gettin a Dell, kill me

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Shit... I want some DDR2.

Not a bad way to spend 5k, man. Especially when it's not your money :D
 
As to the Poster of the Thread: While it does suck you're getting a Dell, at least the system you're getting is cooking! :p Trust me, even though Dell is making that computer, you'll be more than happy with it :D.


towert7 said:
You see, the irony is that.

Dell has the worst support ive ever had the luck of dealing with.
So when your mother says she want's you to get a computer that is reliable and has good tech support............ she's as far off as can possible be in my opinion. (its an opinion).

Now i have nothing wrong with other races and nationalities, but when you call up tech support and get Yamid Elakbar the first, and you have the hardest time trying to understand what he's saying, and he can't understand a darn thing you just said........ it get's a little annoying (and who can forget those "let me put you on hold"... and they just hang up). LOL, try giving your e-mail address to one of them... it will take you an hour just to do that. "Yes sir, my e-mail address is [email protected]"....
Click to expand...

You know what, I bet you haven't even called Dell more than let's say, 5 times. Indeed, I doubt if you've gotten perhaps but ONCE a person on the line you couldn't understand. Additionally, it's rather ethnocentric of you to be saying "wah! I can't understand them! Damn foreigners!! wah wah wah!". Have you tried, oh, I don't know, working to understand them instead of expecting them to conform to YOUR standards of "English"? For your information, Indians go through weeks of grueling courses on how to talk like an American, there are fucking SCHOOLS for it for Christ's sake. They get trained, they learn how to pronounce consonants that are difficult for them (like "r's") like us. They take lessons on how to enunciate clearly. They even watch HOURS of American Sitcoms like "Friends" in order to understand our colloquialisms. In fact, I really doubt you know what you're talking about. There was a study done by a major broadcasting company (i think it was ABC), that found a surprising numbers of calls to "Customer Care" lines complaining about tech support people they "couldn't understand." However, shockingly :eek:, upon further investigation, the overwhelming majority of the calls were found to be unbased and lies at BEST. Really, what it all boils down to, is that you're just another ethnocentric, hyper-patriotic, outsorce-phobic, American.

In short, Sir, you are an asshole.
 
Carnival Forces said:
you are an asshole.
Click to expand...
why is he an asshole? he should have a right to his own opinion and granted this may not be those of the majority its still an opinion and something he went through. Also why do they have to go all this training, months and months of it just to be a tech support, we need jobs in THIS country not over there. for one we already do speak english, we have many people here who are compentent as well, and dell's tech support in the past was already top notch why did they have to mess with it to save a few bucks. and u have to agree that since they did move it to india compliments have gone up so his claim must hold water. Its not that indians are bad people or workers they are far from it but you live in america with many inpatient people who just don't want to deal with it and criticize others because of it, i certainly can't speak another language and i probably never will, i still applaud them for doing so.
 
ive called dell 2 times so far, to change my order to the gen 3 xps and also to see if it was the x800 pro or the x800xt. both times i got people from america. i dont know if i was lucky, or becasue i talked to the sales department and that is US people. When i ordered the dell it says i get xps specialized support. and it says i get moved in front of the line so i dont have to be put on hold. but im not sure if i get american tech support or foreign tech support. hmmmmm :confused:
 
damn dude thats sweet.
the worse that could happen is the mobo is shit and the video card is underclocked. you could always sell em and make a little investment in something better, but the rest of the stuff even dell cant mess up! have fun with it!!
 
Dell and gateway and hp/compaw DO make decent systems. Unfortunately they arent the ones most people buy in the 500-600 dollar segment. That segment is a joke, rebates that take to long to get, cases that can litterally fall apart etc etc. (beating a dead horse)

On the upper end of the scale, just like about any vendor they make decent systems. First id talk to some friends who have purchased pcs at local stores and check their satisfaction (or lack of it) then i would look at the large companies and weigh the pro's and con's.
 
