Equipment for a bare bones dedicated folding rig

amdgamer

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Hey guys, I wanted to start a thread about this. I am currently folding with my gaming/workstation desktop and laptop 24/7 right now. However, I am considering building a barebones folding only rig when the AMD Thuban sex-cores hit the market soon. That way, I can just use a single rig to do all of my folding 24/7 and put it in another part of the house that doesn't get as hot. Because my computer room gets so hot in the summer, my desktop and laptop will no longer be folding during the day soon as the 8000btu window unit will not be able to keep up. This is the only room in the house on the top floor that isn't climate controlled with the rest of the house(dunno why, wanna kick the ass of whoever built this house 60 years ago). I can't upgrade the window unit because this circuit cannot handle any more juice without some expensive wiring work being done.

To do a barebones rig that won't do anything else other than folding, what would I need? I know that AMD isn't the best at folding, but I only buy AMD. The leaked pricing information for the Thubans also show that they are going to be really cheap at $300 and less for the top of the line one.

1. I will likely go with a Gigabyte GA-790XTA-UD4 motherboard as I have this in my current desktop and really love it. This is one helluva motherboard for the price.

2. Processor will definately be a Thuban. Depending on what I can afford to spend, it will be something in between 2.8ghz to the top 3.2ghz X6.

3. Then I need ram. How much ram would I have to be looking to purchase? I keep reading that ram speed is very important to folding, but I doubt an AMD 6 core will be able to do a -bigadv and will likely have to stay with the SMP client. Is it true that you still have to have an 8 core processor to be assigned a -bigadv? Would having a full 8 gigs of DDR3-1600 help or what would be the smallest amount of ram I could get away with and still have the client assign me significant WU's?

4. Video card. Would it be worth it to also run the GPU client? I think I read somewhere that the GPU client can hurt points production because it still requires some cycles from the cpu to run. It can also add a layer of complexity. If a GPU will help boost points, then it has to be a cheap ATI video card as my budget will not allow for much. It has to be an ATI since I love AMD so much :) Suggestions on what might be the best "value" for a cheap video card? Budget for a video card would be likely a max of $100

5. I have an old Antec 550watt PSU. Think this will still be good? It is 5 years old from my previous desktop and was never pushed very hard. I didn't have the SLI setup in that rig for a long time as I ended up selling one of the 7800GTX's when I bought my Xbox 360.

6. Still have my old Cooler Master case from a long time back from my previous gaming desktop that went out. I had it fitted with VERY high flow fans.

7.Anything I am missing? I have an old mouse, IBM keyboard, and an old IBM 15'' CRT monitor I can hook up to it.

8. Oh, I will need a wireless setup to hook it up to my router. I have never done wireless before as I bought a wireless N router and still hardwire everything to it. What would I need to do that? Do those little wireless pen drive things that you stick into the USB port actually work? I saw those at Micro Center yesterday when I went to buy more printer paper.

9. Operating System. Buying another copy of Windows 7 x64 is not cheap. However, I am not sure I would know how to run Linux as i've never tried it. Would it be easy to install drivers and set up the folding client if that is all i'll be using the OS for anyway?

Please be patient with me. I am still trying to learn the ropes and this Folding bug has really bitten me hard. I will do my part for the team.
 

gwarren007

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1. good choice for a mobo.
2. Fit the budget with what you can. Don't count on big adv, use the smp client with the A3 wu's.
3. get 2gb (see question 9)
4. Spend most of the budget here- get a New 480 (Nvidia)
5. get a new Psu- You'll need it.
6. it will work
7. it will work
8. Yes they work
9. Since you need just the basics, XP on the cheap is a good choice.
 

Mr. Pedantic

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(i) Why do you buy only AMD? Intel CPUs give much greater advantages over AMD's for folding. Plus Intel gets hyperthreading.

