Good machine for Photography/Image processing

[expat]

I would like to build a machine to use for my photography hobby. What can you come up with for say a thousand dollars including a nice monitor and 4 gig of nice ram? I assume a basic graphics card will do as I will do no gaming. I think a 500 gig hard drive should be a good start.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Dangman]

I recommend that you look through the hundreds of threads that people have posted with your same requirements, get a feel for what is the most recommended hardware, come up with a list and just post that list right back here in this thread. You'll get a much better understanding of PCs if you do some research on it. Here's a quick GenHard search for Photoshop rigs:
http://hardforum.com/search.php?searchid=8260116

 

[expat]

Thanks for the reply--and I do appreciate it. The search you gave me comes up empty for me "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms." I did a search of my own before posting and waded many posts looking for an hour or so, but found only a few that were similar to my needs and those were months old.

My search skills need a rebuild too, I suspect. I've basically settled on a quad core Q6600 because that seems to be the sweet spot right now, but I would like a recommendation on a nice stable motherboard, ram, case, power supply, and video card. I have no intention of overclocking--I just want a good stable system.

I've read so many posts now about people tweaking their systems for optimum performance and getting the extra juice out of their ram, I was hoping there might be someone who had gone through a similar search for a stable non-overclocked system that might save me some time.

(An example of a thread I found:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1216089
Unfortunately it's from August.)

 

[engiNURD]

Please answer the following questions with as much detail/specifics as possible, as it will help us help you:

1) What's your budget and what is included in that budget (tax/shipping, keyboard, monitor, OS, etc; if you're not in the US, please specify country)?

2) What will you be doing with this system besides gaming (eg: video editing, photochopping, media ripping/encoding, watching hd videos, CAD, etc)?

3) If you are gaming, what games will you be playing and at what resolution/settings (eg: cs:s @ 1680x1050 w/ no AA/AF)?

4) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to get?

5) What old parts do you plan on re-using, if any?

6) What features do you need/want in a motherboard and briefly, why do you need/want them? (3 pci slots, raid, firewire, µATX, etc)

7) How long do you plan on keeping this system and/or how often do you upgrade?

8) Do you plan on OC'ing?

9) If you haven't already, please look through the other build lists in GenHard and come up with a rough draft list of parts that we can nitpick.

 

[expat]

1. $1000 (less is ok!) complete system including a nice monitor, shipping, etc. in the US
2. Besides Photoshop and image processing, just surfing the net, watching videos, word processing and the like. No video editing or gaming.
3. No Gaming
4. A nice new ~24 inch monitor would be great
5. Not intending to use any old parts
6. From the Motherboard I want at least 4 sata ports, an eSata would be nice, firewire would be nice but could be optional.
7. I have had my current system 3 years, so looking at a similar upgrade timeframe.
8. No overclocking.
9.

Q6600 CPU
Motherboard I'm lost! A nice P35 board? How's this one I found by floundering about newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128064
Two seagate 500 gig drives (price sweet spot?)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288
Video card--some nice budget card like about $50 worth? Random pick:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125072
RAM--4 gigs of nice but well priced ram compatible with above motherboard
2 X http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146565
Power Supply and Case--just something that will work, is easy to get around in. I have no clue about this one.
Monitor: again I just picked a best seller:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096


I guess what I'm saying it what is the sweet spot for most things . The problem I'm having when I look around the board is it seems most people are interested in overclocking, which I am not. I'm having to wade through many, many posts talking about overclocking potential and pushing their systems, when I just want a workhorse system that is efficient.

Thanks again for your help so far.

 

[engiNURD]

The DS4 you chose is great, but geared more towards people who need the extra PCI-E 4.16x slot, nice heatpipe cooling for the chipset/mosfets (for OC'ing), and better power regulation for the CPU (again, for overclocking). The Abit IP35 vanilla is a nice board that fits your needs. If you don't really need firewire and would like more SATA ports, the DS3R is another alternative.

$120 - abit IP35 LGA 775 Intel P35 ($25 MIR)
$130 - Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35

Since you want eSATA, pickup one of these if you go with the aBit (the gigabyte comes with one of these already):
$5 - Rosewill RC-202 Internal SATA to eSATA II External 2Port Host Bracket Cable 11"

If you'll be watching any HD video content, I'd suggest at least the 2600XT or 8500GT. They help take the load off of the CPU so you can multi-task while watching. If you won't be watching any HD video content, then all you need is any $25 vidcard.

