Effects Physics & Gameplay Physics Explored @ [H]

[psychoace]

“How impressed is everyone that this NEW hardware is based on maufacturing processes over a year old?”
Smart idea if you ask me. There is no point in using a top notch manufacturing processes when the year old method will do. There are a number of reasons to use a year old process like better yields for starters. Plenty of good new hardware comes out based on year old manufacturing processes.

New manufacturing processes tend to have bugs and poor yields. You only use new processes when you have no choice.

Using new or old manufacturing processes does not determine how good or bad the hardware is only the cost of producing it.



“Oh also on another post they state Hellgate and Alone in the dark will have support for HavokFx so that's two big name games while Ageia only has 1.“
Hellgate isn’t a big name game its an unknown game from an unknown started company who are making there first game so it could well flop. If you ask an average gamer what hellgate is, or mention the developers names working on the hellgate or the company its self most would have no idea who you are talking about.

Alone in the dark isn’t big either is it? I mean the movie flopped the last game came out 5 ish years ago and didn’t sell well did it? Its not a small game by any means but its not a well known game like GTA, UT or NeverWinter Nights. The Havok FX list is nothing so far compared to leading game engines like Unreal Engine 3, Emergent’s Gamebryo and Bioware’s Eclipse all which support the Ageia PPU.

Uh Hellgate is being developed by a lot of the people who developed Diablo 2. It has also been on the front page of PC Gamer and other major pc gaming magazines. So it's hardly unknown.

Alone in the Dark at E3 got a big reception and is considered the revitilization of the franchise. So again these are two big games while I seen 0 press for any of the games listed by Ageia.

 

[Brent_Justice]

If UT2007 and Unreal 3 use the PhysX processor for effect physics acceleration and it provides much better game immersion that will no doubt be the "killer app" for the PhysX processor, those will be huge games, especially UT2007. A lot of people are looking forward to those games. If I see it provide a better experience for those games (which I know i'll be playing a lot) then a PhysX processor is going in my computer.

 

[Netrat33]

Uh Hellgate is being developed by a lot of the people who developed Diablo 2. It has also been on the front page of PC Gamer and other major pc gaming magazines. So it's hardly unknown.

Alone in the Dark at E3 got a big reception and is considered the revitilization of the franchise. So again these are two big games while I seen 0 press for any of the games listed by Ageia.

What he said.

Hellgate is one of the next big names everyone is watching right now. And Alone in the Dark is much older than the movie. It started the whole survival horror genre....although I never thought it was scary but they say that due to supernatural presence the game has.

sorry for getting a little sidetracked

 

[Netrat33]

If UT2007 and Unreal 3 use the PhysX processor for effect physics acceleration and it provides much better game immersion that will no doubt be the "killer app" for the PhysX processor, those will be huge games, especially UT2007. A lot of people are looking forward to those games. If I see it provide a better experience for those games (which I know i'll be playing a lot) then a PhysX processor is going in my computer.

I believe though it's just the engine will have it and not the game (UT2007 at least)

 

[SuperGee]

Why do we compare CFdemo against Crysis?
Crysis is a very jungle rich maps game, CF is not.

What can PhysX add to a jungle map. What could Crysis do if they had the power off physX to put more PhysX interaction in the jungle to a higher degree then they do now with CPU and a bit GPU. I do notice that destruction is limited. But looks cool. Could be cooler more emersive. But is the best we have seen to date.

Off course I like jungle. Crysis team has a lot of experience with it, FarCry. But what for jungle and jungle PhysX interaction can be done with the reality engine CF uses?

It would be better to compare jungle vs jungle. But till now we don't have that luxery.
Only Limbostation vs Crysis jungle are like comparing apples to kiwi

Crysis gamedesign is heavenly aimed at jungle map design so I guessing a engine developed with optimum rendering jungles is a gamedesign requierment for the inhouse engine to build. Such game lent more on emersive jungle.

Do'nt know how much Reality engine has features wich supports a higher degree of jungle rendering with physics.

So I like jungle and also a bit more open vegetation. Well renderd and interacting realistic.

