Gateway FPD2485W - 24" HD LCD

DuncanR2N said:
Still have the inverse ghosting issue (that has been on all 4 monitors that I had) but that I think I can deal with it. My understanding is that all these monitors (Dell, Westy, LG, Acer, Benq) do it.
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They all have ghosting, certainly, but I haven't really heard any complaints about inverse ghosting on those other models (at least certainly not on the LG and BenQ). In fact, this seemed to be one of the primary reasons why some prefer these other monitors to the Gateway. I didn't notice any inverse ghosting on the LG when I looked at it in the store, while it was readily apparent on the Gateway just by dragging windows around. Of course, it's possible that it was really there on the LG and either too imperceptible to notice, or I just didn't see the right situation where it would have been obvious. But from reading these boards this issue seemed to be nonexistent for these other models (they do, of course, have plenty of other issues of their own :)).

Still, though, I'm glad to hear you got one you liked. If the inverse ghosting doesn't bother you then this seems to be a fine monitor in other respects (provided you don't get a lemon, or two, or three... :)).
 
Sinister Crayon said:
The Gateway has the worst QC of all the 24 inch manufacturers. The BenQ line-up is probably your best shot for QC, the only major known issue is that it crops a 1080p signal from the PS3, but that should be fixed soon. If you can't afford that, go for the Dell, its got a terrible scaler, but for DVI/VGA use, it should do the job.
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What's wrong with the scaler on the Dell? I'm still toying with the idea of return the Gateway and getting the Dell if it would get rid of the inverse ghosting. I played around with the monitor some more last night and the inverse ghosting started to drive me nuts. Mostly I'll be running 1920x1200 from the PC over DVI and 1920x1080 using 1:1 scaling from my 360. However, I do play games (like Warcraft III) that will only support 1600x1200 so I want that to scale 1:1 and older games like Starcraft (640x480) that would need to scale up and maintain aspect ratio. Eventually I would like to run a PS3 on this as well and my understanding is that I can do this using an HDMI to DVI-D converter and run at 1080p.
 
The inverse ghosting is starting to drive me nuts too. Was playing Ridge Racer 6 on the Xbox360 last night and the lane markings (white on pavement) were showing much darker streaks of equal width all throughout the game. Highly visible stuff. I'm thinking of keeping this as my PC work monitor and hopefully something better will appear this year.

I keep hearing stuff about Samsung and Benq releasing new LCD tech that inserts blank screens between refreshes to smooth out any ghosting. Looking forward to that stuff.
 
Xeth said:
Here is my nightmare of an experience with this monitor.

About 3 weeks ago, after much comparison and research on all the 24" LCDs, I pulled the trigger and bought my first FPD2485W - Jan 07 MGQ71 model from Circuity City. It had significant backlight bleed on the top right corner and a dead pixel near the bottom, so I exchanged it for another one, figuring it was bad luck.

The second monitor - Feb 07 MGQ72 had a flawless panel - little bleeding, minimal ghosting, no dead pixels. But as it heated up, the monitor started locking up - the OSD control buttons would stop responding (including the standby button), and if I power cycled the monitor, the buttons would not show up at all and the monitor would not detect any inputs. The only fix was to unplug the thing for about 15 minutes, then everything returns to normal (I guess because the electronics cooled down a bit). Gateway support gave no answers (guy said he was stumped).

So I went to CC again and got a third one. This one (Feb 07 MGQ72) has backlight bleed on the four corners until it warms up: then the upper right corner's bleed gets bigger and the rest disappears. Ugh. I decided to keep this monitor for a few more days to see if the bleeding will fix itself away. It hasn't, of course.

Then today I had an idea... maybe Circuit City got a batch of lemons. So I went to a Best Buy and got another one, my 4th (Feb 07 MXH72). This one had a quarter sized dark patch on the upper left corner that was visible at all times. It's as if the panel had been subjected to high pressure or was struck on this spot. Warming up the monitor doesn't help.

So I marched back into Best Buy and asked for an exchange and demanded to examine the replacement monitor before I leave. The first box I opened had a panel with the exact same problem on the upper right corner. After I opened my second one the service reps refused to let me open any more boxes... Luckily that panel did not have any immediately visible defects anyway so I took it home. Then I found that it had the worst backlight bleeding I've ever seen out of the 6 panels that's been in my hands - both the upper and lower right corners had swaths the size of my palm and visible even with pictures on the screen. As the monitor warms up the bleeding gets worse.

Now I'm sitting here with 2 FPD2485W's, one from circuity city with some backlight bleed and a buzzing power supply, and one from best buy with severe backlight bleed.