$28 - MSI RX1550-TD128EH Radeon X1550 128MB ($10 MIR)
$69 - eVGA 256-P2-N741-LR GeForce 8500GT 256MB HDCP Ready ($20 MIR)
$70 - Powercolor 26XT 256M/D3 HDMI Radeon HD 2600XT 256MB HDCP Ready

You don't need highly overclockable, low latency Ballistix ram for your setup. You won't notice the difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, its negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency. Also, to lessen your chances of problems with 4GB, go with a 2x2GB config. If you want to stay with 4x1GB, make sure the sticks are low voltage (<2.0v).

$84 - A-DATA 4GB(2x2GB) DDR2-800 ADQVE1B16K 1.8v

All you really need for your PSU is the Corsair 450W. If you want more headroom for growth, pickup the Corsair 520W or 550W instead. Don't get them from newegg, though, since they're overpriced there. Go with zipzoomfly, buy.com, or clubit.com instead. If you want to stick with newegg, check out the XClio Goodpower 500W, Stablepower 460W, Enhance 5150GH, any Antec Earthwatts (380W, 430W, 500W), or Silverstone ST50EF-PLUS instead.

Danny has a nice list of cases you could go through. Cases are 90% personal preference, and the other 10% is good airflow and build quality. All the cases he lists fulfill the 10%, so its up to you to choose which one you like best. My vote is for the RC-690.

Lastly, get the Q6600 G0 from clubit.com, since they guarantee the G0 stepping. The G0 stepping requires less voltage and therefore runs cooler -- which is a good thing regardless if you're OC'ing or not. You could also pickup the Corsair 450W from them, too, while you're at it.

 

[Urraca]

macbook

edit: Err I mean iMac. Slightly above your price range starting at ~1200, but comes with a beautiful monitor and sleek design, all my photographer friends live by them. Plus leopard is really neat.

If I didn't game/OC I'd be buying one.

But having said that, I'd stay away from 4gb of ram, it's not needed and you will need a 64bit operating system to take advantage of that. Also, I don't see you staying at 1000 bucks if you truly want a 24" monitor. Bottom of the line (but still very solid and amazing) is like $400, and you can't skimp on the monitor if it's for photography.

 

[Dangman]

Since Enginurd mentioned it, here is my list recommended cases:
Cooler Master Elite 330 RC-330-KKN1-GP ATX Case - $25
Cooler Master Centurion 534 ATX Case - $40
Cooler Master Centurion 532 ATX Case - $50
Cooler Master RC-690-KKN1-GP ATX Case - $60
Antec NSK4480 ATX Case With Antec Earthwatts 380W PSU - $68
Cooler Master Mystique RC-632S-KKN1-GP ATX Case - $70
Lian Li PC-7B Plus II Silver ATX Case - $90
XClio Windtunnel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - $110
Antec Sonata III ATX Case with Antec Earthwatts 500W PSU - $100
Antec P180B ATX Case - $109
Gigabyte Aurora GZ-FSCA1-ATB ATX Case - $110
Antec P182 ATX Case - $105
Antec P180 ATX Case - $120
Thermaltake Armor VA8000BWS Full Tower ATX Case - $130
Lian Li PC-A16A ATX Case - $150
Thermaltake Armor VA8003BWS Full Tower ATX Case - $150
Coolermaster Cosmos 1000 RC-1000-KSN1-GP Full Tower ATX Case - $150
Cooler Master Stacker RC-830-SSN2-GP Full Tower ATX Case - $150
Cooler Master Stacker RC-832-KKN1-GP Full Tower ATX Case - $150
Lian-Li V1000A Plus II ATX Case - $180
Lian Li PC-V1200 ATX Case (Silver) - $210
Lian Li PC-V1200 ATX Case (Black) - $214
Lian-Li PC-V1100A PLUS II ATX Case - $220
Lian Li PC-V1200B Plus II ATX Case - $240

Urraca is right, you will need a 64bit OS like Vista 64Bit in order to use all 4GB of RAM. However, I disagree with the notion that 4GB of RAM is not needed. Photoshop is pretty damn RAM hungry and the more you have, the better Photoshop will behave. Even if the OP doesn't go with a 64bit OS, he can at least use 3.2GB out of the available 4GB. And every bit of RAM counts with Photoshop.

Anyway, expat, did you also need a new copy of an OS? Also, Urraca is right, fitting a 24" monitor into a $1000 isn't a good idea. Any way you can up your budget? Or drop down to a smaller monitor like 19" or 22"?

 

[expat]

Urraca is right, you will need a 64bit OS like Vista 64Bit in order to use all 4GB of RAM. However, I disagree with the notion that 4GB of RAM is not needed. Photoshop is pretty damn RAM hungry and the more you have, the better Photoshop will behave. Even if the OP doesn't go with a 64bit OS, he can at least use 3.2GB out of the available 4GB. And every bit of RAM counts with Photoshop.

