Got my A5's today.

[M4573R]

Been listening to music all day and it's sad to hear how low quality some of my music is, it sounds terrible now. I tried playing some TF2, however, and everything sounds great except my weapon sounds. They seems pretty muffled for some reason and it gives me a headache. The settings are set on 2.0 so I don't know what else I could change. Its such a radical difference after listening to crisp music all day. Any thought on a way to improve this?

 

[Zinn]

Any thought on a way to improve this?

go back to crappy speakers. fidelity is both a blessing and a curse.

 

[M4573R]

Fair enough, I was maybe thinking it was still trying to use a center speaker, or maybe my drivers would emulating surround sound wrong.

 

[goldy]

I had a similar experience with TF2 and a pair of swan speakers. Everything sounded great and I heard a few sounds I did not hear before, for instance the scout makes a gulping sound when drinking the energy drink. But anyways, I also felt that the weapon sound effects sounded muffled and weak. I think it was due to the lack of bass for me, for instance the demo's sticky gun made a thumping noise when shooting a sticky and it sounded muffled/flat compared to a set of z-5500 I had previously owned.

 

[drleospaceman]

I found the A5's fatiguing and muffled in TF2 as well, compared to my Logitech X-540's which I can play it on all day.

 

[Old Hippie]

fidelity is both a blessing and a curse.

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[Mr. B]

Are you listening to 128kb-ish MP3s? The A5's will reveal compression flaws. Also, what source are they plugged into? If it's a sound card, are you using EQ and or other sound enhancement settings?

Personally I think the Audioengines are absolutely superb for music, but I have been phasing out MP3s in favor of lossless FLAC. I also dumped my X-Fi soundcard and got a USB DAC.

As for gaming, I also found the A5s to fall short in gaming with regard to weapon sounds... they need to be paired with a sub to fix that issue.

[edit] There was an adjustment period for me in which I was not immediately satisfied with the sound. My last speakers with the Logitech Z-5300's and it took some time to adjust to the lack of a sub and the A5's characteristics. Further, several folks insist your new speakers need to be "burned in" before you can pass judgement... which you can do just by using them for 50-100 hours. I played pink noise on mine for a couple weeks while i was out at work. http://www.burninwave.com/

I thought I noticed a circumstantial difference but it might have just been a placebo effect.

 

[Shrimpanzee]

If you can afford it, get a subwoofer.

You don't know what you're missing until you do.

 

[Lodrin]

If you need oomph, or rumble, then yes you need a subwoofer. The good news is that decent subwoofers are cheap and very easy to add to an A5 system. All you need is an RCA cable and a low range $100 8" ported subwoofer like an ESW-8.

As for fatiguing,

1) Disable X-Fi Crystalizer, as that's for people with gimp speaker setups.
2) Try moving the speakers around, and avoid toe in (angling the speakers directly at you.)
3) Lift the speakers higher off your computer desk using stands, or books. This will help avoid sound bouncing off your desk.
4) Remove and/or limit solid surfaces behind you that might be causing reverb as well.
5) Use an equalizer to lower high end frequencies slightly.

 

[Mr. B]

I wish I would have thought to mention one of Lodrin's great points. Positioning is everything on near field speakers like these. When I first got mine they sat right on my desk and the sound was unimpressive. Elevated closer to eye level, they shine. Also, as they are rear-ported, you need at least 6 inches of open space behind them.

 

[seemlessthunder]

Like MrB said, make sure they're ear level and positioned right. The other thing I found is that even with speakers that can go down really low, you don't actually want them to since they'll struggle on the lowest bass a little. What you want to do is cut them off 10-15hz above their low frequency and let a sub handle the rest. That way you get the extra oomph for games/movies, without sacrificing overall sound quality.

Do not, though, compromise and get a crappy pair of 2.1's instead but rather just keep them and wait till you add a sub to them. You'll enjoy it more later on.

 

[M4573R]

It's not that I miss the bass, I think the speakers sound great Although I do think I'll add a sub later. It's just the weapon sounds seem crappy in TF2. I don't really know how to describe it. Every other sound from every game I've heard sounds amazing and even all other sounds in TF2, so maybe it's just the quality of the audio. It sounds like the high frequencies of the shooting sounds are getting cut off. It sounds like I'm shooting into a pillow, though that's a bit extreme.

