GameStop Stock keeps going up no end in sight

Looking at this as a fun gambling exercise is one thing, but lets not forget that this kind of vulture investment and other market games - and lets face it, a fuckload of our late-stage capitalist hellscape nonsense - does immense harm to society in other ways, raises banking and investment oligarchs that contribute little to no real productive work to the economy, and further exploit the majority. These kinds of investment shell-games are predicated on being obtuse enough that those involved can keep saying "We're doing very complex things here you see, we're very smart. Better just leave us alone or else... nice little economy you have there, pity if something were to happen to it..." . Its literally a casino and the house (meaning the big banks and investment firms- who make money no matter what) always win; occasionally some peon being able to make a return and/or occasionally "win" doesn't mean that its a good system, no more so than a lottery and worse, many get hurt along the way. All this activity doesn't mean that somehow Gamestop will stay open longer, its employees will be paid better, some revolutionary new product or service will come out of it - its just picking at the bones.

Worse, those involved and profiting in this system typically put their money into making things worse for the rest of us and further maximizing their millions/billions on the process. The sooner we can come down on this kind of nonsense, high frequency trading, and more - the better. I'd easily give up the ability to make a relatively small return (compared to those banks and investment firms that control everything, large businesses etc) on what is essentially a casino siphoning money towards greater income inequality while doing harm, for economic democracy that benefits all involved.

Edit: Watching the big investment firms and analysts is sickening. They're generally claiming that "Oh see, look see the little people can squeeze us huge fiscal managers! Clearly this means we don't need any regulation, all we need is for a huge cohesive group of independent small investors to do this again and again, in perpetuity and clearly that will keep us in check"
 
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What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

Make no mistake - this is about the "little guys" banding together on manipulation. Hypocritical that all the sudden it's bad where as when the "big guys" do it - it's wall st business as usual. Meanwhile big investment firms lock out the little guy to prevent further action. Such hypocrisy.
 
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The big hedge funds are already getting cash bailouts from their friends. So ya no need for insurance... their friends do not want them to fail... and the Gov and wall street both don't want this to become a bigger story by bailing out billionaire bingo. Or worse having people actually looking closer at how all this really works. (it isn't as complicated as it looks, in the same way the shell game isn't magic) No one wants the average people to see how the short selling hedge funds are actually funded. If your curious just pay attention to who is bailing them out. Bankruptcy accounting is a NO GO. lol Its all a graft designed to move billions around when it needs moved.
Well I expect the hedge funds will be selling their good stock as well, driving down prices in general to cover their losses. So more than just them losing. How this plays out ? Does not look good overall for people confidence in risking their capital in the stock market, a pullback? Domino effect? Who knows.
 
If these things end the shorting on the big obvious fails... good.

I am laughing my ass off short seller getting killed.



I see many comments of the sorts, can I ask people what is bad on people shorting "obvious" fails (I doubt they are as obvious has they make it sound or all those people would be doing the same). It sound pretty much always high risk, finite gain with infinite lost possible.

Is there any study that show that the habit of shorting company has a net negative impact on market efficiency ?

https://www.capmktsreg.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CCMR-Statement-on-Short-Selling.pdf
Stocks in the top 10% of shorting activity by volume incorporate new fundamental information into current stock prices at double the speed of stocks in the bottom 10% of shorting activity

What is the reason people have for wanting short seller to disappear ?
 
I see many comments of the sorts, can I ask people what is bad on people shorting "obvious" fails (I doubt they are as obvious has they make it sound or all those people would be doing the same). It sound pretty much always high risk, finite gain with infinite lost possible.

Is there any study that show that the habit of shorting company has a net negative impact on market efficiency ?

https://www.capmktsreg.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CCMR-Statement-on-Short-Selling.pdf
Stocks in the top 10% of shorting activity by volume incorporate new fundamental information into current stock prices at double the speed of stocks in the bottom 10% of shorting activity

What is the reason people have for wanting short seller to disappear ?