Anyway, expat, did you also need a new copy of an OS? Also, Urraca is right, fitting a 24" monitor into a $1000 isn't a good idea. Any way you can up your budget? Or drop down to a smaller monitor like 19" or 22"?

Actually, I'm doing this build for a friend who wants to buy a standard Dell build, which goes against all that is right in the world by my standards, and he just told me he wants to keep his current monitor, so life is good. He also mentioned that he has some old home movies and that at some point he may want to edit them. That shouldn't change things much as he's not looking for a professional editing machine (I used to edit movies on my old pentium 4 at 1.3 GHz). He also mention watching HD movies--I think the cards mentioned above will handle that.

If I can convince him to go this route, I'm guessing he'll stay with XP for a while, at least until Service Pack 1 comes out for vista, more likely until SP2.

He asked what the limitations of a Dell machine would be. I mentioned that they scrimp wherever they can--power supply, drive bays, motherboard, stuff like that. Do you guys have a better answer for him? I also mentioned that you get more bang for the buck doing your own build and that you can have the seller assemble and test the machine for you. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above so I don't steer him wrong, or elaborate if I'm actually missing reasons why he shouldn't go with the Dell.

I'm already thinking of upgrading myself going through this process! (I have similar needs for a machine, but mine's a bit newer than his due to past help on this forum.)You guys are great.

 

[TurboDean]

Hi, folks. I'm the friend expat is helping. Thanks for the information and recommendations so far. One other thing I'm trying to achieve is a more quiet machine. Danny, of those cases you noted which would fit into that category? Here's how it is shaping up so far:

Case: Undecided &#8211; something ~$100 or less

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R (or DS3L?) LGA 775 Intel P35 - $128 http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A4830711 This was selected for growth space and Vista Compliance, even though I will be running XP 32 for now.

CPU: Intel Q6600 - $278 http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=CA1938452 This was selected also for growth space (Vista or XP64, as well as Photoshop CS)

RAM: Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 - $80 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220227 Seemed a good value for well regarded product.

Power Supply: SeaSonic SS-500ES 500W - $70 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151040 I had read here that it was good as well as quiet.

HDs: 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB 7200rpm 32MB Cache - $238 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288 Was cheaper than a single 1TB HD, and from what I gather, better to do. (run all my photo processing on one, everything else on the other? Not exactly sure how to do that, though.) Photography is a hobby, not a business, and currently I shoot mostly JPEG that are ~3-4mb files, though I'm starting to shoot RAW which is ~15mb files. Files kept were ~1MB in 2006, ~2MB in 2007. I can only guess that '08 will be ~4-6GB and it might grow to 10GB annually as I shoot more. As I outgrow this machine, it will be time to upgrade anyhow, and by then 1TB will be a hundred bucks.

CD/DVD drive/writer: LG GSA-H55NK - $28 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136117&Tpk=N82E16827136117 Seemed fine.

Graphics Card: UNKNOWN! Please help!! For $65 the EVGA GeForce 8500GT 512MB 128bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 HDCP & SLI Ready card (http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A9602846) looked good, but then I saw a couple folks complaining of the noise. Mighta been overkill anyhow.

Monitor I already have: Dell 20" 2007WFP running at 1680x1050. I do not intend to go to 24" any time soon. It would be years.

OS: I have XP Home from my '04 machine that I'll reuse and get it updated once up and running. Then I'll load all the other software.



So, am I missing anything? Anything at all?? As in, if this is all I order, will I have a running machine? 'Tis my first time, so I'm nervous.

As expat noted, this is mainly for photo processing (Adobe Elements 5 for now, though a change to Photoshop CS may be in the future) our general productivity use (word processing, spreadsheets, browsing, music ripping and burning). I don't intend to watch vids on it or game, but I will need to do video editing at some point with all the home movies of the kids, before the tapes disintegrate. ~$1000 w/o monitor is still the target maximum, but I can be flexible, particularly if a little more here and there will make a notable difference, or will provide notably more headroom.

My current comp, a Dell Dimension 2400 lasted ~3.5 years, and it was deemed useless for upgrading. Expat and a few others convinced me that a custom build could perform better for roughly the same money and provide for more reasonable expansion later, so I'm going to give this a go. I've been told It should be easier than building a short block, so hopefully it will be.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Actually, I'm doing this build for a friend who wants to buy a standard Dell build, which goes against all that is right in the world by my standards,

Why, nothing wrong with dell builds... are you going to be the one who will be availible 24/7 if something goes wrong, his system crashes, are you going to RMA the hardware if something dies?

Dell systems are perfectkly fine and often cheaper then what you can build with deals and freebies thrown in.