Should I

1. Return both and wait until Gateway gets their QC under control (or another monitor with this feature set comes on the market)? - this would be the logical choice but I've invested so much on time this already, and I don't want to wait months and month for a good monitor with this feature set.
2. Return one and RMA the other one, hoping Gateway's RMA dept. send out better quality ones?
3. Return both and order one from Gateway.com? Maybe Gateway keeps the nicer grades and sends the leftovers to retailers. The price difference is not much of an issue.
4. Go hit up more BB's and CC's?
5. Return the one with the severe bleeding and keep the other, knowing that its the best I can hope for...? Now that I know how bad the backlight bleeding can really be I'm a bit more willing to tolerate it, and the buzzing power supply gets drowned out easily by fans or speakers.
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Took me 4 tries to get one that I liked. However, now I have Gateway logo stuck in the middle of the screen if you manully power down monitor with pc on problem then manually power monitor back on problem. I can live with it even though it's an annoyance.

If not for the fact that I want to use my PS3 and XBox 360 with proper 1080p on the monitor then I'd probably get either one of the newer Benq LCDs. QC on the Gateway is like winning the lottery. :eek:
 
DuncanR2N said:
What's wrong with the scaler on the Dell? I'm still toying with the idea of return the Gateway and getting the Dell if it would get rid of the inverse ghosting. I played around with the monitor some more last night and the inverse ghosting started to drive me nuts. Mostly I'll be running 1920x1200 from the PC over DVI and 1920x1080 using 1:1 scaling from my 360. However, I do play games (like Warcraft III) that will only support 1600x1200 so I want that to scale 1:1 and older games like Starcraft (640x480) that would need to scale up and maintain aspect ratio. Eventually I would like to run a PS3 on this as well and my understanding is that I can do this using an HDMI to DVI-D converter and run at 1080p.
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The scaler on the dell does not allow certain inputs. 1080i will not work over DVI, 1080p over component is non-existent, it won't use aspect on a 1080p signal only 1:1 when both should work fine. Other than that, for your uses it would work fine, and I just might buy another 2407 if BenQ doesn't fix the 1:1 issues they are currently having. I've been living in 17 inch hell after I sent my 2407 back and I just might buy another one depending on how long I can hold out...
 
My own monitor evaluation process continues. Repeating from earlier posts, my primary needs are #1 online research/reading #2 photography/video editing. I definitely want the real estate offered by a 24" monitor and I sure like having decent quality speakers integrated so my desk is not cluttered. My PC has a single ATI Radeon X1950 card.

I've been comparing the Gateway (MGQ71/Jan 07) to a new LG Flatron. The LG definitely has less color banding and a little less flicker when scrolling on some checkered/striped patterns. After long hours experimenting with optimum settings, it seems the Gateway blacks are deeper and more resolved. In other words, although the Gateway has more banding, especially in the darker colors, it crushes the blacks less. Also, the LG seems to have less variability in color/brightness as my head viewing angle moves a bit.

It seems the antiglare coating is much stronger on the Gateway. Perhaps this is why the blacks are deeper (and brightness is more sensitive to slight variations in viewing angle). However, I am starting to wonder if this is also why text on the Gateway is less sharp. At first I thought the Gateway text was better than the LG, but now I realize that initial perception was because the Gateway text was blacker (bolder). After spending time reading on both, the LG seems to be easier on the eyes. It seems my eyes have to work harder to read on the Gateway because the font edges are sharper on the LG. I also get the feeling my eyes are having more trouble focusing on Gateway text because they are picking up the strong antiglare presence on the screen surface. I don't think I have ever used a monitor where the antiglare coating is such a distraction.

As an aside, it looks like new HP monitors have very glossy screens with no antiglare coating. At first I thought that was nuts, but now I am beginning to wonder if HP is on to something. Sure this will be a problem from reflections of any light or bright objects behind the screen, but if such light sources can be controlled, as in my home office, it seems minimal screen coatings lead to less eye fatigue after hours spent reading from the screen. Since I spend so much time every day working on my computer, and I frequently feel fatigue as a result, anything I can do to get the more readable screen is worth it.

I am anxious to hear what others have discovered about text readability with the Gateway and thoughts on the antiglare coating. I sure would like to keep the Gateway because of its integrated speakers and easy to use menus, but I need to buy a monitor (under $1K) with the highest text quality.
 
Sinister Crayon said:
The scaler on the dell does not allow certain inputs. 1080i will not work over DVI, 1080p over component is non-existent, it won't use aspect on a 1080p signal only 1:1 when both should work fine. Other than that, for your uses it would work fine, and I just might buy another 2407 if BenQ doesn't fix the 1:1 issues they are currently having. I've been living in 17 inch hell after I sent my 2407 back and I just might buy another one depending on how long I can hold out...
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So does the Dell have the inverse ghosting problems that the Gateway has?
 
Well guys after a few months of debating on whither I should hold onto my Gateway or move on to something else, I finally bit the bullet and got a BenQ FP241WZ last night.

Initial impressions are that the two panels are quite different in terms of image quality and colour.
The Gateway actually seems overly saturated in colour now & while the blacks seem darker, they are also very crushed. I can certainly pick out a lot more detail in dark backgrounds with the BenQ. By default the Gateway looks more inviting with its rich saturated colours, but the FP241WZ somehow seems more realistic though it does require some colour adjustments to be made due to an obvious green push in the default colour mode.

