Explaining Microsoft Surface Price

[MrCrispy]

Can we leave the Win 8 discussion/bashing out of this one and use the other 9839048324 threads for it?

An interesting debate would be - what if Apple had tried to sell the Surface? Consider that Microsoft has made every possible blunder in the Surface launch. If you were a competitor and were tasked to come up with a strategy to ensure failure, you could hardly do better.

Now think of a potential Apple approach - razor sharp single focus marketing campaign, catchy names (with no confusion) that don't change every week, no brand identity confusion with an OS, clear messaging to partners and customers, available after announcement, whole bunch of apps available at launch, developer goodwill. The price doesn't even have to change (maybe reduce the Touch cover to $50), and I'll even concede the Surface ad was sort of cool.

I'm sure with a few simple fixes, the Surface would have been a huge hit!

 

[stealthy123]

Can we leave the Win 8 discussion/bashing out of this one and use the other 9839048324 threads for it?

An interesting debate would be - what if Apple had tried to sell the Surface? Consider that Microsoft has made every possible blunder in the Surface launch. If you were a competitor and were tasked to come up with a strategy to ensure failure, you could hardly do better.

Now think of a potential Apple approach - razor sharp single focus marketing campaign, catchy names (with no confusion) that don't change every week, no brand identity confusion with an OS, clear messaging to partners and customers, available after announcement, whole bunch of apps available at launch, developer goodwill. The price doesn't even have to change (maybe reduce the Touch cover to $50), and I'll even concede the Surface ad was sort of cool.

I'm sure with a few simple fixes, the Surface would have been a huge hit!

It's not a marketing thing I don't think. People willing to spend a grand on a tablet already have an iPad and weren't ever going to buy a windows tablet, probably don't even have a windows PC in their house.

The techy crowd seems in love with android.

Power users, which ironically I consider this a forum full of, seem to think the kind of power in a surface pro should cost as much as an android tablet with specs not even close.

It really doesn't make much sense. I know for me, if I was going to buy a 1000 dollar tablet I would be getting a surface pro.

 

[heatlesssun]

An interesting debate would be - what if Apple had tried to sell the Surface? Consider that Microsoft has made every possible blunder in the Surface launch. If you were a competitor and were tasked to come up with a strategy to ensure failure, you could hardly do better.

Why do people keep making this comparison, it makes no sense. Microsoft CAN'T sell Surfaces in the super large numbers without causing issues with OEMs, that's not a problem for Apple. Name another PC that millions of people can now name with a simple word like Surface. Instead of the HP dmvx-3438.

We're less than two months into this, this was never going to be a 4 million unit a month product, Microsoft didn't want that and there are other goals besides pure sales that are stake here.

 

[SkribbelKat]

Yeah, these threads are so much better when people don't ask questions and or point out how things work for them. Yes, they are much better with mindless "Windows 8 sux" statements and name calling and personal attacks.

Seriously, you have nothing more to add to the thread than this?

Please don't start that. Globox is a respectable and upstanding member of the [H] community who has significantly and constructively contributed to many, many threads. I know you have a pretty low opinion of this forum (making me wonder why you post in the first place) but that's no reason to single out someone who's only trying to help.

 

[Ducman69]

Someone ought to explain simple economics to MS. As in simply put,the economy sucks. Why pay the outrageous price they're asking for the Surface when there are far cheaper products out there that are just as good?

Like what?

 

[SkribbelKat]

Like what?

 

[Tudz]

It really doesn't make much sense. I know for me, if I was going to buy a 1000 dollar tablet I would be getting a surface pro.

I'm much the same. I don't hate touch, I don't understand why people are so crazy about it, but I think it has a place and don't hate it or anything. But if I were buying a touch tablet/laptop, it'd either be much cheaper (as an auxiliary device which I don't want to waste money on) or it'd be much more expensive (a high end device). The $1000 price point seems to be one where, personally, I'd rather just buy a decent non-touch laptop or desktop (depending on the application).

 

[Ponder]

In regards to the Pro, people can't seem to understand that if you do not see the value of the device, you are not the target demographic.

It will be interesting to see if the market is large enough to support the device and the choices Microsoft made.

 

[DeathPrincess]

But when you do a left margin analysis:

You went into the margiin!!!

 

[Globox]

Yeah, these threads are so much better when people don't ask questions and or point out how things work for them. Yes, they are much better with mindless "Windows 8 sux" statements and name calling and personal attacks

sigh, know when to hold them and know when to fold them

Seriously, you have nothing more to add to the thread than this?

not sure if being insulted or intimidated



seriously... this is getting out of hand

 

[Monkey God]

Its too pricey. Microsoft sold the XBox360 for less than cost, yes? And managed to do very well over time. Most people aren't going to spend $1000 on a tablet just because. They might when they need a new computer replacement.

 

[Red Falcon]

What do you mean by "professional"? Is the Pro color calibrated? Do the availble touch photo editing suites have CYMK color profiles and color proofing? How does the Pro handle 600mp+ photos? Does the touch screen have angle awareness to pen strokes?

