First time SFF build looking for direction!

[Swiss SG]

Hi all,

First stumbled on [H]ard|Forum a few years back will doing research on my first gaming rig. I remember checking out the SFF forums at that time and thinking to myself how amazing it would be to build one but shied away - what I (thought) I wanted out of a rig and what was available at the time didnt seem to match up.

My needs are starting to change based on my current lifestyle. In a nutshell, I need something that I can handle for a daily commute from my home to my office but still geared towards FPS gaming (I will only be playing CSS and soon BF3.) At this point, I don't intend to OC as I think its beyond my tech level and generally makes me nervous.

I've been trying to do my due diligence by reading recent build posts and general posts regarding mATX vs mITX, different cases, GPU's, PSU's, heating, modding, and although I am able to follow along, my head is swimming. Im starting to jumble everything up and am having a hard time figuring out where to start.

So I am now turning to you all in hopes that you would be willing to share your time and knowledge so that I can figure out if my expectations are realistic and if so, get building!

1. What will you be doing with this PC?

1. Gaming (CSS is the only game I play. I would like to start BF3. I don't need to play on maxed out settings, but am I expecting too much to be able to do this SFF??)
2. Internet/photo (I upload a lot pictures onto my computer for my websites)

2. What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Is your budget flexible? Is cost a driving factor in component selection?

• I'd love to keep things between $500-$600 but this may not be realistic for my desire to play newer games. EDIT** starting to think around $900 might be a better target.
• Tax and shipping are not included in this budget
• My budget is flexible
• Cost is not the main driving factor

3. Where do you live? Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)?

• Live in Boston MA
• There is a Microcenter very close to me

4. What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

• Case (really like the SG07/shuttle SA76G2; SH67H3/Lian-Li. Want to keep it under 7-8lbs) I'm really trying to avoid going the SG04/FT03 route.
• Motherboard
• CPU
• RAM
• PSU
• Hard drive
• Optical drive

5. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. For reused parts, list brands, model #s, and, if applicable, firmware revisions.

• EVGA 01G-P3-1373-AR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked EE 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0

6. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc. Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Make sure you indicate *required* vs. *wanted* for each feature you list.

Wanted:

• USB 3.0

Most important is size; trying to keep things small, portable and unobtrusive.

7. What resolution output do you need? 1080p, 720p, DVD quality, etc for HTPC or list Vertical/horizontal resolution for non-HTPC SFF rigs. Do you need multiple monitor output?

Single monitor. At least 1680x1050.

8. Does this system need to fit into a particular space? Think entertainment center shelves, closet space, rackmount, etc.

No. Just want something unobtrusive.

9. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)?

Ive never custom designed or modded. I feel confident I can do so with proper instructions. I know how to solder but have only done so with basic electronics like radios and headphones. I have access to most home improvement tools (hammer, screwdriver, drill, metal snips, wire cutters/strippers, etc...), could probably get my hands on a dremel if need be.

10. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care

The quieter the better but I realize that this is hard for a gaming rig. Ideally nothing above 45dbs. I don't know if I'm skilled enough or have the budget for WC.

11. How mobile does this system need to be? Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Is weight important (carry-on bag, etc)? Water cooling quick disconnects, etc?

I'll be taking this with me in my car on my daily commute from home to office. I really liked the idea of the "stereo handle" that was posted here. I'm thinking most likely I will get carrying straps.

The lighter the better.

12. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Remember that OEM copies of Win7 have issues with new motherboards

Yes. Windows 7 home 32bit. Would you recommend getting 64?

13. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years?

I would like to buy and build within a months time. I am willing to wait 2-3 months if people feel the holiday season and/or major release of new tech will drive my costs down or make what I am looking for more realistic.

 

[darrella]

I built something like this recently, here's the parts I used:
Case & PSU:SILVERSTONE SG07-B $210
Motherboard: ASRock H67M-ITX/HT $125
CPU: Intel Core i5-2400S $201
RAM:CORSAIR XMS3 8GB $50
SSD: OCZ Vertex 3 V3LT-25SAT3-240G 2.5" 240GB $440
ODD: Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner $46
Video: GIGABYTE GV-N570OC-13I Rev2.0 GeForce GTX 570 $345
CPU Heatsink:Thermalright AXP-140 $70
Total: $1487

You shouldn't need more than 4GB RAM.
A nice quiet 7200rpm 1TB hard drive should work.
The stock Intel Heatsink & fan will work fine.

 

[ekuest]

what you want is entirely doable, but are you sure its a good idea? why do you need this rig at work? are you gaming at work? dont they provide you with a work computer? yuo can certainly make a rig small enough to cart back and forth every day, but it will be heavy, and i think that it will get very annoying and you will likely eventually break it. can you explain why its necessary?

 

[Cov]

Hi all,

Hi you

... I need something that I can handle for a daily commute from my home to my office but still geared towards FPS gaming.

Suggestion ...

Lian Li TU200

Have not looked into the ones you have listed there. Need to find out whethere they have enough space for high performance graphics cards.