My gues is that maybe a CF jungle woudn't look so good like Crysis. Engine isn't optimised for that. But could be more interactive due to the aviable hardware accelerated Physics wich could put to use for jungle PhysX.
Also the PhysX support isn't specific aimed at jungle physx.
Wonder what is possible
Like tree have 4 breakpoint in Crysis CF would have 32.
And leaves are on a higher detail destrucable in CF.

Idea for a jungle Map Mod. for CF.

BTW just learn how to boost the shellNades of the assault_rifle M203 ish undermount nade launcher. I start now with 12 shells and 250 mag's. Just learning modding CF.

 

[merlin704]

I have no clue what you just said....

Why do we compare CFdemo against Crysis?
Crysis is a very junge rich maps, CF is not.

What can PhysX add to a jungle map. what could Crysis do if the had the power off physX to put Mo interaction in the jungle to a higher degree then they do now with CPU and a bit GPU. I do notice that destruction is limited. But looks cool. Could be cooler mo emersive. But is the best we have seen to date.

Off course I like jungle. Crysis team has a lot of experience with it. FarCry. But What for jungle and jungle PhysX interaction can be done with the reality engine CF uses?

It would be better to compare jungle vs jungle. But till now we don't have that luxery.
Limbostation and jungle are like Apples and kiwi

Crysis gamedesign is heavenly aimed at jungle map so I geussing a engine developed with optimum rendering jungles is a requierment for the inhouse engine to build.
Such game lent more on emersive jungle.
Do'nt know how much Reality engine has features wich supports a higher degree of jungle rendering.

i like jungle and also a bit more open vegetation. renderd and interacting realistic.

My gues is that maybe a CF jungle woudn't look so good like Crysis. engine isn't optimised for that. But could be more interactive due to the aviable hardware accelerated Physics wich could put to use for jungle PhysX.
Also the PhysX support isn't specific aimed at jungle physx.
Wonder what is possible
Like tree have 4 breakpoint in Crysis CF would have 32.
Leaves are on a higher detail destrucable in CF.

Idea for a jungle Map Mod. for CF.

BTW just learn how to boost the shellNades of the assautrifle undermount nade launcher. I start now with 12 shells and 250 mag's

 

[psychoace]

Why do we compare CFdemo against Crysis?
Crysis is a very junge rich maps, CF is not.

What can PhysX add to a jungle map. what could Crysis do if the had the power off physX to put Mo interaction in the jungle to a higher degree then they do now with CPU and a bit GPU. I do notice that destruction is limited. But looks cool. Could be cooler mo emersive. But is the best we have seen to date.

Off course I like jungle. Crysis team has a lot of experience with it. FarCry. But What for jungle and jungle PhysX interaction can be done with the reality engine CF uses?

It would be better to compare jungle vs jungle. But till now we don't have that luxery.
Limbostation and jungle are like Apples and kiwi

Crysis gamedesign is heavenly aimed at jungle map so I geussing a engine developed with optimum rendering jungles is a requierment for the inhouse engine to build.
Such game lent more on emersive jungle.
Do'nt know how much Reality engine has features wich supports a higher degree of jungle rendering.

i like jungle and also a bit more open vegetation. renderd and interacting realistic.

My gues is that maybe a CF jungle woudn't look so good like Crysis. engine isn't optimised for that. But could be more interactive due to the aviable hardware accelerated Physics wich could put to use for jungle PhysX.
Also the PhysX support isn't specific aimed at jungle physx.
Wonder what is possible
Like tree have 4 breakpoint in Crysis CF would have 32.
Leaves are on a higher detail destrucable in CF.

Idea for a jungle Map Mod. for CF.

BTW just learn how to boost the shellNades of the assautrifle undermount nade launcher. I start now with 12 shells and 250 mag's

Supposidly only 1/3 of Crysis will be in the jungle. The rest will be in space and on a navy ship and maybe a couple other locals. Also they are going to have a frozen jungle which is supposed to look pimp. Supposidly you will be in 0 gravity when your in space which will actually allow the shells to float up when they are are discharged from the gun. It will be pretty cool to have all your characters floating around shooting and stuff with no north or south. We all have seen the Navy ship scene and how cool that turned out. I mean the big robot can actually scream and cause all the smoke to be pushed by the wind it produces. Sounds pretty sweet. All I see Cellfactor doing is throwing around tons of objects how is this creative and as imersive as what I just listed above?