3) Unless you overclock, then no. A six-core will not be able to do it. So if you're overclocking, then you'll want 8GB, probably. If not, you'll do fine with 2GB. As for type, cheap is good.
4) This is an even worse decision than deciding to go with an AMD CPU. At the moment Radeon cards SUCK for folding. I cannot emphasize this enough. If you run the SMP2 card, the increased production from the Radeon will barely cover the decrease that the extra CPU cycles will wreak on the SMP client, since it's thread-organized. No good. Just rely on the integrated video from the mobo.
5) Yes, it will work fine. Especially if you're not getting a GPU.
9) It's up to you. XP will do fine; however, if you decide to run a Linux distro (and I recommend you do, if for nothing else than to broaden your mind), then there are lots of people on these forums that will help you get it up and running and who will answer any questions you may have.
 

lehmann

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My i5-750 folds just fine on 2 1gig sticks. though 4 gigs doesnt cost much more. for folding a $200 i7-930 is about as good as it gets for now smp or bigadv.
 

musky

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Judging from the name, I am going to guess that Intel is out. I will say that Intel is way more bang for the buck than AMD for folding, but do what you want.

Linux + wireless = heartbreak and frustration from my experience. You have to be careful which wireless card you get, as some just refuse to work in Linux. I am insall Windows 7 as we speak on my one I7 rig with a wireless card. YMMV of course. The USB donggles are fine, especially with Windows. You may save a buck with an older PCI card. Heck, I'll give you a PCI cards to try if you can use it. Again, it depends on your OS. I have two don't work in Linux or Win7, but worked like champs in Win2000 and should be fine in XP.

Sadly, you will probably do better ppd with GPU folding than CPU folding with this rig. Look for deals on used 260/275/280/285 GTXs if you are on a tight budget. Your PSU should run a single card without issue. If you must have ATI, then you are kind of stuck waiting for better support from the GPU client.
 

amdgamer

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Unfortunately, I am well aware now that AMD just cannot keep up with Intel when it comes to folding, but it is a matter of principle for me as I have never liked Intel. We are talking AMD Fanboyism to the extreme as I have alway gone on the principle that consumers will be much worse off if AMD goes under and Intel has no more competition. Most of us remember a time when Intel was able to literally charge monopoly pricing for processors that didn't change much until AMD actually became a serious competitor. I have always also gone on the principle of value as I never have needed the kind of processor power you get in the top of the line Intel stuff. After all, the vast majority of games are limited by your GPU and not your CPU.

This sentiment of mine has translated to the GPU market as well as I do not like nVidia based on what they have been doing in the last few years. This TWIMTBP crap is really hurting PC gaming in my opinion and I don't buy this Physx stuff either as I more or less see it as an excuse to get people to buy another video card doing something that a cpu could easily be doing. Especially since quad cores are now becoming the standard, there is a lot they can do since games almost never fully utilize a processor. Once a proper GPU client is released, what do you think theoretically a new Fermi 480GTX will be capable of doing ppd wise?

Now that you guys mention it, maybe I will consider a rig with integrated graphics for now since a top of the line video card will definately not be in my budget and it appears running a lower end card wouldn't be worth it. This would give me flexibility in the future where I could add graphics cards as my budget allows.

As for overclocking, how far do you guys think theoretically a 3.2ghz Thuban would need to be overclocked to be able to do a -bigadv with a reasonable amount of time left? I hear that even Core i7's need serious overclocks to make the bonus deadlines. Since I am a set and forget type of person, perhaps SMP might be a easier way to go with more peace of mind.

If wireless and Linux don't exactly match, perhaps it will be for the best to stay with a Windows platform. I will just have to try and find someone who still sells Windows XP.

I have gotten bitten by this folding bug, but it also breaks my heart as I am finding my favorites like AMD and ATI don't exactly do very well :(
 

musky

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You don't have enough cores to even try a bigadv. You need 8 available minimum. They can by virtual, which is why the I7's with HT work. With only 6 physical cores, Stanford won't assign you a bigadv. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but that has been my experience.
 

Cypher-

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You don't have enough cores to even try a bigadv. You need 8 available minimum. They can by virtual, which is why the I7's with HT work. With only 6 physical cores, Stanford won't assign you a bigadv. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but that has been my experience.

As far as I know this is not true because people have folded bigadv with quad core processors before.
 

musky

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As far as I know this is not true because people have folded bigadv with quad core processors before.