I've been trying to do my due diligence by reading recent build posts and general posts regarding mATX vs mITX, different cases, GPU's, PSU's, heating, modding, and although I am able to follow along, my head is swimming. Im starting to jumble everything up and am having a hard time figuring out where to start.

Sounds like you need to gather some practical experiences first before you can gain confidence in what you really want.
Might not be possible to get 100% reassurance just by reading a ton of information only.

So I am now turning to you all in hopes that you would be willing to share your time and knowledge so that I can figure out if my expectations are realistic and if so, get building!

Will it be your first build?

Gaming (CSS is the only game I play. I would like to start BF3. I don't need to play on maxed out settings, but am I expecting too much to be able to do this SFF??

Counter Strike Source and Battlefield 3 are two very different games in respect of system requirements.
You can play CSS with a low budget PC while BF3 will demand high specs. However, a SFF system can offer what you're looking for.

Internet/photo (I upload a lot pictures onto my computer for my websites)

Internet, flash, word processing, videos & mp3 .. all these things don't need expensive hardware - PC gaming does.

I'd love to keep things between $500-$600 but this may not be realistic for my desire to play newer games. EDIT** starting to think around $900 might be a better target.

Sounds about realistic

Just for a rough estimation:

cpu = $140 to $180.- (Intel i3 or i5)
mainboard = about $100.- (Intel, Gigabyte, Asus, etc)
graphics card = $260 to $300.- (HD6950)
RAM = $60.- (2x 4GB)
PSU = $60.- (Corsair 500W)
HDD = $60 (1TB) to $80.- (2TB) (WD) - have you considered getting a SSD?
ODD = DVD, BluRay, reader / burner?
PC case = $100 to $150.-

Comes to a total of min $550 (w/o graphics card) to $900.- depending on the hardware.

Reusing = EVGA 01G-P3-1373-AR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked EE 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0

The GTX 460 has the following ratings:

G3D = 2365
Rank = 30
Videocard value = 14.78

Someone else may comment whether he should keep using this one.

What specific features do you need in a motherboard? USB 3.0

Most mainboards with actual chipsets come with USB3 these days.

I've never custom designed or modded. I feel confident I can do so with proper instructions. I know how to solder but have only done so with basic electronics like radios and headphones. I have access to most home improvement tools (hammer, screwdriver, drill, metal snips, wire cutters/strippers, etc...), could probably get my hands on a dremel if need be.

Modding is a subject on its own

I'll be taking this with me in my car on my daily commute from home to office. I really liked the idea of the "stereo handle" that was posted here. I'm thinking most likely I will get carrying straps. The lighter the better.

Important to know

Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? Yes. Windows 7 home 32bit. Would you recommend getting 64?

If you want to use more than 4GB of RAM, there is no other way than using a x64 OS. However, spending the extra cash on x64 while you already have an x86 OS .. hm, don't know if that's smart.

When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years? I would like to buy and build within a months time. I am willing to wait 2-3 months if people feel the holiday season and/or major release of new tech will drive my costs down or make what I am looking for more realistic.

I'm in the process of building a new Mini iTX system as well at the moment.
Am pretty sure about the hardware but the prices have just gone up for CPU and Mainboard at where I live. Might wait a little and hope they will come down again.

 

[ekuest]

damn that lian li is a SICK case. yeah something like that would do very nicely OP. Cov is right that the 460 is a little light, but it should be able to play modern games ok. you would need to keep it on pretty low settings though, and you would need to upgrade it pretty soon anyway. i would sell it and upgrade to something bigger if i were you. as for ram, 4gb should be enough. as long as you arent running a bunch of other programs while gaming, you should be alright. again, you will be right on the edge of what you need, and may need to upgrade in the future. i think you need to decide whether you want to save money and have a rig that will do, but barely, or pump some money into it and make it last longer and perform faster.

 

[Swiss SG]

I built something like this recently, here's the parts I used:
Case & PSU:SILVERSTONE SG07-B $210
Motherboard: ASRock H67M-ITX/HT $125
CPU: Intel Core i5-2400S $201
RAM:CORSAIR XMS3 8GB $50
SSD: OCZ Vertex 3 V3LT-25SAT3-240G 2.5" 240GB $440
ODD: Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner $46
Video: GIGABYTE GV-N570OC-13I Rev2.0 GeForce GTX 570 $345
CPU Heatsink:Thermalright AXP-140 $70
Total: $1487

You shouldn't need more than 4GB RAM.
A nice quiet 7200rpm 1TB hard drive should work.
The stock Intel Heatsink & fan will work fine.

Awesome, thanks for the info and the reply, it is much appreciated. Will rundown the list!

 

[Swiss SG]

what you want is entirely doable, but are you sure its a good idea? why do you need this rig at work? are you gaming at work? dont they provide you with a work computer? yuo can certainly make a rig small enough to cart back and forth every day, but it will be heavy, and i think that it will get very annoying and you will likely eventually break it. can you explain why its necessary?

Thanks for the reassurance, I'm glad that I do have a foot in reality.