 

[Netrat33]

I have no clue what you just said....

*laughing* whew! I thought it was just me

 

[cyks]

PPU does the same though.

No, wrong.

Also who said you had to buy 3 cards in order to use ATi's or Nvidia physics solutions?

WTF are you talking about? ATI's solution is called tripple play, an ujpgrade to crossfire. Nvidia doesn't have a three card solution for physics, pretty subjective of you to mention them.

Since you don't have sli or crossfire i don't see a reason why you would think it was neccesary to buy 3 cards.

WTF are you talking about? I don't have SLI? That is pretty subjective of you.

I like your over exaggerating though i am pretty sure most people can see through it anyhow.

WTF are you talking about? Speak for yourself...

Also the total i came up with using your numbers was less then $2000 not $3000.

If I sell my unusable parts before upgrading to ATI's tripple play-- I will be down by ~$2000 because all of that would still be used with Ageia's solution. *Then* I would need a new motherboard, proc, GPUs, PSU, RAM. $3000 is an understatement. The GPUs alone would cost upwards of $1200 for any decent performance worth even upgrading to this silly solution. Lets see... $2000 opportunity cost from selling, +1200 GPUs, +200 Mobo, +300 proc, +200 PSU, +200 RAM = $4100.

Think that is wrong? Ever build/buy a computer before? Don't bother responding to this unless you have links to prices that lower this amount,

 

[psychoace]

Wow still bad math

A. Your acting like the Three play is the only way to get physics running for ATi it isn't you can have a two card solution 1 being a 1900xtx and othe physics card being a x1600

B. How do you add $2000 for the cost of you selling stuff? usually you gain money when you sell stuff not lose it. If you are considering it all as a loss because you "have to" upgrade (which means you can't make your own decision and shouldn't be allowed to have $4000 to waste on a pc) that's pretty stupid because I am sure most people don't think when they are upgrading "omg i am losing all that money i spent on a geforce 3 and my 1gig of Sdram". If you feel you must upgrade for every next thing then you arn't even worried about what your spending let alone what you spent. Also if you had this stuff for awhile you should of got your money worth out of it. If you didn't that's your fault. Most people are happy to sell there stuff because it's extra money towards there next project they don't consider it a loss. You are taking the most extreme situation and acting like it's common for most users.





Most of us will just add a second card and be happy with physics sorry you need the most extreme of everything that's your fault.

Also you are showing fuzzy math. What your displaying is not a parallel port of system your talking about a huge system upgrade. You state you can only sell your "two" gpus at $300 but the only thing that you said you must buy which is a 1900xtx is a 7900gtx which go for a more $400 used a peice. If you have two gpu's and they are only worth $300 together it sounds more like you have either two fancy oc'd 7600gt's or old 7800gt's. If that's the case then the comparitable option you would have is a 1800xt which is about $250 so we cut your $1200 to $500 bam you just saved $700 without losing performance compared to your rig you have now. Add another $150 for a gpu physics card and your back to only saving $550 Also if your looking at 2 gig's of memeory you can find high quality ddr2 memory for $150 so -$50. Also most high quality Power Supplies that can handle SLI are about $150 or less so -$50. Last looking at Mobo's at newegg right now there is no ati solution released. Nvidia has a few released but they are no where near $200. If we can take this as only a guess the highest end will be $200 but if your a smart shopper and not a sucker to buy the most high end one with all the feature you don't need your only going to need to spend $125-$150 you just saved another $50.

Oh Oh last but not least i have a question. Do you think your hardware will go up in value over the years? You are bound to get more money now then you would in the future. If your a good seller you should be able to get only a minimal loss and thus really gain in end because instead of having the same system for 5 years that dosn't have physics or an upgraded mobo or newer ram/power supply/GPU/CPU ect you gain probably an extra year out of your pc.

 

[Brent_Justice]

there's also the one GPU option for both ATI and NV, you only need 1 GPU for games that use GPUs to accelerate physics

i think it'd be awesome to see a physics slider in games, so you can determine the level of hardware acceleration / detail, you want

 

[Flexmaster]

Both solutions have their benefits cost wise.

