Google: Bing Is Cheating, Copying Our Search Results

STR

Gawd
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Messages
540
Damn I should have bought some google stock.....Walmart and google will some day rule the world together.

It's not like they've stopped selling Google and Wal-Mart stock. In fact, it's 3:48 in New York right now, you still have 12 minutes before trading closes to pick some up.
 

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Microsoft is firing back at Google (again) claiming that Google is full of shi...errr....might not be telling the truth.

Google engaged in a “honeypot” attack to trick Bing. In simple terms, Google’s “experiment” was rigged to manipulate Bing search results through a type of attack also known as “click fraud.” That’s right, the same type of attack employed by spammers on the web to trick consumers and produce bogus search results. What does all this cloak and dagger click fraud prove? Nothing anyone in the industry doesn’t already know.
 

Oldie

Mean Old Administrator
Staff member
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Messages
21,874
They're committing the "click fraud" on their own service. :p

If they were doing it ON BING MS's statement might hold water. All they did was prove that MS could have only gotten the results on Bing by sifting data collected by those using the Bing toolbar while searching on Google.
 

ianken

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
1,953
They're committing the "click fraud" on their own service. :p

If they were doing it ON BING MS's statement might hold water. All they did was prove that MS could have only gotten the results on Bing by sifting data collected by those using the Bing toolbar while searching on Google.

Well the fact that GOOG stooped to a stunt like this just shows that Bing's got em nervous. And it should since ad search revenue is the only real money GOOG makes. They have no other game. They are a one trick pony. And if MSFT takes away their pony they're pwn3d.

As to copying. Did you RTFA? GOOG has done way more copying in the last two years than MSFT, that's for sure. Until Bing came along and lit a fire under GOOGs ass they were just sitting there.

Competition is sweet. More pissing contests! Yay!
 

Zarathustra[H]

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
31,548
It's not spying if the user has GIVEN PERMISSION for the data to be gathered.

But no doubt, lawsuits will spring up, but the chance they'll get any settlement is slim.


It all comes down to the unethical use of fine print and massive unreadable EULA's.

If Microsoft is going to monitor your information, that should have to be written in an easily readable bolded section, so people know what they are agreeing to.

Burying stuff you don't want users to know in a book length EULA or asking if you'll "allow Microsoft to gather data about your use on an anonymous basis in order to improve your user experience" without stating what they are doing are both IMHO highly unethical.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
25
There is copying and then there is abusing. Microsoft is abusing it. They are not simply inserting searches in. They are literally copying them by matching even the page ranking. My hunch that this is more a case of Microsoft sending the search query to Google and displaying it to their users without all the Google ads.
 

Weenis

I said WEENIS, not...
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
4,807
There is copying and then there is abusing. Microsoft is abusing it. They are not simply inserting searches in. They are literally copying them by matching even the page ranking. My hunch that this is more a case of Microsoft sending the search query to Google and displaying it to their users without all the Google ads.

Everything google has is public information.

It's not abuse its called being smart enough to copy the #1. It's not illegal nor immoral.. Do you think car companies don't do this? Do you think Google didn't jack a ton of their ideas from other companies?..

Your hunch would be false, Google would notice their increased traffic, especially coming from Microsofts servers.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
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Everything google has is public information.

It's not abuse its called being smart enough to copy the #1. It's not illegal nor immoral.. Do you think car companies don't do this? Do you think Google didn't jack a ton of their ideas from other companies?..

Your hunch would be false, Google would notice their increased traffic, especially coming from Microsofts servers.

If I wanted results from Google I'd go to Google. The idea behind Bing was that it was going to be a more human and more relevant search engine. You seem to be OK with the idea that they are copying the searches exactly.

As for increased traffic... doubt it. Bing is very tiny comparatively. Not to mention the searches they would be sending are much like the one Google caught them on. Ones Bing can't find.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
25
As a reminder folks:

The way search results are presented could possibly be patented. It's a method. If Bing is copying Google exactly (which they are on some results) they could be violating. The only question is how it is done.
 

oRdchaos

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
70
Is this specific to Google? Can I install the bing toolbar, make my own fake search engine on a personal website, and convince Bing to give the same sort of results?

I don't have a problem if this is done generically like that. Heck, you could even then decide to weight those search form/link results based on traffic of the original website.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
25
Why not use a site like Dogpile then? It'd be much easier. All Dogpile does is act as a search aggregator.
 

MRAB54

Gawd
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Messages
849
As to copying. Did you RTFA? GOOG has done way more copying in the last two years than MSFT, that's for sure. Until Bing came along and lit a fire under GOOGs ass they were just sitting there.