 

[engiNURD]

FYI, Dells are quiet and not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. They're fine for your intended uses, actually. No, they're not very upgradable, but if you typically buy a whole new system every 3-5 years, then theres no need for them to be. There's always new tech out, and in 3 yrs, it will be time for a new motherboard/cpu/ram anyhow. As far as quiet goes, we use all dells at work, and they're all silent. Dell's are fine for the avg user. If you don't mind getting into the details of the hardware, learning about every aspect of your PC, dealing with possible issues and troubleshooting things on y our own, then build it yourself -- its a nice accomplishment. If you don't care about PC hardware, and just want it to work right out of the box, get a pre-built -- they're usually cheaper if you shop around (www.gotapex.com).

If you still choose to build... more power to you. We're here to help, so just ask if you need any.

If you only need 4 SATA ports, then the DS3L is fine. If you want more, the IP35 has 6, and the DS3R has 8. I linked both of them in my post above.

Also, read my post above for the graphics card recommendation.

The quietest case on Danny's list is the P180/P182, and it can usually be found for around $80AR.

 

[MrGuvernment]

macbook

edit: Err I mean iMac. Slightly above your price range starting at ~1200, but comes with a beautiful monitor and sleek design, all my photographer friends live by them. Plus leopard is really neat.

If I didn't game/OC I'd be buying one.

But having said that, I'd stay away from 4gb of ram, it's not needed and you will need a 64bit operating system to take advantage of that. Also, I don't see you staying at 1000 bucks if you truly want a 24" monitor. Bottom of the line (but still very solid and amazing) is like $400, and you can't skimp on the monitor if it's for photography.

stay away from 4G of ram, and you have photography friends, what do they doo, take 2.1mp pictures?


most people buy ah Imac because they are brain washed to think it is better for graphics works, which is BS< the only reason to get MAC is the OS, period.


if your friend is doing serious photogrpahy work with large files more ram the better, period, simple as that, trust me, i know working with multiple 40Mb tiff files converted from RAW off my 20D 2G gets used up dam fast!

 

[MrGuvernment]

He asked what the limitations of a Dell machine would be. I mentioned that they scrimp wherever they can--power supply, drive bays, motherboard, stuff like that. Do you guys have a better answer for him? I also mentioned that you get more bang for the buck doing your own build and that you can have the seller assemble and test the machine for you. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above so I don't steer him wrong, or elaborate if I'm actually missing reasons why he shouldn't go with the Dell.

I'm already thinking of upgrading myself going through this process! (I have similar needs for a machine, but mine's a bit newer than his due to past help on this forum.)You guys are great.

Dell is using Foxconn for mobo's who makes most makers mobo's out there anyways, dell doesnt so much skimp, they build to order, if you get a low end cpu and 1 harddrive with some limp gfs card, they dont put in a 600W psu, they put in a 350W which is fairly efficient for the system it was ordered for, and only give like 2 drive bays they dont give alot of room more so for expansion.


you can upgrade

CPU
RAM
harddrive
Video card

The CPU can iffy based on what chipset they use,like most mobo's, dell isnt the horror story many think it is if you have a very specific need.

 

[TurboDean]

Thanks for the response.

If you don't mind getting into the details of the hardware, learning about every aspect of your PC, dealing with possible issues and troubleshooting things on your own, then build it yourself -- its a nice accomplishment. (www.gotapex.com)..

That's kinda where I'm at... I would like to learn. I have been doing more with the electronic engine management systems and components on my hot rod, and I'm getting more intrigued. I like being able to do things myself, and this is one aspect of my daily life that I haven't had a grasp on. It's time to know.

The DS3R is what's intended. I hadn't confirmed it was Vista Compliant when I was posting a bit ago, but have since done so. I have looked at the graphics cards you listed, except the Powercolor, for which the link didn't work entirely. The EVGA was the one where I read a complaint of the fan being loud, which made me recall my prior Dell, which was quite noisy.

Any other cases on Danny's list to consider? I like having at least one option (though the recommendations here weight heavier than my opinions).

...trust me, i know working with multiple 40Mb tiff files converted from RAW off my 20D 2G gets used up dam fast!

WOW! 40meg? I haven't converted any yet (actually, haven't shot RAW yet), but I'll be starting to now that I have a camera with a bit more buffer. I got a 40D for myself last week, retiring the XT.

One of the issues I had with updating my existing dell was the 1GB RAM limitation, which meant a motherboard upgrade was necessary, and the 40G HD is filling up (13GB free). In my case I would basically be gutting the case, and space is at a premium there, which is why it is being replaced. Being just 3 years old (I know, OLD in technology terms), I was still al ittle ticked, but at the time of original purchase we had few choices. We ticked the most reasonable boxes at the time, but didn't know better. now I want to know better.