First of all the GPU solution can be had for free, many people have crossfire/SLI mobo's and maybe an old card laying around, or many want to upgrade their current GPU in their system so the other one could be put in the other slot basically for free.

But the people that do not have a Crossfire/SLI mobo would have to buy one, which isnt too much ~$100, and a GPU, which depends which one you would want but the x1600 series is supposedly pretty good at the physics work so that would be around ~$200.

The only downside of all this are the owners that want to have their 2 GPU's still in their system and still have physics. Their only solution will be buying a 3 PCI Express mobo which will most likely cost close to $200, and another card for physics, a x1600 which would basically result in $300 which is about how much AGEIA's solution costs.

 

[Brent_Justice]

X1600 XT's are around $130-$140 these days online, X1600 Pro's are around $110, i've seen some less than $100

 

[SuperGee]

I bet that some large budged hardware enthausiast are going for triple play. Slide to the Max and CF on it to keep the FPS up on a large screen.
My budged is what restricted so 1+1 max for me, no triple.

Supposidly only 1/3 of Crysis will be in the jungle.

Crysis put much effort in realistic jungle. So I expect a lot more time in the jungle enviorment. But in the end it will be a snowy icy jungle. But still jungle with a Ice age feel

The rest will be in space and on a navy ship and maybe a couple other locals.

So it is a space game to? It sound more like " universal combat" but then done right. Not that i mind at all. I realy like Space games. Where are they.

Also they are going to have a frozen jungle which is supposed to look pimp. Supposidly you will be in 0 gravity when your in space which will actually allow the shells to float up when they are are discharged from the gun. It will be pretty cool to have all your characters floating around shooting and stuff with no north or south.

Nice Feature, but does not sound like very computational for Physics.
Frozen jungle sound more like a advance pixel shader excersize then Physics for the dev's.

We all have seen the Navy ship scene and how cool that turned out.

No I have not. But I belief you.

I mean the big robot can actually scream and cause all the smoke to be pushed by the wind it produces. Sounds pretty sweet.

indeed, would be also a important moment in the story line when the player meet this beast for the first time. So they put more attention to very important event in the game story, like a very large emersive Foo poping up. Realy impressive. Yes Crysis sound very interresting.

All I see Cellfactor doing is throwing around tons of objects how is this creative and as imersive as what I just listed above?

It's just one Map. A restricted game demo to demo some physX features. Compared to in game video's and sreenshot of result of a full game in progress.
Well we don't know the Cell Factor retail game design. And i don't expect Crysis be a universal combat done right clone. But CellFactor Combat training is just one Map. More aimed at UT gameplay style with more physics then usual . Crysis is a story driven game. So it's a different ball of game. It could be a linair game. CF is about Mplay fraging UT like. But I wonder what they had planned for the single player game before they jumped on the Ageia wagon.

Crysis features are great. But there are more way's to make a great game. Crysis is going for a jungelish game. With some moments out of it and frozen in the end game bit space navy etc.
CF can certenly do a lot more then Limbostation. Does not mean they have to copy Crysis but rather could do other cool but more physX intensive stuff.

So they don't compete directly with Crysis. As Crysis use functional Physics, wich support and make a lot off sense to add to there game story line and gameplay and emersion.
CF could use Physics to support there Gameplay plan's Wich could be a total different ball of Physics game and could be also a lot heavier. It could be heavy without jungle in it. Like extensive Destructable enviorment. yes jungle is cool. But thats cool to if done right.

We saw one map with some Gameplay physics. But they are planning a Full game with a much large mix of Physics. So it wouldn't be just the game of a lot of boxes. But with a lot of Physics. Something totaly different then crysis.

How the gameplay unfolds we can only guess. I wait when they are out. both games I would like a lot if they are done right.

Also for CF and reality engine its core C++ engine is totlay wrapped in a script engine makes it highly moddable. It is possible to make a compleet different game with it. Maybe a space game or hybrid. .

 

[Terra]

Let's clear up some PR-FUD about CellFactor:
CellFactor - Alpha FAQ 1.0.1

General Questions
Q: Will Cell Factor be on the Xbox 360?
A: Right now the only thing that we're working on is the PC version.

