Explaining Microsoft Surface Price

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I'm glad this guy thinks he has it all figured out because I sure don't know what Microsoft's thinking is. If it were me, I'd drop the price of the Surface Pro by at least a couple hundred bucks, pretend like the RT never happened and build an install base that way.

The question is whether Microsoft will be successful in shifting to this new computing model? Microsoft’s problem is not that it has difficulty offering an operating system for tablets. The problem is that the economics of both systems and application software on tablets is destructive to its margins.
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Steve said:
I'm glad this guy thinks he has it all figured out because I sure don't know what Microsoft's thinking is. If it were me, I'd drop the price of the Surface Pro by at least a couple hundred bucks, pretend like the RT never happened and build an install base that way.
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If they dropped the price of the Pro by several hundred bucks they'd sell a lot of them. If they sold alot of them, Apple would somehow find (and patent) a way to cry foul, and complain about monopolistic and non-competitive behavior.
 
Someone ought to explain simple economics to MS. As in simply put,the economy sucks. Why pay the outrageous price they're asking for the Surface when there are far cheaper products out there that are just as good?
 
They can't because of:
monopoly_man-13539.jpg
 
michael.pa2 said:
Someone ought to explain simple economics to MS. As in simply put,the economy sucks. Why pay the outrageous price they're asking for the Surface when there are far cheaper products out there that are just as good?
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There are products that are better and cheaper... and have a LOT more support. The RT is going to be a flop, mostly because of the ARM and the lack of legacy support. The Pro might live, it's the only decent viable platform metro style windows 8 can run on, and the only one it should be on. They never should have released windows 8 with metro for the desktop.
 
I don't see many if any core i5 tablets with 1080p screens available for less.

I really don't get why people bitch so much about this, it seems market competitive for the specs.
 
The problem I am seeing is that MS wants to make money off of licensing their OS and their APP market. If they are not careful with how they price their own hardware, then they can scare away other developers because they would not be able to compete in price. Which while that may not have much effect because the user base is the main thing holding it back, it could hinder the growth later on once adoption picks up.

In all honesty, MS needs to provide the tablet versions for a lower fee or free. They are going to have a hard time competing against apple in the closed platform market, and Google has dominance in the open market. They just need to do what they did with the Xbox and brute force their way into it. Making sissy steps is not going to get them anywhere.
 
Aseras said:
There are products that are better and cheaper... and have a LOT more support. The RT is going to be a flop, mostly because of the ARM and the lack of legacy support. The Pro might live, it's the only decent viable platform metro style windows 8 can run on, and the only one it should be on. They never should have released windows 8 with metro for the desktop.
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I have been using windows 8 for a while now, the only time I see metro is when I reboot or I want to click on the calculator fast. I don't use start 8 or any of the other start button returning gimmick things. Windows starts I click on desktop and my computer pretty much works like it always has.

I don't at all see why people bitch and moan so much, win 8 is pretty great.
 
stealthy123 said:
I don't see many if any core i5 tablets with 1080p screens available for less.

I really don't get why people bitch so much about this, it seems market competitive for the specs.
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But does it need those specs. For the things people actually use tablets for (media consumption and occasional lite production) do you really need an i5? The extra "power" gains you nothing really in tablet situations, especially with low end stuff like metro applications, so it's needless expense.
 
I still feel like their pricing isn't that crazy, and it's a way to force the OEMs to undercut, therefore making cheaper options. Feels like marketing to me.
 
stealthy123 said:
I have been using windows 8 for a while now, the only time I see metro is when I reboot or I want to click on the calculator fast. I don't use start 8 or any of the other start button returning gimmick things. Windows starts I click on desktop and my computer pretty much works like it always has.

I don't at all see why people bitch and moan so much, win 8 is pretty great.
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It doesn't work for some because they use their computers differently than you.

Just like tablets were suppose to replace laptops...
 
