Folding pratices guideline

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jebo_4jc said:
hey afterburner, seriously, I'm glad you came over to post.

However, in fairness, I believe it was rcranfield who specifically endorsed the idea of deleting slow SMP WU's a few months ago. I think he recently reversed his position, however xilikon's statement is valid.

We know you have a (mostly) good team, but when your moderator(s) were condoning one of the cardinal sins of folding, it rightfully sparked some backlash from some members of our team, and yours, if I recall correctly (I remember punchy speaking out, IIRC).

In any case, the whole idea here is for education. The past is behind us :)
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Thank you for your response. Still, One Moderator and a few members are not the team. Right? And once educated they got the message and made the changes for the better of the cause right? So why the "Clumping"?

Could it not have been more appropriate to say other in the past from all over the world have done it and we want to help prevent that from happening again by education/information?

Why even mention the EVGA team? This makes it look like no one here or at any other team in the world other than EVGA that had members did this. That is why I got upset.

Would not a few members from [H] feel the same way if we did that to you?

Is this not about all of us? Or is it a vendetta on EVGA?
 
tank1023 said:
In one of the link provided by the OP, I think it was Dr. Kasson who said he doesn't agree with using anything less then 8 cores.
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ok, I think we just need more specific wording. Something to the effect of "If your CPU can't natively meet the minimum requirements for a client, you may not mask the true nature of the CPU in order to force a non-compatible client to run."

Also, this brings up a great point. Has Pande ever made a clear statement regarding their position on running bigadv on i7?
 
Afterburner said:
Thank you for your response. Still, One Moderator and a few members are not the team. Right? And once educated they got the message and made the changes for the better of the cause right? So why the "Clumping"?

Could it not have been more appropriate to say other in the past from all over the world have done it and we want to help prevent that from happening again by education/information?

Why even mention the EVGA team? This makes it look like no one here or at any other team in the world other than EVGA that had members did this. That is why I got upset.

Would not a few members from [H] feel the same way if we did that to you?

Is this not about all of us? Or is it a vendetta on EVGA?
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no, this isn't about EVGA. get over yourself (that's a joke, but seriously :))

rcranfield is a mod. That brings about an elevated responsibility.

Xilikon probably just mentioned that incident, along with BWM, because they are the highest profile, most recent examples of the type of behavior we are trying to address here. Nothing more, nothing less. Sorry we hurt your feelings.

We don't have a vendetta against EVGA other than the one that entails us taking back the #1 spot.

Seriously, though, this thread doesn't need to derail any further.
 
jebo_4jc said:
ok, I think we just need more specific wording. Something to the effect of "If your CPU can't natively meet the minimum requirements for a client, you may not mask the true nature of the CPU in order to force a non-compatible client to run.

Also, this brings up a great point. Has Pande ever made a clear statement regarding their position on running bigadv on i7?
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+1...
 
patchesanook said:
i am computer illiterate and have no idea what this means.i just fold to try and help
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If you don't know what it means then it probably isn't something you have to worry about. We are trying to get some rules in place for people who are tech-savvy and try to do things to trick the Folding@home program into working in ways it isn't meant to work so they can get an advantage.
 
Can we keep the personal anecdotes and info out of this thread? Recalling certain past events, especially with apparent bias, is causing a team rift in this thread. And if there's any thread where teams need to keep things on a neutral ground and work together toward a common goal, it's this one.

Xil, would you mind retracting (or at least editing) your middle paragraph in post #29. There are some half-truths in there that are understandably getting some EVGA folks riled up. There are a lot of members over there right now that want nothing to do with this thread as see statements like that as a veiled attack on the team.
 
where is the bias?

what part of what has been said isn't factually 100% true?

The events that have happened in the past are the exact kind of behavior these rules are designed to dissuade. It is helpful to recall the specifics of past events in order to ensure the updated guidelines properly address those problems.
 
is this going to turn into a bashing thread?i thought we all folded for the benefit to mankind,i did not realize that being number 1 ment so much.i admit i am a noob and under educated and did not realize we had to be number 1 to make ourselves feel better.i fold for team evga and have no ill feelings to anyone i just thank you for folding, a little info for all.my best friend passed away from pancreatic cancer awhile back and i was there with his family in the hospital room.untill you have been there you do not know how helpless you feel,when the alarms go off on the things they have hooked up to him it just breaks your heart,for all the typos im sorry but it is hard to type while tears run rampent.do you know that the reason i fold is the hope that sometime in the future that some one will not have to sit in a cold hospital room and cry when they loose someone close to them.you know i do not care who is number 1 in the stats,i just care that we all fold and i would like to thank all of you here at (H) for your good work.if i ofended anyone i am sorry because this post was not ment to offend or be spitefull i just have a 10th grade education so sometimes it is hard for me to get my feelings across,and thank you all here for folding.
 
nitrobass24 said:
Can we move on seriously? This is not what its about.
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We don't need to get sidetracked now. Can a mod clean this thread up a bit? I don't normally ask for this but this thread is important for folders and folding.
 