I will try disable the extras in my drivers to see if that helps. I'll also try repositioning my speaker, though they sound amazing as is.

Side note: Can I ever use my sub output from my sound card for 2.1? or do I have to run it from the back of my A5's?

 

[Alai]

Preferably use the sub out on your soundcard. Always use output connections from speakers as last resort. This includes headphones and subwoofers.

 

[M4573R]

Hm, my only options in my settings are 2.0/2.1 as a one. When in stereo mode, nothing is put out on the center/sub line. I have an Auzentech Forte. So maybe I have to use the line out on the speakers?

 

[Impulse]

Fair enough, I was maybe thinking it was still trying to use a center speaker, or maybe my drivers would emulating surround sound wrong.

Did you set it to 2.0 under both TF2 and Windows? What sound card are you using? With Creative X-Fi's and Audigys there's all sorts of threads where people swear it sounds better under games (not music) when they set it to 5.1 in Windows and the game and then only set it to 2.0 or headphones (for those using headphones obviously) within the Creative control panel. Then again I also remember some comments about how HL2-engine games were the exception to that...

You could play with the volumes too, raise it in-game and lower it on the speakers, etc. The HL2 engine does it's own software-based sound processing tho, so it's likely that other posters are right and the source is too blame (i.e. they've got some weakly sampled sound effects or w/e). That or it's just personal preference and you might be better off pairing the A5 with a sub, sounds like you're happy with how they sound w/music tho (and other games even) so at $100-150 it's kind of a substantial investment just for games. Worth investigating tho.

P.S. How much space is there between your A5 and the wall behind them btw? Could be crucial to the bass... Surprised no one's mentioned that.

 

[Impulse]

Hm, my only options in my settings are 2.0/2.1 as a one. When in stereo mode, nothing is put out on the center/sub line. I have an Auzentech Forte. So maybe I have to use the line out on the speakers?

Umm, I would think splitting the signal (at the sound card) and feeding both the sub and the speakers off the sound card would be better than hooking up the sub to the speaker's amp/line out no?

 

[M4573R]

My speakers are about a foot away from the wall.
I current have it set to 2.0 in windows and TF2. My audio control panel doesn't allow me to change the speaker setup, I think one of the options during setup didn't get installed.

I don't know how to make the sound card split the signal for the speakers and sub for 2.1. When it's set to stereo, it all comes out the front channel.

 

[bencho]

Hmmmm... I have my speakers set up bout 6 inches from the wall and they get a decent amount of bass. Positioning is key when it comes to audio equipment. When you say muffled, what exactly do you mean? Perhaps I'm experiencing something similar? I play L4D and I still don't have a sub yet. Guns and things make big booming sounds. The A5's lack a lot of that deep end range so maybe this "muffled" sound is merely your speakers playing what they play best, but "cutting out" what they cannot play. Try adding a sub and see if the extra extension helps you hear what you are used to. That's what I'm thinking, correct me if I'm wrong people, I"d like to verify this as well.

Also, how many hours have you logged on them? After like 2 days of straight looping through my entire library on shuffle, the A5's seemed warmer to me. In the beginning it seemed like the highs were really acute and it hurt my head to listen to them. Give em some time to break in

Remember, these are budget monitors. You'll need a much deeper pocket if you want this amazing sound etc etc. As mentioned the A5's will reproduce errors you were not aware of. "Fidelity is a blessing and a curse". You'll need higher quality music to fully appreciate what the A5's can do.

Think of it this way. You watch porn I assume? Let's assume you do. Porn is nice. Girls are pretty. But what about this move to HD porn? You're like whoa HD porn! But then again, you notice all the little things that makeup doesn't cover up. So it's a double edged sword. Plus, moving to something "better" than logitechs or other PC speakers will train your ears to be more acute and thus, an audiophile is born... painfully wishing to attain ultimate fidelity as he realizes that things cannot be unlearned and you will never be satisfied with lesser quality anything.... whoops life story

 

[Impulse]

I don't know how to make the sound card split the signal for the speakers and sub for 2.1. When it's set to stereo, it all comes out the front channel.

I meant splitting it with a physical splitter, Y-splitter, then send one cable to the sub and one cable to the A5... The downside is you then have two volume knobs to tweak and such and the A5 are still gonna be trying to reproduce some of the low end, but otherwise it works. If the sub happens to have a line out then that might be a better option instead.