Not an expert, but from what I understand some of these large hedge companies do not just short predictively, they communicate with other hedge companies, short the stock, and all start aggressively announcing that the company they just shorted is going downhill. Anybody watching any sort of stock news will see "experts" talking about how the company stock is overvalued, and then everyone else sells off the stock, which causes the value to fall.

Basically, the complaint is that they aren't predicting, they are causing the stock to fall. Again, from what I understand.
 
I see many comments of the sorts, can I ask people what is bad on people shorting "obvious" fails (I doubt they are as obvious has they make it sound or all those people would be doing the same). It sound pretty much always high risk, finite gain with infinite lost possible.

Is there any study that show that the habit of shorting company has a net negative impact on market efficiency ?

https://www.capmktsreg.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CCMR-Statement-on-Short-Selling.pdf
Stocks in the top 10% of shorting activity by volume incorporate new fundamental information into current stock prices at double the speed of stocks in the bottom 10% of shorting activity

What is the reason people have for wanting short seller to disappear ?

You’re selling something you don’t own and have no stake in with the hopes of buying it back later at a lower cost so you can return it to the real owner while making a buck in the process. Not only do you KNOW someone has to lose for you to gain, but you’re HOPING and even actively working to make sure they do.
 
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The Gamestop business model is dead. It was killed off by the console makers, etc. with the push to digital purchases. As soon as you have an all digital console, Gamestop will be bankrupt.

I think the plan is to make a digital selling platform. Like Green Man Gaming and Steam/Epic for PC. Suppose the digital store can work if competitive, but I am doubting that. For any type of client again, doubt it. No one wants to install a client unless there is a game that forces people to (Half Life 2/Battlefield 3/Fortnite).

Selling PC hardware is already a thing, or was. I saw over priced GPUs there years ago. 4 or so years back they had EVGA cards. Doubt it will do well. All the B&M computer stores went out of business, including Frys, for a reason.
 
Not an expert, but from what I understand some of these large hedge companies do not just short predictively, they communicate with other hedge companies, short the stock, and all start aggressively announcing that the company they just shorted is going downhill. Anybody watching any sort of stock news will see "experts" talking about how the company stock is overvalued, and then everyone else sells off the stock, which causes the value to fall.

Basically, the complaint is that they aren't predicting, they are causing the stock to fall. Again, from what I understand.
It's muddy, as directly influencing it is against the law, but you can sure put out a whole pile of info saying "here's WHY I shorted" and have people believe you. Same thing that Reddit did to boost it - "here's why I think it's undervalued!" and boom, up she goes.
 
I see many comments of the sorts, can I ask people what is bad on people shorting "obvious" fails (I doubt they are as obvious has they make it sound or all those people would be doing the same). It sound pretty much always high risk, finite gain with infinite lost possible.

Is there any study that show that the habit of shorting company has a net negative impact on market efficiency ?

https://www.capmktsreg.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CCMR-Statement-on-Short-Selling.pdf
Stocks in the top 10% of shorting activity by volume incorporate new fundamental information into current stock prices at double the speed of stocks in the bottom 10% of shorting activity

What is the reason people have for wanting short seller to disappear ?
Short sellers on the scale we have today purposely TANK companies that could be saved. Now we can debate gamestop being savable or not... that isn't the main question, they are just the current example. Short selling a bit here and there isn't a problem. However when billions of dollars get bet against a company, its over. The idea of getting new investors or doing much of anything goes out the window. Then the leadership cash in themselves. There is a reason most big companies that go under the last 20 years end up paying their CEOs and other leaders 10s of millions on their way out the door to manage the corpse. I mean why not it becomes clear early that the ship is going down, and the massive WS hedge funds come and sit a few billion tons of money on top of the whole thing to ensure it sinks as fast as possible. The problem is the massive amounts of resources they can use to tank a struggling company. Profiting off the losses of 10s of thousands of jobs.... by ensuring they happen faster. Ya screw those folks.
 
You’re selling something you don’t own and have no stake in with the hopes of buying it back later at a lower cost so you can return it to the real owner while making a buck in the process. Not only do you KNOW someone has to lose for you to gain, but you’re HOPING and even actively working to make sure they do.
I understand the concept.