I much prefer the anti-glare coating of the BenQ as the Gateway just looks so obvious and I think it really hinders the overall quality of the image displayed.

Viewing angle on the BenQ is also a nice improvement and while not perfect, overall colour balance between the left and right sides of the screen is fairly uniform. Certainly more so than the FPD2485WH.

I always thought that text looked quite sharp (once ClearType Tuning has been disabled in Windows) on the Gateway, yet I have to say that the FP241WZ is actually sharper and more crisp looking. Really quite nice.

Backlight bleed on the FPD2485WH was obvious on all four corners of the screen upon it first being turned on but mostly faded out after the panel warmed up for a bit. As for the BenQ, well its perfect... No bleed at all that I can see.

Probably the biggest issue I had with the Gateway was that darned inverted ghosting. Talk about annoying!
Well I'm ecstatic to say that the BenQ doesn't seem to suffer from this. Sure it has a bit of ghosting (like any LCD) but it ghosts the same colour and is generally harder to see and less obvious to my eyes.
Because of this I've noticed much smoother panning in movies and no obvious flickering/twinkling in game textures or any screen patterns.

One area the BenQ looses out to the Gateway is its implementation of the OSD controls.
I really like the ease of use on the FPD2485WH here. Those touch sensitive controls are great compared to the fairly hidden side panel mounted buttons of the BenQ.

I haven't tested out any of the other inputs as of yet (besides DVI to my PC). It'll be interesting to see how 1:1 compares between the two models.

With a bit more colour / brightness / contrast adjustment, I think I'll have the FP241WZ right were I want it.

As for the Gateway.... Well a buddy from work is stopping by this weekend to pick it up.
I think he will enjoy it as it is a good screen, just not quite my cup of tea.


Cheers.
 
jamiee said:
Well guys after a few months of debating on whither I should hold onto my Gateway or move on to something else, I finally bit the bullet and got a BenQ FP241WZ last night.

Initial impressions are that the two panels are quite different in terms of image quality and colour.
The Gateway actually seems overly saturated in colour now & while the blacks seem darker, they are also very crushed. I can certainly pick out a lot more detail in dark backgrounds with the BenQ. By default the Gateway looks more inviting with its rich saturated colours, but the FP241WZ somehow seems more realistic though it does require some colour adjustments to be made due to an obvious green push in the default colour mode.

I much prefer the anti-glare coating of the BenQ as the Gateway just looks so obvious and I think it really hinders the overall quality of the image displayed.

Viewing angle on the BenQ is also a nice improvement and while not perfect, overall colour balance between the left and right sides of the screen is fairly uniform. Certainly more so than the FPD2485WH.

I always thought that text looked quite sharp (once ClearType Tuning has been disabled in Windows) on the Gateway, yet I have to say that the FP241WZ is actually sharper and more crisp looking. Really quite nice.

Backlight bleed on the FPD2485WH was obvious on all four corners of the screen upon it first being turned on but mostly faded out after the panel warmed up for a bit. As for the BenQ, well its perfect... No bleed at all that I can see.

Probably the biggest issue I had with the Gateway was that darned inverted ghosting. Talk about annoying!
Well I'm ecstatic to say that the BenQ doesn't seem to suffer from this. Sure it has a bit of ghosting (like any LCD) but it ghosts the same colour and is generally harder to see and less obvious to my eyes.
Because of this I've noticed much smoother panning in movies and no obvious flickering/twinkling in game textures or any screen patterns.

One area the BenQ looses out to the Gateway is its implementation of the OSD controls.
I really like the ease of use on the FPD2485WH here. Those touch sensitive controls are great compared to the fairly hidden side panel mounted buttons of the BenQ.

I haven't tested out any of the other inputs as of yet (besides DVI to my PC). It'll be interesting to see how 1:1 compares between the two models.

With a bit more colour / brightness / contrast adjustment, I think I'll have the FP241WZ right were I want it.

As for the Gateway.... Well a buddy from work is stopping by this weekend to pick it up.
I think he will enjoy it as it is a good screen, just not quite my cup of tea.


Cheers.
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That's nice to hear. I think I'll be taking Gateway back tomorrow, I'm now trying to decide between the Dell and BenQ. I'm really interested in hearing your feedback once you've hooked up some other video sources.
 
Well guys after a few months of debating on whither I should hold onto my Gateway or move on to something else, I finally bit the bullet and got a BenQ FP241WZ last night.

Initial impressions are that the two panels are quite different in terms of image quality and colour.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting your comparison here. I read someplace that the LG and BenQ are both using the same AU Optronics panel, but I'm not sure if that is true.

The Gateway actually seems overly saturated in colour now & while the blacks seem darker, they are also very crushed. I can certainly pick out a lot more detail in dark backgrounds with the BenQ.
Click to expand...