Competition is sweet. More pissing contests! Yay!

Google sure has done a lot of copying across the board. One example that actually made me switch browsers, they stole the thumbnails on a new tab in Chrome from Opera. I loved Opera but when 10% of sites display like crap...

The copying of Bing's image search was a biggie. Competition is sweet but Google has the resources to quickly implement any useful, new idea any of its competitors come up with, which they have. Then they go call out MSFT for "copying"...
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
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Google had image search before Bing. Yahoo had it before Google and Webcrawler was the first to have it if I remember right.
 

cdolphin

n00b
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
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Definitely one of the funniest supposedly accurate and or substantiated online reports I have ever seen. Using the same browser? Of course it would pay off to use browser history in your search results, you would be silly not to.

/thread
 

Gloves

n00b
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
18
???? You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Who even said a single thing about Apple, let alone anything fanboyish? Everything I said is basically common knowledge for anyone who has used both searches....

lol, alright, I guess i don't have an idea of what i'm talking about, and i'm sure you do.

(obviously you don't get symbolism. your ignorance is amazing)

cheers
 

MRAB54

Gawd
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
849
Google had image search before Bing. Yahoo had it before Google and Webcrawler was the first to have it if I remember right.

Yes, Google had image search before Bing, but Bing came out with a much improved version of it. When everybody cheered over Bing's image search, Google basically copied Bing's image search features in about a month or so.
 

MRAB54

Gawd
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Sep 9, 2001
Messages
849
I can't figure out how to edit my above post...

Bing sucks, they only win with their travel (flexible search) gadget on their site.

Other than that, google owns it hard in every which way, besides looking pretty. This is one of those things where function is definitely better than form.

Yeah, well... That's just like, your opinion man. Bing does bring a few new things to the table which IMO are improvements. If that wasn't the case, why would Google feel threatened?
 

PornoSatan

2[H]4U
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I actually like MS, but I think what they're doing right now isn't very proper. Instead of improving their own search algorithms to be more accurate, they're piggy backing on Googles refined search algorithms and copying the displayed results of user searches and what they click to output on Bing. Competition is competition, but the angle they're doing it doesn't rub the right way. They're not creating anything new or exciting, or improving on an existing concept, they're copying (literally copying) what Google is best at and trying to defeat it from other angles. It was pretty clever of the Google engineers though for how they discovered it.
 

trooper11

Limp Gawd
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Feb 19, 2004
Messages
350
I actually like MS, but I think what they're doing right now isn't very proper. Instead of improving their own search algorithms to be more accurate, they're piggy backing on Googles refined search algorithms and copying the displayed results of user searches and what they click to output on Bing. Competition is competition, but the angle they're doing it doesn't rub the right way. They're not creating anything new or exciting, or improving on an existing concept, they're copying (literally copying) what Google is best at and trying to defeat it from other angles. It was pretty clever of the Google engineers though for how they discovered it.


so do we know that this is all MS does with Bing? I mean some of you are making it sound like MS doesnt have its own search system or anything, its all just lifted results from Google....

What it looks like to me is that on top of building and improving thier own system/features, they are making use of users browsing habits via the bing toolbar, etc. It doesnt sound like its directly targeting Google either. Its a universal stat collector, so its going to track usage whether your on google, yahoo, etc etc. If its a webpage, it can track you. That certainly isnt unique considering Google does something similar with the Chrome browser and google toolbar, etc. Tracking user behavior is essential to all the search engines that make money on advertisments.

I dont really have a problem with that as long as its not something that is 'cracking' Google's system or accessing data they shouldnt have access to. Simply tracking usage at a high level doesnt seem so wrong, it just seems like they are keeping an eye on the competition. Seems to me that happens in all markets between competitors.
 

riot8ap

Supreme [H]ardness
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Feb 17, 2003
Messages
5,509
I can't figure out how to edit my above post...



Yeah, well... That's just like, your opinion man. Bing does bring a few new things to the table which IMO are improvements. If that wasn't the case, why would Google feel threatened?

You wouldn't if another company was stealing your hard work?
 

trooper11

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
350
You wouldn't if another company was stealing your hard work?

but what are they stealing? they arent stealing the actual search system, only tracking results. those results are public knowledge, not something you have to break in and take. It may help them see usage trends, but i dont see how it helps them build a search system, they still had to do that themselves.

So yeah, maybe its not 'nice' i guess, but it doesnt seem like that big of a deal. I already assumed MS, Google, etc were collecting such data to improve thier search systems.
 
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