 

[Dangman]

The NSK4480 that I recommended is also a fairly quiet case, I think. Not too sure. Though I do recommend going with the P180/P182 since it is one of the more popular cases at the Silent PC Review forums:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=14&topicdays=0&start=0

Updated links for the P180/P182:
Antec P180 ATX Case - $106
Antec P180B ATX Case - $109
Antec P182 ATX Case - $109

Also, I recommend going with this passive MSI 8500GT video card to cut down on noise:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127297

 

[alexlyc]

Just forget about Windows, get yourself 8GB ram and install mac os x leopard, pretty much all the hardwares listed here are supported anyway

 

[ilikecake]

I second the recommendation for the P180. I have one, and it is really quiet. Just so you know: it also weighs about 8 billion pounds.

 

[engiNURD]

Technology moves so fast these days, but the good thing is that parts are getting cheaper and cheaper. So, almost an entirely new system every 3-5yrs is actually affordable now. Small upgrades throughout the years are also easy and affordable, especially with HDDs, optical drives, vidcards, RAM, etc. I find it more worthwhile to spend $800 every 2-3 yrs than to spend $1600 every 4-6yrs -- and this comes from experience. Though, I have a nice hand-me-down chain as an excuse... others just sell their old parts for as much as they can.

I like Antec cases because the silicon grommets for the HDDs help quiet them down. Also, make sure the case uses 120mm fans, which are quieter than 80mm fans and push more air.

 

[TurboDean]

OK, the case will be an Antec! I figure for ~the same price, I'll take the 182.

Danny, thanks a lot for that silentpcreview.com link. Very informative. I read about PSUs there and decided to change the one I have listed above for a quieter, more efficient one with a 120mm fan. So here's where I'm at:

Case: Antec P182 (~$135 shipped)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX (~$135 shipped)
CPU: Intel Q6600 (~$278 shipped)
RAM: Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 (~$85 shipped after MIR)
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-520H (~$105 shipped after $20 MIR)
HDs: 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB 7200rpm 32MB Cache (~$240 shipped)
CD/DVD drive/writer: LG GSA-H55NK (~$34 shipped)
Graphics Card:MSI NX8500GT-TD256EH GeForce 8500GT 256MB 128-bit (~$58 shipped)

On the RAM, I have two questions:
1) For $25 more there is similar RAM with a better CAS rating (4-4-4-12 vs 5-5-5-12) available, but is it a worthwhile investment?
2) Is the 1066 worthwhile for me? The FSB on the CPU is 1066 and the Motherboard spec's show 533/800/1066/1333, whereas I have listed 800MHz RAM. I looked for 1066MHz 2gb RAM sticks but there isn't much selection, and it seems most folks don't use 1066 RAM anyhow with the 1066 FSB systems. Stick with 800?

Thanks,

Dean

 

[silent-circuit]

Intel quotes FSB as "quad pumped" so the 1066 number is deceptive. It's actually 1066/4, or 266.

DDR2 is rated at 2x FSB, so at 266 true FSB you're running 533Mhz DDR2 with a 1:1 divider. You can run a different divider that'll run the RAM nearer to its rated 800Mhz, but there is really no reason to get 1066Mhz rated DDR2 with a Q6600, as even OCed the DDR2-800 is normally enough (there is little to no performance increase running RAM faster than 1:1 with FSB on Intel platforms) and you don't plan to OC at all. Stick with DDR2-800.

CAS 4/5 really won't matter. Spend the $25 if you like, but I personally wouldn't worry about it.

 

[engiNURD]

1) No, not at all.
2) No, s-c explained it above, but I'll paste this table that I post everywhere anyways:

/*------------- <cut n paste> -------------*/

Formulas for Intel platform @ 1:1 settings: (base FSB speed is SDR, or single data rate)
c x [Base FSB speed] = CPU speed (c = CPU Multiplier)
2 x [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed (DDR: double data rate)
4 x [Base FSB speed] = FSB speed (QDR: quad data rate; Effective FSB speed)

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is, for the most part, useless, so don't bother trying to do so. If the BIOS does it for you, just let it. All you need is a 1:1 config, though. Here's some possible clock speeds (as always with OC'ing, your results will vary):

Q6600: 9 × 266 = 2.4Ghz, DDR2-533 << STOCK speeds
Q6600: 9 × 333 = 3.0Ghz, DDR2-667 << Nice OC
Q6600: 9 × 378 = 3.4Ghz, DDR2-756 << Good OC, near max for B3 stepping
Q6600: 9 × 400 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-800 << Great OC, near max for G0 stepping

You won't notice the difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, its negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.