As I posted above, the blacks also seem darker on the Gateway compared to the LG. However, I also wrote that the LG crushed the blacks more, but now I would say they are about the same. It seems to depend on how they are adjusted. For the LG, the brightness can be raised to resolve lots of black detail, but that reduces the depth (darkness) of the blacks. For the Gateway, slightly off-center viewing angles seem to produce more black detail, but since the brightness can be cranked up (I run 90) without losing black depth, I get decent detail head on too.

I haven't tried calibrating colors carefully on either monitor besides quick eyeball adjustments to RGB on the OSDs. The skin tones in pictures does seem a little better on the LG.

I much prefer the anti-glare coating of the BenQ as the Gateway just looks so obvious and I think it really hinders the overall quality of the image displayed.
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I do think this is a problem for the Gateway. It seems to be a cause of the dramatic shifts in brightness/color with slight viewing angle changes as well as a degredation of text sharpness/crispness. It does seem that this antiglare text degredation diminishes at greater viewing distances.

Viewing angle on the BenQ is also a nice improvement and while not perfect, overall colour balance between the left and right sides of the screen is fairly uniform. Certainly more so than the FPD2485WH.
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Both my Gateway and LG seem uniform across the screen.

I always thought that text looked quite sharp (once ClearType Tuning has been disabled in Windows) on the Gateway, yet I have to say that the FP241WZ is actually sharper and more crisp looking. Really quite nice.
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I'm wondering if you have looked at the text on these two monitors side-by-side (or one immediately after the other) to compare the sharpness/crispness? Do you notice any difference in eye strain when reading text? Does the sharper and crisper text on the BenQ lead to easier on screen reading for you?

Backlight bleed on the FPD2485WH was obvious on all four corners of the screen upon it first being turned on but mostly faded out after the panel warmed up for a bit. As for the BenQ, well its perfect... No bleed at all that I can see.
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I didn't notice any significant backlight bleed on either the LG or Gateway.

One area the BenQ looses out to the Gateway is its implementation of the OSD controls.
I really like the ease of use on the FPD2485WH here. Those touch sensitive controls are great compared to the fairly hidden side panel mounted buttons of the BenQ.
Click to expand...

Yes, I love the Gateway OSD controls too. The LG controls hidden on the bottom are harder for me to use.

Thanks again! Please keep the reviews coming!
 
Bummer. So I finally gave up on my 24" Gateway as a gaming monitor because of the inverse ghosting issue.

Went out today and purchased a HP w2207. It has zero inverse ghosting, a nice glossy screen (glare doesn't concern me) and clean text. Gonna hold on to the Gateway as a secondary PC screen because of the high resolution, but I'm glad to rid myself of the inverse ghosting. The only downside is the slightly stretched aspect ratio on 720p/1080i material, though it does have a menu option to adjust it ("fill to aspect" - have to play around with it more).
 
mrgerber said:
Thanks for posting your comparison here. I read someplace that the LG and BenQ are both using the same AU Optronics panel, but I'm not sure if that is true.



As I posted above, the blacks also seem darker on the Gateway compared to the LG. However, I also wrote that the LG crushed the blacks more, but now I would say they are about the same. It seems to depend on how they are adjusted. For the LG, the brightness can be raised to resolve lots of black detail, but that reduces the depth (darkness) of the blacks. For the Gateway, slightly off-center viewing angles seem to produce more black detail, but since the brightness can be cranked up (I run 90) without losing black depth, I get decent detail head on too.

I haven't tried calibrating colors carefully on either monitor besides quick eyeball adjustments to RGB on the OSDs. The skin tones in pictures does seem a little better on the LG.



I do think this is a problem for the Gateway. It seems to be a cause of the dramatic shifts in brightness/color with slight viewing angle changes as well as a degredation of text sharpness/crispness. It does seem that this antiglare text degredation diminishes at greater viewing distances.



Both my Gateway and LG seem uniform across the screen.



I'm wondering if you have looked at the text on these two monitors side-by-side (or one immediately after the other) to compare the sharpness/crispness? Do you notice any difference in eye strain when reading text? Does the sharper and crisper text on the BenQ lead to easier on screen reading for you?



I didn't notice any significant backlight bleed on either the LG or Gateway.



Yes, I love the Gateway OSD controls too. The LG controls hidden on the bottom are harder for me to use.

Thanks again! Please keep the reviews coming!
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Its interesting... the black level detail that I'm seeing with the BenQ is quite astonishing compared to the Gateway. For example, I have a desktop wallpaper that has a lovely shot of the earth and all around it is black space with a bunch of stars. With the Gateway I can easily see the details of the earth and probably 500-600 stars (white dots) around it, now in contrast to that, with the FP241WZ I get the same detail in the earth but there's literally thousands of stars around it! All sorts of detail that I couldn't see before.