i hate dell, my sister bought a dell before going off to school 4 years ago, back in the american tech support days, so it was a pretty good deal. now when she needs help and i'm noy around she ends up on the phone with Apu from the cornner Quiky Mart for three and a half hours, then Apu tells her to format. My sister does this not nkowing what she is doing and losses and colloge assingment. Apu just tells her what to do with out any warnings about what was about to happen yo the last 2 semesters work that was on the HDD. :mad:
 
hmm $5100 for a college pc :eek: , that system does own though, but then again dell :p I'd say just enjoy it, you shouldn't have to worry about upgrading for a while. Oh and the support is useless from India, which is why if you don't like it, vote with your $$$$
 
the biggest problem i have with these big name companies is the hardware and software they provide with these computers. those who buy them for just leisure use such as families who want to get pics from dc's or do mail they are fine for because they are setup to do so but when it comes time for little timmy to do a report he has to use microsoft works or nothing at all and has to buy additional software with it ala hp garbage. the software they also supply is not very in depth and forces the user to make additional purchases as well such as video editing of kids home movies or something. Also included is the matter that basic home users do not know what hardware is in their computer such as harddrives and such so they can't diagnose the problem and if they do they have to go through dell or hp which will take forever and they'll have no computer for that time. Thats why i always tell people to build their own computer. its not very hard for the younger generation. you know where your getting your parts from, u know how to return it, u can diagnosis, what is wrong, and u can save money to buy some better software as well. to me its a win, win situation in many ways. its the same thing with a car most people do not go into a dealership asking for anything they can drive. they want the comfort, the feel, the good parts, the safety, and if your a little car savy you can be more happy with your product so why not do the same with a computer and learn more about what your buying before you actually do so. just my 2 cents.
 
as to those of you who are outsource-phobic, here's a copy of towert7 (who i must say acted remarkably maturely, unlike my "asshole" comment, i was slightly heated :p) and my conversation.


Re: you commented on one of my posts

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by towert7
Quote:
You know what, I bet you haven't even called Dell more than let's say, 5 times. Indeed, I doubt if you've gotten perhaps but ONCE a person on the line you couldn't understand. Additionally, it's rather ethnocentric of you to be saying "wah! I can't understand them! Damn foreigners!! wah wah wah!". Have you tried, oh, I don't know, working to understand them instead of expecting them to conform to YOUR standards of "English"? For your information, Indians go through weeks of grueling courses on how to talk like an American, there are fucking SCHOOLS for it for Christ's sake. They get trained, they learn how to pronounce consonants that are difficult for them (like "r's") like us. They take lessons on how to enunciate clearly. They even watch HOURS of American Sitcoms like "Friends" in order to understand our colloquialisms. In fact, I really doubt you know what you're talking about. There was a study done by a major broadcasting company (i think it was ABC), that found a surprising numbers of calls to "Customer Care" lines complaining about tech support people they "couldn't understand." However, shockingly , upon further investigation, the overwhelming majority of the calls were found to be unbased and lies at BEST. Really, what it all boils down to, is that you're just another ethnocentric, hyper-patriotic, outsorce-phobic, American.

In short, Sir, you are an asshole.


That's what you said, and most of it i disagree with, for you are trying to force opinion onto me, opinion that you choose, and not what i choose. most of its not true.

I have no idea if these people even go through any training.... that was not proven by your reply....

The one thing i KNOW you were right on though, is that i don't support outsourcing. it makes me sad. Everything else, like i said... is eaither wrong, or unproven.
Now, i won't go into the specifics and pick apart your message sentence by sentence.

Now as im sure YOU KNOW, i have an opinion.... and you have an opinion. To say someones opinion is WRONG (without even knowing the reasons for their opinion, or the specifics of it...) is what i call ignorance.

Trust me, you'll change in life... that's a given.... how long it will take is yet to be determined.
Lets hope its a speedy recovery.

~Your lord and master, towert7


Lord and Master?

as for the rest of your reply
I was a little hotheaded at the time, so mos of my post is probably not even coherent. As for "no proof of schools". Very well, point taken.
1]Indians are trained well: http://www.americanaccent.com/callcenter.html
2]Call-centers spend in excess of $200,000 to train workers anually:
http://www.callcenternews.com/specials/ws_000804.shtml
3]Indian call-centers are extremely efficient with an almost 90% rate of first-time call resolutions, and less than 5% abandon rate:
http://www.cio-dpi.gc.ca/si-as/comm...8/sqm/sqm_e.pdf
4]Indians go through rigorous training to speak like Americans:
CNN (TV Special, I don't know how to link you to that )

as for the whole "opinions" thing. Sure, of course, you're entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. Just remember, the slave-holders were entitled to there opinions too...Opinions aren't always neither good nor bad. Unless, of course, you think that it was all right for the slave-holders to think the way they did...

My biggest concern about people like you, is the underlying mindset you embrace. You go on about outsourcing "stealing our jobs" and providing "horrible support." What don't you understand? People of other colors, nationalities, ethnicities can learn to speak English well, indeed, DO speak English well. Most of the call center techies probably speak English better than most Americans.