 

[dderidex]

Been listening to music all day and it's sad to hear how low quality some of my music is, it sounds terrible now. I tried playing some TF2, however, and everything sounds great except my weapon sounds. They seems pretty muffled for some reason and it gives me a headache. The settings are set on 2.0 so I don't know what else I could change. Its such a radical difference after listening to crisp music all day. Any thought on a way to improve this?

Regarding TF2 - Valve doesn't use EAX (et al) features for their games, and has their own, proprietary audio system. It's...not great at HRTF. If you had an X-Fi, this would be fixable. First, make sure you UNCHECK 'Synchronize with control panel' in the X-Fi controls. Tell Windows (IE., in the Windows audio control panel) once you've done that that you have a 7.1 surround (or 5.1, or whatever - but 'surround') system. This is what TF2 (and all other Source-engine games) use to determine audio channels to use.

In the X-Fi control panel, of course, you want to tell it what you ACTUALLY have, specifically, 'headphones' (and for the 2.0 speaker setups out there, that), and make sure to enable the new option "X-Fi CMSS-3D Virtual" (or "X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone"). This provides some truly badass accurate HRTF with good headphones and even okay HRTF with just 2 speakers.

BUT...obviously, you need an X-Fi for that. And DEFINITELY don't use this when listening to music - it really borks the soundstage (one of the nice uses of the X-Fi having multiple 'modes' - you can have CMSS-3D enabled in "game" mode and disabled in "Entertainment" mode).

1) Disable X-Fi Crystalizer, as that's for people with gimp speaker setups.

Not sure I agree with that. Crystalizer was billed as 'restoring the fidelity to low bitrate MP3s'...which, obviously, it can't. However, it DOES make low bitrate recordings "sound better". Distorted (badly) in the case of music, of course, but...quite a few games have their audio files in 128kbps MP3 or worse. The Crystalizer does help make these sound "better". Game explosions get a little more 'oomph', metallic pings of reloading weapons sound a little more brassy, echoes down canyon walls (in EAX titles) sound a little more distant, etc.

That's not true of all games, though. This is definitely a case-by-case thing, and, as with the CMSS-3D thing, NOT something for the other X-Fi modes. It has some use when gaming, on some titles, but nowhere else.

 

[Lodrin]

The OP complained about fatigue, and fatigue is often caused by being on axis with the tweeter, listening to bright sounding audio. Crystalizer brightens audio.

 

[Lateralus]

I found that I enjoy my A5s more with a sub, but I still need to experiment with placement and burn-in as I'm not getting the amount of bass that I thought I would out of them when used sans sub. I'm sure a huge part of it is expecting too much from speakers with 5" woofers after using bass-heavy setups for the past several years, including Logitech Z-680s and a 5.1 HT setup with huge Cerwin Vega 15" floorstanding speakers and a monster 15" CV subwoofer.

I'm currently using the A5s with the 15" sub because I just feel that the bass is lacking without a dedicated subwoofer. I probably wouldn't feel that way if I had been using 2.0 speakers before. But even my Klipsch 2.1s with the little (by comparison) subwoofer sound more full and balanced than the A5s alone do, so I find myself listening to the PMs more even though I love the sound of the A5s.

Alone, I feel the A5s are less enjoyable for games simply due to the lack of thunderous bass. With the 15" sub they transform into a rocking game setup, but when listening to music it's a bit hard to get a balance where the bass isn't overpowering them at low volume levels simply because the CV sub barely needs any power in order to be audible. There's always the option of buying the A8 and having a nicely matched setup, but I don't really want to end up with nearly $700 in Audioengine gear when there are so many other options for passive speaker setups.

 

[seemlessthunder]

You aren't going to be able to make bass where there is none. 5" woofers will give an acceptable level for 2.0 speakers, but 2.0 speakers will never be 2.1 speakers.

@imyourzero, you're using an overpowered sub for your setup (it's designed for full surround HT setups rather than a desk setup) and that's why you're having such trouble. See if you can use your soundcard driver to adjust the volume for just the sub, but short of that you'll need a smaller sub to balance it.

 

[Lateralus]

You aren't going to be able to make bass where there is none. 5" woofers will give an acceptable level for 2.0 speakers, but 2.0 speakers will never be 2.1 speakers.