Vicinity said:
Pro at 399-499, I'd consider one. Anything higher, nahhh.
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I agree, but there's no way they are making money on it at that price. Not that I care haha, but that's the only way I'm buying on. TBH, I would probably sell off my Nexus 7 at that point.
 
stealthy123 said:
I don't see many if any core i5 tablets with 1080p screens available for less.

I really don't get why people bitch so much about this, it seems market competitive for the specs.
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I know it doesn't have a core i5, but the Nexus 10 has 2560x1600 resolution for only $399.
 
OregonLAN said:
It doesn't work for some because they use their computers differently than you.

Just like tablets were suppose to replace laptops...
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I guess, but I can pin programs to metro if I need fast access that way, file manager works like it always did, I can put shortcuts to stuff I need on the desktop.

I don't know.
 
Google makes like 10 dollars on the Nexus 7. If it was priced any higher, I don't think it would have got quite the reception it did.

I was going to buy a Surface over a N7, until I found out what MS was asking for it, now I'm going to order a N7 sometime this month.

$$$ always triumphs features.
 
As a Surface RT owner.. I think that the price is fair. You get a hybrid device that you can use on the couch as well as on a desk. The hardware is top notch.. it seriously is a solid piece of metal, makes the ipad seem chintzy almost.

To each his own.. but I'm really surprised how good the Surface RT Is despite a few shortcomings (no bleeding edge SoC. The ability to use the tablet in multiple form facts is amazing and I don't know why everyone is hating so hard.
 
DeathPrincess said:
But does it need those specs. For the things people actually use tablets for (media consumption and occasional lite production) do you really need an i5? The extra "power" gains you nothing really in tablet situations, especially with low end stuff like metro applications, so it's needless expense.
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Professional digital art and imaging software,
 
heatlesssun said:
Professional digital art and imaging software,
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+1! It's the most elegant solution ever for photography professionals. Just think of how easy it is to use a compact flash memory card on a Surface. Then again, who needs CF cards when the built in camera quality puts most high-end cameras to shame which means I just have to carry the Surface when I'm taking people's wedding pics or I'm at a school snapping photos for the yearbook.
 
In regards to the Pro, people can't seem to understand that if you do not see the value of the device, you are not the target demographic.

I need to run a host of apps that are written for windows, and windows only. (Both proprietary, and legacy, a deadly combination)

I could care less about the ipad or the nexus 10, because they are toys that don't run real, honest to god applications in the same manner as my luggable laptop and desktop.

Compare apples to apples - look at machines with similar specs that run windows. The surface pro is an excellent solution.
 
heatlesssun said:
Professional digital art and imaging software,
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What do you mean by "professional"? Is the Pro color calibrated? Do the availble touch photo editing suites have CYMK color profiles and color proofing? How does the Pro handle 600mp+ photos? Does the touch screen have angle awareness to pen strokes?
 
DeathPrincess said:
What do you mean by "professional"? Is the Pro color calibrated? Do the availble touch photo editing suites have CYMK color profiles and color proofing? How does the Pro handle 600mp+ photos? Does the touch screen have angle awareness to pen strokes?
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A large percentage of the people buying the Pro are going to use them digital art and imaging software that doesn't run on lesser hardware.
 
heatlesssun said:
A large percentage of the people buying the Pro are going to use them digital art and imaging software that doesn't run on lesser hardware.
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There's a big difference between some random people dabbling in that software and professional work, where the quality of the image and the color accuracy determine the quality of their product and directly impact their paycheck.

Giving the tablet to a 5-year old so they can draw on it with Photoshop isn't professional work.

Think about it. You wouldn't buy $150 software unless you were going to use it professionally, and probably wouldn't be working on a tablet anyway.
 
The Surface Pro is just another tablet. It just so happens that it doesn't use a gimped OS on gimped hardware, that is to say, Windows RT. My issue on the Surface Pro isn't so much price but on just how lost it seems to be as a device. It wants to be a tablet, but is around as heavy as ultrabooks but lacks the battery life that those devices have. It wants to be a laptop but you have to purchase additional hardware to make that practical, namely the keyboard case. It wants to be a shining example of The Interface Formerly Known As Metro, but is relegated to being hidden away in the handful of Microsoft Stores that are sparsely plopped across the nation. The way I see it is that Microsoft lacks the confidence to really push forward on their product, largely because they don't want to piss off their OEMs. But, with OEMs not really wowing consumers with amazing hardware if they truly want the platform to not just survive, but to thrive, they need an all-star piece of hardware (and an all-star price).