Additionally, as to outsourcing "stealing our jobs":
1]No it doesn't, a recent government inquiry released stated that it BENEFITED our economy.
2]As pe Paul Krugman (New York Times), Outsourcing was made possible only by AMERICAN companies laying the foundations, therefore, it reciprocates and HELPS American companies back.
3]No need to get mad at the Indians, it's YOUR companies who are doing it. The Indians are just trying to make an honest living like everyone else.
4]It's your government that makes it possible for Indian call-centers to be profitable; minimum wage here is higher than in India, therefore American companies will go where its cheapest (just like Nike making shoes in Indonesian sweat-shops).
5]You take a unilateral approach to trade, which is reallly bad. A multilateral (inclusive of other countries) approach, would generate 2.8 TRILLION dollars in the World Economy; 1.4 trillion of which developing countries will get, and it would also reduce the global poverty of over 320 MILLION people. Developed nations, such as the Western-European nations and America, for instance, would stand to benefit as well:
http://www.ipsnews.net/fsm2003/26.01.2003/nota6.shtml
(written by the PRESIDENT of the WTO, so it's qualified )

and by the way, so far as me challenging your opinions without "knowing the specifics", you've done the same by generalizing everything i said and saying
Quote:
Originally Posted by towert7
That's what you said, and most of it i disagree with, for you are trying to force opinion onto me, opinion that you choose, and not what i choose. most of its not true.


as for calling you an asshole, don't take it personally, it's just the mindset of ethnocentrism you embrace (either consciously or unconsciously). g'day.
 
Qwertyman said:
Also included is the matter that basic home users do not know what hardware is in their computer such as harddrives and such so they can't diagnose the problem and if they do they have to go through dell or hp which will take forever and they'll have no computer for that time. Thats why i always tell people to build their own computer. its not very hard for the younger generation. you know where your getting your parts from, u know how to return it, u can diagnosis, what is wrong, and u can save money to buy some better software as well. to me its a win, win situation in many ways. its the same thing with a car most people do not go into a dealership asking for anything they can drive. they want the comfort, the feel, the good parts, the safety, and if your a little car savy you can be more happy with your product so why not do the same with a computer and learn more about what your buying before you actually do so. just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Your so right. As far as cars go, some people just buy one on the premise that.... it looks nice and i like the color. ^_^ honestly, some people do buy cars based on just looks.

Anyway, the "general public" does'nt have time to learn about "technology". I say technology as general..... meaning computesr, cars, computer programming, hydrogen fuel cells.... all they need to know is that it works.... they don't care how, but just that it works... which is logical.
There arn't many people i personally know who know how to program in C++.... but they still use a computer. What happens when they click the icon? they don't care... just as long as it works.


As for people "SHOULD learn to build computers"..... i don't know.... there are some people that just share no interest in it......... They would know more if they knew the inner workings of their computer.... but some just don't care.
For instance, if i noticed a comptuer problem, i would analize it and narrow it down to what i think would be the problem... then i would call tech support (this is just an example). My parents on the other hand... if something broke, they would just call someone and complain that its broke.......... how do they fix it. <<< that, right there, is your point in a nut shell

Being in physics, its amazing how many complex things people take for granted....

Ultimatly, its their decision, and they decide what they want to know, and what they will just take for granted.
 
i agree wholeheartedly w/ towert on this one :p
forcing people to learn stuff isn't always a great idea. Although you have a point, if were to extend your argument, everyone should learn how to fix electric problems, plumbing, car mechanics, any household problem...pretty much w/ anything they own. That's just impossible, that's why there are experts :D

however, i am shocked that no one has responded to what i would have guessed should have been comments that would have sparked discussion! :eek:
 
well of course everyone can't be an expert at everything, i was just to lazy to type that. also everyone should have basic knowledge of most things such as the stuff in the above post, which i'm also to lazy to type.
 
Qwertyman said:
well of course everyone can't be an expert at everything, i was just to lazy to type that. also everyone should have basic knowledge of most things such as the stuff in the above post, which i'm also to lazy to type.
Click to expand...

lol, fair enough :p
 
chuckm1020 said:
ok are u ready for the price. your going to get sick. $5100 with tax and shipping :eek:
Click to expand...


