Eizo Foris FG2421: 120hz VA Panel

Hmm, I've just noticed quite a bit of bleeding on the edges while gaming - which is weird because if I pull up a black background to test I hardly noticed any. It's quite distracting on the right hand side as you can clearly see a lighter band running down the inside edge. It's about 1inch across. Anyone else had this? The slight cross hatching I can live with but this seems a bit much for a £450 monitor.
 
Fraggins said:
Hmm, I've just noticed quite a bit of bleeding on the edges while gaming - which is weird because if I pull up a black background to test I hardly noticed any. It's quite distracting on the right hand side as you can clearly see a lighter band running down the inside edge. It's about 1inch across. Anyone else had this? The slight cross hatching I can live with but this seems a bit much for a £450 monitor.
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I guess you didn't read this topic, considering that's the major issue people have been having. Nothing to be done about it other than getting a better unit, and so far it seems most units have it to a varying degree.
 
Fraggins - where did you get yours and how long ago? I am trying to identify if the issue is from a specific batch or from a specific manufacturing location.

General Lee, review units did not have any bleeding from what I read.

Does anyone know a place that can open the box, test it, and then sell it?
 
What's Buy.com/'s return process like? Seems to be the only place I can get it for around the price Amazon was selling it for...
 
Suck it up and pay NewEgg price if you want free and reasonable turn-around RMA replacement times. I also think that NewEgg is after the least defective ones because they need to hold up their reputation. I also hope the latest batch of these babes is at least acceotable!
 
MonarchX said:
Fraggins - where did you get yours and how long ago? I am trying to identify if the issue is from a specific batch or from a specific manufacturing location.

General Lee, review units did not have any bleeding from what I read.

Does anyone know a place that can open the box, test it, and then sell it?
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I bought it from Amazon UK last week - manufacture date is 2013.10.02.

Has anyone actually got one of these without the edge bleed? I'd swap it if there's a chance you can get a good one, because potentially its a fantastic monitor, but if most have it I'll probably just get a refund.
 
Fraggins said:
I bought it from Amazon UK last week - manufacture date is 2013.10.02.

Has anyone actually got one of these without the edge bleed? I'd swap it if there's a chance you can get a good one, because potentially its a fantastic monitor, but if most have it I'll probably just get a refund.
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I played games on mine much of the evening yesterday and I was trying to be mindful of any edge bleed. It just isn't there on mine. Sometimes there's something funny going on with the lower right edge of static photos with gray to black details, but it's not light bleed, it's more like gradient distortions. I don't know what to call it, but as you said a black image is a black image on these. A lot of people have run into it, and I think it must vary in intensity, because there was not a single moment gaming all evening that I saw anything from my monitor other than color details I'm not used to getting. But there are some photographs where I can still see whatever it is messing with the bottom right edge.
 
Well I tried to nit pick at it--this is with turbo on.
IMG_00871_zps6f474ae0.jpg

The "light strip" effect is almost gone but it's there--you can see the garbled details in the corner, it's completely a non-issue as far as gaming is concerned, but it really happens in all the corners with turbo on on mine. The shots of the flower were from the first open-box I got from NE but this one I ended up with for keeps pretty much crucifies that picture, too.
20140108_223527_zps579faaf5.jpg

The thing is, the file itself is not good quality to start with, it's stretched horizontally, and the lines are there in the source; I thought those lines were crosshatching when I got the first fg2421 i looked at, but crosshatching is way harder to see and it's diagonal.
 
Fraggins said:
I bought it from Amazon UK last week - manufacture date is 2013.10.02.

Has anyone actually got one of these without the edge bleed? I'd swap it if there's a chance you can get a good one, because potentially its a fantastic monitor, but if most have it I'll probably just get a refund.
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I went through 2 monitors from 2 different retailers (Provantage and ShopBLT). I purchased 1 in Nov. and the other in Dec. Both were manufactured 10/13 and I sent both back because of the right side "bleed". Too distracting to me for the money.
 
Has anyone bought one from NewEgg? It seems that most complains come from EU/UK buyers who's units were made in Germany. Maybe Japanese manufacturing has tighter QC. I know that even though quite a few people have problems, this monitor is still selling really well. Mine should be in Tuesday and I am so hoping that by now the really bad batch has been depleted, Eizo has stepped up their QC, and most units do not suffer from severe issues....
 