I don't need this rig at work, I could just use my current one to leave there (p180/P6N SLI-FI/INTEL|C2D E6750 2.66G/1Gx2|COR TWIN2X2048/OCZ|OCZ700GXSSLI 700W). I built it back in 2008 when I was really into gaming and thought I would eventually start OCing and go sli, but that never happened. I only have this one computer so I've been lugging it around when I know Im going to be staying at home.

I do game at work - I have a lot of down time between clients and my work is fairly seasonal so there are days where Im literally sitting here holding my d**k with no work to do.

I am not provided with a work computer.

My office is a 15 minute drive from my apartment so I'm not overtly concerned with transporting damage as I have my own car but I do realize that the more I move and jostle things around, the riskier and higher chance there is for me to damage something.

Needing to transport my computer is not quite a necessity. I like the idea of being able to just grab my computer and bring it home with me when I know that I won't have to be at the office for a few days. Currently I have a heavy ass desktop and a macbook - I guess I'm looking for a happy medium that I can do everything on but would also be my primary gaming computer. So basically when I want to game, I have to come back to my office which is a pain and I catch a lot of flack from my girlfriend =P

Your comments are definitely something that I appreciate and you've brought up some good points. Primarily, I'm just sick of this big ass rig that I have and want something that takes up less space and that affords me the luxury of easily taking it around with me.

 

[ekuest]

good enough for me. if you plan on regularly gaming in both places, then i say go for it. i like the case cov posted a lot, but it looks expensive, and a google shopping search for it gave me nothing, so it might be very hard to find. the only thing i dont like about it is that it has the motherboard in an upright postition, whereas i always liked the idea of having it flat on the bottom of the case. the reason for this is that with a gaming rig you will have a pretty heavy gpu, and i never liked the idea of it just hanging off the pci slot while you carry it. i like to have it straight up and down so gravity is pulling it into the slot instead of trying to snap it in half. that make sense? that sg07 danny posted is an awesome case, with room for a serious LP hsf (i recommend the thermalright axp-140 if you can find one) and a long gaming gpu. it also comes with a decent 600W psu. the only problems with it are that its a little bit big for an itx case, and that it doesnt have a handle. it cant really be much smaller though since it has that full-size 600W psu. if you wanted smaller then you would need the 450W silverstone sfx psu and a lot of people are having problems with them, and youd limit your gpu choices a little. the handle problem can be fixed by getting som LAN straps for it, which would probably be more comfortable than carrynig with a handle anyway.

 

[ekuest]

I built something like this recently, here's the parts I used:
Case & PSU:SILVERSTONE SG07-B $210
Motherboard: ASRock H67M-ITX/HT $125
CPU: Intel Core i5-2400S $201
RAM:CORSAIR XMS3 8GB $50
SSD: OCZ Vertex 3 V3LT-25SAT3-240G 2.5" 240GB $440
ODD: Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner $46
Video: GIGABYTE GV-N570OC-13I Rev2.0 GeForce GTX 570 $345
CPU Heatsink:Thermalright AXP-140 $70
Total: $1487

You shouldn't need more than 4GB RAM.
A nice quiet 7200rpm 1TB hard drive should work.
The stock Intel Heatsink & fan will work fine.

i would suggest a 7200rpm drive if you want to save a lot of money, or a ~100GB SSD if you like your OS zippy. never felt the need to save 5 seconds on boot myself, but some people do i guess. other than the ssd, you could change the cpu to a 2500k for $150 right now at microcenter. since that case has a 600W psu, you should have the headroom to use a 95W cpu if you'd like. mobo is whatever you like, im partial to gigabyte myself. (got 2 itx boards from them right now.) for gpu either a 6950 if you like red, or a 560ti/570 if you like green. you should definitely be able to get all this for under $1000, probably just under $900.

 

[Swiss SG]

Hi you

Hi Cov, thanks for your detailed reply!!!

Suggestion ...

Lian Li TU200

This is a really nice and clearly a sturdy case and I appreciate the suggestion. I really want to try have something that is under 3.6kg. I feel that the only time my rig would really be exposed to major damage risk would be the walk from car to indoors which is usually under 1 minute, so I don't think I will need something as rugged as this case.

Ekuest and you have brought up a good point regarding the risk of transporting my rig around. I realize that electronics are sensitive equipment and the less you disturb something the better. I did read a few posts where users said that you can also buy bags for some cases (I don't recall atm if it was SilverStone or LianLI...)

Is my idea of using SFF because it seems more practical and easier to transport misguided? Is there a higher risk associated with SFF? I would have thought that the inherent risk would lie in the hands of the user.

Have not looked into the ones you have listed there. Need to find out whethere they have enough space for high performance graphics cards.

Thank you for pointing this out. I have read many posts where people have cautioned to check the measurements for cases and video card clearance. This is definitely something that I know I need to be diligent about. Form what I've read, these cases are fairly accommodating to high performance graphics cards.

Sounds like you need to gather some practical experiences first before you can gain confidence in what you really want.
Might not be possible to get 100% reassurance just by reading a ton of information only.

I agree fully. At this point I'm trying to get an idea of where/how to start.

For example, do I start with choosing a MB first? or CPU first? or case first? My initial thought is I should find what MB I want and work my way around from there. Although I did see a post where someone suggested picking a case first and starting from there. Anyone have any thoughts? What was the process that you all used?