I believe they changed the rules a while back. You can fold with less than 8 using the -smp X flag, but the system needs at least 8 to download the unit.
 

capreppy

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As far as I know this is not true because people have folded bigadv with quad core processors before.

True, but the unless the C2Q is OC'd to 4.2 or better (and that is a hard OC for a C2Q), you won't hit deadlines and will be better off doing SMP2 A3.

I do not know what OC is needed for an AMD X4 or X6, but it will likely need to be higher than the 4.2 for a C2Q. Best guess (and this is a real stab in the dark) is that for an X4, you'll need 4.5 or better. You MAY be able to get away with 4.2 on an X6.
 

Vaulter98c

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Since your so die hard AMD, the points will be hard to justify the draw

I would suggest something like a K9A2 (amd!) plat with 3-4 8800GS/8800GT
that would net 9-20 k depending on which ones you go with, 88GT's are 50$ used, GS's are less

If you have to go AMD all the way, best you could do is try for the strongest CPU you can get and OC the piss out of it, ATI GPU's won't be worth the money since it's a dedicatedrig and they won't double as gaming cards

I understand the principle of what your saying, butat the end of the day realize a few things
1. In folding, brand loyalty will only cost you money. Usually big money.
2. If you buy used, your moneys not going to the jolly green giant or big blue so your ok anyways
3. Be flexable, I started lurking when SMP came out, everyone had to have Q66's. The same trend has happened many times, Bigadv, GPU2 and fast ass G92 cards, etc...

Point in case, folding changes fast, and you've got to be ready to move with it. 6 months ago buying a 4 slot mobo and 4 260's would be the best bang for your buck, or like I did and buy 800$ worth of 8 GX2s lol. Now, those GX2s are all but sold, and I never even got a chance to run more than 3 at a time because bigadv came In from no where. Now with the advent of an OCable dual xeon on the loom, things are changing again
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flogge

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If wireless + linux are not happy bedfellows, then windows XP or Vista with SMP2 is what you will want to run. I would go ahead and put 4GB of Ram in it because A3 bigadv might be able to run on 4GB of RAM with only 6 threads.

I average about 4500 ppd on my X3 720 at 3.35 ghz. From what I have seen and read Phenom IIs perform within a few % of a Q6600 clock for clock. I think if you can get a unit, a 6 core thuban in the upper 3s will make the bigadv deadline, but that is just specualtion.

I'll agree that Radeon folding is not worth it right now. I took my 2 4890s off of folding and put them on a Boinc project. They kick ass in that project and use almost 0 CPU cycles, versus the anemic production and severe SMP gimping that occurs with folding.
 

Nathan_P

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if you must go AMD then here are my choices

1) Gigabyte, asus or MSI - 3 or 4 double PCIe slots (MSI gives you 4)
2) fastest x6 you can afford, forget -bigadv and run A3 smp
3) 2gigs is fine, you could go for 4 if you can afford it.
4) Worth it on nvidia only at the moment, NV cards won't cost you more than a few hundred points on the CPU but will gain you 000's on the GPU. Look for 2nd hand 9800gts or 250GTS for cheapness, 260/275 for grunt
5) If you stay only CPU the PSU will be fine - if you are looking for the future and wanting GPU folding then a good 750/850w
6) Fine as is
7) Fine as is
8) in windows they work - some mother boards also have wireless built in, usually top end boards though
9) for GPU folding xp is easier to manage and has less system overhead.

Bear in mind as Vaulter says everything changes so fast, next year it could be ATi gpu's , some parts you will be able to transfer to a new, upgraded rig in the future (such as PSU, DDR3, XP licence, GPU's) but others you can't. Given the upcoming release of bulldozer early next year and you being an ardent AMD fan, set this up for now, get some good experience with a dedicated rig, and revisit your choices this time next year, should you decide to upgrade you will always be able to sell on your unwanted parts and there are plenty of us around to give you tips and purchase unwanted H/W:)
 

Kendrak

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With what you have said and how you vote with your pocketbook, just do a cpu only rig with the best x6 you can get and OC the crap outa it.

