From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility @ [H]

Pusher of Buttons

Pusher of Buttons

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renz496 said:
if intel want to develop better gpu using other company tech they don't need to license it from AMD. as it is intel already have cross licensing agreement with nvidia. why they want to license AMD tech when they can easily do it with their current licensing with nvidia? and yet intel still not 'adopting' nvidia tech in their gpu but instead keep developing their gpu on their own. that's why some people see this is no different that what intel and nvidia doing right now. intel probably decided to go with AMD once the current agreement with nvidia expire next year because AMD probably charging less compared to what intel been paying to nvidia right now.
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You also realize that right now, with NVIDIA pushing into HPC and the server market, they're ultimately a bigger threat to Intel's bottom line than AMD, right? I'm assuming Intel doesn't want to keep funding the people working their hardest to put them out of business. AMD and Intel both compete on x86 chips and as long as software designers keep making software for x86 there is enough business for both of them. If ARM or GPU technologies take off, THAT hurts Intel's bottom line far more than AMD taking a 5% chunk of the x86 server market. AMD plays in the professional space, but their bread and butter is lower cost consumer grade hardware. NVIDIA is going directly after a market that Intel has essentially owned 100% for decades, and right now has way more R&D budget ot throw at it than AMD. I sure know who I'd think is the bigger threat to my company in that scenario.
 
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CSI_PC

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Hey remember when there was the grilling Nvidia for creating a performance chart that was rather long for what was seen as small gains.
Well this has made me smile.



Nvidia marketing would be proud :)
Cheers
 
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razor1

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funkydmunky said:
What is your logic here? I fail to see any. Are you talking arc to arc? If so your leaving out a few to make your point. If you have one.
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Intel is capable of moving things faster then AMD because they have multiple teams and have multiple processor types in their pipelines. AMD only has one processor per generation being designed because of the resources they have. How can you not see that? That is why AMD was stuck with Phenom and Bulldozer, once they made a choice that was it, 5 years per chip.

Intel on the other hand, has cut down to 3 years per node and 2 gens within that node, that is 1.5 years per gen (now going back to 4.5 gens per node but still maintains the 1.5 years per gen)

How many people thought AMD was going to maintain their lead with Athlon 64? I mean did it even look remotely possible for a 5 billion dollar company to go up against a 150 billion dollar company and think, Intel (150 billion), wouldn't be able to compete? All of AMD's designs came from Intel by reverse engineering and making them better! Even the Athlon's, which were made by a company buyout of Nexgen who reverse engineered Intel's latest chips too, which was the PIII.

Intel screwed up and that is why AMD was able to take the lead. It had nothing to do with AMD. On top of that when Intel went back to their PIII design and updated it they came out with core designs which were already on the market in laptops 1 year after P4's were out. And more updates came with Nehalem once it was ready for desktops.
 
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Pusher of Buttons

Pusher of Buttons

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CSI_PC said:
Hey remember when there was the grilling Nvidia for creating a performance chart that was rather long for what was seen as small gains.
Well this has made me smile.

Nvidia marketing would be proud :)
Cheers
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Oi....I've always been an AMD homer, and I have a RX480 in my desktop....but their marketing for this generation has been almost too much for me. Really all they need to market is: 98% of the performance for 10% less! And people will buy the damn things.
 
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EODetroit

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This is an admission by Intel that they'll never be able to build a good enough GPU on their own. The players in the GPU space is down to two.

Did you buy or sell the proper options to profit from this Kyle? Whenever I read something on Seeking Alpha or a similar site, I know they'd love to have the inside knowledge you just had and wouldn't hesitate one second to leverage it as much as possible (not that I agree with it).
 
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Tyns

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razor1 said:
Intel is capable of moving things faster then AMD because they have multiple teams and have multiple processor types in their pipelines. AMD only has one processor per generation being designed because of the resources they have. How can you not see that? That is why AMD was stuck with Phenom and Bulldozer, once they made a choice that was it, 5 years per chip.

Intel on the other hand, has cut down to 3 years per node and 2 gens within that node, that is 1.5 years per gen (now going back to 4.5 gens per node but still maintains the 1.5 years per gen)

How many people thought AMD was going to maintain their lead with Athlon 64? I mean did it even look remotely possible for a 5 billion dollar company to go up against a 150 billion dollar company and think, Intel (150 billion), wouldn't be able to compete? All of AMD's designs came from Intel by reverse engineering and making them better! Even the Athlon's, which were made by a company buyout of Nexgen who reverse engineered Intel's latest chips too, which was the PIII.

