finally, my x800pro-xtpe gave up.

[The Batman]

Do you have any proof that is doenst? You honestly believe that ATI just tosses it in the trash and could care less about the loss? Common sense tells me that they just make up the cost of that loss elsewhere.

Appeal to Ignorance [ie we dont' know therefore it must be true] is a fallacy. Since you're the one making the affirmitive statement the burden of proof is on your ass.

Common sense tells me they raise prices because they know they can. Just like with gasoline. Oh wait no, it's those damned hill billies RMAing their cheap ass gas that's causing price inflation.

 

[darksynth]

Wow, some of you people really surprise me. Do you honely believe that the very few of us "enthusiasts" make even a small tiny little dent with rma's? We don't, if you are not aware we make up an utterly neglegable percentage of the overall market they are after. Just think about the millions of pc's that are shipped every year from the Dells and Gateways...

The real reason hardware costs so much might have something to do with the hundreds of millions of dollars spent in R&D.

 

[p0tempkin]

Wow, some of you people really surprise me. Do you honely believe that the very few of us "enthusiasts" make even a small tiny little dent with rma's? We don't, if you are not aware we make up an utterly neglegable percentage of the overall market they are after. Just think about the millions of pc's that are shipped every year from the Dells and Gateways...

The real reason hardware costs so much might have something to do with the hundreds of millions of dollars spent in R&D.

Goddamn, it's about time someone made a smart post in this friggin' thread. AMEN!

Overclockers make up a small percentage of overall users, and an even smaller percentage of RMA's. ATi doesn't "raise the price a few cents" for each RMA they recieve; otherwise we'd be paying 406.53 MSRP instead of $399.99.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Wrong, I'm not claiming that it doesn't raise prices. You're the one saying it does so it's your job to prove the point.

Exactly. You are trying to make a point, you gotta be able to back it up with some evidence if you want you "point" to be taken as "fact"

EDIT: I too would have no ethical problems RMAing that thing.

 

[Chaballaman]

i dont think enablin extra pipes is going to kill the card, i never heard of one 9500@9700 or 9800se@9800pro death. my 9500np@9700 still runs 100%.

i might believe it if more ppl reported dead x800pro vivo=>xt cards, but so far only one n it was oced very high. how can u only blame the mod n not the oc?

"all those ATI built x800pro w/ 1.6 samsung mem. and xtpe gpu core and rage theater chip actually were cards that have defective dies." lol, well most defective dies seem to be runnin fine.

maybe ati made the bs up hopin more ppl will buy x800xt instead of x800pro vivo. (they prob saw the most popular thread in ati flavor)

"I can't believe people actually think ATI is shipping working XT PE's as 12 piped X800Pro VIVO's. You may be able to flash an X800Pro VIVO to an X800XT PE but it would of never shipped as an X800Pro if something wasn't defective on it. I mean seriously, they can't even get a ample supply of X800XT PE's available and their using the few they have to mark down the price and sell it as an X800Pro VIVO?"
why not? maybe they needed vivo version of x800pro but it would be cheaper(n save time) for them to use x800xt(n change to 12pipes via bios flash) then making changes on x800pro.

 

[rancor]

Or just buy a Gigabyte VIVO for around 430, have all 16 pipes enabled stock, and then overclock it 50mhz. However, overclocking DOES void the warranty, it's just not something they can really check. So if you aren't concerned with the moral implications by returning a burned out card from overclocking, then why be concerned with one that you did a bios mod to. If the card is truly dead, won't boot up at all, then how can they check the bios version? Even if they do find out, you can play dumb. I don't think flashing a bios will void your warranty. At least it doesn't with motherboards.

A bios mod can be checked Also if ya get it from BFG, and pre overclocked cards, well there is no moral implications.

Also the Gigabyte Vivo, doesn't reach xtpe speeds, alot of people were complaining that it doesn't over clock well, actaully all vivos don't.

Modding a card from 12 to 16 pipelines is fine just don't over clock, this isn't like with the 8 pipeline chips. These chips are clocked very close to the limit as they are.

 

[rancor]

The only reason they charge $400+ for a video card is that they know we are pompous enough to pay for it. The only reason I would feel bad about RMA's my card was if ATi or nVidia were going to go bankrupt the next day. Don't be a dumbass and think these big companies are building cards just to make you happy and are barely making it by. It's business, it's their job to take your money. Just like it's good business for me to keep as much as I can

Ditto, it probably costs around 20-50 bucks to make each card. And they nV and ATi sells them to retialers about half the cost of the retail price. They are making money and lots of it.