If you get over 13k ppd from the x6 on A3, then try -big adv.

Also keep in mind that if you go a bit cheaper on the mobo and a mid/low end x6 with 2gb of ram you might be able to get two boxen for almost the same price as a top end x6.
 

Mr. Pedantic

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This sentiment of mine has translated to the GPU market as well as I do not like nVidia based on what they have been doing in the last few years. This TWIMTBP crap is really hurting PC gaming in my opinion and I don't buy this Physx stuff either as I more or less see it as an excuse to get people to buy another video card doing something that a cpu could easily be doing. Especially since quad cores are now becoming the standard, there is a lot they can do since games almost never fully utilize a processor. Once a proper GPU client is released, what do you think theoretically a new Fermi 480GTX will be capable of doing ppd wise?
At the very least, 17k ppd. Most likely I think it'll be in the neighbourhood of 25k+

True, but the unless the C2Q is OC'd to 4.2 or better (and that is a hard OC for a C2Q), you won't hit deadlines and will be better off doing SMP2 A3.

I do not know what OC is needed for an AMD X4 or X6, but it will likely need to be higher than the 4.2 for a C2Q. Best guess (and this is a real stab in the dark) is that for an X4, you'll need 4.5 or better. You MAY be able to get away with 4.2 on an X6.
On air over 4GHz is nigh on impossible for a Phenom II. AMD is aware of the bug and is presumably working on a fix, but I wouldn't bet on it being in the X6s. You will probably want to wait on reviews and OC'ing attempts from other people.
 

APOLLO

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I strongly agree with the three points Vaulter made in the quote below. If you want to run -bigadv with AMD hardware you will need to buy a server or workstation motherboard with at least two quad-core CPUs installed. There is no other way, and I doubt even Thuban will be worth it if it can somehow muster the performance to complete a -bigadv WU within the bonus deadline.

I well understand your market concerns, but folding is scientific research for the discovery of treatments and cures for debilitating diseases afflicting millions around the world. I believe we can draw a line here for any philosophical arguments (I hope we can). Besides, by buying used components that a lot of folders including myself do, the only person you are really rewarding is the seller.


I understand the principle of what your saying, butat the end of the day realize a few things
1. In folding, brand loyalty will only cost you money. Usually big money.
2. If you buy used, your moneys not going to the jolly green giant or big blue so your ok anyways
3. Be flexable, I started lurking when SMP came out, everyone had to have Q66's. The same trend has happened many times, Bigadv, GPU2 and fast ass G92 cards, etc...
 

amdgamer

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Thanks guys for all of your suggestions on this. I think it is clear that I will have to do this build with scalability in mind as I have a hard budget right now. That way, I could do what i've seen some of you guys do and just piece if together component by component as money frees up. I will probably keep it cpu only initially because of heat heat heat, and I don't want to bust my electric bill either. If I can't find a Gigabyte with integrated graphics, then i'll just buy a cheap $40 video card or something like that when the time comes to build this rig. It won't happen until AMD finally lets us know when Thubans will start becoming available. BTW, Mr Pedantic, you were dead on as my desktop rig is on pace to average exactly 6000-6500ppd as you predicted now that i'm getting bonuses with the SMP client on cpu only.

I was looking over Freakys guide a few minutes ago and I had no idea ATI video cards were this challenged with the GPU client. Considering that the ATI 5xxx series is top dog in gaming performance, it is odd that nVidia cards that cost half as much can get twice as many points with the GPU client. Fermi is not an option for me as it is too loud and too hot the way things are right now, not to mention it wouldn't be in this budget and would be something I would add at a distant future.

Here is the big "if" question as if I went this route, I would be happy with folding but probably couldn't forgive myself for being hypocritical of myself.

Going with a Core i7 with the x58 chipset allows for tripple channel memory configuration. Would 6gigs of memory be possibly enough to do the -bigadv that everyone is talking about? From what you guys are telling me, it looks like anything less than 8gigs won't do. I understand that i7's can generate twice as many points in SMP with stock clocks, and mulah in -bigadv if overclocked. This is just more or a hypothetical thing as I won't decide anyway until I see some of the Thuban benchmarks.
 