I couldn't have stated it better myself.
Seriously, nothing "professional", especially in digital art and imaging software, will be using a capitalistic tablet.

This is why the MacPro exists (almost the only reason).
Tablets for professional imaging, LULZ.

 

[Red Falcon]

I nominate this as the most nonsensical response of the day. For many years people have bought Windows tablets to do exactly what I listed.

No, it's called a Wacom tablet.
No one in professional media production would ever use a tablet's surface for this kind of work.

Who are these "people" you speak of and what exactly are they doing?

 

[Globox]

Its too pricey. Microsoft sold the XBox360 for less than cost, yes? And managed to do very well over time. Most people aren't going to spend $1000 on a tablet just because. They might when they need a new computer replacement.

Funny how a steambox is just that much more functional... Mmm Bitfenix

 

[Tudz]

sigh, know when to hold them and know when to fold them

I don't think heatless is a Kenny Rogers fan.

 

[Red Falcon]

Yeah, these threads are so much better when people don't ask questions and or point out how things work for them. Yes, they are much better with mindless "Windows 8 sux" statements and name calling and personal attacks.

Oh that's really funny, coming from YOU.

Bullshit . You were the one that kept making references about WHERE I worked. You're nothing but a coward.

It has nothing with proving you or anyone else wrong. You bought up the subject of where I worked and then compensation. You did. Now you walking away from it. You're a coward.

Feel free to shut the fuck yourself. You've made countless references about where I work and in this thread YOU bought up compensation, subjects you bought up first. You did. You're a fucking coward.

Dude, you started this bullshit. Where the fuck did I ever bring up how much you made? You're nothing but a coward.

Yeah, coward. Because again, who bought up the subject of compensation? You bring shit up and then run away from it as fast as you can. Coward.

And when you're called on your bullshit and don't answer questions you run like the coward you are,

Because you're such a nice guy!

 

[SkribbelKat]

Uh oh! You had to bring out that stuff again!

 

[rudy]

So many people here are so messed up in this very thread which should be full of smart people who know about hardware are pointing that out. MS did the right thing they came out with an ARM device first. ARM is the future because that is all people seem to focus on, the price.

An immensely more powerful x86 tablet cannot be sold at a $300 loss like some of you crack heads think unless they plan to get people to spend $300 average per tablet on apps. Which not even apple pulls off.

It is clear that most people are not smart enough to understand the difference and therefore clear why MS had to focus on ARM and put that out first and perhaps should not even bother with the pro. Way to many clowns in here who want something for nothing.

 

[Red Falcon]

Uh oh! You had to bring out that stuff again!

Anytime he talks about other forum members "insulting" him, I'm going to bring this up until he is actually respectful.
The fact that he threatened us all with a mass-banning was equally as ludicrous, when he was the only one in that thread to actually insult others.

Somehow, being called a 'coward' again and again just doesn't resonate well with me.
Since the mods did nothing to stop him, well, here goes his dirty laundry out the window!

 

[Globox]

An immensely more powerful x86 tablet cannot be sold at a $300 loss like some of you crack heads think unless they plan to get people to spend $300 average per tablet on apps. Which not even apple pulls off.

http://fortdodge.craigslist.org/sys/3335544913.html

 

[lapoune]

No, it's called a Wacom tablet.
No one in professional media production would ever use a tablet's surface for this kind of work.

Who are these "people" you speak of and what exactly are they doing?

Plenty of people do, I know many artists who use tablet pc's like Fujitsu's and the new samsungs with wacom digitizer. Very successful ones at that. Angle recognition isn't necessary at all, the usefulness is limited to very specific things and nothing you can't do easily without it.

I plan on buying a surface pro for this very purpose, the screen is better than pretty much any other tablet PC out there with a digitizer that has pressure sensitivity (which is far more useful than angle recognition), and I'm eager to see how good that bonded screen will feel to write on (supposedly the closest pen to screen distance if you believe microsoft).

So yeah for a lot of digital artist the surface pro is a dream come true. Think portable cintiq.

Might not be your cup of tea but saying professionals don't use tablet pc's for their work is ignorant. It's very popular these days.

Why people keep making these generalizing statements is beyond me...

 

[heatlesssun]

No, it's called a Wacom tablet.
No one in professional media production would ever use a tablet's surface for this kind of work.

Who are these "people" you speak of and what exactly are they doing?

You do realize that Wacom technology is in a lot of Windows tablets and that these things a considerably more portable that a laptop or workstation connected to a standalone tablet digitizer or a Cintiq?

If you want to have a debate about head over to TabletPCReview.com's forums.

 

[heatlesssun]

Think portable cintiq.

Exactly.

 

[SkribbelKat]

If you want to have a debate about head over to TabletPCReview.com's forums.

Just curious...are you maybe thinking about transitioning over to that forum anytime soon? I think the audience there would be more open to your ideas since its a collection of like-minded people that would adhere to the same ideology as you. You could make positive contributions over there. I totally encourage this.