Will it be your first build?

This will be my first SFF build.

Counter Strike Source and Battlefield 3 are two very different games in respect of system requirements.
You can play CSS with a low budget PC while BF3 will demand high specs. However, a SFF system can offer what you're looking for.

Yes, if I thought I was only going to play CSS then I feel that this would be a much easier process. The fact that I want to be able to play BF3 is what I consider to be the limiting factor in my selection of components.

Internet, flash, word processing, videos & mp3 .. all these things don't need expensive hardware - PC gaming does.

Understood, just wanted to be thorough!

Sounds about realistic

Just for a rough estimation:

cpu = $140 to $180.- (Intel i3 or i5)
mainboard = about $100.- (Intel, Gigabyte, Asus, etc)
graphics card = $260 to $300.- (HD6950)
RAM = $60.- (2x 4GB)
PSU = $60.- (Corsair 500W)

Fantastic, thanks for the ranges, its comforting to know that prices are reasonable.

HDD = $60 (1TB) to $80.- (2TB) (WD) - have you considered getting a SSD?

I have considered SSD. My only concern is that it seems to be quite expensive... What are the advantages of going this route?

ODD = DVD, BluRay, reader / burner?

I would need a very basic dvd drive to install games/software. This is something that I would want to spend the minimum amount on.

PC case = $100 to $150.-
Comes to a total of min $550 (w/o graphics card) to $900.- depending on the hardware.

Very nice to hear. I'm glad that my budget is realistic.

Ekuest suggested I sell my 460 for an upgrade. I'm more about the gameplay than the eye candy so I'm a bit hesitant to sell but if I am, clearly its better sooner rather than later... I'll have to check sites and see what a fair asking price would be... I just purchased this card in March of this year

The GTX 460 has the following ratings:

G3D = 2365
Rank = 30
Videocard value = 14.78

Someone else may comment whether he should keep using this one.

Great link, nice info. Ekuest commented below and Im thinking more and more of doing as he suggested - selling and buying a new one.

Most mainboards with actual chipsets come with USB3 these days.

That's what I figured. Thoughts on wireless for gaming?

Modding is a subject on its own

Haha yeah! I would feel fine if I had to do something basic like cut a piece of something out to make room for a card, or drill a hole here or there but definitely nothing major. I'm definitely no mousemagician

If you want to use more than 4GB of RAM, there is no other way than using a x64 OS. However, spending the extra cash on x64 while you already have an x86 OS .. hm, don't know if that's smart.

Need to think about this more.

I'm in the process of building a new Mini iTX system as well at the moment.
Am pretty sure about the hardware but the prices have just gone up for CPU and Mainboard at where I live. Might wait a little and hope they will come down again.

Nice to hear! I look forward to seeing what you come up with. You mention mITX - do you think that this is viable for gaming? I did see mousemagicians build log, and despite the well documented process I think that is outside my comfort level as far as modding goes...

 

[ekuest]

it is very easy to build a power gaming system in the itx form factor. and youre right that itx will make it a lot easier to transport. personally i suggest starting with the case. and i vehemently oppose gaming over wireless if you can at all avoid it. if you have no choice, then you'll want a mobo with built-in wifi because wifi dongles SUCK.

 

[Swiss SG]

i would suggest a 7200rpm drive if you want to save a lot of money, or a ~100GB SSD if you like your OS zippy. never felt the need to save 5 seconds on boot myself, but some people do i guess. other than the ssd, you could change the cpu to a 2500k for $150 right now at microcenter. since that case has a 600W psu, you should have the headroom to use a 95W cpu if you'd like. mobo is whatever you like, im partial to gigabyte myself. (got 2 itx boards from them right now.) for gpu either a 6950 if you like red, or a 560ti/570 if you like green. you should definitely be able to get all this for under $1000, probably just under $900.

Awesome, Ekuest thanks for all this input!

I'm as much a speed freak as the next person but I haven't been able to justify SSD at the price points that Im familiar with. I did read that map load times on games can be significantly faster, not sure how or if this applies to multiplayer. If we're talking about shaving off minutes than at that point it seems very attractive but I don't mind if it takes 10-15-60 seconds longer.

Took a quick look as MB's, I didn't realize that I basically have a fistful of options. So, you would recommend mITX? That was something that I wasn't sure about vs mATX. I'm guessing since I dont plan on OCing, ITX would be better given the small cases available?

Quickly scanning reviews on newegg regarding the ASRock H67 and the Gigabyte have some mixed reviews. Seems like people are having problems as of April with the Gigabyte board, have you had any issues? Maybe I should pick them up at Microcenter instead of Newegg.

Love and appreciate the feedback from everyone, hungry for more!

 

[Swiss SG]

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0361415


GA-H67N-USB3-B3 LGA for 89.99 after mail in rebate?!! Ends this Sunday October 2nd, I might have to make up my mind MUCH faster than I thought...