 

[hamm3rhead]

A bios mod can be checked Also if ya get it from BFG, and pre overclocked cards, well there is no moral implications.

Also the Gigabyte Vivo, doesn't reach xtpe speeds, alot of people were complaining that it doesn't over clock well, actaully all vivos don't.

Modding a card from 12 to 16 pipelines is fine just don't over clock, this isn't like with the 8 pipeline chips. These chips are clocked very close to the limit as they are.

My unmodded Gigabyte x800 pro VIVO had absolutely no issues getting to xtpe speeds with stock cooling or beyond for that matter. I watercooled it and added ram sinks because I friggin wanted to mod it. Your blanket statements about "actaully all vivos don't" is based on what? The crap you read in this forum? I'd point you to a thread documenting many successes and few failures, But why? This thread along with many others in this forum has become yet another platform to make invalid judgments and roust the already rampant !!!!!!ism. !!!!!!ism at it worst is attempting to make people who chose differently then you, feel like they made a mistake. FFS there are a lot of people that just don't know any better and would be hard pressed to even ask a basic question without being bombarded by this.

 

[K10wN]

You sir are the reason hardware cost so much end of rant

Fucking idiot. It's called capitalism, I'm sure you'll learn by 7th grade.

 

[joEziLLAH]

Fucking idiot. It's called capitalism, I'm sure you'll learn by 7th grade.

I would definitely ignore The[H]uman, he never offers any insightful suggestion or even participate in the forums within a level of support, all he does is sit around and eat all day and criticize people's "wrong doings".

 

[dryars]

I think you guys are not seeing the big picture... I would still RMA that card in a heart beat... Yes he O/Ced it... but who allowed it to take place? ATI... they could easily make there bootroom verify for a valid bios, but they dont. Secondly, ati shiped a card with defective compononts.... for 400 dollars, aka 4 big ones you BET YOUR ASS i would be RMA'ing that card and you would also BET YOUR ASS that I would get a sucessfull RMA.

If a company is not adding enough safe gaurds to ensure the proper operation of there cards, then that is there problem.

Your first statement is about as assinine as saying "Mass genocide in parts of Africa is ok, because the governments are allowing it to take place."

As for your second comment, thats fair to RMA the thing if it was shipped with faulty components. But to make comments like "not enough safe-guards" in the companies process is again.. assinine. Exactly what safe-guards would you put in place? Are you familiar at all with manufacturing processes? Do you not realize how impossible it is to examine the quality of every component once a product is put together? There will always be manufacturing problems no matter where you are and what you buy.

 

[dryars]

Ditto, it probably costs around 20-50 bucks to make each card. And they nV and ATi sells them to retialers about half the cost of the retail price. They are making money and lots of it.

In terms of raw materials, it probably does, then you factor in other costs like logistics, packaging, marketing, manufacturing, and other human processes like QA, Testing, engineering/design, ultimately these add to the cost of "making" each card.

 

[dryars]

Fucking idiot. It's called capitalism, I'm sure you'll learn by 7th grade.

On the flip side, ATI can easily take a page from your idea of capitalism and tell the poster to go fuck himself and buy another card because he ain't getting an RMA for overclocking this last one.

 

[rancor]

In terms of raw materials, it probably does, then you factor in other costs like logistics, packaging, marketing, manufacturing, and other human processes like QA, Testing, engineering/design, ultimately these add to the cost of "making" each card.

Yeah thats about 50 buck

Raw materials is dirt cheap, a wafer a silicon is like a buck and thats not in bulk.

Lets explain this a bit more,

The retailers get a 100% profit when they sell a card. nV gets a 100% proft when they sell a card to retailers.

So break it down.

Lets take 300 bucks since that will be around teh average cost of cards sold.

300/2=150


150/2=75

75 bucks is the highest each card with everything ya mentioned included costs.

