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Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

rudy said:
Yes normal people who used to use linux have switched to macs in droves. In my work alone every single linux machine and user which is over 100 has slowly converted to macs over the last 5 years. (each person / small group makes their own purchasing decision this is not some CEOs mandate)

Linux was always the alternative OS you know full of people who hated MS and various other issues. Now not everyone was like that but those people who were like that could go with linux and add to its user base. Alot of those personalities have switched to macs. Not everyone but so many it has just made linux all that much less interesting as an OS. Apples popularity has meant increased support in so many ways these people wont go back for a long time if ever. Apple allows them to run basic functionality MS office without any wine or hacking around, and it allows them to also get most of the linux programs they need running.

This has nothing to do with usability, yes linux is better than it was before I personally run ubuntu in a VM and am happy they have progressed. I have nothing against it just telling it strait with no bias apple is back on top as the alternative to MS and that has hurt linux market share more than anyone else. Even if apple crashes it will be google who replaces them and trust me they will be diverging from their linux roots. All the types of people who used to use linux just have so many choices in google and apple they no longer care to deal with linux. This trend will continue, the only reason to deal with linux now if you are a company is to develop your own OS for some reason. (I am not talking about the server space where linux is still strong).
Click to expand...

Are you om crack or something?

Most Linux users would never consider a Mac. Tgeyd go to Eindows before switching to Mac.

Linux represets everything that is open and free. Apple represents everything that is closed and contrived.

The philosophies of their users are completely different. Besides, most Linux users would be unhappy ona BSD based system. BSD is a pain in the ass compares to modern Linux implementations.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038652892 said:
Are you om crack or something?

Most Linux users would never consider a Mac. Tgeyd go to Eindows before switching to Mac.

Linux represets everything that is open and free. Apple represents everything that is closed and contrived.

The philosophies of their users are completely different. Besides, most Linux users would be unhappy ona BSD based system. BSD is a pain in the ass compares to modern Linux implementations.
Click to expand...

ehhhhh, i think he has a point...

a LOTTTT of web developers that code for linux servers run OSX... that's just fact... overwhelming majority of web devs from pretty much every company besides microsoft uses OSX...

roll into 90% of web dev houses and you'll see apple everywhere, 5 years ago it was linux
 
pelo said:
Although this sounds great the issue here would be that if Valve is doing this for their own console, which would presumably be a Linux-based distro underneath some customized Valve-y goodness, it doesn't necessarily mean that anything DX-based would find its way to Linux. The issue at hand here isn't the platform necessarily, but rather the API that's being used. WINE isn't the answer to porting over DX-based games but rather a half-assed attempt at doing so without really addressing the issue of openGL standardization.
Click to expand...
They're not using WINE, at least not for Valve's games. Valve wants other developers to port their games to native Linux as well.
I'm hoping Valve starts speaking with developers about the issue of DX propriety. Here's to hoping that Linux-based hardware will do just that ;)
Click to expand...
Linux is stuck at OpenGL 3, but the latest OpenGL is just as good as Direct 3D. The problem is that Linux drivers are slow to catching up. Graphics under Linux is just half ass either way.
 
goodcooper said:
ehhhhh, i think he has a point...

a LOTTTT of web developers that code for linux servers run OSX... that's just fact... overwhelming majority of web devs from pretty much every company besides microsoft uses OSX...

roll into 90% of web dev houses and you'll see apple everywhere, 5 years ago it was linux
Click to expand...

Where do you get this? If you're into linux you have 3 reasons for using it.

#1 Cause you believe in an open and free software. Everything else is just evil.
#2 It's free, and free the best kind for companies.
#3 Just wanna stay away from Microsoft and Apple cause you don't trust them. ESPECIALLY APPLE.
 
Ashbringer said:
Where do you get this? If you're into linux you have 3 reasons for using it.

#1 Cause you believe in an open and free software. Everything else is just evil.
#2 It's free, and free the best kind for companies.
#3 Just wanna stay away from Microsoft and Apple cause you don't trust them. ESPECIALLY APPLE.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the description of a person that lives in a cave or err...tech cave.
 
