Ford Mustang Mach E Leak: Mustang goes Electric

Lizard Testes said:
Woooosh.
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Nope, I understood your dumb post perfectly well. Sure sounds like you didn’t get mine though!

Here’s a hint: it was a joke. 99% of people can’t outdrive the typical 20 year old performance car’s capabilities at the track, and a balanced 20 year old car like that dude’s M coupe has enough capability to continue to teach someone to get faster for decades. If they’re getting passed by a four cylinder mustang, then they need to learn to drive better, not buy a faster car. It’s always hilarious passing Cayman GT4s and the like in my old “beater” M3 though driven by people who “want their performance cars to be fast” lol.
 
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Just spent 3 minutes filling up the tank in our 09 Ford Edge, then proceeded to drive straight from Detroit to Traverse City while being around 5F outside. Arrived with 90mi of gas to spare.

I highly doubt any EV I could buy right now will match that.
 
NightReaver said:
Just spent 3 minutes filling up the tank in our 09 Ford Edge, then proceeded to drive straight from Detroit to Traverse City while being around 5F outside. Arrived with 90mi of gas to spare.

I highly doubt any EV I could buy right now will match that.
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God, you've just summoned the Tesla shills who will tell you that as long as you're going somewhere there are plenty of Superchargers, you can get enough of a charge in 15 minutes to get you to the next Supercharger. Hey, it's, like, nearly as fast as a gas station!
 
1_rick said:
God, you've just summoned the Tesla shills who will tell you that as long as you're going somewhere there are plenty of Superchargers, you can get enough of a charge in 15 minutes to get you to the next Supercharger. Hey, it's, like, nearly as fast as a gas station!
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Oh boy, I can't wait to stop....and stop...and stop because the nearly zero temp is sapping my range.
 
I dont think anyone on this thread claimed that batteries currently have better energy density than gasoline, or that batteries charge faster than filling a gas tank. Who are you guys responding to?
 
1_rick said:
God, you've just summoned the Tesla shills who will tell you that as long as you're going somewhere there are plenty of Superchargers, you can get enough of a charge in 15 minutes to get you to the next Supercharger. Hey, it's, like, nearly as fast as a gas station!
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How slow are the gas pumps in your region? In my region costco can fill a 36 gallons fuel tank in about 5 minutes including the time to get out, pump, and enter the odometer and how many gallons and how many $ per gallon, and take a picture of the receipt, and then start it and drive away. After this it can do at least 575 miles or over 750 on the highway. Add a minute for the 48 gallon superduty gas 7.3 but it doesn't go as far due to heavier, more drag, different gearing and enough payload and towing to tow all the other things with plates, boat tags, and smaller implements.

Since when is 3 times slower a near competitor? There are also large swathes of the USA where 15 minutes supercharge is not going to cut it.
 
serpretetsky said:
I dont think anyone on this thread claimed that batteries currently have better energy density than gasoline, or that batteries charge faster than filling a gas tank. Who are you guys responding to?
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It isn't? If I was replying to someone, I'd quote them.

It's a comment on the general state of EVs for the foreseeable future. For some reason we should all be happy to get rid of ICE vehicles even though they're more capable.
 
NightReaver said:
It isn't? If I was replying to someone, I'd quote them.

It's a comment on the general state of EVs for the foreseeable future. For some reason we should all be happy to get rid of ICE vehicles even though they're more capable.
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This will change with solid state batteries (and the associated high voltage charging equipment) but those are still about 5 years out from being in a production car. You could also embed electric chargers on roadways with current technology and charge while you drive, but that would be ridiculously expensive to install.
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
This will change with solid state batteries (and the associated high voltage charging equipment) but those are still about 5 years out from being in a production car. You could also embed electric chargers on roadways with current technology and charge while you drive, but that would be ridiculously expensive to install.
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The roadway one has been tried, and it fails miserably in most conditions, let alone just the cost of it. Between road grime, semi trucks beating the shit out of it, etc, it's just a giant money pit and basically does nothing after a short period of time.

I think once there are more chargers readily available the problem will be fixed. The issue right now is that even if you've got a Tesla and can use the supercharger network - There are mainline routes on like I-80 and I-70 where you've got to go quite a distance between chargers, and those chargers are PACKED with people. So great, you can charge to 80% in 15 minutes, but you've got an hour wait just to start using a charger anyways.