Holy shit! What is your mom on? (Falcon NorthWest is up in the $5000 range, too)
 
Dude, how could you screw your mom out of so much money for a Pentium Extreme? The performance benefit is not worth the extra 800 DOLLARS over the 3.2!!!!!! You also don't need Office 2003 of any kind unless you're a business grad student, or you're at some new-fangled, hands-on college.


I put together this XPS machine for $3200 and it has everything you could want for gaming except that EE edition, including 4 year FULL service, Norton Internet Security, and 21" LCD: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=XPS&s=dhs



Also, you should be getting this drive configuration: 16x DVD-ROM with 12x DVD-RW. This is b/c, DVD requires 16X speed to play stutter free, so you need that standalone drive.

Also, you had BETTER be getting the XPS Gen 3 with PCI-Express, and you had BETTER be getting a CRT, b/c LCDs still aren't perfect for gaming yet :)

-A
 
wow, youre a little bastard child, you completly screwed your mom over with a P4EE. welcome to little-performance-gain-for-too-much-money-ville



ive had two dells....both axim PDA's :p
 
Also, you should be getting this drive configuration: 16x DVD-ROM with 12x DVD-RW. This is b/c, DVD requires 16X speed to play stutter free, so you need that standalone drive.

Also, you had BETTER be getting the XPS Gen 3 with PCI-Express, and you had BETTER be getting a CRT, b/c LCDs still aren't perfect for gaming yet :)

-A[/QUOTE]

um wow

you can play DVD's at 1x and theyre fine, since 1x equates to "The speed needed to play a DVD perfectly".

Also I have an LCD that kicks the shit out of any CRT. there is NO difference. dont give him bad advice because youve had bad experiances. the 2001FP is orgasmically good.
 
Additionally, as to outsourcing "stealing our jobs":
1]No it doesn't, a recent government inquiry released stated that it BENEFITED our economy.
2]As pe Paul Krugman (New York Times), Outsourcing was made possible only by AMERICAN companies laying the foundations, therefore, it reciprocates and HELPS American companies back.
3]No need to get mad at the Indians, it's YOUR companies who are doing it. The Indians are just trying to make an honest living like everyone else.
4]It's your government that makes it possible for Indian call-centers to be profitable; minimum wage here is higher than in India, therefore American companies will go where its cheapest (just like Nike making shoes in Indonesian sweat-shops).
5]You take a unilateral approach to trade, which is reallly bad. A multilateral (inclusive of other countries) approach, would generate 2.8 TRILLION dollars in the World Economy; 1.4 trillion of which developing countries will get, and it would also reduce the global poverty of over 320 MILLION people. Developed nations, such as the Western-European nations and America, for instance, would stand to benefit as well:
http://www.ipsnews.net/fsm2003/26.01.2003/nota6.shtml
(written by the PRESIDENT of the WTO, so it's qualified )
Click to expand...

I am not going to get into this debate once again, as we all are entitled to our own opinions, but Outsourcing IS stealing our jobs. IT IS stealing America's jobs. IT IS the reason why our unemployment rate has been at its peak (which is coming down). I do see some jobs opening back up in the US, but why is it right for other countries to get jobs that we americans should do, for our people? And then, when we can't get the tech jobs that we yearn for, we're then forced to work McJobs, and even those are being taken as well. I'm not in any way condoning racism in this matter, what I am saying is, if other countries want to flourish the way us americans do, they can either a: get out of their country and come to ours, legally of course, or b: find some way of advancing their own technology. How did us humans evolve into what we now know today?
 
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Oh wait, I just got caught in the paranoia of the chicken littles.

This is what everyone said would happen in the 70's with the auto companies. Look what happened? Toyota is becoming an american company, employing 10s of 1000's of workers, and Ford and GM are buying out tons of Japanese and European auto companies that can't pay their bills b/c of all the crooked contracts and loans those countries allow.



Look, if you think outsourcing is bad, go read an economics textbook, or an economics history book, b/c history has proven you wrong. The laws of economics have not become inverted: when other countries do well, they become our trade partners, lowering the cost of our goods.

While it is true that low-skill jobs are leaving, that just means that ppl need to educate themselves. Saying that everyone DESERVES a low-skill job if they are too lazy to learn a useful skill is like ME saying I DESERVE a job making horsedrawn carriages, b/c that's the only thing I'm good at, so you all had better stop driving Japanese cards, dammit!

Go to school. You can compete with Indians. They don't even get half the calories per day you do. This is not a slight at them, but at their economy.
 
