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First WC Kit - Lets make it [H]ardcore

Ok getting back on topic,
Basically what im looking for is a system that will keep my CPU, and GPU(s) on full load under 40C, maybe the GPU a little hotter, but you get the idea of the temps im trying to reach. But I also dont want to spend an arm and a leg doing this. Id set my max to 500 anywhere over that and its just like...ughh....
 
what i wonder TN is just how much better the thermochill is, my double heater core is more then enough for my cpu/gpu considering the water/rad almost never gets warm with about 50cfm going through the fans, maybe my really high flow setup is the cause of this? when i drain the water from the loop it takes about a second to drain the whole liter :eek:
 
ryuji said:
what i wonder TN is just how much better the thermochill is, my double heater core is more then enough for my cpu/gpu considering the water/rad almost never gets warm with about 50cfm going through the fans, maybe my really high flow setup is the cause of this? when i drain the water from the loop it takes about a second to drain the whole liter :eek:
Click to expand...

Well maybe it is? And maybe others get the same kind of performance you do with less flow. Have no experience with the Thermochill rads, but I hear they work well. :)
 
Top Nurse said:
Well maybe it is? And maybe others get the same kind of performance you do with less flow. Have no experience with the Thermochill rads, but I hear they work well. :)
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i hear there better too but what im wondering is are you spending 2x more for 3C lower or somthing like that...
 
Hey, I know you all say dont get WC kits, but Swiftech just made one that looks and performs really decently. Its on the [H]ard Front page and they got the temps are this:
cpugraph.jpg

a.jpg


Im not sure how itll perform on a 7800GTX but they this flow:
32.jpg


For that price (260), what do you think?
 
no one here who is performance oriented knocks the apex. it's a top performing kit, composed of some of the best mass produced parts that DIYers love to use. i mentioned it when i suggested ways to go in terms of parts selection.

just add a MCW 55 GPU waterblock with optional half inch barbd and a little extra tubing, and it's good to go.
 
yeah, it doesn't come with a waterblock, the reviewers had to order that seperately.


and just to be clear, you don't have to cut a gaping hold in the case the way that they did in the review. swiftech includes some plastic grommets so that you just need to drill a pair of holes in the back of the case, stick the grommets in there, and route the tubing through. that's the reccomended install.
 
What would be the best VGA block to put in there? What about pump? Whats better...the swiftech or the DD-D4 orD5? What about radiator? How does that one perform compared to a vaporchill or heatercore? Can the tubing fit through the PCI slots in the back of the case? What would be the best for best cooling? Im guessing 1/2 right? What about compared to the 7/16 that comes with this?
 
As stated before, the APEX kit is about the best retail kit you're going to get right now. As for the Thermochill radiators, there aren't any of the new PA series sold in the US right yet and if it's better than a heater core I haven't a clue, Cather would have to answer that one.
The Swiftech MCP655 and Danger Den D5 are the same pump and are at the top of the standard retail performance list right now.
 
What about VGA block? Best one for GTX? You said the pump was the top of the retail performance...what about enthusiast list?
 
DFI Daishi said:
haelduksf: you, yes you, the other canadian. you must post in here more often. i often feel that we are under-represented. we must unite and post. heh.......i live in guelph and go to school at university of waterloo. about an hour away from TO on the 401. you?

as for the OP: if you're gonig to make it hardcore, straight watercooled, and performance oriented, with a sane budget: thermochill PA120.2 rad, dangerder D5 pump/swiftech MCP655 pump (same pump, find the better deal), silverprop fusion cyclone fusion SL, a pair of roughly 30 db fans, and swiftech storm CPU block.

if you want to get something really good in a kit: swiftech apex, plus MCW55 waterblock with optional half inch barbs and a bit of added tubing.

if you really want to go killer, and throw prices to the wind (kind of like your original plan): thermochill PA120.3 rad, 3x yate loon 120mm fans, iwaki pump http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=IK1123, little river storm G5 or storm G7 http://www.employees.org/~slf/lrwb/ (whichever cathar is taking orders of, at this point), silverprop fusion SL block.

the new swiftech might very well outperform the silverprop, however it's new enough on the scene that i don't think that there is a definate verdict in on that one.
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Exactly like what DFI Daishi was saying.................;)
 
from what i have seen/read the mcw55 and the maze4 acetal performs pretty much the same, its more of a personal choice between the two all i know is the maze4 is less restrictive then the mcw55, which is just a improved version of there earlier modle
 