Then you couple that with the general piss-poor reliability of Tesla's since simple shit is overly complicated with electronics. What I mean by this is that you've got simple stuff like door latches just shitting the bed, or the charger just outright refusing to work for some random software glitch related reason. I wouldn't be caught dead trying to do a trip over I-80 in an EV unless I was retired and didn't have a schedule to keep to.

The best use i've seen for EV's was when I lived on Oahu. It made sense there, and you aren't doing roadtrips from there obviously. Generally, I think if you want an EV go for it if you don't plan on using it as a road trip car or something that you want to maintain on your own and run for a decade +.
 
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NightReaver said:
It isn't? If I was replying to someone, I'd quote them.

It's a comment on the general state of EVs for the foreseeable future. For some reason we should all be happy to get rid of ICE vehicles even though they're more capable.
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You shouldn't rush to ditch your ICE vehicle right away, and I'm not sure that anyone here has argued as much.

The argument is that EVs are the future (both environmentally and for overall performance), and that we should be preparing to transition to electric. While ICE does still have advantages in some situations, those advantages are shrinking and unlikely to be permanent. The EV-resistant camp seems to act as if the car market now is the way the car market will be for all eternity. EVs will never get better; ICE cars will always be more exciting to these people; gas stations and ICE repairs will always be plentiful.

The fantasy: "I'll drive ICE vehicles until I die, long after new sales are banned! I'll never have problems making cross-country trips, and everyone will marvel at how much 'soul' my car has as EVs have never, ever evolved from how they were in 2022. Oh, and screw the planet."

The reality: "I had to buy an EV in 2035 (possibly earlier) after my ICE vehicle became too costly to maintain, and none of the options I liked in 2022 were available by 2035. Not that I had much choice, as gas stations were starting to close down or convert to EV chargers; I might have been fine for a while, but the end was coming. And it turns out this 2035 EV is just peachy, thank you."
 
I will for one enjoy the whining of mobile cycloconverters that will be replacing all those civic fart pipes on the road.
And living far off any road it will essentially be silent.
 
Mchart said:
I think once there are more chargers readily available the problem will be fixed. The issue right now is that even if you've got a Tesla and can use the supercharger network - There are mainline routes on like I-80 and I-70 where you've got to go quite a distance between chargers, and those chargers are PACKED with people. So great, you can charge to 80% in 15 minutes, but you've got an hour wait just to start using a charger anyways.
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What's your source for this information? All the Superchargers I've driven by on 80 and 70 are usually empty or have one or two cars at them and the only time I see Tesla owners bitching online it's usually about somewhere in Socal.

Regardless, it doesn't apply to Electrify America's chargers which is what everyone besides Tesla uses primarily at least where I live. I've gone on a 700 mile and 1000 mile road trip so far and I've had to wait once for 5 minutes and it was because an ICE was blocking a charger. I've actually had to recently wait MORE to put gas in one of my cars due to morons during rush hour abandoning their cars at the pumps to spend 20 minutes inside the station taking a shit and getting a breakfast burrito.

The Ioniq 5 with the larger battery pack will likely be a very capable road trip vehicle for most. I wish it had about 50 miles more range but it'll add 68 miles of range in 5 minutes or go 10-80% in 18 minutes at a 350 kw EA charger and 350 kw EA chargers are all over the place.
 
Lizard Testes said:
What's your source for this information? All the Superchargers I've driven by on 80 and 70 are usually empty or have one or two cars at them and the only time I see Tesla owners bitching online it's usually about somewhere in Socal.

Regardless, it doesn't apply to Electrify America's chargers which is what everyone besides Tesla uses primarily at least where I live. I've gone on a 700 mile and 1000 mile road trip so far and I've had to wait once for 5 minutes and it was because an ICE was blocking a charger. I've actually had to recently wait MORE to put gas in one of my cars due to morons during rush hour abandoning their cars at the pumps to spend 20 minutes inside the station taking a shit and getting a breakfast burrito.