My FPD2485WH is a November model so it's quite possible that some things have been corrected in newer builds. I know a few people have suggested slightly better colour, screen uniformity, and improved blacks....Who knows....?

As for screen text quality, There certainly is a difference (I'm comparing both screens side by side). The Gateway is good but the BenQ just looks crisper and more refined. Easier to read for sure (not that the Gateway is particularly bad either). I suspect the difference might be in the anti-glare coating used between the two screens. Possibly even the difference in the panel types used.

I've seen the LG 24" but only messed with one in store for a few minutes. Its hard to say for sure but to me it looked as though (in a screen quality perspective) that it shares more with the BenQ than the Gateway, so its possible that it indeed uses an A-MVA panel. Can't say for certain though.

One thing I wonder about the Gateway is if the Froudja processing is a hindrance in any way. I know Froudja processing has had issues in the past with other devices (black crush being one of them), so it stands to reason that maybe Gateway is using a cheaper form of it in the FPD2485W that may have some less than desirable issues.
 
Its interesting... the black level detail that I'm seeing with the BenQ is quite astonishing compared to the Gateway. For example, I have a desktop wallpaper that has a lovely shot of the earth and all around it is black space with a bunch of stars. With the Gateway I can easily see the details of the earth and probably 500-600 stars (white dots) around it, now in contrast to that, with the FP241WZ I get the same detail in the earth but there's literally thousands of stars around it! All sorts of detail that I couldn't see before.
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Thanks again for posting your observations. I'm wondering if you would be willing to e-mail me the file with the photo of the earth you are using as your background so I can try it? You can send it to [email protected] as an attachment.

Thanks again,
Mark
 
I have that Earth wallpaper on both my Gateway 24" and Westinghouse 47" and have used it on my 37" Olevia and see just as many stars on all three. I really don't think you had things set up correctly if the difference was that astonishing, the blacks are great on the Gateway but so are the whites and brightness levels.
 
Yup, that's the one :)


I have defaulted my Gateway's settings a number of times and used the colour profile listed here as well. I could never achieve the level of detail that I'm seeing with the FP241WZ in dark areas.
Maybe it was a bad panel...dunno...?
 
Thanks for the link Ferris and confirmation Jamie..

I have now compared that wallpaper on both the LG and Gateway (mfg Jan-07). Even after optimizing settings, the LG displays more detail as Jamie wrote. The image does seem more vivid on the Gateway, and the blacks are blacker, as I observed on other images. Also, some of the lost detail on the Gateway appears when I move my head off center and view the screen at an angle. But head on, I just can't get the same detail out of the Gateway.

I have also observed that the sharpness/clarity of text on the Gateway improves when viewing off axis. It seems both the lost detail for this earth image and loss of text sharpness are the result of the anti-glare coating on the Gateway.

As much as I want to keep the Gateway, I will probably have to return it because I need the sharpest text I can get for under $1K. I'm wondering, though, if anyone has any info or experience removing anti-glare coatings on LCD panels?

Mark
 
mrgerber said:
Thanks for the link Ferris and confirmation Jamie..

I have now compared that wallpaper on both the LG and Gateway (mfg Jan-07). Even after optimizing settings, the LG displays more detail as Jamie wrote. The image does seem more vivid on the Gateway, and the blacks are blacker, as I observed on other images. Also, some of the lost detail on the Gateway appears when I move my head off center and view the screen at an angle. But head on, I just can't get the same detail out of the Gateway.

I have also observed that the sharpness/clarity of text on the Gateway improves when viewing off axis. It seems both the lost detail for this earth image and loss of text sharpness are the result of the anti-glare coating on the Gateway.

As much as I want to keep the Gateway, I will probably have to return it because I need the sharpest text I can get for under $1K. I'm wondering, though, if anyone has any info or experience removing anti-glare coatings on LCD panels?

Mark
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I've noticed the same in that a fair bit of more detail can be seen on the Gateway if viewed off-axis.

I'm not convinced that the anti-glare coating used by Gateway is the whole problem, though I'd agree that it doesn't help things much.

The clear protective panel looks as though it's floating freely behind the screens bezel. I notice on mine, it can be moved slightly with my finger tips (gentile pressure applied of course).
Though I really wouldn't recommend taking the whole screen apart as that will void the warranty, besides you risk making a mess of that clear panel if you don't remove the coating properly.
 
There has to be some way to lower this inverse ghosting. I'm starting to notice it's getting worse. At first it wasn't noticable but now the trails are getting longer.

I spent 700+$ on this monitor.. and it's too late to return/exhange it at Bestbuy...
 
mrgerber said:
Thanks for the link Ferris and confirmation Jamie..

I have now compared that wallpaper on both the LG and Gateway (mfg Jan-07). Even after optimizing settings, the LG displays more detail as Jamie wrote. The image does seem more vivid on the Gateway, and the blacks are blacker, as I observed on other images. Also, some of the lost detail on the Gateway appears when I move my head off center and view the screen at an angle. But head on, I just can't get the same detail out of the Gateway.