 

[Skott]

Personally, I'd forgo the TU200 and just get the Q08. Why? Because the TU200 is essentially a Q08 with a handle but minus the upper fan port. If gaming is one of the things you want to do then that means a power ful CPU and GPU, which you'll want for gaming, is going to generate some heat. You'll want that extra fan port for exhaust. Or intake depending on how you plan to cool the case. Get a Q08 and a good harness or bag to carry it around if you want it portable. You can get a Q08 now so no waiting for the TU200 to release. Just something to think about if the TU200 interests you.

Edit: Apparently NewEgg just listed the TU200 on their site today.

 

[ekuest]

i had a problem with my h55n the other night where my computer wouldnt start after i put it to sleep, but i swapped out the gpu and then it booted. put my regular gpu back in and its working fine again. idk what the problem was. so far no problems to report on my h67n that i can remember. running a combo htpc/server with it and it rocks! also, i did get a mild overclock on my h55n but decided to go with an underclocked and lower clock setting instead. for the case, both the q08 and tu200 are awesome cases, and i would recommend either of them for a purely desktop use. but if youre gonna be transporting it a lot then i would really try to get something with a horizontal mobo. to answer your ssd question, it sounds like it wont be worth it to you. you wont see anything taking a few minutes to load with a 7200rpm drive. at most i would say 60 seconds would be the most you could shave off boot or map load times. if you can get a 2500k for $150 at MC and the h67n for $90 at newegg, youre well on your way to a kickass itx rig for a very reasonable price.

 

[Zap]

Is there a higher risk associated with SFF?

Risk of what? Maybe of discovering that most computers are just big, mostly empty boxes.

For example, do I start with choosing a MB first? or CPU first? or case first?

I'd say start with the case because that's where you would get your overall size and form factor. Choosing the rest of the parts comes easy once you settle on a case.

I have considered SSD. My only concern is that it seems to be quite expensive... What are the advantages of going this route?

Faster than a hard drive. Like what's the difference between a $500 GTX 580 and a $50 GeForce 520. Nothing one can do that the other can't, just a performance difference.

mITX - do you think that this is viable for gaming?

Absofuckenlutely! Why wouldn't it? As long as it can hold the CPU and graphics card you want to use, no problem.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0361415


GA-H67N-USB3-B3 LGA for 89.99 after mail in rebate?!! Ends this Sunday October 2nd, I might have to make up my mind MUCH faster than I thought...

Get your ass over there by TOMORROW, Saturday, October 1st. Why? They have the Core i5-2500K CPU on sale for $149.99 through tomorrow. What you need to do is to order online for in-store pickup, to make sure they have one set aside for you. May as well pick up the motherboard too while you are at it.

 

[ekuest]

Risk of what? Maybe of discovering that most computers are just big, mostly empty boxes.

hahaha so true. for example:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/22/matxn.jpg/
agree with zap on everything else too. go to mc asap!

 

[Greene420]

Wow, a 2500K for $150..... that is like getting your case for free, GO GO GO! that is wicked cheap for an awesome cpu

 

[Cov]

Is my idea of using SFF because it seems more practical and easier to transport misguided?

More practical and easier to transport without having to sacrifice performance = mini iTX is the right way.

I have read many posts where people have cautioned to check the measurements for cases and video card clearance.

You like the look of these PC cases?

Silverstone Sugo SG07 incl. 600W PSU = $210.-
Graphics card up to 12.2 inches / 310 mm

Shuttle SA76G2 AMD?

SH67H3 Intel?

Lian Li PC-Q25 B
Graphics card up to 320 mm

[Edit: wave this one, it hasn't got space for an ODD]

For example, do I start with choosing a MB first? or CPU first? or case first? My initial thought is I should find what MB I want and work my way around from there.

That's an interesting question I've never really thought about.

• what form factor?

• Low, medium or high performance?

• AMD or Intel?

• PC case according to form factor, with or w/o graphics card
• CPU, CPU cooler(?), graphics card(?), RAM, SSD(?), HDD, ODD(?), ...

I have considered SSD. My only concern is that it seems to be quite expensive... What are the advantages of going this route?

For me, a SSD is the best upgrade to improve system responsiveness. But can always upgrade later on, if you want.

I would need a very basic dvd drive to install games/software. This is something that I would want to spend the minimum amount on.

─► $21.-?

Really don't know what to suggest regarding your graphics card though.

You mention mITX - do you think that this is viable for gaming?

Like ekuest, Skott and Zap said, absolutely.

I did see mousemagicians build log, and despite the well documented process I think that is outside my comfort level as far as modding goes...

Yeah, I feel the same

 

[Swiss SG]

you could change the cpu to a 2500k for $150 right now at microcenter.

if you can get a 2500k for $150 at MC and the h67n for $90 at newegg, youre well on your way to a kickass itx rig for a very reasonable price.

Get your ass over there by TOMORROW, Saturday, October 1st. Why? They have the Core i5-2500K CPU on sale for $149.99 through tomorrow. What you need to do is to order online for in-store pickup, to make sure they have one set aside for you. May as well pick up the motherboard too while you are at it.

