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Flash Performance on iPad?
- Thread starter Ashton
- Start date
Flash doesn't work on the iPad... and that's a good thing.
I've used a Galaxy Tab with Flash on it, and a friend owns one. When you turn Flash on, sites either take much longer to load or (usually) run poorly. It'll get better in time, I'm sure, but right now the iPad is almost a blessing because things load quickly. And when there's an alternative to Flash, it runs faster.
For example: virtually every YouTube and Vimeo clip runs in HTML5 on an iPad. It not only doesn't need Flash, it looks better because it's hardware accelerated and doesn't bog down the browser while you watch. The only area you're SOL in is in websites that depend on Flash for navigation... and if they don't have an HTML fallback, it's sloppy coding.
I've used a Galaxy Tab with Flash on it, and a friend owns one. When you turn Flash on, sites either take much longer to load or (usually) run poorly. It'll get better in time, I'm sure, but right now the iPad is almost a blessing because things load quickly. And when there's an alternative to Flash, it runs faster.
For example: virtually every YouTube and Vimeo clip runs in HTML5 on an iPad. It not only doesn't need Flash, it looks better because it's hardware accelerated and doesn't bog down the browser while you watch. The only area you're SOL in is in websites that depend on Flash for navigation... and if they don't have an HTML fallback, it's sloppy coding.
Not a tab, but I'm wanting to compare to flash performance on my EVO, which is supposedly DESIGNED to handle multimedia and flash support is... flaky... at best.
Mainly I was looking at youtube (which I know apple has a workaround for "the youtube app"--- but if it's same as EVO's workaround, it means you use the "mobile" youtube and you lose 90% of the legal "official" videos (advertising supported)) and at Veoh. Occasionally flash videos on websites promoting products I'm looking at purchasing.
YouTube has encoded every video uploaded for years now in H.264, and then wraps that H.264 in Flash if youre using a Flash-enabled web browser (and you havent opted into the pure HTML5 version of YouTube). The Apple YouTube app isnt a workaround: it loads and plays every YouTube upload thats been encoded in H.264. That means some of the really, really old uploads wont play, and thats all. Not once have I ever encountered a YouTube video that wouldnt play on iOS. Never.
Flash is becoming irrelevant. Thankfully.
It doesn't support it, and thank God. Android has supposedly been able to support Flash. I've seen it in action and it's laughable at best. Still, I don't understand why anyone would want it. Playing Flash games requires a mouse/keyboard, and the vast majority of videos play fine without Flash already.
I would assume tapping the screen would count as a mouse click and dragging your finger would count as click-and-drag (though KB is an issue) and certain sites force the flash codec because it's "universally compatable" (or maybe they're being paid by Adobe...) like Youtube was doing.
that was my point in asking about iPad's flash support - my android-powered EVO is a joke on flash sites.
really? I need to find a way to break the FLV container then so I can play these on my other devices (yeah, I'm sure there are ways but I've never looked for them, always instead looked for programs that specifically play FLVs)
opticalserenity
n00b
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2009
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- 39
Good lord, I'm very glad that disgusting proprietary junk isn't on my iOS devices. It's actually one of my favorite features.
jeremyshaw
[H]F Junkie
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I disabled flash on my stock HTC Aria, and when I rooted+updated to 2.3, no flash whatsoever. Cannot say I miss it. Youtube and VEVO app do all I need it to do, in terms of videos.
It does support it. It was ported over from android and the package is called "Frash" (frash.deb).
It integrates it into the safari browser and instead of a blank space where flash is, it will display a grey square that has the flash logo on it.
You simply click the square within the page and it will load and play the flash. It's fully working and funny interactive. Even sound and touch interaction works.
This package also works on the iPhone now too with newer versions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyQevzckq4s&feature=related
It integrates it into the safari browser and instead of a blank space where flash is, it will display a grey square that has the flash logo on it.