Intel screwed up and that is why AMD was able to take the lead. It had nothing to do with AMD. On top of that when Intel went back to their PIII design and updated it they came out with core designs which were already on the market in laptops 1 year after P4's were out. And more updates came with Nehalem once it was ready for desktops.
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Relevent: http://seekingalpha.com/article/4029144-amd-takeover-barrier-golden-prize-x86-license
 
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Megaslug

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I'll mention one word: Apple

Intel CPUs, AMD GPUs (in the models that have a discrete GPU). Integrate them and even the lower modules get effectively the same GPU as the higher end models, making the software and drivers simpler, and on some models having a built in AMD GPU may be enough to remove the discrete GPU, saving BoM costs and board space.
 
FrgMstr

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EODetroit said:
Did you buy or sell the proper options to profit from this Kyle? Whenever I read something on Seeking Alpha or a similar site, I know they'd love to have the inside knowledge you just had and wouldn't hesitate one second to leverage it as much as possible (not that I agree with it).
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I do not own any tech stocks and think it would be unethical for me to do so.

oROEchimaru said:
Kyle just made AMD a crapton of money, AMD please play nice.
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:) Maybe one day they will love us again. Of course that is very likely going to be on AMD and it building better products for us to report on. That said, we have had nothing but good things to say about Polaris performance on the desktop for the most part.
 
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Tyns

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EODetroit said:
Did you buy or sell the proper options to profit from this Kyle? Whenever I read something on Seeking Alpha or a similar site, I know they'd love to have the inside knowledge you just had and wouldn't hesitate one second to leverage it as much as possible (not that I agree with it).
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Most likely would be considered insider trading as the information wasn't made publicly available.
 
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aliaskary77

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not a lot of money, but bought a few at $2.40 5 years ago with the long term goal to sell at $8. sold 75% of them a few weeks ago at $8.19.

bought some (about 70% of initial shares) again at $9.65 yesterday. the 25% initial purchase I will hold till next summer.

trying to figure out when to sell the new shares to lock in my gains. someone here shorted it a few weeks ago and its only been going up. it can go either way so i dont want to take too much of a risk.
 
Shintai

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Pusher of Buttons said:
I bought 100 shares after the RX480 was released in the summer at 5.11 a share just to say I did....has been looking like a good decision for awhile.
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The stock is only going up due to upgrades on the premise that Intel and NVidia is doing well then AMD must as well. So as fast as it went up it can go down. So plan the exit so you come out with profit.
 
Pusher of Buttons

Pusher of Buttons

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Shintai said:
The stock is only going up due to upgrades on the premise that Intel and NVidia is doing well then AMD must as well. So as fast as it went up it can go down. So plan the exit so you come out with profit.
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Well, they're going up due to years of bad business practices being turned around. They're still worth a fraction of what NVIDIA and Intel are, but they're paying off debt and at least keeping a foot in the race. They've stopped trying to straight up beat Intel and NVIDIA and are looking to compete at the lower level while getting their fingers in every pie they can find. The Intel deal could be great, of course, but they're also in both console systems, they've been closing out a bunch of good sized custom chip deals, they're moving into both Google and Ali Baba's cloud platforms....and they still have Zen and Vega on tap.

They don't HAVE to be better than Intel or NVidia. They need to be 90% as good at 80% of the price. And IF Zen overachieves and actually beats Intel in some areas, look out. AMD stock has exploded in the past when they've had superior products, ie. the early Athlon and early x64/multicore days. Same thing for Vega. The RX480 got them a ton of sales and it's a great example of the model.

With that said, there's room for everyone. I use whatever gives me the best value at the time. Right now AMD CPUs and mobile GPU lines kind of suck, so my desktop is a Haswell with an RX480 and my laptop is a Skylake with a GTX1060....when Zen and Vega come out I hope to be able to re-do my desktop situation a bit. But this is the way MOST consumers are. Not brand driven, value driven. And If AMD can nail their price points there is plenty of room for them.
 
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SighTurtle

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Shintai said:
The stock is only going up due to upgrades on the premise that Intel and NVidia is doing well then AMD must as well. So as fast as it went up it can go down. So plan the exit so you come out with profit.
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Thats not the whole story Shintai. Yeah, if Intel and Nvidia are enjoying growing markets, then AMD, competing in those markets, should be able to get some of that growth, but conversely, AMD is the underdog and at the end of the day, if Nvidia and Intel are doing well, their ability to overstep AMD increases, until AMD can't compete and falls out and that is why AMD's stock prospects have been low as they were. The stock is rising on the basis of the upcoming Zen and Vega launch, a decent Polaris launch, Alibaba and Google data center deals, this potential Intel deal, and Leadership team under Lisa Su that has managed to relieve its debt obligations and financials from overwhelming them short term, and overall, project an image conductive to future growth and competition.

But your recommendation is spot on. Zen launch is going to be the point where people are going to have to decide if holding AMD is a good idea, or if it might just be better to be cautious and pull back.
 