DangerIsGo said:
What would be the best VGA block to put in there? What about pump? Whats better...the swiftech or the DD-D4 orD5? What about radiator? How does that one perform compared to a vaporchill or heatercore? Can the tubing fit through the PCI slots in the back of the case? What would be the best for best cooling? Im guessing 1/2 right? What about compared to the 7/16 that comes with this?
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bio-hazard already addressed the pump.

the swiftech rad is a good performer in that size range. it is par with the BIP2 rad, and a heatercore without a good shroud. it doesn't work as well as the thermochill PA120.2, however it is less expensive, easier to get, and comes included in the kit. between all of these rads there is probably going to be at most 1-2 C difference, all other things being equal. thermochill is tops, if you want the best, but the included swiftech is no slouch.

i mentioned thermochill earlier because your budget was looking pretty insane. if you're budgeted for the best, go for it. if you're not really wanting to spend as much as your originally planned loop was going to cost, the rad that comes with the apex is fine.

no, the tubing will not fit through a single PCI slot. besides which, having the rad with the barbs at the bottom is pretty lousy when it comes time to fill the system, because it takes forever to bleed the air out of it. if you don't want to cut up the case a whole lot, just get the right sized drill bit and use the reccomended install.

the 7/16" ID tubing that the kit comes with, at just 1/16" shy of being 1/2", performs so close to half inch tubing that you're not going to be able to even measure a difference in temps. if you're thinking of going for killer ultimate enthusiast parts, then maybe think about going for the larger tubing sizes, maybe porting your barbs, and evey other little trick out there. this kit has well balanced parts: if you want better performance that the apex will give you, it's going to cost a lot more, and you need to design bigger from the ground up.
 
ryuji said:
i hear there better too but what im wondering is are you spending 2x more for 3C lower or somthing like that...
Click to expand...

The real life [H]ard scenario. How much does it cost for a few degrees and will it make any difference in what my computer can do. Reminds me of walking into a speed shop in the 50's to 60's: Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go. :D
 
porting normally means shaving or drilling the center of a tbe or cylinder type thing to make the inner diameter larger.... and the walls smaller conversely

i havent read the rest of the posts yet, but when i hear that you porting sumthin im thinkin of cars and the engine block
 
ryuji said:
'port the barbs'=?
Click to expand...
drill/grind out the centers of the barbs, making the metal thinner, and the hole that coolant passes through bigger and less restrictive.

vroom, vroom......gets that last little bit of performance, be it moving a little more air-fuel/exhaust in and out of an engine, or a bit more coolant through your loop.
 
oh and danger. its been written about here already, i should bookmark the link cuz i keep pasting it for folks.... the 1/16" ID difference is negligible on performance, but it translates to a much better OD and as such makes the tubing MUCH easier to work with. the kit, is the best out there, no one knocks it. you dont have to pick every piece individually to be [H]ard. thats like my did thinking my computer is crazy out of this world cuz the components consist of things that have "gigabyte" in the name.

and you asked about the pump, and bio replied and i think you misunderstood, the swiftie pump and D-_ pump is the same thing basically and is one of the best. what he said. whether it be commercial retail wholesale upsale downsale. what he meant is that the best "that you can buy" when he said retail performance list.
 
el rolio said:
and you asked about the pump, and bio replied and i think you misunderstood, the swiftie pump and D-_ pump is the same thing basically and is one of the best. what he said. whether it be commercial retail wholesale upsale downsale. what he meant is that the best "that you can buy" when he said retail performance list.
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ehm, you can also buy the iwaki pump that i put up, and it performs better. it's big, expensive, and it's AC, so it's not as easy to use. once again, that's from the performance means everything, budget is huge, adass cooling list.

i think that what bio-hazard and i both meant was that the D5 is the best commonly used, commonly available, computer watercooling pump.
 