The broker from which I own my stock is approched by someone that tell him, for a small fee give me a stock and I guarantee I will give it back to you in a maximum of 15 days.

They sell it right away and bet on the ability to significantly be able to rebuy it at a lower price to give it back.

It seem people add the morality of hoping a stock go down has a bigger deal than it is, actively working to make sure they do sound illegal and that part for sure would be bad.

In the example cited too, it seem to be short made betting on fundamentals not needing market manipulation.

Not an expert, but from what I understand some of these large hedge companies do not just short predictively, they communicate with other hedge companies, short the stock, and all start aggressively announcing that the company they just shorted is going downhill.
That sound illegal, like for pushing stock up they just bought with the intention to resell after an uptick no ?

but you can sure put out a whole pile of info saying "here's WHY I shorted"
For small influenceable title or oil, gold, index, giant company ?
 
Short sellers on the scale we have today purposely TANK companies that could be saved. Now we can debate gamestop being savable or not... that isn't the main question, they are just the current example. Short selling a bit here and there isn't a problem. However when billions of dollars get bet against a company, its over. The idea of getting new investors or doing much of anything goes out the window. Then the leadership cash in themselves. There is a reason most big companies that go under the last 20 years end up paying their CEOs and other leaders 10s of millions on their way out the door to manage the corpse. I mean why not it becomes clear early that the ship is going down, and the massive WS hedge funds come and sit a few billion tons of money on top of the whole thing to ensure it sinks as fast as possible. The problem is the massive amounts of resources they can use to tank a struggling company. Profiting off the losses of 10s of thousands of jobs.... by ensuring they happen faster. Ya screw those folks.
Much like many PE firms. Which needs to be regulated, IMHO, because it's bullshit tactics.
 
Short sellers on the scale we have today purposely TANK companies that could be saved.
Reading about it, yes it seem they can sell so much stock that it would influence the price without even having to make the convince people about it stuff.

But short sellers is a good way to have hound around trying to find market flaw, and flash out the Enron of the world and other fraudster.

If a company price is actually following is fundamental, it must be hard to be attacked by short sellers, GameStop seem a good example of a company that should close and is "stealing" opportunity from the market by continuing to attract capital and trying to squeeze out what is left.

I think with European markets having often no shorts selling laws, comparison could be made to look if they are a significant net good or bad, or if the hates is in good part driven by the morality of betting on something going down.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2710371
In both the subprime crisis and the eurozone crisis, regulators imposed bans on short sales, aimed mainly at preventing stock price turbulence from destabilizing financial institutions. Contrary to the regulators’ intentions, financial institutions whose stocks were banned experienced greater increases in the probability of default and volatility than unbanned ones, and these increases were larger for more vulnerable financial institutions.
 
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Artificial inflation, Etsy stock did this too when Elon Musk tweeted about them. Don't fall for it.
 
I got in at $39 thinking it was just some BS but there is some solid DD on the short float and all that.
 
You’re selling something you don’t own and have no stake in with the hopes of buying it back later at a lower cost so you can return it to the real owner while making a buck in the process. Not only do you KNOW someone has to lose for you to gain, but you’re HOPING and even actively working to make sure they do.
To top it off, I think they found out 130% of the stock was shorted (unsure how you short more than exist).

So, these folks that have to buy back what they owe are not paying their original price, the have top pay $347 per share now. If I am right (or his is not my area of expertise) that puts those short sellers in a deep hole.
 
To top it off, I think they found out 130% of the stock was shorted (unsure how you short more than exist).

So, these folks that have to buy back what they owe are not paying their original price, the have top pay $347 per share now. If I am right (or his is not my area of expertise) that puts those short sellers in a deep hole.
I sure they have it worked out to minimize any risk of loss.
 
To top it off, I think they found out 130% of the stock was shorted (unsure how you short more than exist).

So, these folks that have to buy back what they owe are not paying their original price, the have top pay $347 per share now. If I am right (or his is not my area of expertise) that puts those short sellers in a deep hole.