Wow, a 2500K for $150..... that is like getting your case for free, GO GO GO! that is wicked cheap for an awesome cpu

Haha!! I left for MC literally 3 minutes after seeing the MB for $85.99 (there were 3 in store) and the CPU for $150. Thanks for all the responses as well! Was comforting to see all the posts when I got back from the store!! Yay to "free" shipping!

And here we are:

Busy day will respond more in a bit RE cases etc...

 

[Swiss SG]

Thanks everyone for the solid info and recommendations.

I’ve narrowed my case selection down to the following three:
1) Sliverstone SG07
2) Lian Li Q11
3) Lian Li Q08


#1

Pros:
Modular PSU already included
Horizontal motherboard layout (I thought Ekuest made a good point about the GPU working with as opposed to against gravity. Any other thoughts on this?)
Cons:
A bit heavier than I wanted (5.8kg = 12.86 pounds) w/ PSU
Limited to slim ODD only

#2

Pros:
Smallest and lightest (2.42kg = 5.33 lbs!!!)
Still fits my current GPU
Cons:
Future GPU upgrades are very limited due to size (would you agree?)
Limited CPU cooler options (can I/should I even use anything?)
Airflow/heat concerns (or is this less important since I wont be OCing?)

#3

Pros:
Future upgrades - should fit most of everything
Lightweight (2.73 = 6.01lbs)
Cons:
Largest overall out of all 3


Regarding PSU's, I shouldnt go below 600W? (GA-H67N; i52500k; gtx460) Will this change much if I go the 570 route?

Also, what am I looking for regarding which PSU will fit in any given case? For example the Q11 says PSU length 180mm... what is this referring to when I'm looking at PSU specs?

Any recommendations as far as PSU's go?

 

[ekuest]

this is a pretty decent PSU calculator. putting in a stock clock 2500k and a gtx 460 gives a recommended wattage of under 350. i wouldnt go that low, because you may want to upgrade your gpu soon. i think you would be perfectly ok with a good quality 450-500W psu though. also, i still think you should go with the sg07, but my second choice would be the Q08.

 

[DesertCat]

As far as PSUs, the Silverstone Strider Plus 500W model http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256065 has been pretty popular with the Q8 and Q11. It's 500W, is modular, and is only 140mm long. The length is nice because that leaves some space between the PSU and the front fan. A 500W PSU is plenty for a mitx mid-range system. That's enough to run a GTX 560ti, a 4 core sandybridge CPU, a few drives, etc. and still have room to spare. It will handle a GTX 460 easily. To help with cable management in a small case, some people opt for the short cable set for that PSU (currently not in stock at Newegg but Amazon has them: http://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-P...KUN4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317682899&sr=8-1 ).

The SG07 has a bigger PSU but it's also the only one that can really fit larger graphics cards without needing to mod the case.

 

[darrella]

If you can wait a couple months, the SG08 looks pretty nice too.

Same as the SG07, but with USB 3.0 ports and a cleaner front panel.

 

[Skott]

I guess it comes down to personal preference and needs. Speaking for myself I'd go with the SG07 if I was wanting to go Lan gaming quite a bit. Q08 for desktop gaming use although you could buy a harness to carry it around as well. But thats just me. Any case with two fans beats out a case with one fan IMO. This from a gamer's perspective though.

 

[Swiss SG]

Ok, thanks to all the great input I've got 2 options lined up. Personally, I'm leaning towards the first:

Case: SG07 ($207-$210)
MB: GA-H67N ($86)
CPU: i5 2500k ($150)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright AXP 140. (fan off or on?) [$64 from ebay w/ free shipping]
ODD: Can I just hookup my current ODD and install everything open case and then just not have an ODD in my build?
HDD: still havent decided... most likely I will go for a cheap 7200 WD. ($60-$80)
PSU: SG07 stock PSU
RAM: 4g or 8g still not sure... most likely 8g ($60-$80???)
GPU: EVGA GTX460

Rough Total: $627 - $670

I might wait until the SG08 comes out to see the pricing. My main preference would be to go with the cheaper of the 2 cases.

OR

Case: Lian Li Q11 ($99-$120)
MB: GA-H67N ($86)
CPU: i5 2500k ($150)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright AXP 140 (fan has to be off?) or do I have use something else? ($64)
ODD: None or cheapest standard one I can find
HDD: I think I would have to use 2.5" as I think 3.5" would get in the way of my GPU? ($60-$100)
PSU: SILVERSTONE Strider Plus ST50F-P 500W ATX ($80)
RAM: 4g or 8g... most likely 8g ($60-$80)
GPU: EVGA GTX460

Minimum cost: $599

I save bit of money (~$27.00) by separately purchasing the case + psu but I lose 100W. Also, going 2.5" potentially ends up costing me more than 3.5" (?)

-----------------------------

I realize so far that everyone agrees that SG07 is the solid bet and appreciate any additional feedback on my build.

I would love some feedback on the Q11 build, I'm really drawn to it but seems like a tougher bet. Also, might be more heating issues... is this something that I should be concerned about given my current build? I saw a post where darrella had considered a Q11 build but went a different route (sg07?) instead due to heat concerns?

I agree w/ Skott, more fans the better, but I've decided against the Q08. I just don''t like it and I feel like the extra HDD space would be a waste for me since I want to keep parts to a minimum.