MadSkills said:
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Oh wait, I just got caught in the paranoia of the chicken littles.

This is what everyone said would happen in the 70's with the auto companies. Look what happened? Toyota is becoming an american company, employing 10s of 1000's of workers, and Ford and GM are buying out tons of Japanese and European auto companies that can't pay their bills b/c of all the crooked contracts and loans those countries allow.



Look, if you think outsourcing is bad, go read an economics textbook, or an economics history book, b/c history has proven you wrong. The laws of economics have not become inverted: when other countries do well, they become our trade partners, lowering the cost of our goods.

While it is true that low-skill jobs are leaving, that just means that ppl need to educate themselves. Saying that everyone DESERVES a low-skill job if they are too lazy to learn a useful skill is like ME saying I DESERVE a job making horsedrawn carriages, b/c that's the only thing I'm good at, so you all had better stop driving Japanese cards, dammit!

Go to school. You can compete with Indians. They don't even get half the calories per day you do. This is not a slight at them, but at their economy.
Click to expand...

what u said is true. but i also have to add that their economy stinks not because of their "lack" of funds but because they have a billion people to support, way more then this country. Plus all that money some way or another does still get funneled back into the american economy one way or another. also for families i'm assuming that outsourcing is good for keeping the cost of a dell product down which is good. the biggest kick is that if these people spoke a 100% english like us here do, then no one would have known anything was wrong at all.
 
dude, I gotta dell. And I gotta tell, it's not half bad. My only problem is that they hooked the HDD to the same IDE chain as the CD-RW. I gotta fix that, but all and all it's really good. Dell focuses on quiet. My vid card has no HSF, so I on a thermostat thing, and the temp never really gets that high. They use quality parts, chances are your 9800xt will be built by ATi. One suggestion though is get rid of all the dell stuff they load, you dont need it. They are there to help people who dont know things about computers. Also the fan is controlled by temperature. So, the hotter it is, the louder, but it still isnt that bad.


And dont listen to the dissenters in this thread, your dell will be fine. It's performance will be fine. And the ram IS no-name RAM, but it is stable has hell. Passed every single Memtest I put to it. Worst comes to worst you can always get a new mobo/case/psu. But its up to you, you'll like your dell, not as much as a home-built, but it will do exactly what you mom intended it to do, it'll be stable.
 
JSClark said:
I am not going to get into this debate once again, as we all are entitled to our own opinions, but Outsourcing IS stealing our jobs. IT IS stealing America's jobs. IT IS the reason why our unemployment rate has been at its peak (which is coming down). I do see some jobs opening back up in the US, but why is it right for other countries to get jobs that we americans should do, for our people? And then, when we can't get the tech jobs that we yearn for, we're then forced to work McJobs, and even those are being taken as well. I'm not in any way condoning racism in this matter, what I am saying is, if other countries want to flourish the way us americans do, they can either a: get out of their country and come to ours, legally of course, or b: find some way of advancing their own technology. How did us humans evolve into what we now know today?
Click to expand...

It's ownage time.

let's start with little parts of what you said

little part number 1.


JSClark said:
Outsourcing IS stealing our jobs. IT IS stealing America's jobs. IT IS the reason why our employment rate has been at its peak (which is coming down).
Click to expand...

1]No it's not. Stealing would mean the jobs existed, for to steal something there has to be something to steal. Outsourcing jobs never EXISTED in the US, so they can't be stolen from it. These jobs were CREATED overseas, therefore, they weren't stolen.
2]America's jobs..hmm...i suppose those would be created by, oh, i don't know, American companies, eh? Oh hold up!! Hang on!! It's the American companies who are giving these American jobs to those damn non-Americans! Axes! Halbreds! Pitchforks and Torches! (</satire>)
3]Ethnocentrism 101: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ethnocentrism
eth·no·cen·trism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thn-sntrzm)
n.
Belief in the superiority of one's own ethnic group.
Overriding concern with race.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ethno·centric (-trk) adj.
ethno·centri·cal·ly adv.
ethno·cen·trici·ty (-sn-trs-t) n.

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


eth·no·cen·trism (thn-sntrzm)
n.

The tendency to evaluate other groups according to the values and standards of one's own ethnic group, especially with the

conviction that one's own ethnic group is superior to the other groups.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ethno·centric (-trk) adj.
ethno·cen·trici·ty (-sn-trs-t) n.


