GK104 Kepler gpu's Defective?

while i always take everything charlie says with a grain of salt... i am wondering why stock seems to be so low everywhere.
 
nV got lucky with the GK104s performance and was able to release something, even though in small quantities.
Most of us, even Kyle didn't expect anything from nV until May-June. So long as the GK110 is M.I.A., nV hasn't finished working out the issues with Kepler.
 
NVIDIA having yield problems? This should surprise.... no one.
 
aintz said:
this threads title is very misleading.
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How is it misleading? The last part of the Article says that it is possible the GK104 is defective, which is why Yields are so low.
 
If yields were really that bad you would think that they wouldn't really able to hold out on castrated GK104 cores for as long as they have.

Charlie has been dead wrong on just about every aspect of Kepler so far. I don't see why I should believe him here.

DASHlT said:
How is it misleading? The last part of the Article says that it is possible the GK104 is defective, which is why Yields are so low.
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TSMC halting production is why supply is so low. What are they just picking back up now?

I'm not so sure that I believe Charlie about the yields part especially with a GTX670 on the way with a full memory buss so even that is mostly a full fledged GK104. I think that he's full of it.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
If yields were really that bad you would think that they wouldn't really able to hold out on castrated GK104 cores for as long as they have.

Charlie has been dead wrong on just about every aspect of Kepler so far. I don't see why I should believe him here.
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Accually he was pretty damn close to right on the 680GTX, and even praised it....which is un-charlie like.
 
DASHlT said:
Accually he was pretty damn close to right on the 680GTX, and even praised it....which is un-charlie like.
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And then trashed and made a bunch of comments about how what he said at first had to do with physx improvements. In reality GTX680 takes a bigger hit with Physx than Fermi. He was full of it with Kepler. The guy was all over the place.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
And then trashed and made a bunch of comments about how what he said at first had to do with physx improvements. In reality GTX680 takes a bigger hit with Physx than Fermi. He was full of it with Kepler. The guy was all over the place.
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Yeah, he did say all that garbage about PhysX being what would allow the 680 to beat the 7970, all of which turned out to be nonsense.
 
Should edit the thread title -- makes it sound like existing GK104s may have issues, whereas it's a rumor about low GK104 yields :)

And yeah, I followed Charlie since October, looking for news about Kepler -- he seems quite intelligent, but at least this time, he really was all over the place with his info.
He gave a bunch of completely erroneous statements in hindsight.

I'll continue to read his site, just with a huge grain of NaCl -- and in the meantime, will be enjoying my GTX 680 :)
 
Ranguvar said:
Should edit the thread title -- makes it sound like existing GK104s may have issues, whereas it's a rumor about low GK104 yields :)

And yeah, I followed Charlie since October, looking for news about Kepler -- he seems quite intelligent, but at least this time, he really was all over the place with his info.
He gave a bunch of completely erroneous statements in hindsight.

I'll continue to read his site, just with a huge grain of NaCl -- and in the meantime, will be enjoying my GTX 680 :)
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Not sure how you came to that conclusion when I put "Defective?" as in....a question, not a Fact.
 
So to answer the question, no the actual GPUs in the cards are not defective.
 
DASHlT said:
How is it misleading? The last part of the Article says that it is possible the GK104 is defective, which is why Yields are so low.
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Actually it says the design is possibly defective...that's a whole lot different than GK104 is defective....
 
Crosshairs said:
Actually it says the design is possibly defective...that's a whole lot different than GK104 is defective....
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So the design of the GK104 being defective, doesnt mean the chip isnt defective?

I mean this is all speculation anyway....But yea if this is the reaosn Yields are low its not good.

But the 680 GTX is still 1 badass card
 
Charlie is alluding to an issue with one or several of the photomasks of the Kepler design. Highly complex photomasks will cause very low yields so it is entirely possible that Nvidia engineers went back to the drawing board to simplify some aspects to increase percentages. You have to keep in mind that the Kepler packs 3.5B transistors into a 294mm (squared) package. That is an incredibly small die.
 
They should just stop making GTX 680 and focus on GTX 670 and a new true high end card.
 
SonDa5 said:
They should just stop making GTX 680 and focus on GTX 670 and a new true high end card.
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The 670 and 680 use the exact same process so 670 availability will be similar for at least the next month or two.
 
Sounds like a lot of bullshit speculation to me. They're "defective", what the hell does that mean? If they're defective, then how are they shipping any cards? They either work or they don't. Obviously the cards work, or I wouldn't be typing this right now, so it seems tsmc simply can't make the chips.
 
B2BigAl said:
Sounds like a lot of bullshit speculation to me. They're "defective", what the hell does that mean? If they're defective, then how are they shipping any cards? They either work or they don't. Obviously the cards work, or I wouldn't be typing this right now, so it seems tsmc simply can't make the chips.
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If you read the article. It stats the reason for the very low yields of GK104 is because of a Defect in the GPU itself.

This is all speculation, but 1 thing for sure is Nvidia is having horrible supply right now of 680 gtx's.

Is it because of a defect in the GPU....who the fuck knows....Only Nvidia does.
 
One thing is for sure, Charlie doesn't know.

My favorite part of that article is where he says that "Nvidia even admits to yield issues" and than links to an investors conference from two month or so before GTX680 was even released. Journalism at its finest.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
One thing is for sure, Charlie doesn't know.