Vaulter98c

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I7 above 3.4 ish, 6 gigs of ram, a decent HS, and a mobo. Add a cheap gpu (ati or Nv are on eBay less than 13$)

that's all you need. If you buy the CPU used or at the 199 deal, then you can build a system well under 600$

Just to put it out there... I paid (Roger Young - sig)
125$ 6 GB Ram used
200$ i7 @ 4.3 used (3.8 for folding tho, that's the sweat spot)
125$ ish for my refurb mobo
40$ for a true and hardware
13.51$ for an 8400 GS

had a PSU and Hdd left over from the farm, so add that up, running bigadv at 3.8 in Windows XP64 with the EVGA VM, I get 25k ppd

I'm thinking of going all out tho and loading the VM as the native OS, you can do that now, which should shave up to 2 minutes TPF off (28k ppd or so)
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Vaulter98c

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He'll, you can even throw in the 60$ shipped for a rack mount case that I used and it's stil below 600$
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amdgamer

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Oh damn! I just remembered that I have a copy of Windows XP 64 bit that I bought and used only once before I stopped using it due to Creative Labs junk ass drivers that sucked in that OS. I bet I could dig it up somewhere although I have a feeling it is over in storage(I am a computer packrat).

I guess there is nothing to do but wait for now. I really want to stay with AMD as I would be breaking my own heart if I went Intel or nVidia. As I said before, you can't hardly talk logic to a fanboy and I am an AMD fanboy to the extreme. We'll see as you guys likely have till the end of the month to talk some sense into me since it is likely Thuban won't be out till then.........
 

Vaulter98c

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Well, we won't twist your arm here, folding is based on the spirit of giving whatever you can, be it 200+k like tiger or less than 5k like alot of the team. Whatever you give is your choice, and as a team, were glad to have you aboard

All we can do is help optimize whatever people have to work with, and even if you just go with an x6, we'll stil help you crank out some nice numbers from that, and were always hopeful of a better ATI client, you just never know what's next in the world of folding, and if you wait for the next best thing, it's alwYs gonna be just a few months away and no where near whAt you've already got.

Buy the best you can now and stick to it until you feel ready to upgrade, and general concensus here is going pure SMP with an x6. I would shy away from dedicated video just because, and if you look in the hot deals thread here you'll see an ATI that is low power and is for 10$
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amdgamer

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The interesting thing here is that with me being such a freakin diehard AMD fan, you guys will never have to worry about me coming and mowing you over some day in the future. That of course is unless things change in favor of AMD and ATI rigs :eek:
 

APOLLO

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I guess there is nothing to do but wait for now. I really want to stay with AMD as I would be breaking my own heart if I went Intel or nVidia. As I said before, you can't hardly talk logic to a fanboy and I am an AMD fanboy to the extreme. We'll see as you guys likely have till the end of the month to talk some sense into me since it is likely Thuban won't be out till then.........
I could probably convince you, but won't try. I don't think it would be wise in this forum which centers on DC, not debates about AMD vs Intel. I'd prefer to leave the debating to the guys who hang out in the processor forums (was pro AMD myself for over half a decade).

No problem about waiting for Thuban since it's in near future time frame. If I was in your shoes and had your preferences, I'd probably do the same. However, if Thuban will be nothing more than Phenom II plus two extra cores, I just don't see how it can manage a good PPD in -bigadv, that's if it can make the bonus deadline at all. All one has to do is look at the dual Shanghai -bigadv scores with 8 cores running and you'll get ballpark figures for Thuiban. I doubt Thuban will exceed the Opteron benchmarks unless there's something more in store than I'm aware of.

/shrug
 

amdgamer

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I could probably convince you, but won't try. I don't think it would be wise in this forum which centers on DC, not debates about AMD vs Intel. I'd prefer to leave the debating to the guys who hang out in the processor forums (was pro AMD myself for over half a decade).