@imyourzero, you're using an overpowered sub for your setup (it's designed for full surround HT setups rather than a desk setup) and that's why you're having such trouble. See if you can use your soundcard driver to adjust the volume for just the sub, but short of that you'll need a smaller sub to balance it.

LOL, I know that! I just don't want to buy another sub on top of everything I have already (the A5s, 2 sets of PM 2.1s, and the CV HT setup). It's only really an issue when the A5s are at very low volume levels; once I turn the knob a bit they put out more than enough volume to keep up with the sub.

Don't get me wrong, they sound excellent when used without a sub. I just like a bit of thump and while the bass from the A5s is very clean, accurate and musical, it is lacking for games IMO. The ProMedia sub doesn't output the level of bass of the Logitech subs (talking Z-2300/Z-5500/Z-680 here) but it does sound a lot better and they are a fantastic all-around system for music, games, and movies. I've never heard the Ultra 5.1s but I'm sure the same applies to them. It's a shame the amps on those have such a high failure rate.

 

[seemlessthunder]

Everything I've heard, the promedias pale in comparison to any real speakers. Like most pc speakers the sub is covering for the midrange/lower midrange in addition to having less clarity.

 

[Lateralus]

Everything I've heard, the promedias pale in comparison to any real speakers. Like most pc speakers the sub is covering for the midrange/lower midrange in addition to having less clarity.

Probably so, but I'm not comparing them to Paradigm or Energy here. Let me clarify; they sound very good for the price I paid for them and have long been hailed as some of the best sounding PC speakers you can buy. They will not stand toe to toe with 2.0 monitors costing much more.

Some people love the Klipsch sound with the horn-loaded design. Others don't care for it. I happen to like it and plan on purchasing a set of Klipsch bookshelf speakers at some point. You should listen to a set of ProMedias and give them an objective listen rather than going on what you've heard and comparing them to "real" speakers. You might be surprised at how good they sound if you can keep an open mind about it.

Oh and you're right about the mids. The Klipsch have fantastic highs and satisfying bass, but the A5s definitely outshine them in the midrange.

 

[M4573R]

I'm not able to change the speaker setup in my audio control panel, it only mirrors what is set in windows.

I'm sorry if I worded it poorly or was misunderstood. Everything thinks I'm complaining about bass, but I'm not. I'm not expected to have bass without a sub, and I like the speakers fine without it. The problem I was having is that the gun noises have no high pitched noise to them; they aren't crisp. Everything else is the came is clear, crisp, awesome. The guns sound just seem muffled. It's not a lack of bass problem at all.

The trick of setting windows and my drivers to different speaker setups sound like a good idea, but I'm not able to. I'm not sure where I tell it not to synchronize with the control panel.
Isn't this where it's supposed to be?:

Can't change speakers here:

So I have no idea why I didn't try this before, but having CMSS-3D off makes it sound a ton better. Turning it off also makes music better, it actually has more bass with it off. (thanks dderidex)
Will pulling the unsynchronized speaker setting trick fix this? (once I'm able to do it of course) I'd like to have it available for games, but right now it just makes everything worse.

 

[seemlessthunder]

I think that's a general problem with CMSS isn't very useful unless you have a full surround setup, and even then your receiver might have something better built-in depending. That's my biggest beef with Creative. Instead of providing real audio options in their drivers they just have wanky "enhancement" type settings that you enable or disable or adjust the amount of. Granted most sound cards have that, but as an example my lowly Asus Xonar DX has a 10-band eq, let's me adjust each speaker's volume individually, set the number of channels, set the number of speakers, set the bass cutoff, etc...

I honestly think that Creative cards are designed for the "mainstream" speaker setup primarily where people are using crappy free speakers that came with their comp in which case those enhancements may be useful. If you have real speakers though, they just get in the way.

 

[Impulse]

Both the control panels in your screenshots are part of Creative's software, you need to find Windows' own audio settings. You probably won't find an option to Synchronize (or not syncrhro) in Vista/Win7 but you can still set your speakers to 5.1/7.1 within Windows' own audio control panel and have them simultaneously set to 2.0/headphones within Creative's software (or Auzentech/Creative in your case), might have to set one or the other first (I forget which), but it can be done. Here, take a look at this post which has step by step screenshots and should help ya out.

 

[Mr. B]

...just out of curiosity, have you tried these speakers plugged into a source other than your PC, like a CD player?