The GamePlay
Q: What type of game is Cell Factor?
A: "CellFactor is a multiplayer first person shooter designed from the ground-up to use insane amounts of realistic physics in networked gameplay." (Gamespot)

Q: Will Cell Factor have a Single Player mode as well?
A: Originally, as you may have noticed, CellFactor was conceived as a singleplayer FPS action-adventure game, for the next-gen consoles as well as PC. That's been put on hold while we do this physics-oriented, multiplayer version of the game.

Technical Questions
Q: Can you run Cell Factor without a PhysX card?
A: Yes, but the game is practically unplayable without a PhysX card in multiplayer, and clothes and fluids do not work.

(Still trying to work out how to word some of these technical questions but I'll get something up).


Servers
Q: Do servers require a PhysX card?
A: Dedicated Servers do not require Ageia PhysX hardware.

Q: How many people can the servers currently support?
A: Online play is currently possible via direct IP joining, and we've tested it on low-latency, high-bandwidth connections with 4 players.

Terra - I survived...the car almost didn't!

 

[Netrat33]

there's also the one GPU option for both ATI and NV, you only need 1 GPU for games that use GPUs to accelerate physics

i think it'd be awesome to see a physics slider in games, so you can determine the level of hardware acceleration / detail, you want

Pretty sure it will be like that regardless much like say, FEAR where you can set particles to, none,min, medium, max and sometimes in games ExtReMe!

Well...guess not a slider but a setting much like that.

 

[Terra]

X1600 XT's are around $130-$140 these days online, X1600 Pro's are around $110, i've seen some less than $100

Did you ask ATI/NVIDIA/Havok about if their physcis will be fully implemented on DX9 hardware?
Or if that only will happen on DX10 hardware?
The article dosn't tocuh that topic AFAIKS?

Terra - That question is one I like to se an answer to...

 

[Netrat33]

Let's clear up some PR-FUD about CellFactor:
CellFactor - Alpha FAQ 1.0.1


Terra - I survived...the car almost didn't!

Annnd...who is that who wrote that FAQ? And more importantly do they actually want this game to sell? Because they would need a slider at least to make it playable for those who don't have a physx card.

 

[cyks]

[flame deleted]A. Your acting like the Three play is the only way to get physics running for ATi it isn't you can have a two card solution 1 being a 1900xtx and othe physics card being a x1600

Ok, as if that had any relevency, you are granted the facted that a 1900+1600 works, the 1900xtx is only twice as much as Ageia's PPU. GJ, you are going pro, although it is too bad I still have a SLI motherboard.

Relevency included, my response would sound like: I would rather put another 1900xtx in the second slot and buy Ageia, especially considering my response above.

usually you gain money when you sell stuff not lose it.

R.O.F.L.M.F.A.O.B.B.Q.

When you sell something used, it goes at a discount...

Needless to say, I didn't finish reading your post.

 

[psychoace]

Q: How many people can the servers currently support?
A: Online play is currently possible via direct IP joining, and we've tested it on low-latency ( most optimal conditions ), high-bandwidth ( t3's ) connections with 4 players ( Clans are going to have lots of fun with this game. )

 

[psychoace]

Ok, as if that had any relevency, you are granted the facted that a 1900+1600 works, the 1900xtx is only twice as much as Ageia's PPU. GJ, you are going pro, although it is too bad I still have a SLI motherboard.

Relevency included, my response would sound like: I would rather put another 1900xtx in the second slot and buy Ageia, especially considering my response above.

R.O.F.L.M.F.A.O.B.B.Q.

When you sell something used, it goes at a discount...

Needless to say, I didn't finish reading your post.

but if your adding a second 1900xtx that's $500 and then the physix card is $300 that's $800. While I can just add another video card and be done with just $200. Also we have already state you do not have a 1900xtx or anything comparable to that so stop frontin g. If you did you wouldn't be selling 2 of them for $300 so stop trying to "represent" a crowd that you have no part of.

Actually I am going to stop this right here you can make another post if you want to but I am done you are completly irrational and come off with math that most 3rd graders would notice is wrong. I don't think anyone will believe anything you say as truth and thus my objective is complete have a good day.

