From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility @ [H]

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by Kyle_Bennett, May 27, 2016.

  1. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    451
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Regarding AMD's claim that they passed PCI-SIG compliance test performed by the PCI-SIG:

    1. AMD selected the card to be tested. There's no guarantee the tested card was identical to reviewed or retail cards, unless the PCI-SIG requires re-testing every time a BIOS is updated, which I doubt.

    2. Volkswagen diesels were programmed to detect when they were being emissions tested and to alter the operation of the engine so that they passed, and no one caught them at it for years. This has happened in the PC space too, with graphics drivers detecting that a benchmark was being run and switching to an optimized set of code for just that benchmark.
    I suggest people just wait to see what [H]ardOCP testing discovers. The delay won't kill you.
     
  2. Daniel_Chang

    Daniel_Chang [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,331
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Comparing AMD to VW in this case is a VERY good analogy (though unproven at this time).
     
    trandoanhung1991 likes this.
  3. linkgoron

    linkgoron [H]Lite

    Messages:
    69
    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    Go over the thread and see what I mainly talked about. The main thing that I criticized was the claim that Polaris 10 was supposed to be a GP104 competitor.
    I don't think that Polaris 10 was ever supposed to be a high-end card (read: Radeon 490).

    The 480 does not have high-end characteristics, just given its size, and I stand by it even more now that we know that it only has 32 rops.
     
  4. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,699
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Kyle did say AMD needed more time to possibly clocks higher and it was going to be hot.
    Drawing more power than advertised says they're artificially trying to get more power to the card to hold the increased clocks, which also makes the card hot with little OC room.

    The journey in futility continues.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  5. CSI_PC

    CSI_PC 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,243
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    I would be a bit wary if using 2 in a single PC as even one seems to draw the limit of the mainboard PCIe ATX slot spec.
    [​IMG]


    The Max figures are not too much of a concern as they are closer to instantaneous bursts with short milliseconds durations, but the averages are if going with 2 cards.
    The consideration is the Mainboard PCIe ATX slot and that it will be shared between both cards.

    No idea how much leeway there is with the PCIe ATX spec after 2004 with motherboards.
    Separately the more recent PCIe Molex PEG 6-pin connector is rated to 8A providing in theory support up to 192W (a lot will depend upon wire gauge/PSU/card circuit rating) but I would not want to push near that myself, what Tom's Hardware measured is high enough IMO.

    I appreciate further information and clarification is required to see if it is a general card behaviour or fault with some cards.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  6. TheLAWNoob

    TheLAWNoob Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    346
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    What if I told you the RX 490 that gets released in October is a 1.6Ghz RX 480 and it will come with 300W TDP?
     
  7. TheLAWNoob

    TheLAWNoob Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    346
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Barbecue tonight?
     
  8. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

    Messages:
    3,521
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Tom's Hardware measures with a maximum resolution of 500ns.

    500ns.

    Overkill doesn't cut it lol
     
  9. THUMPer

    THUMPer 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,338
    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
  10. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,825
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    You know you really have an agenda. At no point he said 170w was wrong. He was saying how the power is distributed. You are right but the way you are handling this is desparation mode. The card is using more, it is out of spec. .

    Whats the harm in waiting a few days and seeing how things play out.? I am damn sure the reviews sites will do their work, realax a little. I think the guy made a mistake responding to you its like feeding the fire, he is stupid enough to do it I think. If I was him I would just shut up and let you go at it lol.

    You are right you won, stop going crazy over it. Seriously man I don't wanna pay 600 dollars for a 1170 next year if there is no amd, lol. I am going to have to charge you th extra money. give it a few days see what they say. You are gonna lose your mind, do some homework.

    I think I need to solve that problem for you brother. HAHAHA
     
  11. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,699
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
  12. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

    Messages:
    3,521
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I aint going crazy! You don't know crazy! Look at my inbox and you'll see crazy lol
     
  13. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,825
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    HAHAHA where? here? Holy shit. Thats how you should know everytime I criticize its because I am probably older than you (in a bad fuckin way that it sucks being 30+) and look at life like an old guy who is like whatever I am not buying this shit so who cares lol. I don't go that far lol.
     
  14. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

    Messages:
    3,521
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Man updating a reddit thread takes no more effort than making a thread here, I've been studying and playing CS games this whole time :D
     
    Armenius likes this.
  15. TheLAWNoob

    TheLAWNoob Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    346
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Is HardOCP main site down? Tried to read the review but won't load.
     
  16. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

    Messages:
    46,548
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    I can't imagine that anyone wants to see AMD fold. That's not it at all. But this just seems beyond stupid. The 1070 is rated at 150W and has an 8 pin power connector. The 480 is rated 150W but has a 6 pin power connector but actually uses more power than the 1070? Why did they not just put an 8 pin power connector on the 480? It just doesn't make any sense.
     
    Armenius, Mav451 and Ieldra like this.
  17. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

    Messages:
    3,521
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I honestly think because it would look less efficient
     
  18. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

    Messages:
    46,548
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Seems to be working fine.
     
  19. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,346
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Review just opened up for me.