FrgMstr

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pendragon1 said:
kinda amazing what one comment from you can/has cause/d :)
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Well, have to have a LITTLE credibility too. ;) That said, at this time I am still sticking with the tech showing up in Intel iGPU rather than just a deal for the patents. That may change, but I truly do not think that is the plan at the time I got the information.
 
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razor1

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SighTurtle said:
Thats not the whole story Shintai. Yeah, if Intel and Nvidia are enjoying growing markets, then AMD, competing in those markets, should be able to get some of that growth, but conversely, AMD is the underdog and at the end of the day, if Nvidia and Intel are doing well, their ability to overstep AMD increases, until AMD can't compete and falls out and that is why AMD's stock prospects have been low as they were. The stock is rising on the basis of the upcoming Zen and Vega launch, a decent Polaris launch, Alibaba and Google data center deals, this potential Intel deal, and Leadership team under Lisa Su that has managed to relieve its debt obligations and financials from overwhelming them short term, and overall, project an image conductive to future growth and competition.

But your recommendation is spot on. Zen launch is going to be the point where people are going to have to decide if holding AMD is a good idea, or if it might just be better to be cautious and pull back.
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Well the reason why AMD's stock price has gone up, is because of the potential of AMD to becoming healthy again is quite imminent and because the stock was under priced, now if Zen can hold up it will go up to 15 if not, well I think as you stated, its going to fall again.
 
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razor1

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Presbytier said:
I'd hold onto shares till the 12th then dump them before AMD can disappoint us on the 13th.
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I would drop or keep AMD based on leaks, within the two weeks to a month prior to Zen's launch because those leaks will be telling.

The hype also creates a ballooning effect of the stock price, so right now we are in that phase with all that hype.

of course you need to weigh which leaks are credible or not, but that is easy to do if you take AMD's best numbers and go from there, there is enough information they have shared to figure this out.
 
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Pusher of Buttons

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I just hope we're getting back to a time where there was serious competition....I loved the early 2000s of system building. Real competition from good products on both sides trading blows....Athlons dominating one benchmark and P4s another, GeForce vs Radeon....the CPU market is largely stale and has been since the Core and Phenoms were battling. Even if you're an Intel/NVidia fanboy you have to admit the competition is what's made great products. The 1000 series NVidia cards are amazing, they wouldn't have any reason to release that big of a step between generations if AMD wasn't right on their heals. The Skylake/Kabylake....meh....Intel has no real reason to do much there. Haswell is still perfectly fine, and I'm sure Ivy/Sandy Bridge machines are still capable with the right video card of keeping pace. That race needs serious jumpstart.
 
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amdgamer

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oROEchimaru said:
Kyle just made AMD a crapton of money, AMD please play nice.
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Seriously, thank you Kyle. When I bough AMD years ago at $5.50 a share, I had until just recently figured that it was a loss. So much so that I stopped tracking it. Needless to say, I was shocked when I logged in to my brokerage account and saw it trading at $10 a share. In all seriousness though, I just hope AMD will be able to rise once more and bevome a serious alternative once again.
 
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ir0nw0lf

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Kyle, I hope you aren't glued to your phone/email waiting for that apology + thank you combo message from them. :p
 
SeymourGore

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So... is somebody going to die over this information leaking?

I'm imagining Kyle hiding in a ventilation grate as AMD/Intel execs are making their super secret deals. Or perhaps secrets being leaked from Roy Taylor's lips after a successful seduction.
 
FrgMstr

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SeymourGore said:
So... is somebody going to die over this information leaking?

I'm imagining Kyle hiding in a ventilation grate as AMD/Intel execs are making their super secret deals. Or perhaps secrets being leaked from Roy Taylor's lips after a successful seduction.
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I wish it was that cloak and dagger.

And I have a loaded .45 wthin reach at most times, so I doubt I am going to die over this information leaking. ;)
 
rat

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Nauseous said:
i think they are just moving from the intel stuff they were working on to the amd stuff.
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Still unsubstantiated.

There's nothing that suggests this isn't just another patent licensing deal so Intel can continue using their own iGPU designs.

nVidia's expire, Intel licenses AMD's for less.

And even though it's being reported that Kyle 'broke' the news, it's been reported on earlier this year that it would likely happen.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3045...o-amd-for-radeon-graphics-tech-licensing.html

Mar 18, 2016

Intel could dump Nvidia for a licensing deal with AMD as the chip giant tries to prop up its patent portfolio.

Currently, Intel is under a $1.5 billion licensing agreement with Nvidia, which the two companies signed in 2011. At the time, the two companies had spent years fighting each other in courts over patent licensing, and the agreement put all that litigation to rest.

Intel’s Nvidia deal is set to expire on March 17, 2017, and a recent report by Bloomberg claimed that Intel is now looking to cut a deal with AMD instead.
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Did Intel use nVidia's tech in their iGPUs? Nope. Just a CYA patent licensing move. No reason to think the AMD situation is exactly the same.
 
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