 

[rancor]

My unmodded Gigabyte x800 pro VIVO had absolutely no issues getting to xtpe speeds with stock cooling or beyond for that matter. I watercooled it and added ram sinks because I friggin wanted to mod it. Your blanket statements about "actaully all vivos don't" is based on what? The crap you read in this forum? I'd point you to a thread documenting many successes and few failures, But why? This thread along with many others in this forum has become yet another platform to make invalid judgments and roust the already rampant !!!!!!ism. !!!!!!ism at it worst is attempting to make people who chose differently then you, feel like they made a mistake. FFS there are a lot of people that just don't know any better and would be hard pressed to even ask a basic question without being bombarded by this.

Not all vivo's do. means most don't. And if they do, there is a specific reason they weren't an xt pe. You think ATi would be stupid enough to loose 100 dollars which they could get with thier eyes closed? Yeah thought so. ATi is in business to lose money not make it.

 

[hamm3rhead]

More noobie crap, all not all vivo's do. means most don't. And if they do, there is a specific reason they weren't an xt pe. You think ATi would be stupid enough to loose 100 dollars which they could get with thier eyes closed? Yeah thought so. ATi is in business to loose money not make it.

Again Mr Generality speaking like we know we are talking about. The VIVO success thread is far longer apparently then some peoples attention span.

 

[Terra]

Yeah thats about 50 buck

Raw materials is dirt cheap, a wafer a silicon is like a buck and thats not in bulk.

Lets explain this a bit more,

The retailers get a 100% profit when they sell a card. nV gets a 100% proft when they sell a card to retailers.

So break it down.

Lets take 300 bucks since that will be around teh average cost of cards sold.

300/2=150


150/2=75

75 bucks is the highest each card with everything ya mentioned included costs.

And the cost of R&D?

Terra - If people RMA bad OC's, then are no allowed to whine over prices...unless they are hypocrites...

 

[rancor]

Again Mr Generality speaking like we know we are talking about. The VIVO success thread is far longer apparently then some peoples attention span.

Dude go back and check the threads on what max clocks on xt pe's and pros get and then post. Is it logical that ATi will cut into profits if they don't have to?

No it isn't

Would you sell you card for $430 when you can easily get $500 for it? No you wouldn't. Its money in your pocket. You wouldn't do it why would ATi do it?

The vivo success thread, just tell me what your max clocks are, then you will know why ATi didn't make an xt pe! (air cooled before you get any artifacting or crashes)

 

[rancor]

And the cost of R&D?

Terra - If people RMA bad OC's, then are no allowed to whine over prices...unless they are hypocrites...

Thats with R&D and RMA's. There is no way nV or ATi or any chip maker or board maker will stay in business if they didn't have at least 100% profit.

 

[WuTangClam]

More noobie crap, all not all vivo's do. means most don't. And if they do, there is a specific reason they weren't an xt pe. You think ATi would be stupid enough to loose 100 dollars which they could get with thier eyes closed? Yeah thought so. ATi is in business to loose money not make it.

Before you call anyone a noobie, I would take a look at your join date and compare it to his. 20 more posts a day doesn't make you an expert.

True, not all VIVOs will reach XT PE speeds, but the vast majority will at least reach XT speeds and beyond without any modding. And the performance differences between 520/560 and something like 510/530(pretty conservative speeds) aren't exactly enormous.

BTW, how many VIVOs have you modded personally? You seem to post alot about this subject.

 

[rancor]

Before you call anyone a noobie, I would take a look at your join date and compare it to his. 20 more posts a day doesn't make you an expert.

True, not all VIVOs will reach XT PE speeds, but the vast majority will at least reach XT speeds and beyond without any modding. And the performance differences between 520/560 and something like 510/530(pretty conservative speeds) aren't exactly enormous.

BTW, how many VIVOs have you modded personally? You seem to post alot about this subject.

Lets see I have modded around 15 of them for friends, 3 of them have already burned out Also thats why I edited the post

The vivos seem to do fine, 6 of them weren't even vivos, but I wasn't able to get the clocks to 570 on the gpu to make sure they had reletively good margin of error to keep them alive. And 2 of the ones that weren't able to clock as high as the others were the ones that burnt out. The 3rd one the got fried was up to 540 max before I down clocked to 520.

 

[Evil Scooter]

The vivos seem to do fine, 6 of them weren't even vivos, but I wasn't able to get the clocks to 570 on the gpu to make sure they had reletively good margin of error to keep them alive. And 2 of the ones that weren't able to clock as high as the others were the ones that burnt out. The 3rd one the got fried was up to 540 max before I down clocked to 520.