Thanks!!!

 

[Swiss SG]

If you can wait a couple months, the SG08 looks pretty nice too.

This case looks really nice. I like it better than the SG07. Is it also a little smaller?

 

[Swiss SG]

As far as PSUs, the Silverstone Strider Plus 500W model http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256065 has been pretty popular with the Q8 and Q11. It's 500W, is modular, and is only 140mm long. The length is nice because that leaves some space between the PSU and the front fan. A 500W PSU is plenty for a mitx mid-range system. That's enough to run a GTX 560ti, a 4 core sandybridge CPU, a few drives, etc. and still have room to spare. It will handle a GTX 460 easily. To help with cable management in a small case, some people opt for the short cable set for that PSU (currently not in stock at Newegg but Amazon has them: http://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-P...KUN4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317682899&sr=8-1 ).

The SG07 has a bigger PSU but it's also the only one that can really fit larger graphics cards without needing to mod the case.

I really appreciate this additional info regarding power consumption and details regarding clearance of PSU and front fan.

One thing that I noticed with the Q11 - it seems that the length of the graphics card is further limited by the front fan or can one just clear underneath it to span the entire case? I looked at the PDF specs but can't really tell...

 

[Swiss SG]

this is a pretty decent PSU calculator.

Mmmmm nice site! Def one for my bookmarks.

 

[wonSR4]

Ok, thanks to all the great input I've got 2 options lined up. Personally, I'm leaning towards the first:

Case: SG07 ($207-$210)
MB: GA-H67N ($86)
CPU: i5 2500k ($150)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright APX 140. (fan off or on?) [$64 from ebay w/ free shipping]
ODD: Can I just hookup my current ODD and install everything open case and then just not have an ODD in my build?
HDD: still havent decided... most likely I will go for a cheap 7200 WD. ($60-$80)
PSU: SG07 stock PSU
RAM: 4g or 8g still not sure... most likely 8g ($60-$80???)
GPU: EVGA GTX460

Rough Total: $627 - $670

I might wait until the SG08 comes out to see the pricing. My main preference would be to go with the cheaper of the 2 cases.

OR

Case: Lian Li Q11 ($99-$120)
MB: GA-H67N ($86)
CPU: i5 2500k ($150)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright APX 140 (fan has to be off?) or do I have use something else? ($64)
ODD: None or cheapest standard one I can find
HDD: I think I would have to use 2.5" as I think 3.5" would get in the way of my GPU? ($60-$100)
PSU: SILVERSTONE Strider Plus ST50F-P 500W ATX ($80)
RAM: 4g or 8g... most likely 8g ($60-$80)
GPU: EVGA GTX460

Minimum cost: $599

I save bit of money (~$27.00) by separately purchasing the case + psu but I lose 100W. Also, going 2.5" potentially ends up costing me more than 3.5" (?)

-----------------------------

I realize so far that everyone agrees that SG07 is the solid bet and appreciate any additional feedback on my build.

I would love some feedback on the Q11 build, I'm really drawn to it but seems like a tougher bet. Also, might be more heating issues... is this something that I should be concerned about given my current build? I saw a post where darrella had considered a Q11 build but went a different route (sg07?) instead due to heat concerns?

I agree w/ Skott, more fans the better, but I've decided against the Q08. I just don''t like it and I feel like the extra HDD space would be a waste for me since I want to keep parts to a minimum.

Thanks!!!

You can fit a 140mm fan on the AXP-140 in the Q11. I had it like that before I sold the case. In regards to the ODD, of course you can use it to just install Windows or whatever OS you go with and then not use it again. If anything, you can also install your OS via USB flash drive. 2.5" HD can be more expensive, hell I want a 1TB 2.5" HDD but it costs $110+

 

[darrella]

Case: SG07
.
.
CPU Cooler: Thermalright APX 140. (fan off or on?)

Fan off.
The 120mm fan included with the Thermalright AXP-140 is not required for safe operation as SG07’s included AP181 on top of the case can provide enough cooling to support CPU up to 95W power level.

This case looks really nice. I like it better than the SG07. Is it also a little smaller?

It appears to be the same chassis as the SG07.

 

[Swiss SG]

Any thoughts on the following?

SSD: Patriot Torqx 2 2.5" 32GB SATA II (on sale @ newegg $39.99 w/ rebate) Is this just money down the drain? I see this being possibly useful only as a dedicated OS drive?


RAM:
CORSAIR XMS3 8GB DDR3 1333 vs CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1600 low profile (both $54.99 @ newegg) Other than the small speed difference is there an advantage of one over the other considering they are the same price? especially since I dont plan to OC.

 

[darrella]

Any thoughts on the following?

SSD: Patriot Torqx 2 2.5" 32GB SATA II (on sale @ newegg $39.99 w/ rebate) Is this just money down the drain? I see this being possibly useful only as a dedicated OS drive?.

I've only ever used an SSD as either the only storage drive or as a cache drive using SRT.
Windows doesnt make it easy to separate Program Files from the root drive, but I'd be interested in knowing what real benefit can be realized aside from quicker boot times by implementing an SSD OS drive.