Mine was manufactured in Japan, and its pretty bad on the right hand side. The difference in colour tone is pretty noticeable and is quite distracting when playing a fps. I'll probably return it and hope they sort their QC out - fantastic monitor otherwise.
 
MonarchX said:
Has anyone bought one from NewEgg? It seems that most complains come from EU/UK buyers who's units were made in Germany. Maybe Japanese manufacturing has tighter QC. I know that even though quite a few people have problems, this monitor is still selling really well. Mine should be in Tuesday and I am so hoping that by now the really bad batch has been depleted, Eizo has stepped up their QC, and most units do not suffer from severe issues....
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I've had 2 from Newegg. Both from Japan with Nov build dates and they have a lot of problems. I'm hoping their next batch (they went out of stock just recently) will have better QC.
 
MonarchX said:
General Lee, review units did not have any bleeding from what I read.
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Actually I reviewed this monitor for a tech site and got an unopened unit directly from Eizo. It had some issues with bleed from the right side and minor cross-hatching. The problems are certain specific scenarios most sites don't really include in their reviews. Also there's the random restarts several people have been complaining about. Overall this monitor has serious quality control issues for the price. It really smells like these are panels that failed to reach quality levels of the professional model.
 
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Dallows said:
I've had 2 from Newegg. Both from Japan with Nov build dates and they have a lot of problems. I'm hoping their next batch (they went out of stock just recently) will have better QC.
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Yeah, I saw them being out of stock for like a day or even a few hours and then suddenly they got them back in stock, which is when I ordered mine. I am hoping for the best, but expect the worst. I won't mind mild crosshatching and mild backlight bleeding as ANY LED monitor will have those, but if its over the top then I will just gamble for a much cheaper monitor and in addition to that, will get a faster videocard!

I am very curious why this monitor displays perfect blacks without any backlight bleeding, but as soon as you start using higher black and gray levels - bleeding becomes obvious. Maybe it simply uses what is called local dimming?
 
Bluesun311 said:
Knowing you're coming from a VG248QE mostly because of bad contrast depth I think you are going to be happy with this monitor if the one that shows up isn't a stinker. The really shitty thing about the fg2421 is that it seems like a 50/50 or 1 in 3 shot on a decent unit. For my part, I'm interested to see what you find with your colorimeter and if you find the weird little fg2421 quirks tolerable. I have also ordered an x-rite i1 display pro because I am anticipating doing some display reviews in the coming year or 2.

One thing about VA panels is that there is sort of a sweet spot as far as viewing distance. The other thing about this display is that the coating is pretty reflective--sometimes I perceive lines across my screen only to realize it is the reflection of my blinds from directly behind me.
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Best buy i1Pro spectrometer or at the very least rent ColorMunki Photo spectrometer from here - http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/calibration/colormunki . i1Display Pro and all other colorimeters are based off display type tables, which were created using manufacturer's reference displays, which are not likely to perform the same way as consumer displays. Spectrometers read the actual light and are not based off tables. Any pro calibrator would tell you that if they were forced to have only one device - they would buy i1Pro or i1Pro2 and would trust it over i1Display Pro any day. In my experience, i1Display Pro is nowhere near good enough to be used by itself to achieve accurate or semi accurate results. Notice that TFT Cenrtal, FlatPanelsHD, Prad.de - they ALL use i1Pro to profile i1Display Pro.

If this monitor ends up having severe light bleeding and/or less than 4000:1 CR @ 120 or 100 cd/m^2 white point - I will pack it up and get 1 replacement. If the replacement is just as bad - I will get my money back and buy a new videocard to use with my trusty SPVA TV or maybe buy Samsung F5350 Plasma that similar 6000:1 contrast ratio but MUCH better quality.
 
MonarchX said:
Best buy i1Pro spectrometer or at the very least rent ColorMunki Photo spectrometer from here - http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/calibration/colormunki . i1Display Pro and all other colorimeters are based off display type tables, which were created using manufacturer's reference displays, which are not likely to perform the same way as consumer displays. Spectrometers read the actual light and are not based off tables. Any pro calibrator would tell you that if they were forced to have only one device - they would buy i1Pro or i1Pro2 and would trust it over i1Display Pro any day. In my experience, i1Display Pro is nowhere near good enough to be used by itself to achieve accurate or semi accurate results. Notice that TFT Cenrtal, FlatPanelsHD, Prad.de - they ALL use i1Pro to profile i1Display Pro.