 

[Terra]

Annnd...who is that who wrote that FAQ? And more importantly do they actually want this game to sell? Because they would need a slider at least to make it playable for those who don't have a physx card.

Who to better ask for info that the developers?
But are you saying that all FAQ's on gamesites are bull?
Or was this you best "effort" to FUD things up?
But I guess as long as it dosn't come from ATI, it's nothing to you

Terra...

 

[Flexmaster]

Did you ask ATI/NVIDIA/Havok about if their physcis will be fully implemented on DX9 hardware?
Or if that only will happen on DX10 hardware?
The article dosn't tocuh that topic AFAIKS?

Terra - That question is one I like to se an answer to...

It was allready announced that an ATI x1xxx or Gefore 6 or higher can be used.

 

[cyks]

but if your adding a second 1900xtx that's $500 and then the physix card is $300 that's $800.

Please tell me who, what, why, when, where, or how I am meant to use this figure with, for, withstanding, ever, at all?

I do not mean to offend at all, but this is how vague and meaningless I believe your statement to be. Simply, all I want you to do is answer that question as best you can.

 

[Brent_Justice]

Did you ask ATI/NVIDIA/Havok about if their physcis will be fully implemented on DX9 hardware?
Or if that only will happen on DX10 hardware?
The article dosn't tocuh that topic AFAIKS?

Terra - That question is one I like to se an answer to...

It is discussed in the article

Godfrey Cheng) - Absolutely. As I described above, the actual calculation of both types of physics is identical and from a technical point of view, both can be processed on ATI’s GPUs today.

So yes, DX9 GPUs can do effects and gameplay physics.

 

[Terra]

It is discussed in the article



So yes, DX9 GPUs can do effects and gameplay physics.

He states that both types of physcis are identical.
That is a truth modfied...

Terra - Like I have said...that article is full of PR-bull...

 

[Brent_Justice]

He states that both types of physcis are identical.
That is a truth modfied...

Terra - Like I have said...that article is full of PR-bull...

Did you not read the article completely before? 187 posts in and you are still debating this?

Perhaps NV's answer will give you more detail:

(Chris Seitz) - GPUs accelerate the simulation and calculation of rigid body collisions. Because the crux of the simulation can be cast into a data-parallel problem which maps extremely well into shader code, GPUs are perfectly capable of quickly and efficiently performing this processing. There is no distinction made at the GPU level whether the objects being collided are effects objects or gameplay objects. Simulation of gameplay objects would increase the amount of data read back to system memory, over and above what’s currently being transferred back. Yet, these amounts of data are very small when compared to total PCI-E readback bandwidth, so we wouldn’t anticipate a performance hit. So it’s entirely doable, but from a productization standpoint, Havok decided to start with effects because their customers, game developers, were telling them that type of approach was their priority.

It is not PR, it is fact. There really is no debate, the truth is DX9 GPUs can do effects and gameplay physics today. We just need the games

 

[Pottsey]

“So yes, DX9 GPUs can do effects and gameplay physics.“
But they also say it cannot right now due to no API support and none is currently planed. They might look into it at a later date. So effect physics only.

I also got the impression it was impossible with DX9 and they where waiting for DX10 where the GPU can send data back to the CPU. So XP users still don’t get gameplay physics.




“Uh Hellgate is being developed by a lot of the people who developed Diablo 2. It has also been on the front page of PC Gamer and other major pc gaming magazines. So it's hardly unknown.”
It’s certainly a game to watch but it’s not a big name. PC gamer over here is small and doesnt sum up most of the market and plenty of games have been hyped as the next big thing and they turn out to be nothing worth having. When you come down to it Hellgate is made by a starter company without a proven track record with no well known name linked to it. Sure 1 or 2 developers worked on Diablo 2 but that doesn’t mean much. Do I mention the developer that worked Doom and went on to make steam of poor and late games? Just because a developer worked on 1 great game doesn’t mean there next game is going be great.

You also have to take into account the full team. If 1 or 2 members of the team are great and the rest unknowns or poor there is a chance the game will not be good.