patchesanook said:
is this going to turn into a bashing thread?i thought we all folded for the benefit to mankind,i did not realize that being number 1 ment so much.i admit i am a noob and under educated and did not realize we had to be number 1 to make ourselves feel better.i fold for team evga and have no ill feelings to anyone i just thank you for folding, a little info for all.my best friend passed away from pancreatic cancer awhile back and i was there with his family in the hospital room.untill you have been there you do not know how helpless you feel,when the alarms go off on the things they have hooked up to him it just breaks your heart,for all the typos im sorry but it is hard to type while tears run rampent.do you know that the reason i fold is the hope that sometime in the future that some one will not have to sit in a cold hospital room and cry when they loose someone close to them.you know i do not care who is number 1 in the stats,i just care that we all fold and i would like to thank all of you here at (H) for your good work.if i ofended anyone i am sorry because this post was not ment to offend or be spitefull i just have a 10th grade education so sometimes it is hard for me to get my feelings across,and thank you all here for folding.
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The whole point of this thread is so we can establish a few ground rules so that we can all fold for the right reasons, rather than having people cheat to get a few more points at the expense of the science.
 
im really confused now,how can we cheat what benifit comes to us,is it like hackers in a game,does it still benifit all,im a noob but i think everyone is worried about being number 1,if this is the only reason we fold we need to step back and take a deep breath.the reason we fold should be for the benifit of mankind. heck we can all pick on team evga because they are number 1 lets pick on everyone that folds for trying to cheat science,and we should ignore the help they do.durn folders you do not do it like i want you are cheating for no prize but helping science
 
patchesanook said:
im really confused now,how can we cheat what benifit comes to us,is it like hackers in a game,does it still benifit all,im a noob but i think everyone is worried about being number 1,if this is the only reason we fold we need to step back and take a deep breath.the reason we fold should be for the benifit of mankind. heck we can all pick on team evga because they are number 1 lets pick on everyone that folds for trying to cheat science,and we should ignore the help they do.durn folders you do not do it like i want you are cheating for no prize but helping science
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The issue isn't primarily concerned with points manipulation. Rather, we are concerned about harming the scientific progress of the project.

Parja, et al. You get your feelings hurt about our team recollecting the facts.

Let's keep that in perspective in light of posts like this one.


-ZS-Carpenter said:
The whole point of this thread is so we can establish a few ground rules so that we can all fold for the right reasons, rather than having people cheat to get a few more points at the expense of the science.
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when they drop lines like this I'm just waiting for the

-teams can not give out gifts of any kind to its loyal dedicated folders

I really hope all of you can see through this s........smokescreen. I didn't think they would have sand in their lady parts over losing first place like this.
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im sorry,i just do not understand this thread.i do not cheat at anything i do,does the cheaters still help the cause?if i have said or done anything that hurts others i apoligize.im just under educated and trying to help.there is a lot of us noobs reading this that do not know what is going on
 
patchesanook said:
im sorry,i just do not understand this thread.i do not cheat at anything i do,does the cheaters still help the cause?if i have said or done anything that hurts others i apoligize.im just under educated and trying to help.there is a lot of us noobs reading this that do not know what is going on
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Cheaters can help the cause in some cases, but at the same time they are hurting it in other ways. For example, a person who deletes SMP units that produce lower PPD while only folding units that provide more points does still end up contributing to the science, but every time they delete a unit they are pushing back the progress on that project.
 
Can we get off the subject of BWM already!
And the mod who said something stupid and recanted EVERYTHING!! Hats off to the mod!
Some of the people here are trying to beat the bird that was dead weeks ago.
Just move on.

If you truly want to make a difference, then we need input from all folding teams!
From 1st place to last!
 
gkanakis said:
Can we get off the subject of BWM already!
And the mod who said something stupid and recanted EVERYTHING!! Hats off to the mod!
Some of the people here are trying to beat the bird that was dead weeks ago.
Just move on.

If you truly want to make a difference, then we need input from all folding teams!
From 1st place to last!
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
Okay, I know a lot of people on many teams are far more educated than I on these issues, but here are my thoughts...

Every team should be encouraged to come up with their own ideas, best practices, frowned upon behavior. etc. in their own forums. They should propose, debate and revise these ideas without intervention from any other team derailing their own, internal (yet public) discussion.

Teams should feel free to browse other teams ideas/discussions (and feel free to propose ideas from the other team that they are in agreement with to their own team) but refrain from any negative comment on other teams discussion.

Upon arrival at a team consensus, those proposals should be put forth at a neutral forum such as the Folding Forum.

All teams are more comfortable on their own forum (or turf) and could feel attacked if other members come to their forum with comments. The same goes if they find themselves discussed on other teams forums.

Let's all thicken our skins and have a hearty discussion amongst ourselves. When each team develops their vision of how best to help the science, officially propose it.

I will now commence shutting the hell up.
 
KMac said:
Okay, I know a lot of people on many teams are far more educated than I on these issues, but here are my thoughts...

Every team should be encouraged to come up with their own ideas, best practices, frowned upon behavior. etc. in their own forums. They should propose, debate and revise these ideas without intervention from any other team derailing their own, internal (yet public) discussion.