It sounds to me like the failures were cooked by high OC's. IMHO these are more likely heat related failuers rather than death by the Pro to XTPE mod alone. My2c..

 

[rancor]

exactly, to get to xt pe speeds its possible, but the chip just won't last like it should at those speeds. And you're out of luck. You can't RMA it cause if it was modded from a pro. Thats why I always checked the highest possible clocks on the chip that way it gave a safe margin of error.

So if ya mod the thing, whats the use? The Vivo's come with 16 pipe just lower clock speeds, ya put it up to what they "should be" for an xt pe there is a good chance it will burn out and not last the lifespan. Thats what was it Sapphire? warned about.

 

[WuTangClam]

Lets see I have modded around 15 of them for friends, 3 of them have already burned out Also thats why I edited the post

The vivos seem to do fine, 6 of them weren't even vivos, but I wasn't able to get the clocks to 570 on the gpu to make sure they had reletively good margin of error to keep them alive. And 2 of the ones that weren't able to clock as high as the others were the ones that burnt out. The 3rd one the got fried was up to 540 max before I down clocked to 520.

15 of your friends bought X800 Pros? I thought you were recommending 6800GTs to everyone.
So you've successfully hard modded 6 ordinary X800 Pros into XTs? From what I hear, the hard mod is fairly unsuccessful. How did you perform the X800 Pro non VIVO -> XT mod so that you had such a high success rate?

 

[rancor]

15 of your friends bought X800 Pros? I thought you were recommending 6800GTs to everyone.
So you've successfully hard modded 6 ordinary X800 Pros into XTs? From what I hear, the hard mod is fairly unsuccessful. How did you perform the X800 Pro non VIVO -> XT mod so that you had such a high success rate?

Depends on the serial numbers, I think it was the ones with 630430 in the beginning of the thier serial number. Don't remember now, haven't done a regular pro to xt in while. And the pros were a hard mod.

I have friends that like ATi, I'm told them the differences they made thier choice, not like I'm in a position to tell them how to spend thier money. Just advised them not to get it.

And if ya remember the pros were out before any other card in these lines.

 

[Emret]

Lets see I have modded around 15 of them for friends, 3 of them have already burned out Also thats why I edited the post

The vivos seem to do fine, 6 of them weren't even vivos, but I wasn't able to get the clocks to 570 on the gpu to make sure they had reletively good margin of error to keep them alive. And 2 of the ones that weren't able to clock as high as the others were the ones that burnt out. The 3rd one the got fried was up to 540 max before I down clocked to 520.

I call the bullshit card my friend.. I seem to remember you as a Nvidia F4NB0Y, and if you do half as much of propoganda to your friends as you do here.. then I'm sure all of them got Nvidia cards

 

[rancor]

I call the bullshit card my friend.. I seem to remember you as a Nvidia !!!!!!, and if you do half as much of propoganda to your friends as you do here.. then I'm sure all of them got Nvidia cards

Now they did well the ones that are burnt out.

 

[Emret]

WuTangClam beat me to it.. I still call it bullshit

 

[rancor]

I call the bullshit card my friend.. I seem to remember you as a Nvidia F4NB0Y, and if you do half as much of propoganda to your friends as you do here.. then I'm sure all of them got Nvidia cards

LOL f4nboy? excuse me, ya might want to go over why I like nV's line this time around. I have reasons for liking them. Just like I liked the 9700's and the 9800's.

 

[K10wN]

GT's are much much easier to mod. I don't know why people would take a gamble with these VIVOs, the chances are slim to none as it seems.. So for only one person for whom it works at 100% XT speeds, and only time will tell how long that lasts...

 

[ozziegn]

rancor

so lemme get this straight.

you've modded like 15 cards now? if so, how many out of those 15 cards were VIVO cards and now many were hard modded?

and out of the ones that were the VIVO cards that I presume that you soft modded, how many of those cards have died NOT from being overclocked over standard (520/560) XT PE speeds?

 

[rancor]

6 of them were regular pros with that serial I mentioned above.

The others were all vivos. Yes the vivos were all soft modded. 1 of the pro's have burnt out and 2 of the vivos have burnt out all were clocked at 520

 

[ozziegn]

GT's are much much easier to mod. I don't know why people would take a gamble with these VIVOs, the chances are slim to none as it seems.. So for only one person for whom it works at 100% XT speeds, and only time will tell how long that lasts...

well, yeah but I've seen some posts from people who have had their 6800 GTs die on them for no apparent reason(s) as well.

so you can just isolate this sudden death syndrome to the ATi cards alone because it has also happened to some nVidia card owners as well.

