots, not the screenshots themselves.

In the meantime enjoying my PS3 and my buddies Xbox lol.

That game still doesnt look that great. If you think about how much is actualy being drawn. The environments are really small so it doesnt take as much to draw them.

I think the PS3 will really shine when the developers start using the cell for extreme physics. PS3 and xbox seem even with graphics power but CPU power the PS3 seems like it blows the xbox 360 out of the water with its 3 core CPU.

 

[r3awak3n]

im just sick of people believing in false promises that most of the time dont come true. sorry if i come off as a dick.

ahah, well why do care? its their (our) problem and not yours.

 

[MentatYP]

Yeah, I think all us techies are saying/wants blu-ray to fail because it's currently "hip" to criticize Sony/their rootkits/proprietary stuff etc.

... which is hilarious considering that techies should be backing BD over HD-DVD, if nothing else except for the storage capacity potential of BD. A dual-layer BD can hold 50GB! How much can an HD-DVD hold? 30GB. Early discussions on BD vs. HD-DVD (haven't heard anything different lately about this) crunched the numbers and claimed that BD is the only way to store a 2-hour movie at 1080p with lossless audio at full bitrate on one side of a disc. HD-DVD by comparison would have to be a dual-layer dual-sided disc to do the same. What techie would choose a flipper over a single-sided disc, all else being equal?

It's all a bit silly really. Sony are huge, so they'll make some mistakes along the way with all the products they put out, but shunning BD because Sony is its loudest advocate is ignoring the bigger picture that BD really is the better technology in the HD disc war.

On the topic of 360 vs. PS3 graphics, it's really too early to tell. I reckon nobody has utilized the full potential of either console just yet, so the body of work doesn't help us, and the systems are so different hardware-wise that it doesn't work to just look at the spec sheets. I'm thinking in a couple years we can do a much better comparison and see which one shines the brightest.

 

[DarkLegacy]

I liked Microsofts approach much more this round than Sony's. MS delivered what people wanted & expected out of a "gaming console," & that was a rock solid gaming system. Sony, IMO, molded together a bunch of ideas to expand the capabilities of there system. Also did alot of research on the competition & implemented some of there strategies to make it there own for the console. I still think the PS3 will turn out great, but It will no where meet the expectations that some people & myself had set for it. Outside of the extra storage capability that the media is able to hold, theres no real advantage for the system. The GPU is already being pushed but theres still headroom on the CPU. That is what the developers will have to take advantage of to really get the full potential of the console. Even with that said, some are feeling there would still be no advantage as a poster said before. It's a trade off. X360 has the superior GPU & the PS3 (On paper) has the superior CPU. Also seeing how many popular exclusive games have turned multiplatformed over the past couple of years, the PS3 will look like a PS1 all over again. Many of there exclusive titles being RPG's & poted Japan based games.

 

[phide]

Unreal is a pc game but it can easily be ported and be sucessful on a console, it is up to whoever is developing it.

UT2007 is going to be a good showcase for their multi-platform UE 3.0. For Epic, console portability is a fairly simple matter. Even if '07 doesn't get critical acclaim or massive sales, it ends up demonstrating the versatility of the Unreal platform.

Sony are huge, so they'll make some mistakes along the way with all the products they put out, but shunning BD because Sony is its loudest advocate is ignoring the bigger picture that BD really is the better technology in the HD disc war.

You're absolutely right here, but you do have to understand the needs of the market as a whole. Most aren't interested in 1080p with lossless TrueHD. Consider the massive adoption of MP3/iTunes, and then consider the ultimate failure of DVD-Audio and particularly of SACD, and you'll understand that most aren't concerned with sound at all. We have two formats that allow us to experience music in ways we have never experienced it before, but, unfortunately, nobody really cares. Most consumers aren't interested in over-complication, nor do they want price hikes.

While you and I may want 50GB optical media, most consumers just want something that fits their needs, and HD-DVD does that well and does it cheaper.

 

[w1retap]

Did you guys get the technical data specs with theoretical bandwith capabilities of both systems? I posted it quite a while ago in the other ps3 graphics vs 360 graphics thread over in the gaming forum.

Xbox 360 vs. PS3

Triangle Setup
Xbox 360 - 500 Million Triangles/sec
PS3 - 250 Million Triangles/sec

Vertex Shader Processing
Xbox 360 - 6.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 2.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 16 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 1.5 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 12 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 8 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec

Filtered Texture Fetch
Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec
PS3 - 12.0 Billion Texels/sec

Vertex Texture Fetch
Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec
PS3 - 4.0 Billion Texels/sec

Pixel Shader Processing with 16 Filtered Texels Per Cycle (Pixel ALU x Clock)
Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec

Pixel Shader Processing without Textures (Pixel ALU x Clock)
Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec

Multisampled Fill Rate
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz)
PS3 - 8.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz)

Pixel Fill Rate with 4x Multisampled Anti-Aliasing
Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz / 4)
PS3 - 2.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz / 4)

Pixel Fill Rate without Anti-Aliasing
Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)
PS3 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)

Frame Buffer Bandwidth
Xbox 360 - 256.0 GB/sec (dedicated for frame buffer rendering)
PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with other graphics data: textures and vertices)
PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)
PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)

Texture/Vertex Memory Bandwidth
Xbox 360 - 22.4 GB/sec (shared with CPU)
Xbox 360 - 14.4 GB/sec (with 8.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)
Xbox 360 - 12.4 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)
PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with frame buffer)
PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)
PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)

Shader Model
Xbox 360 - Shader Model 3.0+ / Unified Shader Architecture
PS3 - Shader Model 3.0 / Discrete Shader Architecture

 

[r3awak3n]

UT2007 is going to be a good showcase for their multi-platform UE 3.0. For Epic, console portability is a fairly simple matter. Even if '07 doesn't get critical acclaim or massive sales, it ends up demonstrating the versatility of the Unreal platform.


You're absolutely right here, but you do have to understand the needs of the market as a whole. Most aren't interested in 1080p with lossless TrueHD. Consider the massive adoption of MP3/iTunes, and then consider the ultimate failure of DVD-Audio and particularly of SACD, and you'll understand that most aren't concerned with sound at all. We have two formats that allow us to experience music in ways we have never experienced it before, but, unfortunately, nobody really cares. Most consumers aren't interested in over-complication, nor do they want price hikes.

While you and I may want 50GB optical media, most consumers just want something that fits their needs, and HD-DVD does that well and does it cheaper.

that is very true, people are paying 1 dollar for unbelivably compressed songs on itunes because its cheap and easy. Audiowise, i agree with you, unfortunatly to achieve good audio you need way more than a sacd or dvdaudio player, you need high end audio components and not everyone is able to afford them, and alot ppl dont care. Average consumers will be happy with 720p and dont really care about true HD but prices will come down, 1080 p sets will fall under 1000 dollars and i think people will want to enjoy their movies as much as they can (just like everyone nowadays has a 5.1 surround system, 6 years ago, who had these systems?) The ppl behind BD arent stupid, they know they cant be more expensive than HDDVD or they will fall behind. Plus at the prices right now, BD is doing pretty good, PS3 has it, all the MAC line up will have it, Dells has it too, etc... I predict that the sucess of the successor of DVD will be whoever can provide a way for the people to watch these mediums after purchasing something that has it integrated (dunno if i made sense), but it was kind of the same with dvd, alot of ppl adapted to dvd through their computers that came with a dvd player. They need to reach the masses. If they reach the techie, they are not going anywhere ahha