Anyway a well known name is a game that’s sold well and is well known. Or a series of games. GTA and UT are big name games even if the next game is poor it will sell well by name alone. Hellgate is an unknown factor it could turn out to be big or it could be small and if the game is poor the name of the game will not make it sell well. Hellgate could well turn out to be just like Titan quest which was also labelled as the next big game like Diablo. Though I do hope I am wrong and Hellgate is great.

 

[Flexmaster]

“So yes, DX9 GPUs can do effects and gameplay physics.“
But they also say it cannot right now due to no API support and none is currently planed. They might look into it at a later date. So effect physics only.

I also got the impression it was impossible with DX9 and they where waiting for DX10 where the GPU can send data back to the CPU. So XP users still don’t get gameplay physics.




“Uh Hellgate is being developed by a lot of the people who developed Diablo 2. It has also been on the front page of PC Gamer and other major pc gaming magazines. So it's hardly unknown.”
It’s certainly a game to watch but it’s not a big name. PC gamer over here is small and doesnt sum up most of the market and plenty of games have been hyped as the next big thing and they turn out to be nothing worth having. When you come down to it Hellgate is made by a starter company without a proven track record with no well known name linked to it. Sure 1 or 2 developers worked on Diablo 2 but that doesn’t mean much. Do I mention the developer that worked Doom and went on to make steam of poor and late games? Just because a developer worked on 1 great game doesn’t mean there next game is going be great.

You also have to take into account the full team. If 1 or 2 members of the team are great and the rest unknowns or poor there is a chance the game will not be good.

Anyway a well known name is a game that’s sold well and is well known. Or a series of games. GTA and UT are big name games even if the next game is poor it will sell well by name alone. Hellgate is an unknown factor it could turn out to be big or it could be small and if the game is poor the name of the game will not make it sell well. Hellgate could well turn out to be just like Titan quest which was also labelled as the next big game like Diablo. Though I do hope I am wrong and Hellgate is great.

You apperently did not read the article either, it clearly states that its possible to do gameplay physics with current hardware.

Also from what I read every site loved Hellgate London at E3 where it was playable, plus it looks like a great game and it has more anticipation than Titans Quest ever had.

 

[Netrat33]

Who to better ask for info that the developers?
But are you saying that all FAQ's on gamesites are bull?
Or was this you best "effort" to FUD things up?
But I guess as long as it dosn't come from ATI, it's nothing to you

Terra...

Can't you ever answer a question without going off on some further extreme and putting more words into others mouths?

I said who wrote tha FAQ? It's an FAQ from some forum member much like me writing one. Is it truly from a developer's interview? It's not on THAT actual website from the actual people. I'm not questiong other game site FAQs like you imply I even give the benefit of the doubt that maybe it's true, if so, not in the "FAQ": How is this game going to run on peoples computers that wont buy a PPU that is such a SMALL market? It's suicide and wasted time for a developer to think "Just Physx"

You keep arguing like I'm a fan of ATI's physics when all I'm doing is waiting and pointing out that agiea is not the end all and still has no justification for a $300 price point(And you KEEP saying ATI without realizing that Nvidia is doing the same.) You keep saying how GPU solution is stupid but you have haven't even seen it yet and we've all seen what Physx does and many AREN'T impress. And all you keep doing is trolling for a reaction ignoring ANY other points ANYONE brings up including Kyle and Brent, and even R1ck1can (sorry for the spelling) all of which aren't idiots dealing with a crapload of hardware. Ignoring statements said by all 4 in the interview about how physics are going to be working in games and how developers will be utilizing it.

But I guess it takes a mirror statement for you to hopefully see anything: I guess if it's not from Ageia it means nothing to you...

 

[Flexmaster]

Can't you ever answer a question without going off on some further extreme and putting more words into others mouths?