The Ioniq 5 with the larger battery pack will likely be a very capable road trip vehicle for most. I wish it had about 50 miles more range but it'll add 68 miles of range in 5 minutes or go 10-80% in 18 minutes at a 350 kw EA charger and 350 kw EA chargers are all over the place.
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Just personal experience. The few supercharger points that I drive past, like in Colby Kansas where I then cut up through middle-of-nowhere up to I-80 had people lined up, and the one you'd need to hit after in Kearney were a zoo as well. This was during long weekend in the summer months, so it's going to be max usage, but that's also when a lot of people would generally travel. The one's along I-70 through the rockies have been, in personal experience, a pretty ugly situation as well. I personally couldn't imagine taking the risk doing my 16-19 hour roadtrips that I do, in an EV right now. My cheap Hyundai gets 38MPG, and has about 480 miles of range on a single fill up.
 
Lizard Testes said:
So a couple personal anecdotes.
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Sure, but I drive these routes at least every couple of months and the story is the same. Besides, you can read plenty of horror stories about people doing I-70 through with an EV and the lines.

Had I been driving an EV each time I do these drives over the past couple of years i'd be waiting far more than just the 15 minute time of the charge to 80%.
 
Check this out, what kinda idiot would buy an ICE when stuff like this happens

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Lizard Testes said:
I also like how you've completely ignored everything I've said about non Tesla EVs.

I wonder why
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Because Tesla is the best case scenario. The situation is even worse with the plugshare sites, for instance, and the charge time is even slower. I'm literally giving you the best-case scenario with the supercharger stations.
 
How'd you know they have to regular wait an hour+? You sit there and watch them?

You're full of shit dude. If you want people to take your BS serious provide some actual data not anecdotes.
 
Mchart said:
Because Tesla is the best case scenario. The situation is even worse with the plugshare sites, for instance, and the charge time is even slower. I'm literally giving you the best-case scenario with the supercharger stations.
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False.
 
Whatever man. There's no having a conversation with you. You don't even want to hear what other people have experienced.
 
Mchart said:
Whatever man. There's no having a conversation with you. You don't even want to hear what other people have experienced.
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Hmmm which should I put more weight in, your experience driving by a charging location three times, or my experience actually going on road trips in an EV?

It's a real head scratcher!
 
Mchart said:
Sure, and power goes out and you can't charge.
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Power goes out and you can't pump gas either.

I do 100% of my charging from home. Sure is nice not having to waste my time going to a gas station. It is also nice for budgeting as the price for electricity basically never changes where gas can be all over the place. I also like knowing that I only need to go to a shop once every 2 years or so for a checkup on my EV. Not having to wonder if my battery has enough juice to start my engine is another bonus.

BTW there is an Electrify America at the Walmart where I shop (off of I-70 near St. Louis) and I have never seen it full on the dozens of times I have gone by it. The Sam's Club next to it often has a long line of cars waiting to fill up.
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
Power goes out and you can't pump gas either.

I do 100% of my charging from home. Sure is nice not having to waste my time going to a gas station. It is also nice for budgeting as the price for electricity basically never changes where gas can be all over the place. I also like knowing that I only need to go to a shop once every 2 years or so for a checkup on my EV. Not having to wonder if my battery has enough juice to start my engine is another bonus.

BTW there is an Electrify America at the Walmart where I shop (off of I-70 near St. Louis) and I have never seen it full on the dozens of times I have gone by it. The Sam's Club next to it often has a long line of cars waiting to fill up.
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I agree, it's great you can charge it at home like that.

The gas station complaint (It takes 5 minutes) & not worrying about having enough gas to start your car seems a little silly to me though. Either way, an electric vehicle won't run without electric, and an ICE won't run without fuel. It would be like saying ICE is so much better than electric because if you're a dumbass who runs out of gas/battery in the middle of nowhere the ICE is easier to get moving again because all you need is a couple gallons to get moving again. Like dude, these are the same issues. Either way, don't be the idiot who never looks at their gas/power gauge and gets stranded.

I knew a guy who had a leaf and decided he wanted to drive around Oahu a few years back, and got stranded because he just assumed he'd have enough power to make it around the island. Same dumbass mindset as if he just assumed he had enough gas in his vehicle.
 
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Mchart said:
I agree, it's great you can charge it at home like that.

The gas station complaint (It takes 5 minutes) & not worrying about having enough gas to start your car seems a little silly to me though. Either way, an electric vehicle won't run without electric, and an ICE won't run without fuel. It would be like saying ICE is so much better than electric because if you're a dumbass who runs out of gas/battery in the middle of nowhere the ICE is easier to get moving again because all you need is a couple gallons to get moving again. Like dude, these are the same issues. Either way, don't be the idiot who never looks at their gas/power gauge and gets stranded.

