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First PC Build, Beginner Qs

D

DKrebo87

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
153
Hi all,

I have some beginners questions I want to sort out before I order parts for my first build. I'll list all the hardware I've chosen below and list my queries after.

New:
Case: Cooler Master Elite 430 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119227

Motherboard: MSI Z77 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130645

CPU: i5-3570k Intel Ivy Bridge - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504

Optical Drive: ASUS 24X DVD Burner - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204

RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws Series DDR3 1600 16GB 2 x 8 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231489

Already Own:
GPU: Evga Geforce 560 Ti FPB 1GB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130604

PSU: XFX Core Edition PRO650W - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207014

HD: 1) Crucial M4 128GB SSD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148442
2) Intel 330 Series 120GB SSD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167121

OK, my questions are..
a) Does this case have better than average ventilation, and can I do without an aftermarket cooling system if I'm not OCing my CPU at first?

b) Should I top-mount or bottom-mount the PSU, and are there any extensions I should purchase to avoid complication?

c) Any recommendations or input regarding this hardware, it's compatibility, or different hardware I should consider within the same price range?

d) In total which cables/wires should I purchase to complete this build appropriately/safely and without headache?

Any other advice or information is welcome and appreciated in advance, I already have a PC tool kit that should be sufficient for this build (Rosewill 45-piece magnetic kit).

If you're interested in my current PC specs just ask and I'll post them, I just don't want to make this any longer. Thank You.
 
Please answer the stickied "ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FIRST!" so that we can help you better.

EDIT: Did you just order that GTX 560 TI or was that awhile ago? Same question for the PSU. What's the specs of your current PC anyway?
 
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1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Definitely gaming and web browsing, I'd also like to future proof it best as possible. Other media will be used too (CD/DVD burning, music, pics. Photoshop is possible)
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Definitely under $600 tax and shipping included.
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

USA, Long Island, New York
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Case, Motherboard, CPU, RAM, Optical Drive, Cables/Wiring
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
GPU, PSU and two SSDs listed in OP.
6) Will you be overclocking?
Not in the beginning, but very likely in the future.
7) 7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
I use a LCD TV as my display. 1920x1080 Resolution, 40" screen size.
Other Specs: http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/LN40C630K1FXZA-specs
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Within the next 1-3 weeks.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
Not completely sure. I know I have SATA III drives, I'd like to have the SLI/Crossfire option, I could have as many as 3 internal HDs if possible. Any info on this I'd appreciate.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Yes, I have Windows 7 64-bit already installed on a SSD that I'll be installing as the boot drive.
 
I purchased the GPU and PSU basically together earlier in 2012, I'd say around mid-late spring (northeast US). I realize I'll probably want to upgrade my GPU within the next several months, I'd like to stick with a single card set-up ideally, but won't count out an SLI/Crossfire.

Current set-up is a Dell XPS 420 with a Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0-Step Kentsfield, stock motherboard (BTX case I believe), 4GB RAM. I replaced the PSU and GPU which I'll be taking out and using for my new build and restoring the stock hardware. It's a solid PC, just completely proprietary and not so good ventilation. I'll keep it around or give it to someone close after I restore it as it's still fine for basic computing.
 
I'm in the township of Brookhaven, NY. I have Windows 7 64-bit SP1 Home Premium.
 
All right sorry for the questions but one more: Can you buy a few of the parts before October 31st?
 
I can't say it's definite, but there is a pretty good chance I can order them by the 31st.
 
DKrebo87 said:
OK, my questions are..
a) Does this case have better than average ventilation, and can I do without an aftermarket cooling system if I'm not OCing my CPU at first?
Click to expand...
The problem with that case is that it only comes with one fan. At $53 shipped, it's way overpriced if it's only coming with one fan. Not to mention the lack of cable management features and USB 3.0 makes this case a really poor buy considering that you can get a case with far better cooling, actual cable management features, and USB 3.0 for around the same price:
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case

With that said, if you can hold off on the case during those 1-3 weeks, the Corsair 200R should be in stock by then at its $60 MSRP. I would recommend that case over the NZXT Source 210 Elite:
http://www.corsair.com/en/carbide-series-200r-compact-atx-case.html

Either way, don't get that Coolermaster unless it's like $15 to $20 SHIPPED.