Ashbringer said:
Where do you get this? If you're into linux you have 3 reasons for using it.

#1 Cause you believe in an open and free software. Everything else is just evil.
#2 It's free, and free the best kind for companies.
#3 Just wanna stay away from Microsoft and Apple cause you don't trust them. ESPECIALLY APPLE.
Click to expand...

THIS.

most web devs I know actually use windows...
my boss refuses to try linux.

I prefer using linux for dev, it's insanely easier than windows.
You can have your own environment set up and you have a good terminal built in, putty is annoying imo.

If we are talking designers... then Mac somewhat makes sense
 
People complain about NVIDIA linux drivers, but to be honest, if Valve came out and said, we're making a linux Steam Console and using NVIDIA hardware... Guess what happens?

...NVIDIA finally has a huge reason to work on the linux drivers.
 
Brak710 said:
People complain about NVIDIA linux drivers, but to be honest, if Valve came out and said, we're making a linux Steam Console and using NVIDIA hardware... Guess what happens?

...NVIDIA finally has a huge reason to work on the linux drivers.
Click to expand...

that's funny because I complain about ATI drivers
I can't use my 6970 in linux... pretty much doesn't work, even in 2D mode.
my older 4870X2 worked great
 
goodcooper said:
ehhhhh, i think he has a point...

a LOTTTT of web developers that code for linux servers run OSX... that's just fact... overwhelming majority of web devs from pretty much every company besides microsoft uses OSX...

roll into 90% of web dev houses and you'll see apple everywhere, 5 years ago it was linux
Click to expand...

Web Devs?

They ever used Linux?

If they did, they were even considered serious Linux users?

They are pretty much just slightly more technical graphical designers. It's no surprise they would choose Mac.

All the linux users I know are either like myself, serious computer geeks, or server enthusiasts or software developers.
 
ripken204 said:
that's funny because I complain about ATI drivers
I can't use my 6970 in linux... pretty much doesn't work, even in 2D mode.
my older 4870X2 worked great
Click to expand...

ATI drivers used to be pretty bad in Linux, but in the last 2-3 years they have actually become pretty damned good.

The open source ports are actually much better than Nvidias open source linux drivers. You can follow status and support here.

These don't have a lot of 3d support though, so if you want that, you need ATI's FireGL closed source drivers, which are not as mature unfortunately. Nvidias closed source drivers - however - are just as good as their Windows drivers. Stable, capable, and fairly easy to install.

My guess is you were either using the closed source drivers, or you had older revisions of the open source drivers. My 6970's worked great in Linux (though I never treid for true 3d gaming support, as I use Linux mostly for 2d stuff)
 
Zarathustra[H];1038652892 said:
Are you om crack or something?

Most Linux users would never consider a Mac. Tgeyd go to Eindows before switching to Mac.

Linux represets everything that is open and free. Apple represents everything that is closed and contrived.

The philosophies of their users are completely different. Besides, most Linux users would be unhappy ona BSD based system. BSD is a pain in the ass compares to modern Linux implementations.
Click to expand...

Holy typos Batman!
 
xDezor said:
Oh yeah? Well my mom said she refuses to try yada yada... so your point is invalid. what a stupid argument.
Click to expand...

personal experience is all I can go off of... do you expect me to conduct a survey of thousands of developers?
 
Sycraft said:
For graphics the problem is that only the binary nVidia drivers really provide full GL support.
Click to expand...

I suppose you didn't notice in the screenshots that L4D2 was running on "AMD testing use only" in the lower right corner. So that would make NVIDIA + AMD binary drivers.

But honestly who tries to game on open source drivers?
 
Zarathustra[H];1038651018 said:
There hasn't been a major release using the Source engine for a while. I find this odd. There are - however - some indies and mods using it though that should be interesting in the near future. That, and CS:GO is reportedly due out this year.
Click to expand...


Umm.... Portal 2 is only 1 year old, and Dota 2 is coming out this year.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038653122 said:
My guess is you were either using the closed source drivers, or you had older revisions of the open source drivers. My 6970's worked great in Linux (though I never treid for true 3d gaming support, as I use Linux mostly for 2d stuff)
Click to expand...