DFI Daishi said:
ehm, you can also buy the iwaki pump that i put up, and it performs better. it's big, expensive, and it's AC, so it's not as easy to use. once again, that's from the performance means everything, budget is huge, adass cooling list.

i think that what bio-hazard and i both meant was that the D5 is the best commonly used, commonly available, computer watercooling pump.
Click to expand...


nah i agree and i realised by not mentioning the iwaki pump in my post above i was gonna get a comment, but i wanted to make the point clear cuz it seemed to me the OP is geting lost in the concept that if its not super expensive and hand picked its worthless.... and you cannot call anything about the apex kit worthless.... see what im sayin?
 
el rolio said:
nah i agree and i realised by not mentioning the iwaki pump in my post above i was gonna get a comment, but i wanted to make the point clear cuz it seemed to me the OP is geting lost in the concept that if its not super expensive and hand picked its worthless.... and you cannot call anything about the apex kit worthless.... see what im sayin?
Click to expand...
okay, how about this: iwaki = ferarri, arguably the best out there. d5 = dodge viper, performance that is really up there, not the best, but damn good for the price.
 
finaly got my pc back up, heres my 6800gt with the heat load of my prescott at stock speed(about what all you a64 ppl get) and also this is with my room at about 20C and fans quiet speed level

aparently you can expect better performance then that out of the swiftech block, if so, i guess you could get those instead, the maze4 far from sucks tho

this is my tdx, you can expect better temps then this on the storm i suppose


that should give you a ballpark idea of what to expect for temps
 
oh, and i'm not saying that the maze 4 GPU isn't good. i use one myself. my x850XT, stock voltage but running the core at 564 MHz idles in the low thirties and after an hour of playing fear gets up to 42. it works fine, it's just not the best, and the best costs pretty close to the same as it does.

incidently, my CPU block is a maze 4-1, also by DD. i use DD product, however i don't usually reccomend it because i feel that there is better stuff out there at the moment.
 
DFI Daishi said:
oh, and i'm not saying that the maze 4 GPU isn't good. i use one myself. my x850XT, stock voltage but running the core at 564 MHz idles in the low thirties and after an hour of playing fear gets up to 42. it works fine, it's just not the best, and the best costs pretty close to the same as it does.

incidently, my CPU block is a maze 4-1, also by DD. i use DD product, however i don't usually reccomend it because i feel that there is better stuff out there at the moment.
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i was showing what i get so they can have a baseline for what better stuff would get them :D
personaly, i did DD setup because i like the way the blocks look, i love them the most out of all of them, but looks is up to the person who buys, not other ppl

my gt tops out at 40C my prescott idles at 26C
 
So how does the fusion SL perform compared against the swiftech MCW55 and the MAZE4GPU? where can I buy it in the US? If I cant, which would be better, MCW55 or MAZE4? Also, what do you all think of peltiers / thermoelectric with liquid cooling? swiftech has those too. Can the 1/2 or 7/16" tubes fit through the back PCI slot? Their exactly half inch apart so maybe? One more thing, the MCW55 has 1/2OD while the Apex has 7/16, wouldnt u need adapters for it too fit else the VGA block will be too big? And is a chipset block worth looking into? I mean their only $39. How about HDD cooling? And are the NV78's really not that good? I meant they cool the RAM in front too. No good or just not as good as the MCW55 or MAZE4GPU or silverprop SL?
 
DangerIsGo said:
So how does the fusion SL perform compared against the swiftech MCW55 and the MAZE4GPU? where can I buy it in the US? If I cant, which would be better, MCW55 or MAZE4?
Click to expand...
probably the MCW55, but it is a new block and there are not enough reviews of waterblocks to say that it is definately better. same answer with the silverprop block, really. it is better than the previous revision maze 4, but it's probably close enough match between it and the MCW55 that whichever you like more is best. i don't know when to get the silverprop.

DangerIsGo said:
Also, what do you all think of peltiers / thermoelectric with liquid cooling? swiftech has those too.
Click to expand...
pelt cooling works quite well, however the ready to go units with 80 watt pelts that swiftech sells don't have the guts to cool a current gen video card. another user(Marci) recently posted some promising results using a 172 watt 24 volt pelt running at 12 V off of his PSU, giving hit about 120 watts cooling power and load temps of around 15C. it dumps added heat into your loop, so you need a bigger rad or more powerfull fans to keep good temps. i had to abandon my 80 watt GPU pelt and go to straight water for the GPU when i moved up from my 9800pro to my x850XT.

DangerIsGo said:
Can the 1/2 or 7/16" tubes fit through the back PCI slot? Their exactly half inch apart so maybe? One more thing, the MCW55 has 1/2OD while the Apex has 7/16, wouldnt u need adapters for it too fit else the VGA block will be too big?
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it's a better bet to follow swiftech's instructions and drill holes in the back of the case for the tubing, because having the rad's barbs at the bottom makes it a royal pain to get all of the air bled out of your system. the kit includes instructions for how to do it. reagarding barb and hose size: all of the barbs in the swiftech kit are 1/2". you just stretch the hose over the barb. if you ge teh MCW55, make sure to get the optinal 1/2" barbs. you need them for it to work with the rest of the kit..