I have also observed that the sharpness/clarity of text on the Gateway improves when viewing off axis. It seems both the lost detail for this earth image and loss of text sharpness are the result of the anti-glare coating on the Gateway.

As much as I want to keep the Gateway, I will probably have to return it because I need the sharpest text I can get for under $1K. I'm wondering, though, if anyone has any info or experience removing anti-glare coatings on LCD panels?

Mark
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Please don't rip off anti-glare coating on your LCD panel because of this. It wouldn't help you much.

There is an image shift going on that has nothing to do with the antiglare coating, but rather the S-PVA panel inside. Loss of black level detail, while stronger colors on center view, while gain of black level detail and a color wash at merely a 5 degree off center change of viewing angle. Sound familiar? Its not a new phenomena and you can't calibrate it away.

I'm tired of speaking of these issues, due to negative and agressive feedback (though there have been positive responses as well). My intent have always been to raise public awareness and also hopefully make manufacturers improve on this. I might put some info about it in the panel tech sticky later, but I don't want to engage in more discussions about this. S-PVA panels are not bad, so this is said. All panels have their advantages and disadvantages. Imageshifts are one of the disadvantages on S-PVA, as black depth and high contrast is an advantage. Accept it or not.

I'm just posting this now, so you'll at least be aware of this before spending hours trying to calibrate it away or rip off the coating trying to fix this. Read my last attempt to make someone aware of this as well before you do anything. :)

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030899057&postcount=60
 
There is an image shift going on that has nothing to do with the antiglare coating, but rather the S-PVA panel inside. Loss of black level detail, while stronger colors on center view, while gain of black level detail and a color wash at merely a 5 degree off center change of viewing angle. Sound familiar? Its not a new phenomena and you can't calibrate it away.
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Yes, that sounds familiar. Thank you.

I'm tired of speaking of these issues, due to negative and agressive feedback (though there have been positive responses as well). My intent have always been to raise public awareness and also hopefully make manufacturers improve on this.
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Thank you for your efforts. For me, having the best monitor for the money is a higher priority than the computer itself. Unfortunately, the LCD monitor market seems to be out of control with worthless specs, lousy store display configurations, and manufacturer games. Although I am an EE, I have not studied LCD technology, so I am shopping in the dark and wasting a lot of precious time. I don't understand those on this board that criticize others who seek the best monitor for their needs and present their concerns and critiques -- I just ignore the negative feedback as they stand out for who they are.

I might put some info about it in the panel tech sticky later, but I don't want to engage in more discussions about this. S-PVA panels are not bad, so this is said. All panels have their advantages and disadvantages. Imageshifts are one of the disadvantages on S-PVA, as black depth and high contrast is an advantage. Accept it or not.
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Understood and that helps a lot.

I'm still wondering whether text sharpness/crispness is impacted by the same image shift phenomena. Jamie posted here that he noticed a definite improvement in text on his BenQ FP241W verus Gateway FPD2485W, yet both reportedly use S-PVA panels (from Samsung?). Jamie and I both seemed to observe a stronger presence of an "anti-glare coating" in the Gateway compared to other monitors. Of course, I don't really have enough expertise to discern the anti-glare coating from other screen characteristics, so perhaps it's better that I describe it as a prismatic screen-like presence that appears in a focal plane in front of the screen image. Does that make sense? I can also sense this prismatic screen presence on the 24" LG monitor (reportedly a P-MVA); but it is much stronger (more distracting) on the Gateway. On the Gateway, it so strong that when my eyes read text, it seems they have to work harder to stay focued on the text plane, especially when shifting from the end of one line to the beginning of the next.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your advice. If you would be so generous, I would like to know what monitor (or panel technology) you would recommend for me (~24", < $1K) if text clarity and sharpness for long hours of reading is my highest priority?

Thanks again,
Mark
 
mrgerber said:
I'm still wondering whether text sharpness/crispness is impacted by the same image shift phenomena. Jamie posted here that he noticed a definite improvement in text on his BenQ FP241W verus Gateway FPD2485W, yet both reportedly use S-PVA panels (from Samsung?).
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The BenQ uses an AU Optronics P-MVA panel, not a Samsung S-PVA. It's the same P-MVA panel that's used in the LG L246wp. So that may explain some of the difference.
 
Bootstrap is correct, the BenQ FP241WZ uses the AU Optronics P-MVA panel.


I've closely compared text sharpness and readability on both panels side-by-side and there's no question the BenQ handles text better. The same document split between the two screens look's somewhat fuzzy on the Gateway (slightly bolded) whereas the BenQ is very crisp. This was using DVI-I connections to both screens from an 8800GTX.

The Gateway might have an advantage if you are going to be sitting farther away from the screen for something other than normal PC use.