Ya I was using the closed source drivers, and this was within a couple of months after the card was released. They claimed 6970 support but it definitely has big issues, there were a few threads with people having similar issues as I was.

Might as well try is again since it's working for you, both closed source and open source drivers. Then I can stop using my laptop so much...
 
pelo said:
Although this sounds great the issue here would be that if Valve is doing this for their own console, which would presumably be a Linux-based distro underneath some customized Valve-y goodness, it doesn't necessarily mean that anything DX-based would find its way to Linux. The issue at hand here isn't the platform necessarily, but rather the API that's being used. WINE isn't the answer to porting over DX-based games but rather a half-assed attempt at doing so without really addressing the issue of openGL standardization.

I'm hoping Valve starts speaking with developers about the issue of DX propriety. Here's to hoping that Linux-based hardware will do just that ;)
Click to expand...

Im sorry to break the truth, but Mac OSX Source engine still uses DirectX. They just wrote their own wrapper from the DX API to OpenGL. Saved them breaking Source by messing with the engine's code.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038652892 said:
Are you om crack or something?

Most Linux users would never consider a Mac. Tgeyd go to Eindows before switching to Mac.

Linux represets everything that is open and free. Apple represents everything that is closed and contrived.

The philosophies of their users are completely different. Besides, most Linux users would be unhappy ona BSD based system. BSD is a pain in the ass compares to modern Linux implementations.
Click to expand...

A surprisngly large number of my friends that write software for a job, use mac books with OSX and Ubuntu on PC. they use software that happily runs on both without needing code changes ie Java or other such languages.
 
Ashbringer said:
They're not using WINE, at least not for Valve's games. Valve wants other developers to port their games to native Linux as well.

Linux is stuck at OpenGL 3, but the latest OpenGL is just as good as Direct 3D. The problem is that Linux drivers are slow to catching up. Graphics under Linux is just half ass either way.
Click to expand...

What? OpenGL 4.2 is where its at now. And GL 4.2 more or less = DX 11 with tesselation and all that.
 
Dwango said:
According to Phoronix it's the real deal. Totally native with no WINE. And Valve isn't just porting Steam they're also bringing the Source games to Linux as well.

Makes sense since a lot of the indi games they sell on Steam have Linux versions and if the recent spate of Kickstarter games is anything to go by there will be more on the way. And seeing that this is Valve we're talking about I bet we'll see this out in, what? 2 or 3 years?
Click to expand...


HAs nothing to do with Kickstarter or indie games. This is a long term move for them. They see the end of MS gaming dominance and want to have their own gaming OS ready to roll when that time comes. E3 this year is going to be very interesting.
 
techrat said:
[Citation besides your own anecdotal evidence needed]
Click to expand...


You are joking right? Linux/mac crossover is widely known. The two systems operate fairly similarly. Most consider OSX to be the 'commercial linux', in practice. The only linux users who probably wouldnt use OSX are the ones who follow the Open/Free source philosophy rigidly.
 
The problem is that the BSD command line is atrocious compared to that of a modern Linux bash command line.

The BSD command line implementation in the OSX terminal is atrocious compared to any actual BSD machine I have ever used.

OSX was originally based on BSD, but the underlying Unix base has been dumbed down, simplified and reduced in capability, unfortunately.

I have a hard time believing that any user accustomed to Linux would be anything but extremely frustrated if they had to use the OSX command line.
 
That would be pretty cool if it at least gets as much Valve/Source game support as Mac Steam does. I like having at least some of my games available multi-platform, especially for free.
 
Spire3660 said:
You are joking right? Linux/mac crossover is widely known. The two systems operate fairly similarly. Most consider OSX to be the 'commercial linux', in practice. The only linux users who probably wouldnt use OSX are the ones who follow the Open/Free source philosophy rigidly.
Click to expand...

...
 
pxc said:
That would be pretty cool if it at least gets as much Valve/Source game support as Mac Steam does. I like having at least some of my games available multi-platform, especially for free.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if Valve is going to release a SDK or kit of some sort that allows developers to develop a game that can easily be ported over to Linux/Mac/Windows. Valve will worry about the hosting. The only reason not to make a Linux or Mac port is because you didn't want to use their free tools. Those tools will likely expand onto Xbox 360 and PS3, and future consoles.
 
