Google Stadia

Colonel Sanders said:
Then there's playing locally on PC with a good display and proper config, where (although some games just have trash latency no matter what) you can get that down to literally like 10ms.
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The monitor used in the PC Gamer article was a MG248QR, which has exactly 10ms of input latency ;).
J3RK said:
I agree completely. However, it's actually not as bad as I thought it would be. :D Still trash, but I guess 1% less trashy than anticipated. :p
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I guess that makes me an optimist because it's exactly as bad as I was expecting :ROFLMAO:.
 
Armenius said:
I guess that makes me an optimist because it's exactly as bad as I was expecting :ROFLMAO:.
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I actually usually am, and can generally find something to like about most things (even if I dislike them overall). This one though... I hated the whole idea since the last time someone tried this. :D The only thing is, those latency numbers are VERY SLIGHTLY lower than I thought they would be. Looks like you were that much more accurate than me. :D
 
Armenius said:
The monitor used in the PC Gamer article was a MG248QR, which has exactly 10ms of input latency ;)
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Right, that's my point. Getting excellent latency is more than just the display. But if you know what you're doing you CAN get it that low. You have no fucking choice at all with Stadia.
 
how fast could older games at 640x480 be? gog'ers wanna know
 


Comments while I watch:

Well...This isn't off to a good start. Stadia won't even properly detect his internet speed so it refuses to allow him to use the 4K (upscaled) option.

Nice that the 1080p version at least runs at 60fps. Still crazy that the "4K" option runs worse than the XBX.

Yuck, that opening quality at 1080p. To be expected with video streaming, but man it is rough.

He says the settings are the same as the XBX, but the video stream smooths everything out so much that it is really hard to tell.

Pretty solid input latency for 1080p/60. I wonder how it is with 1440p/30.

Come one Google, you can control this shit. This is all running on the same hardware no matter what, If it can't handle 60fps at all times at those settings reduce settings until it can. Or run 1080 at 30fps with higher settings.

While RDR2 seems playable (mostly) on Stadia, the stream really seems to crush a lot of the detail and art style for the game. Not to mention the issues Richard ran into during his tests of the game. Still, I suppose if its the only way a person can play the game it doesn't seem like the worst option.
 
So 'splain to me:

Google uses a AMD GPU setup for their streaming servers to stream a 4k 60fps experience...?
How does that work? What GPU?

Edit: I found out it's a Radeon Pro card, still not sure how it can output 4K 60FPS tho for the stream
 
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Ranulfo said:
Read the reddit thread talking about the chromecast ultra overheating during gameplay. A poster there mentioned, according to the specs its ethernet lan port is 10/100 only ("fast ethernet" starndard).

via 3 year old Cnet review
https://www.cnet.com/products/google-chromecast-ultra/specs/

Did they ship out an updated version with Stadia? It seems like its the old 2016 hardware.
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All it is is a networked HDMI passthrough. Honestly don't know why it is overheating.
Auer said:
So 'splain to me:

Google uses a AMD GPU setup for their streaming servers to stream a 4k 60fps experience...?
How does that work? What GPU?

Edit: I found out it's a Radeon Pro card, still not sure how it can output 4K 60FPS tho for the stream
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What do you mean? If you watch or read the other reviews you'll see that very few games are "targeting" 60 FPS on the service, and most are actually running at 1080p or 1440p. RDR2 is running at 1440p and targeting 30 FPS with mostly medium settings, according to the Digital Foundry analysis.
 
Armenius said:
All it is is a networked HDMI passthrough. Honestly don't know why it is overheating.

What do you mean? If you watch or read the other reviews you'll see that very few games are "targeting" 60 FPS on the service, and most are actually running at 1080p or 1440p. RDR2 is running at 1440p and targeting 30 FPS with mostly medium settings, according to the Digital Foundry analysis.
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I should have been clearer, I was under the impression the 4K 60fps was a target here that was at least mentioned if not even advertised a bit.

https://9to5google.com/2019/11/24/stadia-4k-games-quality/
 
Auer said:
I should have been clearer, I was under the impression the 4K 60fps was a target here that was at least mentioned if not even advertised a bit.

https://9to5google.com/2019/11/24/stadia-4k-games-quality/
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I think that this is just an assumption people made because as far as I know, Google has always advertised the premiere service as "up to" 4K and 60 FPS. The issue Google has right now is they're not being transparent about the quality and performance options games have in their store.