If this monitor ends up having severe light bleeding and/or less than 4000:1 CR @ 120 or 100 cd/m^2 white point - I will pack it up and get 1 replacement. If the replacement is just as bad - I will get my money back and buy a new videocard to use with my trusty SPVA TV or maybe buy Samsung F5350 Plasma that similar 6000:1 contrast ratio but MUCH better quality.
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K, you just saved me some money... So the colormunki is the way to go if you don't feel like spending 1200 dollars? Was wanting something that would measure all that stuff you wanted measurements for :(
 
Bluesun311 said:
K, you just saved me some money... So the colormunki is the way to go if you don't feel like spending 1200 dollars? Was wanting something that would measure all that stuff you wanted measurements for :(
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Here is how it goes:
Colorimeters are fast but not very accurate simply because they use tables or display type (CCFL, LED, Plasma, etc) "pre-sets" which do not usually apply or do not apply accurately-enough to most consumers displays. They do read low light levels accurately, but again - even low light readings are based on those tables / "pre-sets". To make those low level light readings accurate - a table or a "pre-set" must be made with a more accurate/reference device like a spectrometer. Spectrometers are slow, but they read in normal light very accurately. In low light they are not very accurate. So, what do you do? You do something called profiling. Profiling means measuring RGB and W patterns with colorimeter and spectrometer, but using spectrometer readings as the reference ones or the accurate ones. That way you kind of create a specific profile or a table / pre-set for your exact colorimeter on your exact screen. You can then use such a profiled colorimeter for any type of readings on that exact display, even for low light readings because colorimeters read low lights very well, but only and only if the pre-set / table used is accurate. I hope I am making sense as far as colorimeter and spectrometer accuracy goes... Profiled colorimeter ends up being very fast and more accurate than the spectrometer used to create the profile because spectrometers by themsmelves do not read low level lights accurately. So each colorimeter needs its own profiling by a spectrometer for each and every single display/screen.

IMHO, the most effective way to achieve all at once is to BUY a colorimeter but to RENT a spectrometer if you only need to measure several displays or need to measure them rarely. If you want to do it all the time, then you need to buy both. i1Pro spectrometers are no longer sold retail, but they are still extremely accurate and can be found in eBay for as little as $300.

i1Display Pro and ColorMunki Display are both colorimeters, but i1Display Pro has ambient diffuser and can be used with almost any software. ColorMunki Display uses the same exact hardware as i1Display Pro, but it is software-locked, so it can be used only with specific software packages. HCFR Calibration supports both of them, is completely free, and is just as good and accurate as the expensive software packages like CalMAN and ChromaPure. HCFR Calibration only measures, but does not calibrate. The best software to calibrate, IMO, is ArgyllCMS when coupled with dispcalGUI - both are also 100% free. Other expensive calibrating packages like CalMAN RGB or basICColor 5 end up providing calibration faster but not as accurately as ArgyllCMS + dispcalGUI.

So, buy ColorMunki Display colorimeter for about $175 retail and profile it for each and every screen using a rented ColorMunki Photo spectrometer for $60 ($40 to rent, $20 to ship). ColorMunki Photo spectrometer is just as accurate as i1Pro. You can also rent i1Pro2 from SpectraCal but it will cost you $200 for 2 week rent, which is too much IMO.

So, buy X-Rite ColorMunki Display for $175 retail, rent ColorMunki Photo for $60 total, download free HCFR Calibration, ArgyllCMS and dispcalGUI. You need nothing more to have a near-perfect monitor calibration.
 
Dallows said:
Hm. I wonder if this is what I experienced in the dark parts of movies. Killed the image quality.

"To begin with, we have clarified dithering, dithering pattern in dark shades. There is a constant movement or noise level in dark shades from the panel to try to create the right shade by modulating."
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I don't know... is it?

See, I hate VG248QE because no matter what I do, I cannot get rid of purple grays instead of being neutral grays. On this test, in the darkest part of the gradient, VG248QE always shows purple instead of gray - http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php even after a thorough calibration. If Eizo Foris FG2421 is anything like that and shows uncorrectable green instead of purple for those dark grays then I will hate it too!!!!!!
 