 

[Red Falcon]

So many people here are so messed up in this very thread which should be full of smart people who know about hardware are pointing that out. MS did the right thing they came out with an ARM device first. ARM is the future because that is all people seem to focus on, the price.

An immensely more powerful x86 tablet cannot be sold at a $300 loss like some of you crack heads think unless they plan to get people to spend $300 average per tablet on apps. Which not even apple pulls off.

It is clear that most people are not smart enough to understand the difference and therefore clear why MS had to focus on ARM and put that out first and perhaps should not even bother with the pro.

I do think it was neat that Microsoft did break out of their x86 rut with ARM, but I'm just not seeing the sales figures that Microsoft needs.
Hopefully though, AMD will manage to break ARM into the enterprise market with 64-bit ARM processors, which might in turn, help Microsoft sell more ARM tablets and devices.

Way to many clowns in here who want something for nothing.

What do you have against us clowns, rudy?

 

[Red Falcon]

You do realize that Wacom technology is in a lot of Windows tablets and that these things a considerably more portable that a laptop or workstation connected to a standalone tablet digitizer or a Cintiq?

I did not know that, I'll look a bit more into it.

 

[heatlesssun]

Just curious...are you maybe thinking about transitioning over to that forum anytime soon? I think the audience there would be more open to your ideas since its a collection of like-minded people that would adhere to the same ideology as you. You could make positive contributions over there. I totally encourage this.

I've been on that forum for almost 7 years.

 

[SkribbelKat]

I've been on that forum for almost 7 years.

I wasn't asking how long you've been posting stuff there. I was asking if you were planning to stay over there rather than here with a uncooperative bunch who aren't really a good audience for your perspectives.

 

[heatlesssun]

I did not know that, I'll look a bit more into it.

The Surface Pro apparently however uses Microsoft's own optical digitizer, so there's a lot of questions about how that will perform versus Wacom tech and how well it works with apps, particularly Photoshop and pressure sensitivity.

Wacom tech also powers Galaxy Note devices, what Samsung calls s-pen for some reason.

 

[stealthy123]

I wasn't asking how long you've been posting stuff there. I was asking if you were planning to stay over there rather than here with a uncooperative bunch who aren't really a good audience for your perspectives.

you are far more likable when you are being a clown than when you are picking fights with folks. Just saying.

 

[heatlesssun]

I wasn't asking how long you've been posting stuff there. I was asking if you were planning to stay over there rather than here with a uncooperative bunch who aren't really a good audience for your perspectives.

Cooperation is irrelevant. I am simply stating my opinions and what I know about this stuff. Even Red Falcon learned something today.

 

[SkribbelKat]

you are far more likable when you are being a clown than when you are picking fights with folks. Just saying.

Uh..huh? What are you talking about?

 

[SkribbelKat]

Cooperation is irrelevant. I am simply stating my opinions and what I know about this stuff. Even Red Falcon learned something today.

Yeah, but I don't think any of us wanted to know that about Tudz' keyboard so it was more like an unwanted lesson.

 

[Red Falcon]

The Surface Pro apparently however uses Microsoft's own optical digitizer, so there's a lot of questions about how that will perform versus Wacom tech and how well it works with apps, particularly Photoshop and pressure sensitivity.

Wacom tech also powers Galaxy Note devices, what Samsung calls s-pen for some reason.

Stylus-pen maybe?

Actually, since one of my family members is starting to expand their artistic talents (non-pro at the moment), I was actually seriously considering getting them a laptop with Windows 8.
However, a Surface tablet after you told me that, made me think that it may actually be the better choice. Thanks for that.

Yes, even though I may dislike the product, I am starting to see that it might potentially have some nice functions.
I never realized it used Wacom tech in the screens.

 

[heatlesssun]

Yeah, but I don't think any of us wanted to know that about Tudz' keyboard so it was more like an unwanted lesson.

Red Falcon made the point that professional artists used Wacom tablets. I pointed out to him that a lot of Windows tablets use exactly the same technology. It's also the same technology that's used in the Galaxy Note devices.

Leave well enough alone if you don't want here anymore.

 

[Red Falcon]

Even Red Falcon learned something today.

Yes, and without any insults to boot, it was nice.

 

[Globox]

Cooperation is irrelevant. I am simply stating my opinions and what I know about this stuff. Even Red Falcon learned something today.

yeah we figured

 

[SkribbelKat]

Leave well enough alone if you don't want here anymore.

What?

 

[Red Falcon]

I think I just need to stop posting in Microsoft threads.
Every time I do, it descends into madness, rage, hatred, and Linux.

Everything was fine in the thread, everyone was happy, then *BOOM*, I make a post and total anarchy takes over.
I'll just leave you guys to your devices, no pun intended.

 

[heatlesssun]

Yes, and without any insults to boot, it was nice.

It is isn't it?

One thing to note, the Surface Pro apparently does NOT use Wacom technology but Microsoft's own patented optical pen technology. It may have issues with pressure sensitivity in apps like Photoshop that are very tied to Wacom's implantation of pressure. We'll have to wait and see how it works, it could make or break this device as a digital pen and good performance are big reasons why people buy devices like this.