You could get away with stock cooling if you're not overclocking but it's a lot less time-consuming and effort involved overall if you install a 3rd party HSF from the get go. Think about it: Say you put together the PC now and get a 3rd party HSF a few months/ years from now. You would have to take apart the PC again, clean off the old thermal past, reapply the thermal paste, install the 3rd party HSF, and put the PC back together again. During all of that, you might cause a problem during the rebuild (i.e forgot a cable/wire, loose screws, ESD, etc). So that's a bit of effort and extra time spent. So might as well install a 3rd party HSF since you're going to have to build the PC anyway. That way, outside of just dusting the PC which you should do regularly anyway, you can OC the PC without having to take apart the PC again.

I recommend the Coolermaster Hyper 212+.
DKrebo87 said:
b) Should I top-mount or bottom-mount the PSU, and are there any extensions I should purchase to avoid complication?
Click to expand...
With any of the cases mentioned so far (the CM, Cosair, and the NZXT), the PSU can only be mounted at the bottom of the case. So you have no choice.

DKrebo87 said:
c) Any recommendations or input regarding this hardware, it's compatibility, or different hardware I should consider within the same price range?
Click to expand...
Just a few:
1) Note that you are now maxed out on RAM as Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit is limited to 16GB of RAM max. So if you ever decide to add more RAM, you will need to upgrade to Professional and above to get more than 16GB of RAM support. However, even with that 7 HP limitation, that G.Skill RAM is still a pretty good deal.

2) If you can order the CPU and mobo by October 31st, I highly recommend this CPU and mobo combo:
$355 - Intel Core i5 3570K + Asus P8Z77-V LK Intel Z77 Motherboard

If you buy the CPU and mobo from that above combo deal link, that'll knock off $25 off the cost of the motherboard which would actually make it cheaper than the MSI you chose above. The Asus is of slightly higher quality, has a better UEFI interface, and can OC a tad higher as well. So in other words, you would be getting a better mobo for less. That combo deal link does expire on October 31st.

DKrebo87 said:
d) In total which cables/wires should I purchase to complete this build appropriately/safely and without headache?
Click to expand...
The parts themselves already comes with all of the cables/wires that you would need.
 
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Sound good, you are right about the cooling for the time and money it makes sense to do it all at once, and as far as the case for the extra $10 and wait time is the Corsair considerably better than the NZXT? I kind of like the white too.
 
DKrebo87 said:
as far as the case for the extra $10 and wait time is the Corsair considerably better than the NZXT? I kind of like the white too.
Click to expand...
IMO yes. It's a bit roomier and appears to be slightly better built.
DKrebo87 said:
Thank you for the timely response too, much appreciated.
Click to expand...
No prob. Thanks for putting up with the constant questions.
 
Hey, Newegg just got the 200R in stock but it's priced at $80, for $30 less I'll prob go with the NZXT 210 Elite. In your opinion this is the best value for a case at $50?
 
Hey I ordered all the hardware, I ended up going with the 200R as it came to the $60 value. I'll probably be assembling either Tuesday or Wednesday, is there any precautions I should take or anything I might need to be aware of? Since I already have my SSD loaded with Win 7 and all of my data, will it be as easy as just swapping it into the new build, are there any settings I should look to change? Also do you recommend certain BIOS settings? Coming from a dated Dell motherboard there might be some options I'm not accustomed to.
 
DKrebo87 said:
is there any precautions I should take or anything I might need to be aware of?
Click to expand...
Don't set anything on fire. Computer hardware doesn't like that apparently.

DKrebo87 said:
Since I already have my SSD loaded with Win 7 and all of my data, will it be as easy as just swapping it into the new build, are there any settings I should look to change? Also do you recommend certain BIOS settings? Coming from a dated Dell motherboard there might be some options I'm not accustomed to.
Click to expand...
Wait, hang on: Did that Windows 7 come with that Dell? Or did you buy a separate Windows 7 copy?
 
Hah, alright I'll try not to use it as a bonfire. It was an OEM update version I bought off ebay, originally the Dell came with Vista.
 
I'll keep HF updated and let you guys know how everything is going early next week, hopefully it will be smooth sailing, thanks.
 
DKrebo87 said:
Hah, alright I'll try not to use it as a bonfire. It was an OEM update version I bought off ebay, originally the Dell came with Vista.
Click to expand...

Might be an issue since that OS key was used with an actual Dell system rather than a real OEM setup.

Assuming that isn't an issue, make sure that the SATA settings in your new mobo matches that of your old Dell mobo. So if the SATA setting is IDE in the Dell, then set the SATA setting in the new mobo to IDE. If the SATA setting is SATA in the Dell, then set the SATA setting in the new mobo to SATA.

Also back up anything on that SSD you may want saved in case you have to reformat and reinstall the OS.
 