MonarchX any eta on when you'll get your FG2421 from Newegg? I just sent mine in for RMA so it will probably be about a week before I get the new one. Let me know how yours is.
 
I got mine a few hrs ago. I am testing it ATM. Some things are good but some things do suck. The contrast ratio is much lower after calibration... Color accuracy is not bad - only the actual colorspace/100% saturation. Backlight bleeding is there but not too bad. So far I think I will keep it because it does suck me into games unlike my VG248QE!
 
MonarchX said:
I got mine a few hrs ago. I am testing it ATM. Some things are good but some things do suck. The contrast ratio is much lower after calibration... Color accuracy is not bad - only the actual colorspace/100% saturation. Backlight bleeding is there but not too bad. So far I think I will keep it because it does suck me into games unlike my VG248QE!
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What's the build date?
 
MonarchX said:
I got mine a few hrs ago. I am testing it ATM. Some things are good but some things do suck. The contrast ratio is much lower after calibration... Color accuracy is not bad - only the actual colorspace/100% saturation. Backlight bleeding is there but not too bad. So far I think I will keep it because it does suck me into games unlike my VG248QE!
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This pretty much settles it in my mind. I told the Eizo rep I spoke with that quoted me the price on the Duravision model that I want something better but not $6000 better. That seems exorbitant. I would pay double the price for the monitor if it didn't have the black crush or whatever the cloudiness in the middle is. That is my main complaint. I'm about to give Provantage a shot on another one and see if it compares.
 
alienzero said:
so true :(... as I told before, mine is stuck at 2000:1 after calibration, 0,05 black point, 100 cd/m2 white point.
What's yours?
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Do you notice any difference if you turn on the dynamic contrast ratio? I know this feature is synonymous with smoke and mirrors, but I saw good results with it turned on. I achieved a noticeable and measurable difference.
 
Bluesun311 said:
This pretty much settles it in my mind. I told the Eizo rep I spoke with that quoted me the price on the Duravision model that I want something better but not $6000 better. That seems exorbitant. I would pay double the price for the monitor if it didn't have the black crush or whatever the cloudiness in the middle is. That is my main complaint. I'm about to give Provantage a shot on another one and see if it compares.
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Oh, the black crush in the middle is just VA panel thing. It exists on all VA panels. I just don't consider it a crush because it doesn't completely crush the first visible black level after the deepest level 0.

Light-smeared left and right edges/sides is only partly due to backlight bleed, but VA angles make up the second part of the issue - they make the bleed seem worse than it is. That is why the problem is alleviated somewhat when you move your head to be perpendicular to the light bleed side. I do hate it though - its worse on the right than on the left for me. BUT there is something super-strange about this whole bleed thing... I only see it on some full-screen patterns. You'd think it would be very visible on just about any dark background, but its not... I affects only a small number of shades. It also seems as if last night the issue was worse than it is today... - maybe placebo. It could be worth a try to run the Stick Pixel Sweeper for like 6-8hrs while you're sleeping to make sure everything is burnt-in so-to-speak - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/93831976/Stuck Pixel Sweeper.jar

Mine measures 0.03 cd/m^2 at 100 cd/m^2 and I would sure as hell not settle for 0.05 cd/m^2 at 100 cd/m^2! I am not sure if I would trust Spyder3, but considering VA panel is a gamble - it very much could be that high...

The worst part in games is the input lag... Its nowhere near good enough to be competitive, which I am not. I just feel like VG248QE super-fast response times and super-low input lag actually allowed me to make a few kills in every BF4 session, but I am not sure I can do that now... So I am not 100% sure I am keeping it. My experience over the next couple of days will decide for me!

Oh - no way I would keep this monitor if I didn't have the right equipment to calibrate it.
 
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MonarchX said:
Oh - no way I would keep this monitor if I didn't have the right equipment to calibrate it.
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Not to be argumentative (I'm not, promise :) ), but aren't most panels in need of calibrating brand new? Even monitors that come factory calibrated could use some extra working to get the delta E's super low. My point is that expecting any monitor - even a higher-end gaming monitor - to have good calibration right out of the box - your expectations may be too high.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Not to be argumentative (I'm not, promise :) ), but aren't most panels in need of calibrating brand new? Even monitors that come factory calibrated could use some extra working to get the delta E's super low. My point is that expecting any monitor - even a higher-end gaming monitor - to have good calibration right out of the box - your expectations may be too high.
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Recently, monitors have been doing a great job coming somewhat pre-calibrated. I just think Eizo could have done a better job. Not everyone has a colorimeter to calibrate their display at least somewhat accurately, and out of those there are even fewer who have a spectrometer to get those truly accurate results.
 