DangerIsGo said:
And is a chipset block worth looking into? I mean their only $39. How about HDD cooling?
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i doubt that you can fit a chipset block for a 7/16" system around your video cards. even if you could fit the block, the added restriction would negatively affect the performance of all other components being cooled. see what kind of aftermarket heatsink you can modify to fit in there instead. HDD cooling is pointless, since after you have eliminated CPU and CPU heat from the case, even a faint breeze from an inaudible 15-20 db intake fan and the PSU outlet fan will keep the drive cool enough.

DangerIsGo said:
And are the NV78's really not that good? I meant they cool the RAM in front too. No good or just not as good as the MCW55 or MAZE4GPU or silverprop SL?
Click to expand...
the NV68 has a huge problem getting proper contact between the block and the core plus all of the memory chips, as well as being restrictive as hell. depending on how the thing sits on your individual card, one thing or another will not be getting cooled properly, and you had better hope that it is not the core. none of the other blocks mentioned have that particular problem, and so they often perform better.
 
Thanks. Also wondering, is the rad that comes w/ the apex good enough for a pelt? Arent pelts dangerous as cant they get a lot of condensation to show up around the bottom of the block near the core? I heard that somewhere. And is it possible for the MC220 Rad in the apex kit to fit in the CM Stacker case ? What do you think would be the best way? How would you secure the rad to the back of the case? How many holes would you drill into the case? The 2 for the tubes and a few smaller ones for the brace?
 
DangerIsGo said:
Thanks. Also wondering, is the rad that comes w/ the apex good enough for a pelt? Arent pelts dangerous as cant they get a lot of condensation to show up around the bottom of the block near the core? I heard that somewhere. And is it possible for the MC220 Rad in the apex kit to fit in the CM Stacker case ? What do you think would be the best way? How would you secure the rad to the back of the case? How many holes would you drill into the case? The 2 for the tubes and a few smaller ones for the brace?
Click to expand...
running a pelt on the GPU with definately give you a CPU cooling performance hit, using the stock rad. it would probably work, however you would have to run the fans a fair bit higher.

yes, pelts are quite dangerous, because of condensation and fire hazard both. i have done both to my system. you avoid the condensation with insulation, grease, and waterproof PCB coating (conformal coating) however, it take quite a bit of work. it also puts a large additional load on your system's PSU.

you drill two large holes, one for each tube. the radbox (brace) screws into existing holes for mounting a fan on the back of the case. i believe that the kit's instructions tell you the exact type and size of drill bit to get.

edit: i just looked at the stacker you put up, and it's not the stacker that i was thinking of. you might very well be able to install the rad directly to those two 120mm fan ports on the back of that thing.damn would that ever make life easy.......
 
Is it possible to lay the radiator horizontal instead of keeping it vertical? i always see it vertical, but what about it being flat?
 
totally possible to run it flat. i do that with one of my rads.

however, as i noted in my previous post, i think that the easiest and cleanest install of them all would be to use the two 120mm fan ports that are already there. the rad and tubes would be entirely internal.
 
So if I were to get the Apex kit (which has 7/16" tubing correct?) and also get the swiftech GPU block, I would need these right? and put them in the gpu block and connect them in cycle with the rest of the stuff? Or is it somethign else? Is it the same thing thats in this picture?
 
But if the tubing is 7/16" and the barbs (what does barb stand for anyway?) are 1/2", will they fit?
 
7/16"id tubing will slip over 1/2" barbs relatively easily, and will give a very secure connection, ie you could much more easily get by without hose clamps, but clamps never hurt, and they're included in the Apex kit.
 
DangerIsGo said:
But if the tubing is 7/16" and the barbs (what does barb stand for anyway?) are 1/2", will they fit?
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barb doesn't stand for anything, it describes a shape, and that is that shape that a hose barb has. first entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barb

as ikellensbro said, the tubing slips right onto the larger barbs. i have 1/2" tubing on 5/8" barbs in my own system.
 
As far as ordering this Apex kit, cant you order it directly from Swiftech? They do have an online store.
 
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