From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility @ [H]

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by Kyle_Bennett, May 27, 2016.

  1. jwcalla

    jwcalla 2[H]4U

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    AMD has async compute. What further need is there of discussion? Everyone open their wallets and buy AMD cards now. And when you're done, buy some more. Because by this time next year Jen-Hsun will be shovelling fries at Carl's Jr.
     
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  2. staknhalo

    staknhalo [H]ard|Gawd

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    I wonder how many apologies Kyle has received :joyful:
     
  3. Algrim

    Algrim Gawd

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    Not as many as he is due, I am sure.
     
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  4. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    2.
     
  5. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    I always believed Kyle because he had really zero motive to lie or distort the facts. I wasn't sure if he was going to be right on the money and to be honest i didn't expect him to be this accurate. It looks like his inside info is very legit and trust worthy:). Be nice if his source has good news coming sooner or latter lol
     
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  6. Frank Burns

    Frank Burns n00bie

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    Wow, is the rage still going?
     
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  7. rat

    rat [H]ardness Supreme

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    Since you necroed a thread that didn't have a new post in 6 days, yes...
     
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  8. Crosshairs

    Crosshairs Administrator Staff Member

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    This thread garnered a lot of attention from the outside, not all of it good...
    Those who know Kyle, knew he was telling the truth all a long...but some just cant accept the truth.
    fortunately most of the trolls have gone back under their respective bridges. (AT)
     
  9. EuphoricRage470

    EuphoricRage470 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Seems to me that Kyle really nailed it with this editorial.
     
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  10. Tyns

    Tyns Limp Gawd

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  11. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't think they are getting hosed this I think is a smart long term move. They want to be able to make chips elsewhere. I think they might be shifting performance parts to other fabs like desktop graphics chips and cpus, I think GF should be fine for mobility products and console products and there would be plenty of wafers for those. Also as someone said in other threads they just have to fulfill certain amount of wafers at GF and the payments are only if they don't fulfill their wafer requirements before they make chips at another fab. With upcoming consoles there should be plenty of chips to be made. They might be moving to samsung for their high end stuff.
     
  12. SighTurtle

    SighTurtle Gawd

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    I do not know what getting hosed means, or what Kyle's position is, but AMD is getting a hard hit in money for this deal, at least to my uneducated ears. However, if this means less worthless shit GF chips, it's a lot better than having Zen and Vega sink cause of GF. Who knows, maybe TSMC can do production now. (Is there anything preventing TSMC doing AMD and Nvidia's chips now? Didn't AMD used to use TSMC? All I can think of is Apple's intense demand and large sway could force TSMC to decline orders from AMD, but I can't see Nvidia having that force to do so. Well, TSMC might be too full anyhow.)
     
  13. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yep to this. Has AMD been perfectly stellar in all their release in the last 5 years? Nope. Has Global Foundries done right by AMD over the last 5 years? Nope. Has a lot of the delays seem to come from the fact that Global Foundries is having constant issues with the processes? Yep. Yes, I am an AMD fan but, that does not change the fact that Global Foundries have not done well by AMD or at least particularly well by them for the last 5 years. Also, I guess why should they since they get a guaranteed payment regardless of whether their stuff is good or not?
     
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  14. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq Limp Gawd

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    It would be funny if AMD modified their contract with GloFo so that AMD could make use of the foundry services that Intel is offering.
    Would Intel sell wafers to AMD? Sure, why not? I hear business is a little slow at the fabs these days ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
  15. Darakian

    Darakian [H]ardness Supreme

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    Intel also has a vested interest in having AMD afloat.
    1) It keeps the threat of being broken up for having a monopoly away
    2) It cuts at nvidia who is eating into intel's HPC market
     
  16. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    I wonder how many companies Intel would be broken up into after an antitrust lawsuit if AMD died? If I were to guess there would be:

    Intel desktop processors corporation.
    Intel business processors corporation.
    Intel fabs as this would definitely have to be removed from the main company. Could you imagine Intel desktop division being forced to use GloFlo because Intel fabs were making iPhone chips?
    Intel IoT division where they think of new and exciting things for everyday life. Imagine if those guys could use PowerPC chips or Qualcomm in their designs.
    Intel software.
    Intel graphics.
    Intel autonomous vehicles division.
    etc.

    It might actually be a good thing if AMD died. I'd love to see all these different companies from the former Intel corporation competing against each other. I wonder which would thrive and which would get swallowed up by a Google or Verizon style large corporation.
     
  17. DooKey

    DooKey [H]ard DCOTM x4

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    Intel wouldn't have a monopoly on CPU's if AMD died. There is plenty of competition out there. I guess everyone forgets about ARM. X86 is only one of many. Intel would not be broken up.
     
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  18. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    None. Sorry to disappoint you.
     
  19. razor1

    razor1 JustReason is my Lover

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    IF AMD dies on it own accord, falls on its own sword so to speak, there is no antitrust which is what they have been doing as of late they are turning things around, have to see if their products can match up well enough though.
    If Intel forces the market to enable the downfall of AMD that is the only way antitrust laws can be enforced.
     
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  20. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This has been known since they sold off the fab. They signed an agreement to buy certain amounts form GF. When their CPU sales number cratered in 2012, they had to pay for unused wafers.

    AMD Reports Q1 Loss on GlobalFoundries Charge


    So AMD moved their GPUs to GF so this wouldn't happen again. But it sounds like they're still having supply problems with full RX 480, as the 8GB models are still priced the same or higher than the GTX 1060.

    AMD would rather take the charge now than find themselves stuck on GF for more years. If they sever the relationship now, it costs a whole lot less than taking a charge for unused capacity (like they did in 2012). I was amazed they didn't do this back then, if this was an option?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
  21. razor1

    razor1 JustReason is my Lover

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    it wasn't an option before GF locked AMD in to using their fabs for certain capacity.
     