I knew a guy who had a leaf and decided he wanted to drive around Oahu a few years back, and got stranded because he just assumed he'd have enough power to make it around the island. Same dumbass mindset as if he just assumed he had enough gas in his vehicle.
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Not to mention it's super easy to carry a tank of gas in the back.
 
NightReaver said:
Not to mention it's super easy to carry a tank of gas in the back.
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Or just carry a tank of electricity in the back.

Which we could if only those lazy EV engineers would design their cars to run on liquid electricity too and not just on the current stuff.
 
Mchart said:
I agree, it's great you can charge it at home like that.

The gas station complaint (It takes 5 minutes) & not worrying about having enough gas to start your car seems a little silly to me though.
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I was talking about having enough amps in the battery to start the ICE (aka running the starter), not fuel. EVs don't need nearly as many amps from the 12V battery, plus the 12V battery gets charged off the main.

The downside of getting an EV is the high upfront cost but the maintenance is almost nothing over the lifespan. I expect the maintenance (excluding tires and wiper blades) over the first 200k miles to be well under $1000 total for my Mach-E. At my current use, I would expect to hit 200k miles somewhere around 2055 (assuming I keep the car that long). The main battery is expected to last 300k-500k miles. How many ICE can do 300k miles without needing to replace the engine? (not many)
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
I was talking about having enough amps in the battery to start the ICE (aka running the starter), not fuel. EVs don't need nearly as many amps from the 12V battery, plus the 12V battery gets charged off the main.

The downside of getting an EV is the high upfront cost but the maintenance is almost nothing over the lifespan. I expect the maintenance (excluding tires and wiper blades) over the first 200k miles to be well under $1000 total for my Mach-E. At my current use, I would expect to hit 200k miles somewhere around 2055 (assuming I keep the car that long). The main battery is expected to last 300k-500k miles. How many ICE can do 300k miles without needing to replace the engine? (not many)
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Chevy 350 and 6 liter, Ford 7.3 liter diesel, Geo metro 3 cylinder, some slant 6s, Panther platform Fords, other 4.6 liter 2 valve per cylinder and not 3 valves engines, Ford 300 straight 6, Honda D15 and 16 engine families, similar era low compression, not turbo Toyota motors, some of the 360 Dodge engines, Toyota 1UZ-FE 4.6 liter v8. These are just the ones I've seen with high confidence of being over 400,000 miles. Some of these I've seen exceed 1,000,000 being panther platform fords, d15 and d16 hondas, and 1UZ-FE LS400 lexus cars, and a few 300 CID fords. In the case of the Hondas and the 300 Fords it really, really helps to select a 5spd example and not a slushbox.
 
Wade88 said:
Chevy 350 and 6 liter, Ford 7.3 liter diesel, Geo metro 3 cylinder, some slant 6s, Panther platform Fords, other 4.6 liter 2 valve per cylinder and not 3 valves engines, Ford 300 straight 6, Honda D15 and 16 engine families, similar era low compression, not turbo Toyota motors, some of the 360 Dodge engines, Toyota 1UZ-FE 4.6 liter v8. These are just the ones I've seen with high confidence of being over 400,000 miles. Some of these I've seen exceed 1,000,000 being panther platform fords, d15 and d16 hondas, and 1UZ-FE LS400 lexus cars, and a few 300 CID fords. In the case of the Hondas and the 300 Fords it really, really helps to select a 5spd example and not a slushbox.
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And what % of the total ICE cars that make it to 200k+ miles? The answer is 1%. I am expecting EVs to be much higher than that because of so many fewer moving parts. (I tried to find numbers for higher mileages but I couldn't locate any sources for the articles I found so I didn't bother to list them.)
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
And what % of the total ICE cars that make it to 200k+ miles? The answer is 1%. I am expecting EVs to be much higher than that because of so many fewer moving parts. (I tried to find numbers for higher mileages but I couldn't locate any sources for the articles I found so I didn't bother to list them.)
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Lots of cars are owned by people that don't do any maintenance at all if it isn't included in the price up front. It's amazing what a well cared for engine can do if it isn't a lemon. The truck falls apart first but the cummins 5.9 trucks with p pumps too. People that live in the flat bits of the desert that park inside and don't abuse their cars can keep them the longest of all.