Haven't really looked up that particular PSU, but if it's anywhere near close to it's rated output then yes it will handle it just fine. Your system consumption is well, well, WELL below 650W to begin with.
 
OK cool thanks, right now I have my Crucial M4 SSD and the original 500GB HDD that came with the Dell in RAID mode because it was the only option available to get the SSD to be recognized as boot. Although they aren't set-up in an array, they are in RAID mode, so I can't switch this to HCIE (?) mode since this motherboard never had it.
 
The new motherboard will have AHCI support, which is highly recommended for the SSD (if not both drives).

There are plenty of guides available on how to switch to AHCI mode after installing Windows. Search Google or Bing for "change raid to ahci" (without the quotation marks).
 
Hey just finished up, everything went pretty smooth. Only thing is my case's power led is flashing instead of staying solid, I'm not sure if this is normal on the 200R, I'll prob play around with the wiring, otherwise all is good, this thing is fast.
 
DKrebo87 said:
Hey just finished up, everything went pretty smooth. Only thing is my case's power led is flashing instead of staying solid, I'm not sure if this is normal on the 200R, I'll prob play around with the wiring, otherwise all is good, this thing is fast.
Click to expand...

It probably isn't normal. You sure it isn't the HDD activity led that is flashing? Power LED should most likely be solid when on and blink in sleep mode.

If indeed it is what should be the power button LED that is blinking, it might be a simple case of crossed wires. Not sure.
 
Yeah I had the power switch wire on the hdd pin, I went through the manual and they had a layout of the motherboard. I have a new issue, I was reading in a forum about overclocking and I came across a post suggesting to update the BIOS in order to get an up to date interface, so I did. Now my PC has been acting funny, USB 3.0 was on and off with my wireless mouse, overall boot time is considerably slower (Windows logo), and my LAN adapter seems to be running slower. Could this be due to communication failures or disruption? I just downloaded the newest chip-set drivers also trying to fix it, out of all the ASUS support for the motherboard should I just update everything (BIOS, Chipset, Audio, LAN, VGA, USB, SATA, Firmware) to their newest versions?
 
Sorry I know the issue doesn't really belong in this section, just wondering if you had any advice or know what I should do

I originally went from BIOS version 0404 to 0904, I experienced issues with the mouse and booting up, tried flashing it back to 0404 but it said "image outdated", now I decided to flash it back to 0812. I also reset the BIOS options to optimized default hoping it would help.

I just updated my chip-set driver to it's latest version too, it still re-booted pretty slow compared to originally. Here is the support page for my motherboard just in case you're interested: http://support.asus.com/Download.aspx?SLanguage=en&m=P8Z77-V+LK&p=1&s=39.

I thought maybe I should just update everything to it's latest version, I just don't want to make anything worse.
 
DKrebo87 said:
I thought maybe I should just update everything to it's latest version, I just don't want to make anything worse.
Click to expand...

Wait a sec, I just read back into the thread a bit more... did I read right correctly that you have your SSD and your mechanical HDD set up in RAID together? (Is that even possible??) Does the HDD have a copy of Windows on it too? If so, you do not want that. You want the SSD to be your OS/boot drive and the HDD for storage. When you said you couldn't get the system to recognize the SSD, did you have the SSD and the HDD connected to the system at the same time (when you first booted up the new system)?

I don't know for sure but if I had to guess I think you are probably having trouble with your operating system. I am having trouble understanding how you have the drives set up. I think something might be screwy because of how you had Windows installed on the old machine and then it not jiving now with the components on the new machine. Is there any way for you to back up your data and do a fresh Windows 7 install on the SSD alone? You bought the upgrade version of Win 7 to upgrade from Vista? IIRC, there may be a way to do a full and complete Windows 7 install (not upgrade) from that "upgrade" disk. I am going to try and find some info about that but you may want to google it yourself and see what you come up with. If it was me, I would really try to do a fresh install if at all possible. Do not do ANYTHING like that though until you are sure you can, otherwise you may be out another $100 buying a new full copy of Windows 7.
 
On my old PC I had my Crucial M4 and a 500GB Seagate in RAID mode, but they weren't set-up in an array (pooled together). Now I have 2 SSD's in my new PC, my SATA is set to RAID, but again they aren't in an array. I don't think it's the SSD because before I flashed my bios to the newest version everything was running fine, very fast boot times and everything was good until I flashed it. Even so I still eventually want to re-install windows so I can put my SATA to ACHI mode, but I'm pretty sure that isn't what is causing these problems. I just want to know if there's any harm in updating all of those components on my motherboard, I think it could possibly be communication errors between the components due to having the new BIOS and the other components with older drivers. What do you think?
 