/*------------- </cut n paste> -------------*/

 

[TurboDean]

OK, gotcha on the RAM (deceptive to idgits like me indeed!), but this creates two more questions:

1) enginurd, on the "possible clock speeds" you listed, what does the "9" represent? (ex: 9 × 266 = 2.4Ghz)

2) Considering I don't yet have software that would take advantage of the Quad Core (at least, that's what I understand at the moment... I was building for the future), should I be looking at Duo Core CPUs instead? The E6850?

TIA

 

[engiNURD]

1) enginurd, on the "possible clock speeds" you listed, what does the "9" represent? (ex: 9 × 266 = 2.4Ghz)

c x [Base FSB speed] = CPU speed (c = CPU Multiplier)
2 x [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed (DDR: double data rate)
4 x [Base FSB speed] = FSB speed (QDR: quad data rate; Effective FSB speed)

The max CPU multiplier is different for each chip. Core2Extreme chips have an unlocked multiplier. Regular desktop variants can lower their multiplier due to EIST. Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology lowers the CPU multiplier and CPU voltage when the system doesnt need the full power of the CPU. Once it does need it, it switches it back to the max CPU multiplier. Typically, EIST drops the multiplier to 6x.

Here are the different CPU multipliers...
E6320: 7 × 266 = 1.8Ghz, DDR2-533
E6550: 7 × 333 = 2.3Ghz, DDR2-667
E2140: 8 × 200 = 1.6Ghz, DDR2-400
E6420: 8 × 266 = 2.1Ghz, DDR2-533
E6750: 8 × 333 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-667
E2160: 9 × 200 = 1.8Ghz, DDR2-400
E4300: 9 × 200 = 1.8Ghz, DDR2-400
E6600: 9 × 266 = 2.4Ghz, DDR2-533
Q6600: 9 × 266 = 2.4Ghz, DDR2-533
E6850: 9 × 333 = 3.0Ghz, DDR2-667
E2180: 10 × 200 = 2.0Ghz, DDR2-400
E4400: 10 × 200 = 2.0Ghz, DDR2-400
E6700: 10 × 266 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-533
Q6700: 10 × 266 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-533
E2200: 11 × 200 = 2.2Ghz, DDR2-400
E4500: 11 × 200 = 2.2Ghz, DDR2-400

E2xx0 series has 1MB L2 cache and 800Mhz FSB QDR; EIST.
E4x00 series has 2MB L2 cache and 800Mhz FSB QDR; EIST.
E6x00 series has 4MB L2 cache and 1066Mhz FSB QDR; EIST and VT. (E6300 and E6400 have 2MB L2 Cache; They were replaced with E6320 and E6420, both with 4MB L2 Cache).
Q6x00 series has 4MB L2 cache and 1066Mhz FSB QDR; EIST and VT.
E6x50 series has 4MB L2 cache and 1333Mhz FSB QDR; EIST and VT.

2) Considering I don't yet have software that would take advantage of the Quad Core (at least, that's what I understand at the moment... I was building for the future), should I be looking at Duo Core CPUs instead? The E6850?

If you want a dual core instead, then don't waste your money on the E6850. Its $85 more than the E6750 but only 333Mhz faster -- definately not worth the price premium, IMO.

You can certainly get a dual core if you think you won't need the quadcore. This will help you determine whether or not the quadcore is for you...
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=872&model2=871&chart=418

If you don't plan on upgrading the CPU/system for another 3-5yrs, I'd stick with the quadcore.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Just forget about Windows, get yourself 8GB ram and install mac os x leopard, pretty much all the hardwares listed here are supported anyway

true, with the new ways of installing it (which i got to try now that i am back home), but still, if they like windows go windows... why go into a completly new OS to learn it


for me if windows works for you, there is no reason to go OS X, period, you can do it al on windows or osx.

 

[TurboDean]

Thanks for the explanations and link.

Vs. the Q6600, it appears the E6750 is up to 10% faster, with the E6850 another ~5% faster again at those testing standards with programs that apply to me. That doesn't mean that I would realize that kind of time saving for all my usage though. For instance, I don't typically work with 63MB TIFF files in PS3, though PS3 is a system intense program on its own.

Tough to know what to do, but I'm leaning towards the E6750 @ ~$190 for the moment, with the intent of changing the CPU in a couple years. I could reuse the E6750 on another computer we have here, that would also need an upgrade in a couple years.

 

[vsrdan]

He asked what the limitations of a Dell machine would be. I mentioned that they scrimp wherever they can--power supply, drive bays, motherboard, stuff like that. Do you guys have a better answer for him?

Dell is simply bad and VERY unreliable. Customer service sucks. Ask him to search internet. He'll find more reasons.

I also mentioned that you get more bang for the buck doing your own build and that you can have the seller assemble and test the machine for you. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above so I don't steer him wrong, or elaborate if I'm actually missing reasons why he shouldn't go with the Dell.