The most I've seen exceed 400,000 (by far) is 4th 5th and 6th generation civics with 5 speeds and low compression in places without road salt or the ocean nearby. I personally have purchased 5spd hondas ranging from 90,000 to over 360,000 (about when the odometer ceased functioning) and they all worked fine and still worked fine when I sold them later except the cleanest of them all, the 91 hatch. Cheap parts help too. I looked for a clean unmolested 4th gen for a year and one popped up about 5 hours round trip away. It had 224,000 miles and I drove it home without any niggles. The first ones didn't crop up until it got to half a tank and would not idle, took the tank off and looked at the pump, some dingus had neglected to replace the pipe that connects the pump sock low in the tank instead of halfway down. After that it was just basic stuff like cv axles, upper and lower control arm bushings, a timing belt, tensioner, and water pump every few years. The rest is all easy stuff. I've seen Hondas retain their original head gaskets for quite a range of hundreds of thousands of miles if one is aggressive about not overheating it.
 
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[21CW]killerofall said:
And what % of the total ICE cars that make it to 200k+ miles? The answer is 1%. I am expecting EVs to be much higher than that because of so many fewer moving parts. (I tried to find numbers for higher mileages but I couldn't locate any sources for the articles I found so I didn't bother to list them.)
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Hahahahaha. Imagine my Michigan driven 09 Edge with 210k+ miles is in the top percent.

Their methodology leaves much to be desired. All they did was count the number of cars above 200k miles while not accounting for the year the car was made. So newer cars are statistically much less likely to be over 200k, and programs like cash for clunkers eliminated huge chunks of the older used market.

Truth of the matter is any modern ICE can hit 200k easy. Unless you literally never change the oil, get into a crash, or get a lemon case.
 
NightReaver said:
Hahahahaha. Imagine my Michigan driven 09 Edge with 210k+ miles is in the top percent.

Their methodology leaves much to be desired. All they did was count the number of cars above 200k miles while not accounting for the year the car was made. So newer cars are statistically much less likely to be over 200k, and programs like cash for clunkers eliminated huge chunks of the older used market.

Truth of the matter is any modern ICE can hit 200k easy. Unless you literally never change the oil, get into a crash, or get a lemon case.
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Well, any modern cheaper ICE. An unstressed NA engine with a simple transmission without being burdened with a bunch of stupid driver aide electronics. These cars will last a very long time without having to dump money into them.
 
Mchart said:
Well, any modern cheaper ICE. An unstressed NA engine with a simple transmission without being burdened with a bunch of stupid driver aide electronics. These cars will last a very long time without having to dump money into them.
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It's a shame we're getting more and more of that crap regulated in. Now everything has to be some turbo 4 banger.

I love my na V6. Only "expensive" maintenance I've done was redo the suspension/shafts/wheel bearings. Maybe 1k in parts total?
 
Lizard Testes said:
Check this out, what kinda idiot would buy an ICE when stuff like this happens

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That would be everywhere, or we need ~4x the “gas stations”. We have a decent amount of gas pumps where I live and they have every station full at times.

Or just the parasitic power use in the winter overloads the grid lol.

I enjoy the people in the top 10% with houses and garages acting like their use case is applicable to the masses ignoring a plethra of other issues.

Well, CA mandated electric right? I guess we get to see what happens there first in a few years.

Personally hybrids make sense to me. You get a massive efficiency improvement without the real world draw backs.
 
Dayaks said:
That would be everywhere, or we need ~4x the “gas stations”. We have a decent amount of gas pumps where I live and they have every station full at times.

Or just the parasitic power use in the winter overloads the grid lol.

I enjoy the people in the top 10% with houses and garages acting like their use case is applicable to the masses ignoring a plethra of other issues.

Well, CA mandated electric right? I guess we get to see what happens there first in a few years.

Personally hybrids make sense to me. You get a massive efficiency improvement without the real world draw backs.
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Fun fact, 63% of single family homes in the US have a garage or carport
 
computergeek485 said:
Fun fact, 63% of single family homes in the US have a garage or carport
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And only 70% of people live in a single family home. So 44% of Americans have a garage or “car port”. What percentage can house all their vehicles? What percentage has their houses actually wired to charge these cars? Mine isn’t nor the vast majority of my city.

Nevermind my town already blows transformers more than it should.

There’s a whole conversation about electric cars we ignore.
 
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