I have to admit, having dual 24" screens is pretty nice!
It's going to be hard tonight when my friend comes to pick-up the Gateway :(

Maybe... just maybe, I'll consider getting another BenQ to go with this one.
 
Wow, thanks for the correction on the BenQ panel.

I'm wondering where you have found the best deal to buy your BenQ?

Also, since the BenQ and LG seem to use the same panel, why did you choose the BenQ, which costs a bit more, over the LG?
 
I tried talking to Gateway about the inverted ghosting and all they did was offer a replacement. =(

Should I stick with this december model or try for the feb. model?

Does the feb. version improve the inverted ghosting at all?
 
Everyone once in a while my monitor will flicker like crazy playing games. If I turn off CCC A.I. it goes away. Any ideas?

I still have time to exchange it.


Flicker
 
mrgerber said:
I'm wondering where you have found the best deal to buy your BenQ?

Also, since the BenQ and LG seem to use the same panel, why did you choose the BenQ, which costs a bit more, over the LG?
Click to expand...



-- I'm in Canada (Toronto, Ont.) and got my BenQ at Canada Computers for $862.39 CDN.
http://www.canadacomputers.com/

There's only a small number of places around here that seem to carry the 24" BenQ's, and those that do are charging upwards of $900 for the WZ. I got mine for the same price that many shops are charging for the W's.


-- Why did I get the BenQ over the LG? Simple really.. While the main use of this screen will be for everyday PC work/browsing/gaming/watching movies etc..., I do plan to hook up other components to it down the road. Maybe an Xbox360 or PS3 or whatever...
The BenQ affords more flexibility in this area as it has more inputs as well as better scailing options.
 
So can we say that unlike the other Gateway widescreen monitors, that the 24-inch is a bust due to inverted ghosting? The 24-inch monitor that have no problems or very minimum problems are actually the "wrong" ones meaning those are the anomolies. The inverted ghosting are being made with the monitors.

I am stuck with a $679 paper weight on my floor....

I have no idea how lcd monitors are manufactured and what quality controls are done in the manufacturing level and in the "release" level. But Gateway really needs to examine the 24-inch monitors on all monthly models.

Thoughts?
 
No, I don't agree with that at all actually. Read the other 24" threads, IMO, especially for console and PC games, the Gateway is still one of the best all around 24" monitor.
 
mrgerber said:
I'm still wondering whether text sharpness/crispness is impacted by the same image shift phenomena. Jamie posted here that he noticed a definite improvement in text on his BenQ FP241W verus Gateway FPD2485W, yet both reportedly use S-PVA panels (from Samsung?). Jamie and I both seemed to observe a stronger presence of an "anti-glare coating" in the Gateway compared to other monitors. Of course, I don't really have enough expertise to discern the anti-glare coating from other screen characteristics, so perhaps it's better that I describe it as a prismatic screen-like presence that appears in a focal plane in front of the screen image. Does that make sense? I can also sense this prismatic screen presence on the 24" LG monitor (reportedly a P-MVA); but it is much stronger (more distracting) on the Gateway. On the Gateway, it so strong that when my eyes read text, it seems they have to work harder to stay focued on the text plane, especially when shifting from the end of one line to the beginning of the next.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your advice. If you would be so generous, I would like to know what monitor (or panel technology) you would recommend for me (~24", < $1K) if text clarity and sharpness for long hours of reading is my highest priority?

Thanks again,
Mark
Click to expand...

Thank you for your words. I'm happy that some find the information useful. :)

Antiglare coating usually manifests itself as a fine layer of grainyness over the display. The prismatic presence you see, is due to the crystal alligment of the panel matrix. Others often describe it as a "3d effect". I also find this stronger on S-PVA then S-MVA/P-MVA panels.

It seems you are sensitive to image consistency, so it limits your choices in screens (I have the same problem).
For viewing angles, I'd like to divide the panels into 2 categories; normal and extreme angles.
Normal angles:
(S, AS, H, DD)-IPS, TN (There is a slight darkening vertically at certain angles, but great horizontal angles), MVA, S-PVA.
Extreme angles:
IPS, S-PVA, MVA, TN

For long text readings, I'd advice IPS or TN due to image consistency. If image consistency wouldn't be intrusive for you, I'd advice S-PVA (the gateway you have would be a good option here) or MVA over TN and IPS due to deep black and high contrast.

TN's only come so far up to 22" @ 1680x1050 (though a 24" is rumoured to come). They are the cheapest panels to buy. They don't have as good colors as the other panels though.
IPS screens come in up to 30", but are usually expensive compared to the others. You have them also in 23" with 1920x1200 (Phillips and Apple are the ones still having them).
Go into a store and check out IPS and TN screens.

There are also some tweaks that helps with text on any screen.

First of all, most screens are too bright to read text over longer period of time.
Lower brightness to a comfortable level. It might seem "off" at first, but you'll adjust to it after using it for a while. Adjust contrast aftwards if you have this option on screen.
Raise color temperature to match the lightning in your room, so that white becomes more white. (6500K is a good starting point). You find this control in your screens menu usually under color.