You simply click the square within the page and it will load and play the flash. It's fully working and funny interactive. Even sound and touch interaction works.
This package also works on the iPhone now too with newer versions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyQevzckq4s&feature=related
lol, first Flash website that guy went to it came up with an unexpected error.
And it would have the same error on an android phone or tablet. It's a direct port. Blame Adobe at that point. The mobile version doesn't support every function that the desktop version of flash supports.
When I said fully working I meant it's fully working as the mobile version of flash. Fully working as adobe wrote it and fully working as it does under the android OS.
It doesn't fully work like the desktop version because that absolutely doesn't exist anywhere in the mobile space. The full version only works on Windows, OSX, and Linux.
If it's a port of Android FLASH, then it's a joke...
translation: it only half-ass works... sometimes...
sorry, but I'm not at all impressed with the android implimentation...
No, the absence of Flash and Java is not a limitation.
Dark Prodigy
Jawbreaker
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2006
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- 2,803
Call me a troll... I really don't care, but its REALLY amusing to see all the Apple folk demonize Flash since the rise of modern Apple devices. If Flash was natively supported by Apple devices, I GUARANTEE Flash would not be as "disgusting" to the Apple crowd these days.
*chuckling*
*chuckling*
Lol... my thoughts exactly...
but honestly... why would someone bother porting flash to IOS if it was so demonic ...
sooo is it IOS OS or is it I operating system
Hey, since you seem to be omniscient, could you give me this week’s lotto numbers?
The reality is that Apple users intensely dislike Flash because Adobe did a halfass porting job, declined to fix their product for years, and are relieved that web languages have evolved to the point where Flash can be ignored.
And good riddance.
Good question. It defies logic.
Adobe did a halfass job of porting to Android too. Nothing changes...
though I do agree, I'm glad sites are evolving beyond flash. Apple or PC or Android, working or not, it's STILL a massive resource hog.
I 100% agree (even if the comment about Adobe half-ass porting flash is legit) Fanboyism is rampant in the Apple Orchards
sooo is it IOS OS or is it I operating system
iPhone Operating System. (Or iDevice Operating System) so it's I-Operating-system
It doesnt support JAVA?!?!
Ok, that's it, I'm out. I'll just wait to see what happens with the new Win7 tablets and android Honeycomb...
bigdogchris
Fully [H]
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- 19,104
I pray for a day when Flash becomes as significant as Real Player. It's just one more unnecessary add-on.
Let's just be honest, the average Apple user, [H] perhaps excluded, couldn't tell Flash from an animated GIF.
WIth the adoption of HTML5 things may change but as of now and certainly till now the web runs on Flash and Android or Windows mobile users have a leg up (not just because of Flash of course but that's one reason).
What is probably more true is that few people actually enjoy looking at a tiny screen while they browse the web (iPhone) which is why the lack of Flash is more of an issue to iPad than iPhone users.
Besides an apparent dim view of the intelligence of Apple product users, I see no basis for your statement here.
The web does not run on Flash, unless you count intrusive advertisements or picture slideshows to be the web. I certainly dont.
Not if you bother to look at the volume of data that iPhone owners plow through. Theyre clearly browsing the web and enjoying the experience, as the data consumption tale tells. Its not all app downloads and iTunes sales.
Its not an issue at all. Ive yet to hear anyone highlight any genuine loss caused by a lack of Flash. The best example Ive heard is the inability to browse a lot of upper-tier car manufacturers sites, which isnt exactly a big loss.
Flash is a bullet point. Nothing more.
While I agree that was a rather rude way of saying it, there is no denying that Apple users typically are less technologically inclined than windows users (who in tern are typically less technologically inclined than Linux/Unix users) I didnt say they all are, but that's the stereotype and I suspect there is some truth in it and apple themselves has always played up the simplicity of using a Mac.