EDIT: Just reading the article right now, and it seems there is a disconnect even between Stadia's leadership and their development team. Executives including Phil Harrison are hyping the service up to be something it's not.

For clarity, here is the Stadia website as it exists right now:

https://store.google.com/product/stadia
upload_2019-11-25_10-7-39.png


https://store.google.com/product/stadia_learn
upload_2019-11-25_10-9-51.png


upload_2019-11-25_10-11-57.png
 
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Phil Harrison seems to believe upscaled 4K is the same as real 4K.

Just be honest about it. You don't see people constantly getting out their pitchforks and torches for console games because developers are transparent about dynamic resolution usage and other upscaling tricks like tiling. Gamers generally don't take your marketing bullshit, so it's a bad idea to try to lie and/or obfuscate.
 
Yeah, I don't think anyone with half a brain would expect that kind of performance out of something like this anyway. The only people they're going to fool, are people that wouldn't notice in the first place.
 
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odditory said:
Well, the entire current console gen was marketed and sold on this lie.
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Well the Xbone X is true 4k just it doesn't have any games worth playing that ain't on PC. PS4 pro games might not have the best fps but sure as hell does look good for checker board rendering.
 
vegeta535 said:
Well the Xbone X is true 4k just it doesn't have any games worth playing that ain't on PC. PS4 pro games might not have the best fps but sure as hell does look good for checker board rendering.
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No, most games on the Xbox One X use dynamic resolution techniques that rarely reach native 4K, just like the PS4 Pro. It can often maintain higher resolutions than the PS4 Pro, though, do to the stronger GPU. There are few games that run in native 4K. Horizon 4 and Forza 7 are the only two I can think of off the top of my head.
 
Armenius said:
No, most games on the Xbox One X use dynamic resolution techniques that rarely reach native 4K, just like the PS4 Pro. It can often maintain higher resolutions than the PS4 Pro, though, do to the stronger GPU. There are few games that run in native 4K. Horizon 4 and Forza 7 are the only two I can think of off the top of my head.
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Surprisingly RDR2 runs at a native 4K on the X. I know there are some more but I don’t feel like trying to find a list while on my phone at work.
 
odditory said:
Well, the entire current console gen was marketed and sold on this lie.
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Which brings us to this point; Stadia is basically another gaming console and not a PC equivalent platform. Just like a console platform, game devs have to port their games to this specific platform and decide for us what IQ and performance settings are adequate with the given hardware Google has set for them, which seems to be set around a Vega 56 equivalent GPU that has no chance of running any modern PC games at 4k60 or even 4k30 reliably. I thought this service was going to basically allow us to lease a higher-end PC to play PC games, thus still having access to the traditional graphical options in each game. But that's definitely not the case here, as the only graphical options given are in the app to adjust the stream quality based on your internet connection speed.

So that brings up another question/issue; when/if Google decides to upgrade the hardware for everyone and to keep up with newer games, will that newer hardware benefit the current/older games already on the service? Because it doesn't seem like it will other than maybe better performance if we have to rely on devs to go back and patch games on the service to increase image quality, just like we had to do on existing Pro/X consoles when they launched (and will probably happen again half-way through next gen cycle when they launch a more powerful "8K" console or something stupid instead of focusing on 4k60).
 
Ranulfo said:
Read the reddit thread talking about the chromecast ultra overheating during gameplay. A poster there mentioned, according to the specs its ethernet lan port is 10/100 only ("fast ethernet" starndard).

via 3 year old Cnet review
https://www.cnet.com/products/google-chromecast-ultra/specs/

Did they ship out an updated version with Stadia? It seems like its the old 2016 hardware.
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Armenius

Heya tagging only to let you two know, I saw a chromecast ultra being opened up and probed near the chip, the issue is due to bad thermal choices.

1) they choose a planar glossy plastic surface to act as heatsink.
Planar + glossy = the least amount of actual effective surface possible between the "heatsink" and the air that will be cooling it through convection. It may look initially neat but it's the worst choice in material and shape VS a slightly corrugated metallic heatsink (not even talking a full on heatsink if they care about appearance which I find dumb)

2) they use multiple interfaces between the chip and the pseudo heatsink.
Ideally you want a little interfaces between your chip and the heatsink, each interface is a "better than air but worse than direct contact" deal that makes heat transfer worse.