 

[ozziegn]

6 of them were regular pros with that serial I mentioned above.

The others were all vivos. Yes the vivos were all soft modded.

and out of how many of the VIVO cards have died so far?

 

[rancor]

and out of how many of the VIVO cards have died so far?

2 of em, I only got 1 out all the cards to go safely at 570 to give me a 50 mhz buffer.

 

[ozziegn]

2 of em, I only got 1 out all the cards to go safely at 570 to give me a 50 mhz buffer.

what? you were running the core at 570 or the memory?

if that was the core, then gee, I cant possibly imagine why the card died on you.

 

[WuTangClam]

Depends on the serial numbers, I think it was the ones with 630430 in the beginning of the thier serial number. Don't remember now, haven't done a regular pro to xt in while. And the pros were a hard mod.

I have friends that like ATi, I'm told them the differences they made thier choice, not like I'm in a position to tell them how to spend thier money. Just advised them not to get it.

And if ya remember the pros were out before any other card in these lines.

So 15 of your friends bought X800 Pros, and the 6 of them that bought non VIVOs coincidentally bought cards that had a high rate of success for the hard mod. And now, despite performing the mod 6 times, you can't remember how to do it.

I don't recall you ever posting about all your experience with X800 Pro modding before, yet conveniently when someone asks you you've modded 15 cards personally. And you still bash the mod every chance you get, even after you've done it for 15 of your friends.

Didn't you explain to them that it would fail after the mod? Didn't you tell them that it doesn't have PS 3.0, making it outdated compared to the 6800GT? Didn't you tell them that Doom 3 runs so much better on the 6800GT? Didn't you tell them that the 6800GT overclocks easily to Ultra speeds and its safer?

Because you've said all of those things in support of the 6800GT on this forum. If you did tell them about all of the above, I'm wondering why they value your opinion so little.

 

[rancor]

So 15 of your friends bought X800 Pros, and the 6 of them that bought non VIVOs coincidentally bought cards that had a high rate of success for the hard mod. And now, despite performing the mod 6 times, you can't remember how to do it.

I don't recall you ever posting about all your experience with X800 Pro modding before, yet conveniently when someone asks you you've modded 15 cards personally. And you still bash the mod every chance you get, even after you've done it for 15 of your friends.

Didn't you explain to them that it would fail after the mod? Didn't you tell them that it doesn't have PS 3.0, making it outdated compared to the 6800GT? Didn't you tell them that Doom 3 runs so much better on the 6800GT? Didn't you tell them that the 6800GT overclocks easily to Ultra speeds and its safer?

Because you've said all of those things in support of the 6800GT on this forum. If you did tell them about all of the above, I'm wondering why they value your opinion so little.

When did I say I don't remember how to mod it, I don't remember the exact serial now

yes I told em them everything. I also knew after the first benchmarks were out, that the pro wouldn't be on top of the ultra after 1 or 2 driver revisions. They wanted to get it its up to them.

I guess you don't have many friends if you go around and tell them how to spend thier money would you? Do you do that. The pro was out well before the GT. Its not a value of opinion. I don't rub it into them. Maybe you do things like that. Is that why your name ends with "CLAM"?

As I've always said, both cards are good, just that the gt is better, but at the time the gts weren't out. Simple as that. I don't go around and advertise that the nV is better. I have better things to do when I'm with my friends, how bout you?

Doom 3 wasn't out then either. So all those ATi buyers didn't know about that till 2 months back either. So whats the problem there, I'm sure you like to around and court ATi with your friends, I just don't care either way.

 

[rancor]

what? you were running the core at 570 or the memory?

if that was the core, then gee, I cant possibly imagine why the card died on you.

I just tested it up to that high, never kepted it there

 

[ozziegn]

I just tested it up to that high, never kepted it there

$20 says that could be one of the reasons why it died.

I mean come on man, just getting up to normal XT PE speeds shouldve been more good enough for you (or anyone else) but to push the card an even 50MHz more?

my soft modded XT PE runs fine @ 520/560 so I damn sure aint pushing my luck any further than that.