My favorite part of that article is where he says that "Nvidia even admits to yield issues" and than links to an investors conference from two month or so before GTX680 was even released. Journalism at its finest.
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But he was right. Nvidia admitted to 28nm yield issues. There was even an article on xbitlabs.com about it, where Nvidia admits it.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/graphi...er_Than_Expected_Chief_Executive_Officer.html
 
DASHlT said:
But he was right. Nvidia admitted to 28nm yield issues. There was even an article on xbitlabs.com about it, where Nvidia admits it.
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Yes, three months ago. Where did they say that they were having yield issues with GK104 post launch?
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
Yes, three months ago. Where did they say that they were having yield issues with GK104 post launch?
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“Decline [of gross margin] in Q1 is expected to be due to the hard disk drive shortage continuing, as well as a shortage of 28nm wafers. We are ramping our Kepler generation very hard, and we could use more wafers. The gross margin decline is contributed almost entirely to the yields of 28nm being lower than expected. That is, I guess, unsurprising at this point,” said Jen-Hsun Huang, chief executive officer of Nvidia, during a conference call with financial analysts.

Kepler = GK104
 
No where in that article does it state that the Kepler design is defective. The OP did that with the title of this thread. The rumor (nothing more) is that the design might be causing lower than expected yields. The more complex the design the lower the initial yields. If you buy a 680 now you're not buying a defective GPU.
 
AMD stocks levels seem fine, GTX680's seem to really scarce, only 2 in stock here in NZ for a whopping $999 ($780) - great bargain :) Every 78/79 SKU in plentiful stock - guess who's cleaning up on sales.
 
DASHlT said:
“Decline [of gross margin] in Q1 is expected to be due to the hard disk drive shortage continuing, as well as a shortage of 28nm wafers. We are ramping our Kepler generation very hard, and we could use more wafers. The gross margin decline is contributed almost entirely to the yields of 28nm being lower than expected. That is, I guess, unsurprising at this point,” said Jen-Hsun Huang, chief executive officer of Nvidia, during a conference call with financial analysts.

Kepler = GK104
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Dude, thats 28nm yield from three months ago. AMD could have been effected too, their launch was later than planned too.

Kepler=GK110, GK104, GK106, GK107

So, again where did Nvidia say that they were having yield issues with GK104 any time recently? More importantly how do you make that jump that something about GK104 is "defective"?
 
The other thing he doesn't mention is how these yields translate out to other bins. Are we going to see a bunch of 670 and 660 etc cards because they didn't make it as 680s? If this is so it may work out to lower priced GPUs in the upper midrange.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
Dude, thats 28nm yield from three months ago. AMD could have been effected too, their launch was later than planned too.

Kepler=GK110, GK104, GK106, GK107

So, again where did Nvidia say that they were having yield issues with GK104 any time recently? More importantly how do you make that jump that something about GK104 is "defective"?
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Ok...Good point. Please point out any other 28nm GPU's from Nvidia that has been released in the last 3 months?
 
DASHlT said:
Ok...Good point. Please point out any other 28nm GPU's from Nvidia that has been released?
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What does that have to do with anything? Thats exactly how AMD rolled out their 7xxx series. That means that their products are defective too?
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
What does that have to do with anything? Thats exactly how AMD rolled out their 7xxx series. That means that their products are defective too?
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Please show me any other 28nm Products from Nvidia that is not GK104.

Nope AMD's has plenty of 28nm products Available!

Again please show me another 28nm Kepler product other then GK104....Then I might believe ya that the article wasnt about GK104.
 
DASHlT said:
Please show me any other 28nm Products from Nvidia that is not GK104.
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WTF does that have to do with GK104?

Nope AMD's has plenty of 28nm products Available!
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Yup, four months after Tahiti at high launch prices, must have been defective too. ;)

Again please show me another 28nm Kepler product other then GK104....Then I might believe ya that the article wasnt about GK104.
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Again, I'm questioning the content of the article. What proof do you have to back up Charlie's claims.

Is this like his last Physx claims? He hasn't been right about a single aspect of GK104 yet. Why should I believe him now?
 
DASHlT said:
Please show me any other 28nm Products from Nvidia that is not GK104.

Nope AMD's has plenty of 28nm products Available!

Again please show me another 28nm Kepler product other then GK104....Then I might believe ya that the article wasnt about GK104.
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The Charlie article is in reference to the Nvidia 680 gpu (GK014). No one is claiming that the GK104 is defective. The rumor is that some aspect of the actual design is causing lower than expected yields so inventory is limited at this time. No need to turn that into something it's not.
 
Charlie has honestly gotten an awful lot right...
And the 28nm issue obviously affected the 680 BababooeyHTJ....

28 nm supply issues brought up by Nvidia.
Only 28nm card by nvidia is in low stock.

Its pretty flippin obvious that they learned about the 28nm supply issues while producing the 680..
Its their first 28nm card to launch so any 28nm news from them is talking about the 680.
 
My dog has a better strike rate ratio of correct info about GK104 than Charlie...
 
SonDa5 said:
They should just stop making GTX 680 and focus on GTX 670 and a new true high end card.
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No they should bring out real Kelper instead of hopped up GF104. Something worthy of upgrade. No offense GTX 680 owners but you only got 25-30% boost compared to over 60% from 280 to 480 and the list goes on.
 
DASHlT said:
Please show me any other 28nm Products from Nvidia that is not GK104.

Nope AMD's has plenty of 28nm products Available!

Again please show me another 28nm Kepler product other then GK104....Then I might believe ya that the article wasnt about GK104.
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The new mobile stuff is 28nm also - the GTX 660M, GT650M, and GT640M. Laptops with them might not be on sale yet, but I'd imagine Nvidia is already shipping the GPUs since some of them were due to go on sale in April.
 
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