3) at least the main chip to heat spreader is a "too thick" choice of thermal paste / pad that isn't ideal.
This is the 2nd worst sin alongside #1, there's a reason why we use small dots of thermal paste /thin graphite pads in PCs, and that's because the thicker these interfaces are the worse the thermal efficiency will be since they act as a insulator of sorts in comparison to a metal to metal transfer. Ideally we want as much metal to metal as possible and the thermal paste should only be to fill the air gaps between the surfaces.


Sticking heatsinks directly to the plastic can drop up to 6c the Temps, but the best option is to open it all up and using a heatsink in direct contact with the chip. Raspberry pi heatsinks work.





Spawn Wave tries to keep a fair view and did the tests I mentioned.
 
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T4rd said:
Which brings us to this point; Stadia is basically another gaming console and not a PC equivalent platform. Just like a console platform, game devs have to port their games to this specific platform and decide for us what IQ and performance settings are adequate with the given hardware Google has set for them, which seems to be set around a Vega 56 equivalent GPU that has no chance of running any modern PC games at 4k60 or even 4k30 reliably. I thought this service was going to basically allow us to lease a higher-end PC to play PC games, thus still having access to the traditional graphical options in each game. But that's definitely not the case here, as the only graphical options given are in the app to adjust the stream quality based on your internet connection speed.

So that brings up another question/issue; when/if Google decides to upgrade the hardware for everyone and to keep up with newer games, will that newer hardware benefit the current/older games already on the service? Because it doesn't seem like it will other than maybe better performance if we have to rely on devs to go back and patch games on the service to increase image quality, just like we had to do on existing Pro/X consoles when they launched (and will probably happen again half-way through next gen cycle when they launch a more powerful "8K" console or something stupid instead of focusing on 4k60).
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The way I read it on the slide, they claim they can do 4K and 60 fps but since there is a comma in between them that does not mean 4k60, so they can do 60fps on 1080 or whatever resolution and they can run 4k even if it is only 15 fps and not lie on the slide, now you can think whatever you want of that they are not wrong ig people interpret it incorrectly.
 
in my occasional observation, they've always been clear it's "up to" 4k 60fps, so all these claims google has betrayed us and need to be sued and crap are just hilarious...
 
Youn said:
in my occasional observation, they've always been clear it's "up to" 4k 60fps, so all these claims google has betrayed us and need to be sued and crap are just hilarious...
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I think I've seen quite a few "up to" and *** statements as well. Also, I never really thought this service would provide anything near a local PC experience anyway, and never really gave it any serious thought as something I'd want to try. I'm guessing many people here felt like that as well?

I guess if you're not a PC game player, don't have a PC, (or a console for that matter) but think you might want to play a few games, then MAYBE this COULD be a POSSIBLE solution if you're not into games that require quick reaction and low latency... Maybe slow moving RPGs? Otherwise... I think it's pretty useless.
 
Denpepe said:
The way I read it on the slide, they claim they can do 4K and 60 fps but since there is a comma in between them that does not mean 4k60, so they can do 60fps on 1080 or whatever resolution and they can run 4k even if it is only 15 fps and not lie on the slide, now you can think whatever you want of that they are not wrong ig people interpret it incorrectly.
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What absolute bullshit. Don't defend companies lying to your face with that weak garbage.
 
Even if it was 4k I wouldn't have expected to be the same thing as local 4k. It just like all the other streaming services out there and their 4k claims. Is it really 4k? Sure but it is compressed to hell and doesn't compare to true 4k. Does the majority care? More then likely not since it is good enough for most people.
 
Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing business focus

It appears Google is now going to make the platform a way for other studios to independently launch their game. They really don't get into details of what the sharing of technology looks like. I honestly don't know why you would choose Stadia over something like GeForce Now.

Focusing on Stadia's future as a platform, and winding down SG&E

I gave the service 2-3 years before it went belly up. Keeping the service running for the time being is more than I expected at this point.
 
Armenius said:
Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing business focus

It appears Google is now going to make the platform a way for other studios to independently launch their game. They really don't get into details of what the sharing of technology looks like. I honestly don't know why you would choose Stadia over something like GeForce Now.

Focusing on Stadia's future as a platform, and winding down SG&E

I gave the service 2-3 years before it went belly up. Keeping the service running for the time being is more than I expected at this point.
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Just sounds like they're going to keep doing game streaming, they're just not going to make their own first party titles. I don't trust Google with anything though: https://killedbygoogle.com/
 
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