Source: The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.


ethnocentrism

n : belief in the superiority of one's own ethnic group


Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

sub-points:

A)
The tendency to evaluate other groups according to the values and standards of one's own ethnic group, especially with the conviction that one's own ethnic group is superior to the other groups.
Click to expand...
You claim that it's "our jobs" or "American jobs" that are stolen. You're qualifying the jobs as being uniquely American, as opposed to just jobs. These aren't just ANY run-of-the-mill jobs, Sir! These ones here, are American jobs. Why is it so important that Americans get clothed, fed, cared for, and have decent work above other nationalities / ethnicities?

B)
Belief in the superiority of one's own ethnic group.
Overriding concern with race.
Click to expand...
Once again, you make claims of "American" or "our" jobs, as opposed to jobs in general. Why are you so uptight about AMERICAN jobs? Don't you care about, let's say, the Mexican sugar-cane farmers who have nearly been put out of business? In a striking protectionist policy (the ones you seem to favor) the US has pushed "High-fructose corn syrup" on its Kansas farmers (for example). That's why every time you pick up something sweet you'll see among its top ingredients "High-fructose corn syrup". Needless to say, this has sent the base of Mexico's already fragile economy into (another) tailspin. But it's okay, right? Who cares if thousands of Mexican children sink into the jaws of poverty -- YOU'VE GOT AIR CONDITIONING thanks to your shiny new AMERICAN job, and THAT'S WHAT MATTERS.
3]Unemployment is being solved DESPITE massive trends UPWARD in outsourcing:
http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xht...g-Here-To-Stay&story_id=24081&category=trends
Since the first report surfaced, along with similar estimates by other consulting firms, the business environment has changed in the United States. The economy has begun to climb out of the onerous recession of the last three and a half years. Also, unemployment appears to trending down following its sharp -- indeed, near unprecedented -- increase during the same time period. In short, outsourcing is unlikely to be the hot political button it was even six months ago.

Ironically, Forrester notes that the outcry prompted in part by its statistics led to a greater awareness of the efficiencies to be gained from outsourcing. "Instead of squelching activity, the increased press and savings have spurred senior executives to ask, 'What is our offshore strategy?'" the report says.
Click to expand...
4]You said it yourself. Unemployment is being solved, even though outsourcing exists!
JSClark said:
our employment rate has

been at its peak (which is coming down)
Click to expand...

little part number 2.


JSClark said:
why is it right for other countries to get jobs that we americans should do, for our people?
Click to expand...
1]SEE: Ethnocentrism 101
once again you claim that Americans are somehow intrinsically better than other races, i mean, COME ON. Why the hell should some damn INDIANS get jobs to feed their starving country when there's an American without CABLE T.V!?!!?
2]EXTEND my #5:
Carnival Forces said:
5]You take a unilateral approach to trade, which is reallly bad. A multilateral (inclusive of other countries) approach, would generate 2.8 TRILLION dollars in the World Economy; 1.4 trillion of which developing countries will get, and it would also reduce the global poverty of over 320 MILLION people. Developed nations, such as the Western-European nations and America, for instance, would stand to benefit as well:
http://www.ipsnews.net/fsm2003/26.01.2003/nota6.shtml
(written by the PRESIDENT of the WTO, so it's qualified )
Click to expand...
you haven't answered it. you drop it. you concede it.

little part number 3.


JSClark said:
if other countries want to flourish the way us americans do, they can either a: get out of their country and come to ours, legally of course, or b: find some way of advancing their own technology.
Click to expand...
1]Oh yes, "us" Americans sure is flourishing! We even speak the English better then them thur British boys!
2]
JSClark said:
they can...get out of their country and come to ours, legally of course
Click to expand...
b/c that's so easy, right? WRONG.
To become a US citizen you must first immigrate and then become naturalized. To ONLY PROCESS the immigration application can take over TEN YEARS: http://www.vidaamericana.com/english/visa.html
3]Now for naturalization. Just getting the APPLICATION processed can take LONGER than 2 YEARS. Then you (if you make it, that is) have to wait in this country for FIVE years before you're naturalized.
4]So that's a total of 17 years. Now, you can only begin when you're 18 years old. So you would be thirty-five years old, and only THEN be a citizen.
http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/faq.htm#q13
5]
JSClark said:
find some way of advancing their own technology
Click to expand...
sub-points:
A)Ethnocentrism SEE: Ethnocentrism 101
B)Have you ever used Java, buddy boy? Or Linux? Or IRC? Or mIRC?... or ..Google? All of these were made by FOREIGNERS (google was made by a Russian who (I think) is a naturalzied American citizen as well, and also an American). That's right. Guess what, they're integral parts of "our(US)" technology.
C)THE BIG ONE: Howaobut the Internet? That couldn't function if it was just the US. It would be instantly devalued. Also, many many advancements to "our(US)" technology have come from foreigners..the Internet wasn't advanced all by the US...
5]To make a claim that they need to "advanc[e] their own technology[/QUOTE] is blatantly unilateral; cross-apply my number 5 by the president of the WTO.

little part number 4.