If a piece of hardware is being touted by proponents with the caveat of, "if you don't like it, it's because it doesn't fit your usage patterns" that's a bad sign. People who had no interest in tablets suddenly bought the iPad in droves. Same goes for many of the best-selling models of smartphones. People who otherwise were inclined to something else suddenly saw a piece of hardware so appealing that they went and plunked down the dosh for it even if they didn't know exactly what they could do with it. And I just do not see Microsoft pulling off the wow-factor of Apple nor the "it's cheap enough that I'll get it to play with it" that has brought great success on the part of Google's tablets. If Windows RT is an awkward in-between of WP8 and W8, then the Surface Pro is the awkward in-between of disposable tablets (cheap Androids) and the combination of ultrabooks, laptops, and the expense king, iPad. From a consumer's standpoint, a tablet is a tablet. And you're going to have a hard time getting a consumer to understand why they should pay even more than the iPad's price just because it has Windows. Because, the dirty little (non)secret is that consumers are for the most part just as able to do what they want on the cheap Androids or the iPad without Windows.
 
Globox said:
agreed, the price they're offering it at is lunacy
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Just not possible. The BOM alone is most certainly higher than $399, and most likely higher than $499. In fact, I'd find it very hard to believe that the BOM could possibly be any less than $499 unless they're getting an absolutely killer deal on the CPU and on the display panel.
 
SkribbelKat said:
+1! It's the most elegant solution ever for photography professionals.
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Don't the majority of professional photographers use Macs?

Aren't Apple devices, the most popular digital cameras now?

iPad 4 has a higher resolution display than the Surface Pro.
 
BladeVenom said:
Don't the majority of professional photographers use Macs?

Aren't Apple devices, the most popular digital cameras now?

iPad 4 has a higher resolution display than the Surface Pro.
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the majority of the users are either trolls or hipsters, DSLR still reigns supreme
 
blinx said:
As a Surface RT owner.. I think that the price is fair. You get a hybrid device that you can use on the couch as well as on a desk. The hardware is top notch.. it seriously is a solid piece of metal, makes the ipad seem chintzy almost.

To each his own.. but I'm really surprised how good the Surface RT Is despite a few shortcomings (no bleeding edge SoC. The ability to use the tablet in multiple form facts is amazing and I don't know why everyone is hating so hard.
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People are hating the Surface because they don't understand the target audience. It's more than just a tablet, it's really a workstation capable machine in a tablet form factor.. and the Pro is even better.because it comes with a Wacom tablet built in. You can't use a regular stylus on any other tablets because they don't have a digitizer.
 
pelo said:
There's a big difference between some random people dabbling in that software and professional work, where the quality of the image and the color accuracy determine the quality of their product and directly impact their paycheck.

Giving the tablet to a 5-year old so they can draw on it with Photoshop isn't professional work.

Think about it. You wouldn't buy $150 software unless you were going to use it professionally, and probably wouldn't be working on a tablet anyway.
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You think people pay this kind of money for a tablet only to dabble? This is a bad forum to get much information on how people used these kinds of devices, if you go to a place like TabletPCReview.com you get a much better picture of what people do with this kind of hardware.
 
heatlesssun said:
You think people pay this kind of money for a tablet only to dabble? This is a bad forum to get much information on how people used these kinds of devices, if you go to a place like TabletPCReview.com you get a much better picture of what people do with this kind of hardware.
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We're glad you're here to shed just a little of your holy light upon us. Thanks for acting as the guiding beacon in a belief system based on touch. You should give it a catchy name like "Smudgism" or something so simple minded people here who don't use MS Office professionally like you do can have a better chance at mental categorization of the many nuances and finer points they don't yet comprehend.
 
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