If you use XP, there are options here too:
Font size:
display settings -> Settings ->advanced under tab "general" increase DPI to 120 or other to make text larger.
Cleartype tuner:
go to display settings -> appearance -> effects and turn on ClearType
enter here and either use the online version or MS powertoy
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cleartype/tuner/Step1.aspx

These are basic tweaks for text. :)

Best of luck! :)
 
Ferris23 said:
No, I don't agree with that at all actually. Read the other 24" threads, IMO, especially for console and PC games, the Gateway is still one of the best all around 24" monitor.
Click to expand...

I agree if your main use is for console gaming, then I think the Gateway fits the bill nicely.
(would be nice if it had an extra digital input though).

For more serious PC use I think the BenQ & LG screens offer up better quality.
 
jamiee said:
I agree if your main use is for console gaming, then I think the Gateway fits the bill nicely.
(would be nice if it had an extra digital input though).

For more serious PC use I think the BenQ & LG screens offer up better quality.
Click to expand...

Yeah I can agree with that, although reading through the BenQ thread I hesitate to use the word quality. Sharper text possibly but that monitor has it's fair share of issues as well, I mean how many firmware releases is it going to take to get that thing right?

Again my primary reason for buying the Gateway was for it's awesome functionality with consoles, PS3, 360 and Wii all scale properly without issue (at least on most, there is one guy that had an issue with his 360 @ 1080p, but that was the first I heard of that)

If I were strictly buying a display for PC use I would have gotten the LG due to it's brick and mortar availability. The BenQ seems like a great display in terms of output, but I think it leaves a lot to be desired in terms of overall quality (scaling issues, blackouts, color issues over VGA etc). Especially because of it's price over the other 24" displays.

The bottom line here is that there is no perfect 24" monitor, it all comes down to what you need to do with it.
 
Antiglare coating usually manifests itself as a fine layer of grainyness over the display. The prismatic presence you see, is due to the crystal alligment of the panel matrix. Others often describe it as a "3d effect". I also find this stronger on S-PVA then S-MVA/P-MVA panels.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for all your help. I also read some of the LCD references from your older post and found them very helpful.

Yes, the effect I am sensing stronger on the Gateway S-PVA than on the LG MVA could be described as a 3-D effect. It's good to know that it's not the result of the anti-glare coating but is inherent in S-PVA panels so I won't waste further time evaluating other S-PVA monitors (such as the Dell 2407). Thank you once again for this valuable help!

I wear glasses to correct for an astigmatism, and the frames have become a bit loose causing them to shift a little out of alignment with my astigmatism. When I tweak my frames so they align exactly with my astigmatism, the 3-D effect on the Gateway becomes less distracting, even though the text is still not quite as crips as on the LG. (My wife doesn't wear glasses, and she also thinks the text is somewhat sharper on the LG.) So, it looks like the tradeoff is exactly as you wrote: S-PVA with deeper blacks, but a bit more 3-D distraction causing slighly less sharp text or the LG/BenQ MVA with crisper text but shallower blacks.

Oh the tradeoffs .... then there's that inverted ghosting that so many have reported on the Gateway FPD2485W that may impact me some day if I ever have time to play games again (without causing my wife to divorce me) versus the awesome Gateway OSD controls and decent sounding speaker bar that takes another piece of clutter off my desk.

Thanks again,
Mark
 
Could anyone please give me some information on the latest version of the gateway monitor? I'm still wondering if I should send this december model back to gateway and getting a newer version instead.
 
I just got back from Best Buy with a March panel, MHX73. On the outside of the box the carton label is green as opposed to orange for the earlier panels. Also the manuals and instructions were changed from a green color theme to a black one.

So far it looks perfect, no noticible inverse ghosting or backlight bleed and no buzzing. The firmware version is the same as the later Feb. panels, GA5.5. It has no problem displaying 1080p from a VGA port (I used a PC and set 1920x1080 custom res).

I've only had this panel on for 30 minutes so maybe it could develop problems after heating up. I will post an update later...

After going through SIX panels at 3 local retailers I think I've finally found a keeper... I guess I am a devil customer.
 
I've only had this panel on for 30 minutes so maybe it could develop problems after heating up. I will post an update later...
Click to expand...

Thanks, and please do keep us posted! Not many people have experience with the latest revision.

Mark
 
"The bottom line here is that there is no perfect 24" monitor, it all comes down to what you need to do with it."


-- Very true! There simply is no perfect LCD of any size that I've seen. In the end you need to chose your screen based on it use and also what flaws (lacking's) you can live with.


BTW, today I went out and bought the ColourVision Spyder2Express.
Wow! talk about $81.00 CDN well spent.
It was easy to setup and run. The calibration process took maybe 5-6 minutes and the results are fantastic.
Great tool to have around!
 
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