JSClark said:
How did us humans evolve into what we now know today?
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1]Obviously Americans haven't evolved that far since you still can't speak English correctly.
2]Believe it or not, it wasn't the Americans who pioneered the way for humane evolution; long before your country was
FOUNDED, India was a giant. As was China. And Britain. And a myriad of others.
3]America's only ~200 years old. While it has undeniably had major impacts on the world, not all of them have been good.

Why don't we look at:
sub-poitns:
A)Ethnocentrism SEE: Ethnocentrism 101
B)Ignored Rwanda and paved the way for future genocides in 1994
C)Backed out of the League of Nations it founded, thereby undermining the peace process and multilateral approach, leading to World War II.
D)Has tacitly allowed for genocide to become acceptable by non-action in Somalia and Sudan.
E)Legitimized the use of Nuclear weapons as an acceptable means of warfare (Hiroshima and Nagasaki) thus leading to a world-wide embracement of nuclearism, and therefore, the North Korean Nuclear Crisis (and soon to see the sequal: "Irked Iranis!")
there are many many more, but those are ones just off the top of my head.


my own little part: Why ethnocentrism is bad.


1]Slave-holders were ethnocentric to the degree of dehumanizing the blacks. This dehumanization allowed for slavery to take place. Therefore, an act of support to ethnocentrism is another action closer towards slavery.
2]The Nazis were ethnocentric. They believed in the superiority of the Aryan (they even got that wrong :rolleyes:) race above (particularly, but not only) the Jewish race. Look what happened, heard of the Holocaust?
3]Ethnocentrism is the driving force behind such genocidal conflicts as Rwanda (1994) in which 800,000 people died in only 100 days at a rate that was roughly five times faster than the Nazi death-machine.
4]Ethnocentrism has proven a substantial block to multi-national nations such as the United Nations, thereby blocking efforts to stop genocidal conflicts, civil strife, and human-rights violations (once again, empircal example=Rwanda).
5]Ethnocentrism is just, plain, morally indefensible. It's as bad as bad gets, to the core. Without a doubt, it is one of the scourges facing our entire race today. Unfortunately, people like you (either consciously or unconsciously) adopt this mindset, which allows for it to continue to propogate, like a festering wound in the body of our humankind.
 
i love these debates, both make very good points. i was wondering wat speed will the dvd-rw i got play dvd's at. kronchev told me i need a 16X to play dvd's good. but my old 12X played them just fine. and for the people saying i better be getting the gen 3. i am, i said that in this thread somewhere, but i know its long to read. and dell did tell me the x800xt is the one built by ati. and for people saying the 3.4EE isnt worth it, i know!!!!!!!! duh, im not an idiout. but i will be using this system for about 3-4 years. so i wanted the fastest dell i could build. and that was it. and thats why i got 2GB of memory. i know i dont need it yet, but in a few years probably. hey kronchev, im thinkin about puttin a exos on this too. jk. ill miss those debates.
 
chuckm1020 said:
i love these debates, both make very good points.
Click to expand...
but i make better ones ;)

chuckm1020 said:
i was wondering wat speed will the dvd-rw i got play dvd's at. kronchev told me i need a 16X to play dvd's good. but my old 12X played them just fine. and for the people saying i better be getting the gen 3. i am, i said that in this thread somewhere, but i know its long to read. and dell did tell me the x800xt is the one built by ati. and for people saying the 3.4EE isnt worth it, i know!!!!!!!! duh, im not an idiout. but i will be using this system for about 3-4 years. so i wanted the fastest dell i could build. and that was it. and thats why i got 2GB of memory. i know i dont need it yet, but in a few years probably. hey kronchev, im thinkin about puttin a exos on this too. jk. ill miss those debates
Click to expand...

kronchev was the one who said you didn't need a 16x speed; he said that 1x is what is required, to quote another poster "to play DVDs perfectly".

chuckm1020 said:
jk. ill miss those debate
Click to expand...
miss them? where are you going?
 