MavericK96 said:
Ehh...only Source games? Most of them are pretty old.
Click to expand...

Zarathustra[H];1038651018 said:
That I will agree with.

There hasn't been a major release using the Source engine for a while. I find this odd. There are - however - some indies and mods using it though that should be interesting in the near future. That, and CS:GO is reportedly due out this year.

Black Mesa (a source engine remake of HL1 as a free mod) is - if rumors are to be believed - nearing completion.

Dear Esther seemed interesting too.
Click to expand...

Ill list the games that will be updated to work with linux.
Counter-Strike: Source, Half-Life 2, Half-Life 2: Deathmatch, Day of Defeat: Source, Half-Life 2: Episode 1, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2, Portal 2, Dota 2, and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive.

All future games will be on linux as well like the next half life and Richochet 2.
 
Nothing against Linux but what good is a steam client gonna do if we need DX for the games?.....
 
Zarathustra[H];1038655310 said:
I have a hard time believing that any user accustomed to Linux would be anything but extremely frustrated if they had to use the OSX command line.
Click to expand...
The difference is that you'll use the terminal less often in OS X, where we make use of GUI applications. Those things Xerox invented in the late 70's.
 
German Muscle said:
Ill list the games that will be updated to work with linux.
Counter-Strike: Source, Half-Life 2, Half-Life 2: Deathmatch, Day of Defeat: Source, Half-Life 2: Episode 1, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2, Portal 2, Dota 2, and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive.

All future games will be on linux as well like the next half life and Richochet 2.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and most of those games are pretty old. :p Other than DOTA 2 and CS:GO (both of which AFAIK aren't released yet) Portal 2 is the latest one and that's over a year old.
 
German Muscle said:
What was your point in saying that initially? Im curious?
Click to expand...

Just that porting over mostly 3+ year old games is not that impressive. Plus, the Source engine, while a great engine, is starting to show its age and needs a significant overhaul to be current IMO.

Sure, this will be good going down the line but it would be more impressive if it was more than just a few games. Then again, Steam doesn't have control over any other games directly so it makes sense.
 
MavericK96 said:
Just that porting over mostly 3+ year old games is not that impressive. Plus, the Source engine, while a great engine, is starting to show its age and needs a significant overhaul to be current IMO.

Sure, this will be good going down the line but it would be more impressive if it was more than just a few games. Then again, Steam doesn't have control over any other games directly so it makes sense.
Click to expand...

Its better then none isnt it? Its better then just creating the steam client for linux and saying here you go right? The grass is always greener on the other side.

The source engine name is old but its revised and updated all the time for changing needs. It is a modular game engine and does everything Valve needs it to do. You wont ever see a Valve game set the bar for graphics anymore. They don't care about that. Like i said. Any future game titles will prolly be Linux supported as well.
 
Ashbringer said:
They're not using WINE, at least not for Valve's games. Valve wants other developers to port their games to native Linux as well.

Linux is stuck at OpenGL 3, but the latest OpenGL is just as good as Direct 3D. The problem is that Linux drivers are slow to catching up. Graphics under Linux is just half ass either way.
Click to expand...
mate, I corrected you last time as well:

Bullet500 said:
Ashbringer said:
Technically developers are forced. If they see that as a good thing or a bad thing really depends on the developers.

Linux is very behind in OpenGL tech. It just reached OpenGL 3.0 where as Windows has OpenGL 4.2. OpenGL has caught up to Direct 3D, but it's still easier to develop on Direct 3D, due to platforms like Xbox 360 and Windows.

Toms Hardware has some benchmarks that show Linux to be very competative in performance, despite the differences.
Click to expand...
It is in the hands of the AMD/nVidia to support OpenGL 4.2 in their Linux drivers. And yes, they do. :)

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTc4MA
http://peanksoft.webs.com/apps/blog...2-drivers-for-windows-and-linux-now-available
Click to expand...

OpenGL 4.2 is very much there in AMD/nVidia binary drivers. :)
 
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