    So disappointed in this power consumption from a 14nm part :(
     
  20. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    451
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    If age matters, I started programming and building digital electronic devices back in 1972. Odds are I was soldering and coding before you were born. Ever hear of the Altair 8800? I debugged one of those for a local computer shop when they were new. I remember buying new-fangled 16Kbit DRAMs (200ns access time!) in a tube of DIPs as a teenager.

    So what privilege does age give me here, again? :)
     
    rat likes this.
  21. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,825
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Now that was a fucking stupid move I think. I never understood why they did that. They could have easily avoided this situation. IDK I think they wanted to frickin stop people from overclocking these cards so they can promote AIB cards. Kinda silly of them, just call it a day and set a hard limit in drivers for reference cards and give people fair warning on overclocking that they may go over specs. I think they didn't do the work required in drivers for this card. Seems like there is no control on power on it. They should have set a limit of 150w, I mean after all they are boost clocks. Let it hover up and down, nvidia does this just fine.
     
  22. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

    Messages:
    46,548
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    I'm really having a hard time understanding how AMD creates a part on a smaller process that's getting killed in perf/watt by 16nm Pascal.
     
  23. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,346
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    because they are introducing their brand new GPU on a brand new process in the mid range. They wanted to promote that the card uses less power because of all of these things.

    AMD is trying to hide their short comings with GCN.
     
  24. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,346
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that they made this dramatic process shrink and only cut actual power by 45%. Good card for the price, but c'mon ...
     
  25. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

    Messages:
    3,521
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    When I first saw 170W I swear I thought it was total system power using a stock 6600k or something.
     
  26. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,346
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    lol I don't blame you, I so wanted to believe this was a 100-120watt part...

    How the hell is a 7850 beating it in power consumption!?
     
    Armenius likes this.
  27. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,825
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Stupid part is it is still much more efficient than their last gen cards. Like it is getting twice the performance of last tonga. Kind of stupid move, o well. I need a break from the forums. My eyes are going blind and newegg decided to do a fuckin bi annual inventory and said wont ship until friday. Damn these guys! Got 850 evo and corsair h100i sitting here still sealed waiting for these puppies. Yes you are right no gpu yet lol.

    upload_2016-6-29_19-56-32.png
     
    razor1 likes this.
  28. Ieldra

    Ieldra I Promise to RTFM

    Messages:
    3,521
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Best of luck upgrading :) Don't CF until we see if Kyle manages to blow up his board, all this debating aside, watching kyle blow up his board, no matter the cause, is something everyone can look forward to
     
  29. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,825
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    makes sense then not a big issue. I think most oems will probably opt for 470. That card probably stays within range and its dirt cheap. Probably is epic bang for buck. I wanna see how far that is from 480 in performance.
     
  30. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,825
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Hell no can't even go crossfire I dont do multi gpu crap lol. Thats a mini itx board no crossfire anyways. I eliminated that option from the start. I shall never be tempted to make that mistake.
     
    Chimpee, Ieldra and razor1 like this.
  31. razor1

    razor1 JustReason is my Lover

    Messages:
    9,460
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005

    I would get a better power supply an extra 25 bucks there would get you pretty far.
     
  32. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,825
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Na I read reviews on it. Those are damn good power supplies, fully modular and quiet. Its not cheap by any means. 80 plus gold certified and slim cabling. I never go cheap on power supply that was just on sale. the 650w was the same price as 750. 750 will do me solid for any single high end card. bought all the parts other than gpu, I pulled the trigger after a month of looking.
     
    razor1 likes this.
  33. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,825
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    oh and I decided to go with 6700k. I was like wtf I don't want any regrets after putting it together. I spent the extra hundred just for piece of mind lol. I think that is what people undervalue the most. lol
     
  34. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,346
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    I have a 1TB 850 EVO and a 1TB WD Blue, love this thing, wish I could afford the Pro in this size though.
     
  35. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,825
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    I was going to go 1tb but my last ssd was 240 I went double, I wanted to go with decent ssd. it was either 500 or 1tb but I couldnt justify another 170 jump in price, from 150 to 320. Plus I am very picky on games I install. So 500 should do me solid. I have a fat ass steam library only because suckers always got on those 30 dollar game for 5 and 10 and shit in summer and winter sales.
     
  36. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,346
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Yea, I spent a good week re-downloading my library to the EVO, only filled 300gb's though.
     
  37. TheLAWNoob

    TheLAWNoob Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    346
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Hey Kyle, did you IP ban me or something?

    Hardocp takes a long time to load and when I click an article it says 404 not found.

    I'm on mobile. Can't switch to full site cause ot won't load. Forums works fine.
     
  38. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,346
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    m.hardocp.com isn't working for me, but normal is (on my phone).

    On the PC, normal is working as well.
     
  39. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,295
    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    I see AMD is emulating NVIDIA with their GTX480. :D
     
  40. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,346
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    4870 was like that too, except it rocked the price/perf charts when compared to the competition. This on the other hand... lol
     
  41. stashix

    stashix Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    179
    Joined:
    May 25, 2016