  22. Daniel_Chang

    Daniel_Chang [H]ard|Gawd

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    I posted awhile back (can't find it) about how one retailer released sales figures showing the individual 10-series cards each obliterating the RX 480 in total sales. The latest Steam Hardware survey seems to show the GTX 1060 selling in a 3:2 ratio to the 480. Based on the 480's general unavailability I'd say that GloFo is the reason. They just can't make enough cards. Even now with more availability the cheapest 8GB 480s are $270 on Newegg, a nice markup over the supposed $229/$239 MSRP. The cheapest 1060s are still $250 and a more compelling product unless you value that extra 2GB of RAM.
     
  23. Darakian

    Darakian [H]ardness Supreme

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    Intel has already lost cases relating to their market dominance and they are fighting an EU antitrust case right now. Intel won't have a total monopoly, but at least in the consumer and server space they will have a functional monopoly.

    Hard to say, the only other monopoly I can think of being broken up is the bell telephone system and that had mixed results.
     
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  24. razor1

    razor1 JustReason is my Lover

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    yeah very few companies have been broken up, standard oil, at&t are the only ones I can think of.
     
  25. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    An old antitrust appeal you mean.

    AMD haven't served a purpose in relation to competition for many years now. They have about the same influence as VIA or one of the other smaller x86 makers. The lack of companies willing to compete has to do with the cost of doing so. Its a lose/lose scenario, both for companies and the consumer.

    ARM manufactoring companies are also falling of left and right in their consolidation until you see very few, if not 1 left. At least for the higher parts.

    People tend to forget that these companies dont sell tap water. But they sell a product with ever spiraling costs that keeps increasing. And when volume doesn't follow in the same rate, or even decline. Then its not so much fun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
  26. Darakian

    Darakian [H]ardness Supreme

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    I mean this one which as far as I can tell has not yet been resolved
    Intel Fights Record $1.2 Billion Antitrust Fine at Top EU Court



    Yes, I think we all agree that bulldozer was a flop. My point from earlier is that intel would rather AMD be alive and competing so that intel can point to them in any antitrust suites that come up. With zen AMD may be back to competition on the CPU front.
     
  27. lolfail9001

    lolfail9001 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Obligatory reminder that anti-trust does not really come up until monopoly starts to behave like an asshole monopoly would.
     
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  28. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    They paid it in 2009. Its just the appeal. Your article says this as well.


    Nobody is going to keep AMD alive. They serve no purpose in that regard. There is plenty of competition from ARM alone if you absolutely need it as other companies.

    And good luck with Zen. ;)

    You know, we haven't had cheaper CPUs the last 10 years after AMD became irrelevant. Consider that for a moment.

    Remember the semiconductor industry, unlike most others, depends on vast amounts of cash flows to stay running. Competition as such is entirely pointless in this segment because its self regulating. No innovation or too high prices both leads to the bankrupt of the producing company. Welcome to dynamic demand.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
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  29. Darakian

    Darakian [H]ardness Supreme

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    Is it not an ongoing legal issue for intel?



    Agreed. Nobody is going to keep AMD alive; intel would simply prefer that AMD stay alive. ARM chips have been bringing the heat to intel lately, but for some reason they don't show up in desktops or laptops very often.


    Can you clarify this? I can buy a full computer for $5 today which I could not do 10 years ago.


    All companies depend on cash flow to stay running and the chip business is no more self regulating than any other.[/QUOTE]
     
  30. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    they did not pay that fine. They paid a fine to AMD in the US. This was EU fining intel on their own. They still have not paid it to EU, they appealed it in 2014 and got denied and they still are appealing it lol..

    The AMD vs Intel was settled for 1.25 billin in the U.S. EU had their own fine against intel later, which they refused to pay to EU until this day.
     
  31. razor1

    razor1 JustReason is my Lover

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  32. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well some sites have been saying that they haven't' paid it. O well at this point I really don't know lol. I guess they if they did why appeal something that you already paid for? Its like serving a sentence and then appealing it. No way EU withdraws 1.45 billion and gives it back, at that point don't know what they are fighting.
     
  33. razor1

    razor1 JustReason is my Lover

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    They had to pay it, once a court rules they have to pay they have a set a time to pay, either in installments or flat out amount by a certain time doesn't matter if they are appealing the decision or not.

    During the appeals process judgement of a case is still upheld.

    That's why if they sentence someone to prison doesn't matter if they are appealing, ya still go to prison in that time lol.

    *this is not a law suit btw, if that is what you are thinking, this is a fine, law suits can possible have extensions on payments based on certain criteria one of them being an appeal, fines don't have that kind of contingencies like placing the money in an escrow while the appeal is in progress.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
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  34. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yes, tech "journalism" is a town in outer Siberia and clickbaits sell.

    The fine is paid long ago. You can find it in Intels financials result too from the time.
     
  35. Ed DeLoach

    Ed DeLoach n00bie

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    I have got to say, RTG would be a huge increase in performance for Intel over the crap they are putting out now, so I think Kyles point about their mistake to take on RTG at this time is a mistake.
     
  36. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    The licensing deal between AMD and Intel is signed and done for putting AMD GPU tech into Intel's iGPU.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  37. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Well that clears it up :p
     
  38. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Interesting. Just for the iGPU as of now?
     
  39. tungt88

    tungt88 [H]ard|Gawd

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    For real? Whoa ... :p
     
  40. Digital Viper-X-

    Digital Viper-X- [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Wait, so is Intel buying RTG? or just licensing some tech for their iGPU?