Let's say you have a share and lend it to me, and I sell it. Whoever buys that share can also lend it to me, and I can sell it too. Now there was one share, and I've sold it short twice. If the price goes down, great for me. If the price goes up, bad for me. If everyone sees the price going up and says, yay, great time to buy, really bad for me, because buying the first share to return is going to increase the price of the second share to return.

If there's like three different people who each think the company is doomed and short 40% of the shares, there's your 120% shorted. Of course, the first person to close their short position will take a big loss at the time, and probably relieve the pressure for the rest of the shorts; selling at the bottom and buying at the top doesn't work out so well.
 
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Let's say you have a share and lend it to me, and I sell it. Whoever buys that share can also lend it to me, and I can sell it too. Now there was one share, and I've sold it short twice. If the price goes down, great for me. If the price goes up, bad for me. If everyone sees the price going up and says, yay, great time to buy, really bad for me, because buying the first share to return is going to increase the price of the second share to return.

If there's like three different people who each thing the company is doomed and short 40% of the shares, there's your 120% shorted. Of course, the first person to close their short position will take a big loss at the time, and probably relieve the pressure for the rest of the shorts; selling at the bottom and buying at the top doesn't work out so well.
Margin calls. If the losses on the sheet get bad enough, the "lender" may call in the shares, and you have to pay it back NOW. Which drives the price higher, triggers more calls, and so on. (IIRC).

edit: House call is what it's called.
 
Nope, they ate it. 5+Billion it cost them - the funds already took the loss on the balance sheets.
I’m sure they’ve already found a way to write the losses off on their Taxes so they come out even in the end?
 
"Everyone thinks this will be worth more Real Soon Now" is the basis of many things which have no physical value other than that exact fact.

If you buy into that game, understand the risk that you're buying Hopes Dreams n Wishes, not something with actual value.
 
I’m sure they’ve already found a way to write the losses off on their Taxes so they come out even in the end?
Oh they wrote it off for sure, but not even. It’ll just counter some of the capital gains they’d have otherwise.
 
I’m sure they’ve already found a way to write the losses off on their Taxes so they come out even in the end?
Outside a 100% tax rate situation or some other exceptional distortion, you usually always have a net lost on a taxes write off.
 
How could a Hedge Fund lose if they bought 1 million shares of GameStop, shorted 1 million shares of GameStop over and over again if it drops (maybe recover for another round or continue to drop) but if it went up they already have the 1 million shares to pay it back. No loss other than having to use the original 1 million shares if needed? Not sure if any Hedge Fund does this maneuver or if even legal.
 
How could a Hedge Fund lose if they bought 1 million shares of GameStop, shorted 1 million shares of GameStop over and over again if it drops (maybe recover for another round or continue to drop) but if it went up they already have the 1 million shares to pay it back. No loss other than having to use the original 1 million shares if needed? Not sure if any Hedge Fund does this maneuver or if even legal.
It is, and some do - or at least hold some portion of the shares in reserve as a hedge (or short to cover as a hedge the shares the hold). But if you hold equal amounts, well, any move is offset - you've got nothing in real value. You have to be bear or bull at least slightly for it to make sense.
 
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This is how people were able to make out like bandits after the 2008 recession. They were trying to do it again with 2020. Never let a good crisis go to waste, indeed.
I'm hoping the housing market takes a dump like in 2008. With rates the way they are right now & the economy fixing to fall off a cliff, its looking good! (y)
 
Normally I'm against any sort of market manipulation but this is just manipulating the manipulators so I'm okay with it. I see it as less of a turd in the punch bowl and more of another turd in the turd bowl.

I am curious to see how regulators handle this situation.
Indeed, that's why I use the Old Reddit Redirect plugin that changes any reddit link to link to old.reddit. I consider that and RES essential for reddit use.
One of many Gamestop ruined.

Babbage's, Software Ect., Funco Land...

They are the EA of the brick and mortar store.
Don't forget Egghead.
 
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