RAM:
CORSAIR XMS3 8GB DDR3 1333 vs CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1600 (both $54.99 @ newegg) Other than the small speed difference is there an advantage of one over the other considering they are the same price? especially since I dont plan to OC.

The standard Vengeance RAM heat spreaders will not fit under the AXP-140 heatsink, go with the XMS3.

 

[Swiss SG]

I've only ever used an SSD as either the only storage drive or as a cache drive using SRT.
Windows doesnt make it easy to separate Program Files from the root drive, but I'd be interested in knowing what real benefit can be realized aside from quicker boot times by implementing an SSD OS drive.

The standard Vengeance RAM heat spreaders will not fit under the AXP-140 heatsink, go with the XMS3.

Great thanks!

I should have posted that the vengeance is the low-profile.

I was just reading the gigabyte memory support list for the GA67N and I would have to downgrade the 1600mhz to 1333mhz anyway.

 

[Dangman]

Any thoughts on the following?

SSD: Patriot Torqx 2 2.5" 32GB SATA II (on sale @ newegg $39.99 w/ rebate) Is this just money down the drain? I see this being possibly useful only as a dedicated OS drive?

Outside of use as part of Intel's SRT as a cheap disposable SSD, pretty much money down the drain. Its real world performance is too low to make it a viable OS drive besides maybe for a router or something.

RAM:
CORSAIR XMS3 8GB DDR3 1333 vs CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1600 low profile (both $54.99 @ newegg) Other than the small speed difference is there an advantage of one over the other considering they are the same price? especially since I dont plan to OC.

Well the XMS3 has a weird variable voltage rating between 1.5V and 1.65V. Considering that the max RAM voltage for Core i series CPUs are 1.65V and there's been one or two instances of Intel refusing warranty after being notified of 1.65V RAM usage, go with the Vengence set since it's rated at a flat 1.5V.

ODD: Can I just hookup my current ODD and install everything open case and then just not have an ODD in my build?

You can if you want to.

HDD: still havent decided... most likely I will go for a cheap 7200 WD. ($60-$80)

I recommend this Samsung drive:
$60 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

I recommend the above Samsung over a WD drive because it's simply one of the better bang for the buck hard drives out there. WD does have a few drives that performs as well as the Samsung but they often costs $20 to $30 more. WD does have a few drives that cost the same as the Samsung but offers less performance. So in comparison to the WD, the Samsung F3 1TB is the better choice.

I save bit of money (~$27.00) by separately purchasing the case + psu but I lose 100W.

Actually the difference is bit higher: Remember that most PC parts draw power from the +12V rail. So you want the +12V rail as high as possible to accommodate your PC. In this case, the ST50F has 34A or 408W on the +12V rail. The PSU found in the SG07 has 46A or 552W on the +12V rail. So the actual difference between the two PSUs is 144W. I will note however that the ST50-F should still be enough for that setup.

 

[flopticalcube]

Haha!! I left for MC literally 3 minutes after seeing the MB for $85.99 (there were 3 in store) and the CPU for $150. Thanks for all the responses as well! Was comforting to see all the posts when I got back from the store!! Yay to "free" shipping!

And here we are:

Busy day will respond more in a bit RE cases etc...

I built my sons' systems based on the Gigabyte board and i5-2500k (as well as SG05 + 560ti), you will not be disappointed! Fantastic price you got there. Nice thing about the H67/2500K combination is if your discrete GPU fails for some reason you still have the ability to limp along gaming with the 2500K's internal GPU at low settings until your discrete returns.

 

[Swiss SG]

Well the XMS3 has a weird variable voltage rating between 1.5V and 1.65V. Considering that the max RAM voltage for Core i series CPUs are 1.65V and there's been one or two instances of Intel refusing warranty after being notified of 1.65V RAM usage, go with the Vengence set since it's rated at a flat 1.5V.

Interesting, I did notice that and wasnt sure the significance of it if any.

Do you know if there will be any clearance issue with the vengeance and the axp140? edit*** nm i answered my own question >.<"

 

[Swiss SG]

I built my sons' systems based on the Gigabyte board and i5-2500k (as well as SG05 + 560ti), you will not be disappointed! Fantastic price you got there. Nice thing about the H67/2500K combination is if your discrete GPU fails for some reason you still have the ability to limp along gaming with the 2500K's internal GPU at low settings until your discrete returns.

good to know, thanks for the input, I saw someone also started a thread, I was/am a bit concerned as well given the problems some people have experienced.

 

[Swiss SG]

I recommend this Samsung drive:
$60 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

Any thoughts on spending $10 more for this: Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

A reviewer stated: " there is no real performance boost between the sata 3 and sata 2 versions and 32MB cache vs the 64MB cache. its stated that all of these have speeds of 126MB/s.
This document is listed in the details. I did not notice this until after purchasing."

 

[darrella]

Any thoughts on spending $10 more for this: Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive...

My only thoughts are that I won't buy anymore WD products if I can help it.
I have had too many of them fail in the past. Maybe they have improved in the last 5 years, but I don't know.