ill miss them because i dont have my other comp anymore with the exos on it. i guess we could still argue about it, but it wont be as fun because i dont have one :D
 
chuckm1020 said:
i love these debates, both make very good points. i was wondering wat speed will the dvd-rw i got play dvd's at. kronchev told me i need a 16X to play dvd's good. but my old 12X played them just fine. and for the people saying i better be getting the gen 3. i am, i said that in this thread somewhere, but i know its long to read. and dell did tell me the x800xt is the one built by ati. and for people saying the 3.4EE isnt worth it, i know!!!!!!!! duh, im not an idiout. but i will be using this system for about 3-4 years. so i wanted the fastest dell i could build. and that was it. and thats why i got 2GB of memory. i know i dont need it yet, but in a few years probably. hey kronchev, im thinkin about puttin a exos on this too. jk. ill miss those debates.
Click to expand...

Im with you, i also just graduated from high school, and will be attending a university next year ^_^ !!!

So i know the feeling of trying to get something that will last a good 4 years (very important to have a reliable system.... so you don't loose your whole masters thesis)

The only problem i see with your computer, is not the speed.... its the lack of 64bit processing. I forsee the majority of programs being written for 64 bit processors by two years..... that might make a 32bit processor outdated .

LOL@Qwertyman with the syrup.


==========================

I think its time we start taking bets to see how much longer this thread stays active.....

I say its a "dead thread" within a day. Anyone want to take me up on this? LOL
 
Your mom said that she wants you to get a dell because it comes with a good warranty?

I think that all of us that have built our own computers have the best warranty by far as far as computers go. I mean... if the video card goes bad, go get a cheapie from newegg. This way, you won't be computerless for more than 3 days. When dell fixes it, it might take about two weeks or more.

Just my $24.36 :D
 
Last year, when I graduated high school, my mom bought me a HP computer that ran her $1000. It's a P42.6, 512 DDR ram, FX5200, blah blah. I added a faster HDD and more ram. My new case, PS will be coming in shortly. I ordered at 4PM from NewEgg yesterday and it's already been shipped :D

Anyways, sucks that our parents put matters into their own hands, but they just want what is best for us. However, my mom had the box sitting in the living room when I came home late one night. You, still have a chance to save your parents thousands of dollars and build your own computer. Screw the Dell warranty. Guys here will be mroe than glad to help if you ever run into a problem.
 
towert7 said:
I think its time we start taking bets to see how much longer this thread stays active.....

I say its a "dead thread" within a day. Anyone want to take me up on this? LOL
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lol, sure, i say it's alive by day-after-tomorrow.
 
EnderW said:
someone needs to lock this for sure
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i'd prefer they wait for JSClark to respond :D

but anyways, Dell = good pretty much. Their warranties are pretty good, so if something does...malfunction...(I wonder if ClockGen will work w/ Dell hardware..hmm...) it can get *replaced* :D
 
I still really want to build my own computer. i would build an fx-53 939 system definetly. after im done with this dell and some schooling, ill go back to building them. alot of u guys say u cant upgrade a dell. are u just meaning motherboard, and psu. im thinkin maybe 2-3 years down the line i might want to put a different video card in there."u know they practically come out with a new line of vid cards every year" is upgrading the vid card possible, i wouldnt see why not, unless dell did something weird so it cant be done.
 
chuckm1020 said:
I still really want to build my own computer. i would build an fx-53 939 system definetly. after im done with this dell and some schooling, ill go back to building them. alot of u guys say u cant upgrade a dell. are u just meaning motherboard, and psu. im thinkin maybe 2-3 years down the line i might want to put a different video card in there."u know they practically come out with a new line of vid cards every year" is upgrading the vid card possible, i wouldnt see why not, unless dell did something weird so it cant be done.
Click to expand...

i would guess upgrading the vid. card would be possible, i mean, they all use AGP (except maybe for PCI-Express coming out later...) so I don't see why not.

as for building a 939 system, IIRC, that's a bad choice b/c AMD plans to be dropping that core and going 940 i think
 
Carnival Forces said:
i would guess upgrading the vid. card would be possible, i mean, they all use AGP (except maybe for PCI-Express coming out later...) so I don't see why not.

as for building a 939 system, IIRC, that's a bad choice b/c AMD plans to be dropping that core and going 940 i think
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are they going to be dropping all the 939's, wich they just released. or just the fx series, and just keeping all of the fx's on to 940
 
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