MonarchX said:
The worst part in games is the input lag... Its nowhere near good enough to be competitive, which I am not. I just feel like VG248QE super-fast response times and super-low input lag actually allowed me to make a few kills in every BF4 session, but I am not sure I can do that now... So I am not 100% sure I am keeping it. My experience over the next couple of days will decide for me!
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Yah, everyone that is super competitive at time-critical games seems to notice more lag than they would want from these. Not an issue for me because I detest first-person-shooters. Actually didn't realize that was what you were wanting to do with it... For me, driving games do not suffer from the lag input--it's low enough that natural muscle-memory compensation works fine. But when someone has their crosshairs on you... that's different.
 
all in all, this is pretty disappointing. i think this monitor could have been "the one" if it werent for the QC (possible native to VA?) issues.

the wait continues.
 
What I want to know is when the 27" is coming out? I've been using an Asus 27" all these years and would be painful to downsize. Must be others in this position really wanting a killer VA 27"! The flaws mentioned in this thead don't scare me.. it's like what other choice do we have? I will not buy a TN.
 
Vega said:
It never ceases to amaze me the "experts" on displays and other hardware are always no-names that come out of nowhere with 2 week old accounts. You and Stargazer must be friends eh?

Let's pick apart your silly post shall we. The picture was taken at a night ISO setting and is a very accurate representation of the real world image. Have you ever thought that the picture appears darker because the panels display the image better/more appropriate and/or the other sources are over-exposed rubbish? Get a clue man. The point of taking a picture is to show as accurate of a representation of real world viewing as technically possible. Not to match some arbitrary random image taken from some guys Nokia flip phone in France.

As for image orientation, Ya, I am going to disassemble my entire Surround setup and put everything in landscape to upload some arbitrary photo for one new user to look at. Sure thing there guy..

Super lucky? Eh, all of those review sites that had none of these so-called "problems" are also "super lucky"? Or the people here and elsewhere that also have perfectly fine panels? We get it dude, you don't like Eizo, or who knows what else is going on there. I really don't care. Don't buy the monitor, it's that simple. No need to go rambling on about grey lines all over the internet like it's the end of the world. I will call you "grey line man" from now on. That incredibly edited photo you put up has nothing to do with reality and shows how desperate you are.

Not even sure what you are rambling incoherently on about cross-hatching. I clearly stated all three of my displays have light cross-hatching. I guess that is too complicated of an explanation for you to understand.

As for 4K monitors and multi-displays, your reading comprehension is abysmal. My question was in regard to if NVIDIA graphic cards could simultaneously run my 3x1 Portrait setup AND a 4K monitor which is treated as 2-display. That technically would be five outputs, something NVIDIA cannot do and are limited to 3+1 video signals. Obviously such technicalities are way above your head, or you wouldn't have made a fool of yourself not even understanding the question.

I've been doing this for a while "grey line man". Down through the years guys like you emerge from nowhere, think you know everything, make a few silly posts/comments, and then dissapear. Until you actually provide any meaningful info for the community outside of requesting photo's of grey lines on monitors, I suggest you let your account expire as quickly as it was made.




Good info vandit! Although there will be some slight brightness variation on the far right edge on certain colors, some people around here would have you believe it's the end of the world. It's interesting, even on white screens you see zero cross-hatching? I have just a little bit.
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LOL. I literally have not stopped laughing from this for a good ten minutes now, you tell 'em Vega!
 
I wouldn't go as far as to say that my unit is flawless like Vega's but I think those who expect perfection will never find it. I decided to keep this baby. Oh, another evidence that I got a good unit is that mine never reset/turn itself off... yet. I left it on for 5-6hrs before going to bed and it was still on when I woke up.

I was wondering - does the logo in the back use 6500K temperature? That would be perfect bias lighting if it did! It sure seems to, but I don't know... I guess I should measure it with my trusty i1Display Pro?
 
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