I've seen a lot of sites that use flash for navigation, however they are not "vital" sites like banking or most high-end businesses (with the exception of news sites who almost universally use flash for their videos --- though some of these (MSNBC?) surely have moved to also having HTML5 (I know CNN and BBC dont - I tried both when I demo'd an iPad at Bestbuy, couldnt view any videos)
Keep in mind also the volume of youtube videos, a long youtube can be 40mb+ depending on quality and length (streaming full TV epps can be over 100mb), which was one of the iPhone's huge boasts initially. Not to mention apps like Facetime/Skype that broadcast video. (not that I'm saying people dont use small screens to surf the web, I routinely use 1-3gb/month on my EVO and previously on my Intrepid but a lot of people shy away from many sites due to having to constantly scroll to view then intelligibly)
Again, News sites are the only quasi-important sites I can think of that are impacted majorly. A *few* Webmail sites as well. Otherwise though a lot of sites like MSN Games (or other casual web-game sites) while not "important" are sites that people would likely try to browse on an ipad because a lot of those games would work brilliantly on a touch-screen (or at least not be inhibited)
Okay, so you actually have no rational basis for your assertion.
Most sites now will serve H.264 instead of Flash if your browser UA string identifies itself as Mobile Safari on the iPad. BBC iPlayer works on the iPad, for example. And Im not sure how long ago your iPad demo occurred, but CNN also serves H.264 video on the iPad.
Since YouTube works in Mobile Safari, that would count as people browsing the web for content on their iPhone. FaceTime only works over WiFi, which eliminates it as a factor in data consumption. Skype didnt get 3G video chat until a few weeks ago, and I would say that most iPhone owners do not use Skype for any sort of extended period; after all, people are paying for voice plans with their iPhone.
Youre basically making sweeping generalities based on thirdhand information.
Going by App Store sales and Apples iPod Touch marketing, iOS users dont really miss MSN Games.
Welcome to the internet, enjoy your stay.
also: prove me wrong.
All I know is I kept tapping the "view video" link at the top of an article or in a side-bar and it popped up saying "you do not have the latest flash player installed" This was a demo model so it's possible settings got screwed up too.
Most of us would differentiate between the two. I will give you the point for being technically correct, but most of us are talking about text-based sites, online stores, etc. not low-quality videos that view fine in a small screen.
didnt know, not familiar with the app only know about it bc somone mentioned it here
fair enough. Again didnt know.
"Okay, so you actually have no rational basis for your assertion."?
Keep in mind: you pay for a limited number of minutes a month. You can use skype free as long as you like to other skypers or for something like $3/month/quarter/soemthing to all phones in the USA
I don't know about you, but I pay for a voice plan too and I still make as many calls as I can using google voice callback + sipgate (VOIP) so I dont lose minutes.
See first response in this post
Just an example. I know my ex would be pissed she couldn't play her neopets games on it. (please dont go there, its just an example) and I havn't seen the figures for what apps are most popular, all I know is flash games dont work and lots of people casually play them in their free time. I also know MSN Games is free while some app-equivalents are not, so there are a number of people who dont play them and woudl miss MSN Games.
CKMorpheus
[H]ard|Gawd
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- Jul 6, 2001
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- 1,034
That's not just rude it's plain wrong. Think about your mom and dad. Are they on a Mac or PC? Your friends (who let's admit it, aren't on [H] and come to you for advice)? Your friends folks? Your average computer user?
I'd wager to say a severe majority of computer users who couldn't tell an email from a text, or a GIF from a Flash animation, are Windows users, seeing as how they also have a majority of the market.
I think you'd be surprised just how much you can actually do on a Mac. Certainly just as much if not more than a Windows PC (which you can do as well with Boot Camp!) with just as much customization and much less crashing.
Here at work, where I am an IT assistant, and we produce high end videos and graphic design animations for trade shows, special events, concerts, commercials... We just switched out the last few Windows boxes with Mac Pro's for our AVID systems, and our trouble tickets dropped about 70-80 percent over the past six months. Oh, and our entire office of nearly 30 employees is run off an Xserve.