I don't know what you mean by "communication problems" but you could try and update everything now and see if that solves the problem. Personally, I think your best course of action is to start fresh by doing a clean Windows 7 install.

Just so I am clear, in your new machine you will not be using the 500GB HDD and will only be using the 2 SSDs? One for the OS/boot drive and one for the bulk of your data files? Do I have that correct? Also, your copy of Windows 7 is from an "upgrade" that you bought completely independent of Dell but that you used to upgrade your Dell system from Vista, correct?

Because I read up on it and it seems that you can indeed, if you are willing to try it, do a clean and complete install of a full version of Windows 7 using a valid Windows 7 "upgrade" disk. If you do it, you WILL lose whatever data, programs, drivers, etc. you have on whichever SSD you choose to use, so, you MUST back up your important data from that SSD before trying it. "Data" meaning any important pictures, videos, bookmarks, email contacts, passwords to internet sites...whatever. All programs would have to be reinstalled. All of that means that, again if you choose to do a clean Windows 7 install, you might as well NOT update all of your drivers and such right now because you are going to lose them and have to reinstall them anyway after the fresh install of Windows 7. You can download/save them and put them on a thumb drive so that they are easily accessible after installing Windows if you want.

If you want to try a fresh install of Windows 7 let me know and I can give you a few pointers and provide you with some links to read up on it.

Edit to add: Oh, and btw, I am pretty sure you can set your drives to AHCI mode right now... without doing a complete reinstall of windows. Isn't there a section in your BIOS that just lets you choose AHCI mode for SATA? Have you tried simply selecting ACHI in BIOS?

Edit 2: Yes I think I know what you mean by communication problems...if you have drivers for old hardware from the old setup still on your main hard drive that you are now using on your new rig, then yes, that could create problems. You would want to try and uninstall any old drivers for all old hardware that is no longer in use and install the appropriate new drivers for whatever new components you have.
 
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Yes everything you relayed is correct, I might try it out it's just a pain backing everything up onto another drive. I've tried switching the setting to AHCI, I either get a blue screen or it just keeps resetting, in order for me to change the drive to AHCI I'll have to do a re-installation of Windows 7. I might just try updating the other drivers to see if that makes a difference, I don't think there is much of an advantage to being in AHCI over RAID. I just want my boot and LAN speed back.
 
DKrebo87 said:
I might just try updating the other drivers to see if that makes a difference, I don't think there is much of an advantage to being in AHCI over RAID. I just want my boot and LAN speed back.
Click to expand...

Sure, ok. My short answer, after all that is, no, I do not think you can make anything worse by updating your various drivers. Just make sure you have the correct drivers for your new components. A new SATA driver might screw things up - maybe - I don't know about that one given the way you have described your inability to simply switch to AHCI. That particular one might cause problems. I really don't know.

Another thing I would do first is I would look at your Device Manager and see if there are any "flags" (alerts) that something is working incorrectly, doesn't have the appropriate driver and/or is disabled. Click the Start button and immediately above it in the search field type in "device manager" (w/o quotes) and check it out.
 
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Alright, so I did a clean re-install of Windows 7 with my SATA controller set to AHCI. At first I was getting lightning boot speeds (within 10 seconds), and as soon as I installed my motherboard drivers off the disc I once again experienced hang-ups around the windows logo screen, sometimes the desktop and sometimes would lose display signal (up to long as a minute +). So I'm pretty sure there is an issue between the newer BIOS and some of the versions of drivers on the mobo disc, although my LAN and mouse have been running fine since. This is annoying the hell out of me it almost defeats the purpose of the SSD without the very fast boot, I'd like to fix it but at the same time I don't want to push my luck and create worse issues.
 
Did you try using updated drivers for the mobo from the website?
 
Not since I did the re-install, is that what you recommend, just update everything to their newest driver versions? I don't know why I flashed the BIOS, now it doesn't let me flash back to it's original version I guess it's outdated or has made permanent changes.
 
I should be able to download the latest drivers and skip over previous versions right?
 
Ok, I updated every driver I could for the motherboard, the exception being the VGA and SATA drivers, they prompted me with a message that my PC didn't meet the requirements to install the software (maybe because I'm using a dedicated GPU? Not sure about the SATA). I'm still getting the hang-up on boot, I'm not really sure what it is or what to do. I now have the latest BIOS, Audio Driver, Chipset Driver, Firmware and USB Driver. All the LAN driver did was install a diagnostic tool I believe, it wouldn't let me modify the software, only repair or remove. I guess I might just be stuck with it.
 
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