No problem about waiting for Thuban since it's in near future time frame. If I was in your shoes and had your preferences, I'd probably do the same. However, if Thuban will be nothing more than Phenom II plus two extra cores, I just don't see how it can manage a good PPD in -bigadv, that's if it can make the bonus deadline at all. All one has to do is look at the dual Shanghai -bigadv scores with 8 cores running and you'll get ballpark figures for Thuiban. I doubt Thuban will exceed the Opteron benchmarks unless there's something more in store than I'm aware of.

/shrug

If you guys want, I am very open to suggestions because I am not going to make the commitment until Thuban comes out no matter which platform I ultimately choose. I figure that even if I somehow end up not going with an AMD, Thuban should at least force some price drops to happen in the cpu market. I mostly hang out in the AMD cpu section of the forum, but have been lurking around in the Intel section just to get a glimpse of the other side. We'll see though as one thing I do like, is economics and maximizing your results given a set of binding constraints. I honestly didn't expect you guys to be so helpful with my questions so far as i'm still trying to learn the ropes of this folding thing. I have spent time in different forums over the years i've been on the internets, and most forums are never this eager to help a noobie out as most actually get annoyed by noobies.
 

APOLLO

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If you guys want, I am very open to suggestions because I am not going to make the commitment until Thuban comes out no matter which platform I ultimately choose. I figure that even if I somehow end up not going with an AMD, Thuban should at least force some price drops to happen in the cpu market. I mostly hang out in the AMD cpu section of the forum, but have been lurking around in the Intel section just to get a glimpse of the other side.
Last time I visited the AMD forum was a few months following Barcelona's official release, IIRC. I was pro AMD then and had high hopes like the others; the rest is history. :(

My main system where I do everything is a Supermicro dual Opteron 280@2.8GHz. It is one of the slowest systems in my farm, which is largely dominated by 8-core dual Xeon Core2 servers. Why do I still use my Opteron system let alone keep it at all you may ask?? The only reason is because I purchased my Xeon systems exclusively for folding, and they are dedicated since their performance vastly exceeds my Opteron. My Opteron machine is still capable for almost everything I do, but I'm no gamer, 3D design artist or big-time photo editor, etc., not anymore anyway. I have been noticing its performance drawbacks for quite some time. This system will last me a few more months until it reaches its 5-year mark, at which point it will likely get replaced with something Intel based.

Regarding PC market ramifications, we as individuals will never be able to make a dent in any multinational corporation's bottom line, whatever we decide to do, however we do it. Not even computer chains like Best Buy can really influence such matters. Only when you get to be as big as Dell or HP do you have 'some' influence, but only a nominal amount. When an entity attains the scale and influence that M$ commands in the PC industry, will it start making big waves. Intel is so big that it doesn't really care about anyone, and even had spats with MS in the past.

I honestly don't believe that an individual or even an entire forum of people if they hypothetically decided to coalesce and forward a commercial directive, could sway the microprocessor market. It behooves us to be rational in matters where potential scientific breakthroughs could benefit everyone. Additionally, if inter-team competition is also important to you, you'd be benefiting the team a lot more with a -bigadv client running than any other config. At this juncture, with the prospect of a dethronement almost imminent, I believe the decision is clear. :cool: :)
 
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amdgamer

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Here is another big "if" question that I wanted to ask those of you who have been doing this folding thing for a while now. My current preferred motherboard of choice is a Gigabyte GA-790XTA-UD4 if I were to go with a Phenom II X6 cpu in the build. This is a dual crossfire motherboard, but would that even matter if I were to run two totally independent video cards at some future point since SLI/Crossfire has to be un-linked anyway for the GPU client? It cannot do SLI(790X chipset is Crossfire only), but would I still be able to run something like a Fermi 480GTX and a 275GTX type of combo without a problem? Just a curious question as I want to make sure whatever configuration I go with, it has room to grow.
 

musky

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Here is another big "if" question that I wanted to ask those of you who have been doing this folding thing for a while now. My current preferred motherboard of choice is a Gigabyte GA-790XTA-UD4 if I were to go with a Phenom II X6 cpu in the build. This is a dual crossfire motherboard, but would that even matter if I were to run two totally independent video cards at some future point since SLI/Crossfire has to be un-linked anyway for the GPU client? It cannot do SLI(790X chipset is Crossfire only), but would I still be able to run something like a Fermi 480GTX and a 275GTX type of combo without a problem? Just a curious question as I want to make sure whatever configuration I go with, it has room to grow.