If Mac's are good enough to not only maintain a high end graphics boutique, but handle high definition video editing without blinking, it's good enough for me.
Hmm I guess I got off on a tangent.
I will say though, that Flash is responsible for about 50-60 percent of computer crashes in our office, based on crash logs.
CKMorpheus
[H]ard|Gawd
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- Jul 6, 2001
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- 1,034
Hm... my iPad and iPhone support Java....?
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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- Nov 5, 2005
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- 44,154
Now this is just plain wrong. See sig. And the fact that Apple locks its OS to its machines is entirely artificial. Not saying that that's a bad thing but it is totally artificial, my sig rig could run OSX better than any retail Apple machine if it were allowed.
And properly maintained Windows machines don't crash. I didn't spend $5000 on my sig for to crash all the time. I can't remember that last time I saw a BSOD on it though things I do like 3D gaming and 3D Blu Ray do cause issues from time to time, but that's stuff that doesn't exist on OSX.
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I just wanted to QFT this. Also to point out there is a world of difference between MacOS9 and OSX (and yes, MacOS9 was painfully short on features at times) Though the only way I see you can "do more than windows" is because you can run Win and OSX while windows cannot (legally) run OSX
from P1: (emphasis added
Terpfen said:
Welcome to the internet, enjoy your stay.
also: prove me wrong.
Sorry, “no u” only works on 4chan.
And my point is that your admittedly brief demo session happened before CNN implemented UA string checking and H.264 video for qualifying devices.
You can go find an iPad right now, load CNN, and it will show H.264 video, not tell you to get Flash.
I’m not talking about low-quality video either. On the iPhone, video will load full-screen, with overlay controls allowing you to go back to the page when you’re done. The video looks excellent as long as you’re not using a halfassed source.
Yes, that’s sort of what I’m trying to tell you: you are unfamiliar with the topic at hand, and so you’re making wildly inaccurate statements because they sounded true enough to you many months ago. Actually, that sentence sort of covers every other quote reply I could make to you, so I’ll just end it here.
CKMorpheus
[H]ard|Gawd
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- Jul 6, 2001
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- 1,034
Of course it's artificial. No one has said otherwise. I guarantee you as soon as their rising prominence begins to subside, they will release a universal version to boost their rise to the top.
Of course any machine, from computers to electric razors will run well if properly maintained. I don't see what flashing a five grand rig proves, except that you have to spend twice as much on a computer as a Mac user to get the same experience? I'm not saying one computer is better than the other, and you're probably right, your machine would probably run OS X better than mine. Still, I'm on a Core i5 with 8GB of RAM, I'm watching Fringe in 720p HD, while compressing three one-hour HD videos at the same time with Sorrenson Squeeze, surfing the internet, and shopping/downloading on Steam. Not bad for a laptop. Oh, and I'm not plugged in.
Anddd I'm out. Back to discussing the OP.
I've really enjoyed my iPad day in and day out. I have not once noticed the lack of Flash. I have, however, noticed the abundance of finger prints.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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- Nov 5, 2005
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- 44,154
When did 3D multi-monitor gaming and 3D video become part of the Mac experience? You keep saying that an OSX based Mac can do everything a Windows PC can and that just isn't true. You can't do these things at any price on OSX currently.
Still, I'm on a Core i5 with 8GB of RAM, I'm watching Fringe in 720p HD, while compressing three one-hour HD videos at the same time with Sorrenson Squeeze, surfing the internet, and shopping/downloading on Steam. Not bad for a laptop. Oh, and I'm not plugged in.
Pretty neat and I can do similar things on my i5 EP121 tablet while not plugged in as well but of course for not nearly as as long as it's the weight of the Macbook air.