 

[Impulse]

What would that change? His only real issues is with Source games, though I'm still having trouble understanding what exactly is wrong w/the weapon/heavy sounds, frankly it just sounds like an issue with the way the sounds were sampled by Valve tho.

 

[M4573R]

Both the control panels in your screenshots are part of Creative's software, you need to find Windows' own audio settings. You probably won't find an option to Synchronize (or not syncrhro) in Vista/Win7 but you can still set your speakers to 5.1/7.1 within Windows' own audio control panel and have them simultaneously set to 2.0/headphones within Creative's software (or Auzentech/Creative in your case), might have to set one or the other first (I forget which), but it can be done. Here, take a look at this post which has step by step screenshots and should help ya out.

I'm showing that I CANNOT change the speaker settings in the creative software and there is no option to unsynchronize them in order to allow me to do that.

Edit: It's back to sounding bad again with CMSS-3D off. I'm not sure what I did then to fix it.

 

[Impulse]

Ahh, I gotcha now... I dunno what's up then, could be an issue with Azuntech drivers. I know with the X-Fi's there's never been an actual option to un-synchronize under Vista/Win7 (like in XP) but people could still get around it.

 

[dderidex]

I'm showing that I CANNOT change the speaker settings in the creative software and there is no option to unsynchronize them in order to allow me to do that.

Right, but you've got your X-Fi set to 2.0/2.1...which is what you have, right? You DO want the X-Fi setup to mirror what you actually have, so this is okay. Just check the 'Enable X-Fi CMSS-3D' box.

Now, with that done (the X-Fi set to 2.0/2.1 WITH CMSS-3D set)...and you open up Team Fortress 2 and set the audio in THERE to "7.1" or "5.1" (try 5.1 first, see how that goes), and exit...what is the X-Fi set to? If it's still 2.0/2.1, then you are golden. 5.1 or 7.1 in TF2 with 2.0/2.1 in the X-Fi control panel (WITH CMSS-3d enabled) is the best sound you'll get out of it.

 

[Impulse]

That would work fine for TF2/Source but in other games that read the setting off Windows it'd be an issue wouldn't it? Tho I guess he's saying all his other games sound fine, so maybe Azuntech's drivers actually work better than Creative's in this regard and they've simplified some of the rigmarole (with the exception of Source games which do their own thing in software?). So confusing...

 

[dderidex]

That would work fine for TF2/Source but in other games that read the setting off Windows it'd be an issue wouldn't it? Tho I guess he's saying all his other games sound fine, so maybe Azuntech's drivers actually work better than Creative's in this regard and they've simplified some of the rigmarole (with the exception of Source games which do their own thing in software?). So confusing...

Well, *most* games anymore do NOT use the Windows settings, but actually use the DirectSound or OpenAL API to create a 3d soundfield (IE., each sound source is positioned in full 3d space - x, y, and z to the listener) and leave it up to the audio driver - or, more specifically, API using the audio driver's settings - to sort out how to present that to the use. So the Windows settings would be completely ignored (this is largely why many games don't even have an option in them to select your audio channels - it's using the API straight out and thus the soundcard drivers are making the decision.) This is fairly important to do if you want to model any kind of elevation audio effect (the whole 'above or below the listener' thing), which Valve's games can't do.

As fun and graphically impressive as Valve's games are, they ARE rather backwards in the audio department using this (long deprecated) method of presenting game audio.

 

[Shrimpanzee]

I use my A5's with an STF-2.

My sound card (Claro plus+) allows me to set a crossover frequency only if I choose 5.1 or 7.1 in the settings.

Since I only use my speakers for music, I just have it set to 5.1 because music sounds exactly the same.

Just simply plugging the sub into the RCA outs in the back of A5's is not the best idea because if you turn them up loud, the 5" woofers will distort the low frequencies. Trust me, you will be losing sound quality if you don't have a crossover frequency set.

I'll buy a reciever eventually, but this will suffice for now.

 

[M4573R]

It seems like maybe once a day my speakers will pop, what would cause that?

 

[drleospaceman]

It seems like maybe once a day my speakers will pop, what would cause that?

They go into standby mode after 10 minutes of non-use.

 

[seemlessthunder]

Just run a background program with a blank track or just with some very light background noise on loop and see if that helps. Weird for them to be set up that way though. Make sure all your connections are good.