"Without a problem" may be up for debate, but yes you should be able to do this.
 

Vaulter98c

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Since fermi is such a change is how it works, I assume fir a short while we will have errors if you mix fermis with other generations inthe same box

it used to be like that for GTX2xx cards and G92 cards, but then again they fixed that, ao maybe we won't ever see a problem, who knows right now
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amdgamer

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That is what I thought. What worries me is that once we get a client out that will allow Fermi to fold, that pay to fold team is going to benefit even more and close to gap with us even quicker. I just wish we could start getting some Thuban reviews and benchmarks as that processor intrigues the hell out of me. All of these what if type questions are going through my head. Chances are good that they will be highly overclockable because of the nature of how AMD's Turbo Core technology will work. A Thuban 1090T is stock at 3.2ghz, and you wonder whether it will be able to do a -bigadv if you can overclock it to 3.7ghz or higher on air. Because of turbocore, I suspect that AMD built those things to garentee that each core will be stable to at least 3.7 ghz anyway, and it more or less becomes an issue of heat management.
 

Vaulter98c

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But all teams will have access to Fermi's, so it will balance out some what
 

Mr. Pedantic

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Gulftown will definitely have higher performance than Thuban, at least in terms of folding. I don't think this is very questionable. Equal numbers of cores, plus 30-50% advantage from hyperthreading, unless AMD has really performed a miracle I don't see it happening any time soon. The real question is how it will perform compared to the i7 930, because I think that is where it will be priced. Overclocking is a big thing too, most i7 930s can get to 4.2, 4.4GHz on air very easily, whereas the Phenom IIs still have a bug that won't let them POST above 4GHz. We'll see whether this bug has been fixed, but for now, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Because of turbocore, I suspect that AMD built those things to garentee that each core will be stable to at least 3.7 ghz anyway, and it more or less becomes an issue of heat management.
Heat management is what kills most overclocks.
 

APOLLO

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Chances are good that they will be highly overclockable because of the nature of how AMD's Turbo Core technology will work. A Thuban 1090T is stock at 3.2ghz, and you wonder whether it will be able to do a -bigadv if you can overclock it to 3.7ghz or higher on air. Because of turbocore, I suspect that AMD built those things to garentee that each core will be stable to at least 3.7 ghz anyway, and it more or less becomes an issue of heat management.
If it can achieve 3.7+GHz, it just might be able to make the bonus deadline. Question is, does the SMP client currently permit less than 8 cores for -bigadv WUs? I haven't tried that in months. If it doesn't, then -bigadv is not possible no matter how high you can OC Thuban, and the inquiry will remain in the realm of the speculative.
 

amdgamer

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Gulftown will definitely have higher performance than Thuban, at least in terms of folding. I don't think this is very questionable. Equal numbers of cores, plus 30-50% advantage from hyperthreading, unless AMD has really performed a miracle I don't see it happening any time soon. The real question is how it will perform compared to the i7 930, because I think that is where it will be priced. Overclocking is a big thing too, most i7 930s can get to 4.2, 4.4GHz on air very easily, whereas the Phenom IIs still have a bug that won't let them POST above 4GHz. We'll see whether this bug has been fixed, but for now, I wouldn't hold my breath.


Heat management is what kills most overclocks.

Yeah, I don't think there is really any question of whether it could even come remotely close to Gulftown as that is an entirely new league of performance. With the top of the line 1090T BE selling for an MSRP of $300-310 expected, I suspect that AMD has done their homework and this is a good indication of where it will fall in performance wise. There are a few Phenom II X4 965's that are doing over 4ghz, but those are on water cooling from what i've seen. As far as heat goes, the processor has a TDP of 125watts, so it shouldn't be that bad, especially since I plan on hooking up a Noctua NDH-14 to it to get maximum cooling.while minimizing noise if I decide to go the Thuban route. I am an impulse buyer though and may even jump to a Core i7 if I can find a good enough deal. I hear the 920's are getting discontinued.