Some people are genuinely against a proprietary, plugged-in web. That includes Flash, Silverlight (even though SL is an open tech), Java and even QuickTime. Even on a Mac, I have no interest in a site that uses QuickTime to achieve something possible with HTML5 technologies or pure JavaScript.
For what it's worth, I've disliked Flash since before it was ever an Adobe product (back when Flash and Shockwave were being developed by Macromedia) and well before Jobs' open letter. Spend 10 minutes developing content with it and you'd understand why. Add in the absurd frequency of security vulnerabilities, constant update nags, poor performance and atrocious stability and it's hard to imagine why anyone wouldn't feel the same way about it as I do.
sorry, dont go to 4chan, doesnt interest me... now Fchan....... *devil*
Months? no, about 3 weeks ago, but I digress.... that was the whole point of this discussion was BECAUSE I was unfamiliar, I was asking questions and stating what I had heard or knew from my demo. (other than the well-known stereotypes, which are public knowledge)
my point was "surfing the web" is often separated from "viewing youtube" (and it sounds like Android borrowed a few thing. That's the same way YouTube (mobile) works on my EVO...) Most of YouTube is half-ass source, havnt you noticed that? Unless I go to an official channel like Vevo or Funimation, I almost always see artifacts and rarely see a "640" button, much less a "720p" button
HEY! We have PORTAL and HALF LIFE 2 now!
Practically all that's worth getting on steam
(sorry, really dont like the delivery system)How do you play HL2, much less PORTAL with a 1-button mouse...
I'm going to clarify/debunk a few things:
FLV is not the container. FLV is the video. A SWF is a container for a FLV. Flash can play multiple types of video. YouTube simply using H.264 for the video, then puts either a SWF or HTML5 wrapper on it. FLV's are not typically H.264. H.264 files typically have the .mp4 extension.
I think the reason most Apple users dislike Flash is because Steve Jobs says he doesn't like it. The problem with Flash has nothing to do with porting or that "it sucks." The problem is that it has become so widely adopted and so many tools for creating flash don't have any sort of quality control. Anyone and their mom can google for some AS2 or AS3 and copy it and paste it into their project. This can quickly create CPU hogging, memory leaks... all because the person creating it doesn't really know what they're doing. Flash is actually still very cool and relevant, but all too often is implemented by someone who doesn't know this stuff.
There's Flash components out there that compound the issue. Doesn't matter if they're on a Mac or PC, they will suck down the CPU even on a reasonably beefy consumer box.
JavaScript has these same issues. However, the barrier to entry to create complex JS is much higher than for AS. So at this point we're not seeing as many issues with JS. It will come, however.
You must be referring to Java Applets. It doesn't support ActiveX controls either.
---
Overal on the Flash topic, Flash is used very well and probably largely unnoticed by most of you... but it's also used in the most messed up ways and it's easy for it to become the target of complaints even if it's not the actual cause of the issue. I've seen people complain about Flash on a site when really it's the site's JS that's causing problems.
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The OS isn't really locked to its machines. The installer requires EFI. Yes Apple is pretty much the only one using that right now, but someday we'll hopefully see PCs using it. Once you get past that issue, just like any PC it's a matter of having the right drivers. Your machine can likely run OSX, but will run into some issues simply because since Apple doesn't use those same hardware components (chipsets, including cpu, network, SATA...) they just don't have native drivers for it.
If you follow the hackintosh scene much, you will probably notice Apple really isn't doing much to actually try and stop people from putting OS X on x86 hardware. (I say this as I write from my own hackintosh, and just built one for my wife last week.)
Also, the Mac Pro can be configured with two six-core westmere Xeons... pretty sure that's going to "run better" than your 980x.
Meh, Windows still crashes. Not as often as it used to, but it still does. If it didn't, we would see OS fixes that come out that fix crashers. It is rare, but to say they "don't crash" is an exaggeration.