Teams should feel free to browse other teams ideas/discussions (and feel free to propose ideas from the other team that they are in agreement with to their own team) but refrain from any negative comment on other teams discussion.

Upon arrival at a team consensus, those proposals should be put forth at a neutral forum such as the Folding Forum.

All teams are more comfortable on their own forum (or turf) and could feel attacked if other members come to their forum with comments. The same goes if they find themselves discussed on other teams forums.

Let's all thicken our skins and have a hearty discussion amongst ourselves. When each team develops their vision of how best to help the science, officially propose it.

I will now commence shutting the hell up.
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There were 13 pages of discussion ALL day yesterday, those BWM type posts should be in that thread. This one is supposed to be about fixing a few problems so none of us will have to face them again; a few, to the point, rules to clarify what is not accepted for F@H.
Your proposition was discussed there.
Not to single out anyone just making a statement.
I do not run this thread but I have no objections to positive input on the subject in the title.
 
i do not get my feelings hurt,i guess i should go to another forum,thank you all who replied civally.sorry can not spell
 
The only thing I have ever seen from PG on I7s and bigadv is that when the program first started, there was a statement saying the overclocked I7s have proven to be capable. Since this really hasn't changed, I can't see a need for I7s being included. The term "marginal systems" has come up quite a bit, but I do not recall PG ever referring to or defining a marginal system.

As far as team promotions, that has no bearing on this, unless the promotion would infringe on the rules (I can't think of an example where this would be the case.) Anything going on now, such as EVGA bucks or [H] video card/system give-aways, has no affect on any of this.
 
I personally think all folding forums need to have a stickey explaining aspects of folding such as how the wu's are made and assigned because most people that start know nothing about what they are actually doing. When I started I realized I was doing a small portion of a project but didnt realize that the next set of wu's rely on the info mine gives. I also didnt realize that if something happened to the wu (delete, eue, etc...) that the server wouldnt know until the date was past. If its a long page talking about this stuff the average user will read the first line or two and say screw it. I think it should be hints or something on the actual clients just explaining small intricate stuff that new people wouldnt know about. Just my 2 cents
 
Sigh, I'll remove the whole statement because it seems to get some people hurt for nothing. I was trying to bring a point and I was out of the whole drama because I wasn't folding until recently.

We are not here to try to debate what's cheating and what's not. We want to discuss what is the bad behaviors and address them with a good set of rules.
 
Great_Shovel said:
I personally think all folding forums need to have a stickey explaining aspects of folding such as how the wu's are made and assigned because most people that start know nothing about what they are actually doing. When I started I realized I was doing a small portion of a project but didnt realize that the next set of wu's rely on the info mine gives. I also didnt realize that if something happened to the wu (delete, eue, etc...) that the server wouldnt know until the date was past. If its a long page talking about this stuff the average user will read the first line or two and say screw it. I think it should be hints or something on the actual clients just explaining small intricate stuff that new people wouldnt know about. Just my 2 cents
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A set of guidelines would be a few lines long, not more. It is a good idea to add a few links to explain how things work as a background to help better understand the effects of not following the PG guidelines.
 
jebo_4jc said:
ok, I think we just need more specific wording. Something to the effect of "If your CPU can't natively meet the minimum requirements for a client, you may not mask the true nature of the CPU in order to force a non-compatible client to run."

Also, this brings up a great point. Has Pande ever made a clear statement regarding their position on running bigadv on i7?
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I did a lot of research and I didn't see a clear statement. For that reason, I won't add a rule against running bigadv on i7. About the Phenom II X6, it's impossible to run it and you must resort to using tricks to get it to run, which is not really allowed.
I also believe that in v7, there might be better hardware detection so they could theorically block single-cpu i7 systems from getting bigadv (requiring 8 physical cores, not threads).
 
Just a suggestion, folks. If you really want this to be a Folding @ Home wide discussion, and for it to be seen as something for the WHOLE of the community, PLEASE start and continue the discussion over at http://foldingforum.org . Holding it at ANY of the folding team forums implies, regardless of statements to the opposite, that the hosting team intends to shape the discussion, for no other reason than it is the hosting team's forum rules that will end up shaping the discussion.

d
 
drougnor said:
Just a suggestion, folks. If you really want this to be a Folding @ Home wide discussion, and for it to be seen as something for the WHOLE of the community, PLEASE start and continue the discussion over at http://foldingforum.org . Holding it at ANY of the folding team forums implies, regardless of statements to the opposite, that the hosting team intends to shape the discussion, for no other reason than it is the hosting team's forum rules that will end up shaping the discussion.

d
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This.

Come on, folks. Let's leave the names, teams, references to past events, etc. out of this and focus on what's important. And, for the love of milk, try your hardest to not take personal offense to each and every thing that's posted. Take the higher ground.
 
Parja said:
This.

Come on, folks. Let's leave the names, teams, references to past events, etc. out of this and focus on what's important. And, for the love of milk, try your hardest to not take personal offense to each and every thing that's posted. Take the higher ground.
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i do love my milk...
 
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