This is not necessarily true. Buying a Dell may be cheaper (mid range and lower systems) than building yourself.

I would go for a mid-range card, such as this one, for photogrphy work. For photography you MUST have a decent monitor (do not go for a "budget" model) and a graphics card.

 

[MrGuvernment]

I will, my thoughts on dell is, either you get a perfect working system or you get one with lots of problems, there seems to be no middle area with dell great or awful.

if you buy an XPS their customer service is all north american, or if you have a buisness account with them

luckily for me i havent had to deal with their supoprt except once to replace a dvd-rom that wasnt working and it was replaced next day, other then that all of our dells have worked great since we got them, an Inspiron desktop 8250 just recently is having issues with the IDE controller, but the syetem was bought about 5 years ago.


An Opengl card wont affect your photos that much, i know Photoshop (and maybe others?) are starting to use the GUI to help render the interface and such to make it more responsive, but it is not neccesary to get a $250 open GL card, i use photoshop alot on my macbook with integrated intel and also on my 7600Gt desktop (tonight to move to an 8800 GT, maybe i could try some test with PS if anyone knows any to see if vid card affect PS?),performance is the same because i have 2G of ram,not alot but a nice spot for PS with it using %70 of my ram when i work (can set it to what you want to use) and i have on my desktop my scratch disk on one drive and swap file for windows on a seperate 3rd drive (all 7200.10 drives)

i usually open about mmm, maybe max 20 or so raw files, work with, post process, then save as TIFF, then go and work on some more, it can get slow saving or when using many filters, but taking my cpu a little further (only an e4400 @ 3.1) and getting more then 2G and a raid 0 working drive would help, but again, things that are not needed)

Not sure if this was answered, but how serious is this machine, are we talking "professional" level work, or work they will get paid for, or more personal usage.


My advice, just from experience with PS alot in the last 3 years, my order of importance would be

CPU (helps alot for post processing / filter work)
Harddrive - nice to have items open and save fast
Ram - helps a dam lot with just working with items in real time


if i didnt do alot of post processing, i would go more for

RAM first
harddrive subsystem 2nd (raid 0 working / raid 1 or 5 to save work on if important or raptor or scsi what ever floats your boat)
0
CPU last


P.S just some advice with your pics - NEVER work on your original pics, i dont know how many people open an original work on it and save over it, i always make copies, i order by date so say i took pics today i would have it on my HD as

2008.01.06
------- RAW
--------JPEG
--------Edited

i move pics i want to work folder i converted from RAW, 20D can take RAW + jpeg at the same time.

since i always have the raw i open jpegs with no worry caus ei have the raw files.


many people dont use raw and JPEG is sufficient for them quality wise, i ust like the post processing of RAW files a pure untouched file that ignores what ever settings your camera had on it and it is uncompressed.

 

[TurboDean]

Second guessing again...

Gigabyte DS3R vs. Gigabyte DS3L vs. ABIT IP35 Pro.

Seems folk on the newegg.com reviews have had more issues with the DS3R than the DS3L, but the DS3R has more appealing features (particularly the RAID capability and 4 more SATA ports). The IP35 has RAID capability and falls right in the middle of SATA port quantity, 6.

Maybe I just need to pick one and run with it, same with the CPU. I don't think any are bad options, though one might be a bit better. No choice is useless, though.

 

[engiNURD]

Dell is simply bad and VERY unreliable. Customer service sucks. Ask him to search internet. He'll find more reasons.

Do you own a Dell? What's so bad and unreliable about it? Aside from Customer Service, their systems just plain work. They're built to order and are very reliable compared to some other prebuilts (gateway/emachines/etc), IMO. We use all Dells at work and they all work fine.

I would go for a mid-range card, such as this one, for photogrphy work. For photography you MUST have a decent monitor (do not go for a "budget" model) and a graphics card.

No need for a FireGL card for photo editing. FireGL cards are professional OpenGL cards, and PS CS3 doesn't need openGL. The vidcard, for the most part, isn't important in photo editing, just the monitor and color calibration -- if you're doing any professional work. If you're just doing home photos, then you most likely won't need to worry too much about color calibration.

 

[TurboDean]

Not sure if this was answered, but how serious is this machine, are we talking "professional" level work, or work they will get paid for, or more personal usage.

No professional work, just a hobby at the moment, though I seem to be getting in deeper, and folks have asked me to shoot things for them.

My process usually consists of first copying to 2 directories, one a temp working dir, the other as temp b/u. I then go to the working dir and do whatever processing I want to do, saving each file as some other name. Once done I move them to a "Data" directory, and then dump the temp b/u's.

Once I have more HD space, I may keep the filtered, unprocessed images in some other b/u directory.