I don't think that's true. I think the least technically inclined are Windows users. The next level towards technical inclination are Mac users. In the next level up, we find Windows users again. After that there's a few more layers, and in there you can fix Mac, Windows, linux... users. Some are generalists and know all the platforms well. Some are specialists and know one platform extremely well (like a game developer.)
I am a Mac user. If I had to pick one OS, it would be Mac OS. But I say that having multiple machines, some PCs, some Macs... My main work machine is a hackintosh. My HTPC runs Win7. My home server runs OS X. My secondary dev box runs Win7, web servers typically run linux...
FLV is not the container. FLV is the video. A SWF is a container for a FLV. Flash can play multiple types of video. YouTube simply using H.264 for the video, then puts either a SWF or HTML5 wrapper on it. FLV's are not typically H.264. H.264 files typically have the .mp4 extension.
I think the reason most Apple users dislike Flash is because Steve Jobs says he doesn't like it. The problem with Flash has nothing to do with porting or that "it sucks." The problem is that it has become so widely adopted and so many tools for creating flash don't have any sort of quality control. Anyone and their mom can google for some AS2 or AS3 and copy it and paste it into their project. This can quickly create CPU hogging, memory leaks... all because the person creating it doesn't really know what they're doing. Flash is actually still very cool and relevant, but all too often is implemented by someone who doesn't know this stuff.
There's Flash components out there that compound the issue. Doesn't matter if they're on a Mac or PC, they will suck down the CPU even on a reasonably beefy consumer box.
JavaScript has these same issues. However, the barrier to entry to create complex JS is much higher than for AS. So at this point we're not seeing as many issues with JS. It will come, however.
You must be referring to Java Applets. It doesn't support ActiveX controls either.
---
Overal on the Flash topic, Flash is used very well and probably largely unnoticed by most of you... but it's also used in the most messed up ways and it's easy for it to become the target of complaints even if it's not the actual cause of the issue. I've seen people complain about Flash on a site when really it's the site's JS that's causing problems.
---
The OS isn't really locked to its machines. The installer requires EFI. Yes Apple is pretty much the only one using that right now, but someday we'll hopefully see PCs using it. Once you get past that issue, just like any PC it's a matter of having the right drivers. Your machine can likely run OSX, but will run into some issues simply because since Apple doesn't use those same hardware components (chipsets, including cpu, network, SATA...) they just don't have native drivers for it.
If you follow the hackintosh scene much, you will probably notice Apple really isn't doing much to actually try and stop people from putting OS X on x86 hardware. (I say this as I write from my own hackintosh, and just built one for my wife last week.)
Also, the Mac Pro can be configured with two six-core westmere Xeons... pretty sure that's going to "run better" than your 980x.
Meh, Windows still crashes. Not as often as it used to, but it still does. If it didn't, we would see OS fixes that come out that fix crashers. It is rare, but to say they "don't crash" is an exaggeration.
I don't think that's true. I think the least technically inclined are Windows users. The next level towards technical inclination are Mac users. In the next level up, we find Windows users again. After that there's a few more layers, and in there you can fix Mac, Windows, linux... users. Some are generalists and know all the platforms well. Some are specialists and know one platform extremely well (like a game developer.)
I am a Mac user. If I had to pick one OS, it would be Mac OS. But I say that having multiple machines, some PCs, some Macs... My main work machine is a hackintosh. My HTPC runs Win7. My home server runs OS X. My secondary dev box runs Win7, web servers typically run linux...
ugh *shudder* how can you even joke about that? MacOS was horrible. Hell I'd rather use Win3.1 (and did back then).
OSX is another matter (and I hope you realize it's actually Unix
heh heh heh) Though due mainly to universal support and familiarity, I'd go with Win7 or WinXP (I know it's dead, but it was still MS's best OS till 7 came out)For anyone wondering, I went with a Windows Tablet solution (Thinkpad X41 Tablet) and so far I'm quite happy with it (even if the speaker is broken... >.< but then my headphones are porbably 50x better anyway).
iOS does not support Java.