I have decided that when I do this build, i'm going to do it right and go with a full tower case like the Coolermaster HAF932 as my old midtower case looks rather dinky compared to my current desktop rig. I made some measurements and that old case will not be able to fit a Noctua NDH-14, since cpu cooling will be so critical.

If it can achieve 3.7+GHz, it just might be able to make the bonus deadline. Question is, does the SMP client currently permit less than 8 cores for -bigadv WUs? I haven't tried that in months. If it doesn't, then -bigadv is not possible no matter how high you can OC Thuban, and the inquiry will remain in the realm of the speculative.

That is exactly why i'm waiting till Thuban comes out to see what it can do. I think I read that we have a couple folders here who plan on going to a Thuban when they come out, so i'm curious to see what kind of overclocks and ppd we can get before I make the final decision between a Thuban and Core i7. A Thuban is going to be a much cheaper build for me, but it may not be worth it although leaked benchmarks do seem promising.

How many more points is a -bigadv worth compared to running just the SMP client? I wonder whether if that is the case, I can make that up by running a couple of high powered GPU's as I get more money to make upgrades in the future.
 

APOLLO

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How many more points is a -bigadv worth compared to running just the SMP client?
You mean with an A3 WU? It depends on the microarchitecture. With AMD 8-core systems that can manage the bonus deadline, it's an order of magnitude more. Same thing for Core2 Intel systems with 8 cores. There's simply no comparison. Bottom line is this: unless you are running Nehalem architecture, wherever you are presented with a choice between -bigadv and A3, -bigadv is VASTLY more productive. Only Nehalem systems show good enough production with A3 that might make someone decide to run it instead of -bigadv, in cases where a machine is not dedicated and RAM is low or the user does not want to run VMware for some reason.

I wonder whether if that is the case, I can make that up by running a couple of high powered GPU's as I get more money to make upgrades in the future.
That's entirely up you, but keep in mind the operational costs of running video cards 24/7 over the long run. Many people have commented on that and the pros and cons vs A3/-bigadv. It depends on your particular situation.

First and foremost, find out if you can even run -biadv with only 6 cores. There is no more important question in your case. If you cannot, that will change everything.
 

Vaulter98c

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My i7 got 16k at 3.9 ghz
25k with bigadv at 3.8ghz

This is in a VM tho, numbers will be a tad higher once I can get a native install on that box, but my shedule is getting too busy
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amdgamer

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Well I posted a thread over in the -bigadv section of the Stanford folding forums, so hopefully i'll get an answer soon whether they still allow those with less than 8 cores to obtain a -bigadv WU. I forgot that you either have to run VMware or Linux in order to get -bigadv WU's, which I know nothing about. Oh well, got time to read up on it and see what is involved.......

Forgot about GPU's and their power draw as that would definately spike my utility bill. *sigh* so many decisions to make.......
 

Vaulter98c

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VMware is too easy now a days, no worries there, it's actually easier than the regular winsmp client, which has gotten much easier itself over the years
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APOLLO

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My i7 got 16k at 3.9 ghz
25k with bigadv at 3.8ghz
Yep, I am right. Dual Harpertown @~2.8GHz with A3 is ~4000-4500 PPD maybe a bit more with a good WU. However, running -bigadv it is up to ~22,000 PPD. See what I mean about Nehalem? Every other architecture at 8 cores or more sucks in A3 yet -bigadv is not too shabby. :cool:
 

Mr. Pedantic

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You mean with an A3 WU? It depends on the microarchitecture. With AMD 8-core systems that can manage the bonus deadline, it's an order of magnitude more. Same thing for Core2 Intel systems with 8 cores. There's simply no comparison. Bottom line is this: unless you are running Nehalem architecture, wherever you are presented with a choice between -bigadv and A3, -bigadv is VASTLY more productive. Only Nehalem systems show good enough production with A3 that might make someone decide to run it instead of -bigadv, in cases where a machine is not dedicated and RAM is low or the user does not want to run VMware for some reason.
Even with Nehalems, it's about 10k more for bigadv.
 
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