 

[vsrdan]

No need for a FireGL card for photo editing. FireGL cards are professional OpenGL cards, and PS3 doesn't use openGL. The vidcard, for the most part, isn't important in photo editing, just the monitor and color calibration -- if you're doing any professional work. If you're just doing home photos, then you most likely won't need to worry too much about color calibration.

FireGL info

DP Reviews Forums

BTW: I was replying to thread starter's first post. Didn't read about PS3 stuff. Sorry about that.

 

[engiNURD]

FireGL info

DP Reviews Forums

I'm sorry, I'm too lazy to click on those links and read it all, could you summarize it for me? Thanks.

 

[engiNURD]

Second guessing again...

Gigabyte DS3R vs. Gigabyte DS3L vs. ABIT IP35 Pro.

Seems folk on the newegg.com reviews have had more issues with the DS3R than the DS3L, but the DS3R has more appealing features (particularly the RAID capability and 4 more SATA ports). The IP35 has RAID capability and falls right in the middle of SATA port quantity, 6.

Maybe I just need to pick one and run with it, same with the CPU. I don't think any are bad options, though one might be a bit better. No choice is useless, though.

You can't go wrong with any of those boards, IMO. FYI, the DS3R comes with a PCI bracket for converting two internal SATA ports into eSATA ports. I've had NO problems with my DS3R, and I've built several rigs with the DS3L and IP35 Pro... both are good, but cater to different needs. If you only need 4 SATA ports and don't need RAID, Firewire, an extra PCI-E 4.16x slot, an external CMOS reset on the I/O panel, and uGuru OC'ing sw, then don't bother with the IP35 Pro.

 

[MrGuvernment]

FireGL info

DP Reviews Forums

BTW: I was replying to thread starter's first post. Didn't read about PS3 stuff. Sorry about that.

link 1 : FireGL is used for OpenGl rendering applications, mainly 3D work such as 3D Studio Max, AutoCAD and such, in no way does it render anything in photoshop regarding pictures in 2D

photoshop cs 3 does now (as of cs3) has some "basic" 3d modeling abilities but it is a far cry from needing a dedicated OpenGL card to do it.

 

[TurboDean]

Thanks, vsrdan, but I'm not doing any 3D modeling, just photo processing.


enginurd, I believe RAID support is something I should have available even though I won't be doint it immediately, and I do want SATA port headroom, so regardless of the reported reliability factor I guess the DS3L is out. Right or wrong, the reported reliability of the DS3R still concerns me, though. TheDS3R and the IP35 are rather comparable for a $28 difference, and 90% of 370 buyers at newegg really like the IP35, but how much faith can I put into the reviewers? I don't know. I'm feeling the $28 might be well spent for peace of mind. 'Cousre I'll be depressed if it is DOA.

 

[Dangman]

enginurd, I believe RAID support is something I should have available even though I won't be doint it immediately, and I do want SATA port headroom, so regardless of the reported reliability factor I guess the DS3L is out. Right or wrong, the reported reliability of the DS3R still concerns me, though. TheDS3R and the IP35 are rather comparable for a $28 difference, and 90% of 370 buyers at newegg really like the IP35, but how much faith can I put into the reviewers? I don't know. I'm feeling the $28 might be well spent for peace of mind. 'Cousre I'll be depressed if it is DOA. [/QUOTE]

I wouldn't put too much stock into Newegg reviews. A good majority of newegg reviewers are pretty much noobs when it comes to PC hardware. The key example for this are the high reviews for apevia PSUs, some of the shittiest PSUs out there.

 

[engiNURD]

The IP35 is around $120 with a $25MIR. So, its actually cheaper than the $130 DS3R. The IP35 PRO is around $150 after a $30 MIR. I chose the DS3R for its 8 SATA ports, and I chose the IP35 for its Firewire. I got such great deals on both boards (around $105 each at the time) that I couldn't bring myself to spend $180 up front for the PRO version of the IP35, especially since I didn't need the extra features (PCI-E 4.16x slot, external CMOS reset, uGuru, etc).

Gigabyte is a top tier manufacturer of mobos while Abit isn't as big. The retailer will RMA your board should it come DOA, instead of having to go through the manufacturer. Nobody has a perfect QA department. Gigabyte releases a lot of BIOS updates. Though, as I said earlier, I don't think you can go wrong with any of those three boards (DS3R, IP35, IP35 Pro).

 

[TurboDean]

OK, thanks, Danny and enginurd. I think I am done, and it is time to dive off the board.

 

[MrGuvernment]

i have an Abit IP35-E, i dont need all the fancy stuff and it has been great, mind you i do overclock, but the board it's self is rock solid like most all 35 based boards are.