I said who wrote tha FAQ? It's an FAQ from some forum member much like me writing one. Is it truly from a developer's interview? It's not on THAT actual website from the actual people. I'm not questiong other game site FAQs like you imply I even give the benefit of the doubt that maybe it's true, if so not in the "FAQ" how is this game going to run on peoples computers that wont buy a PPU that is such a SMALL market? It's suicide and wasted time for a developer to think "Just Physx"

You keep arguing like I'm a fan of ATI's physics when all I'm doing is waiting and pointing out that agiea is not the end all and still has no justification for a $300 price point(And you KEEP saying ATI without realizing that Nvidia is doing the same.) You keep saying how GPU solution is stupid but you have haven't even seen it yet and we've all seen what Physx does and many AREN'T impress. And all you keep doing is trolling for a reaction ignoring ANY other points ANYONE brings up including Kyle and Brent, and even R1ck1can (sorry for the spelling) all of which aren't idiots dealing with a crapload of hardware. Ignoring statements said by all 4 in the interview about how physics are going to be working in games and how developers will be utilizing it.

But I guess it takes a mirror statement for you to hopefully see anything: I guess if it's not from Ageia it means nothing to you...

I agree with you fully, smart post. But I dont think it helps, he just doesent get it.

 

[merlin704]

Terra, why is it that you seem to think ONLY Ageia is allowed to do any kind of physics? It was a give in that ATi and nVidia would enter the scene with solutions for effects/gameplay physics. If anyone slings FUD around it's you Terra. Maybe you should email Kyle and ask that he change the PPU forum name to "Terra's Forum" because no one it seems is allowed to have an opinion that doesn't consist of Ageia only. I don't know everything about physics but if I see a thread on ATi or nVidia's solution, that is what I want to read, not "Terra the Ageia Almighty's" view of things with your consistent bashing of other solutions.

 

[psychoace]

Terra, why is it that you seem to think ONLY Ageia is allowed to do any kind of physics? It was a give in that ATi and nVidia would enter the scene with solutions for effects/gameplay physics. If anyone slings FUD around it's you Terra. Maybe you should email Kyle and ask that he change the PPU forum name to "Terra's Forum" because no one it seems is allowed to have an opinion that doesn't consist of Ageia only. I don't know everything about physics but if I see a thread on ATi or nVidia's solution , that is what I want to read, not "Terra the Ageia Almighty's" view of things with your consistent bashing of other solutions.

You gave him ammunition there. He wont listen to you but he will trash you for what you say. If you arn't an unpaid scientest who has stole 500 forms of identification and 100 forms of proof that ati or nvidia can do both sets of physics then he wont listen to you.

 

[SuperGee]

It's good there is a Terra & Co. Altho hardcore pro Ageia PhysX there are a lot of people making a crusade to put Ageia down. Now people can read two strong baised opinions wich collides heavy.

So readers can take a critical view on all the !!!!!!s arguments. Some make sense but a lot are irrelevant.
Point is if you hear to much or only anti ageia fud people are getting believing it. So its much in balance.

There is a sayin.: "If you want to hit a dog you will find a stick."

For now like is often said, just waitin for the games. Where ageia runs upfront and GPU runs behind. Ageia must set a market up before ATI/nV Physics Games comes out. And Ageia must keep with a solid Dev support. the question is will Ageia make it.
The question is will ageia make good use of its leading position. Depends on killer game soon.
Games are important for sucsess and it takes time.

 

[psychoace]

It's good there is a Terra & Co. Altho hardcore pro Ageia PhysX there are a lot of people making a crusade to put Ageia down. Now people can read two strong baised opinions wich collides heavy.

So readers can take a critical view on all the !!!!!!s arguments. Some make sense but a lot are irrelevant.
Point is if you hear to much or only anti ageia fud people are getting believing it. So its much in balance.

There is a sayin.: "If you want to hit a dog you will find a stick."

For now like is often said, just waitin for the games. Where ageia runs upfront and GPU runs behind. Ageia must set a market up before ATI/nV Physics Games comes out. And Ageia must keep with a solid Dev support. the question is will Ageia make it.
The question is will ageia make good use of its leading position. Depends on killer game soon.
Games are important for success and it takes time.

I think vocal opinions from both sides is always necessary but there is a point when it becomes to strong and can be viewed as pushing instead of informing. The fact is Terra dosn't inform people about anything he attacks people into thinking his way and if anyone comes up with a fact that disproves his point then he totally ignores it and trashes you for thinking such a way and tells you that your brainwashed. I find that to be a counter productive leader in trying to stand behind a product. We know Ageia works and it might be the faster solution but he's also got to get out of this denial he is in and face the fact that ATI/Nvidida can do both kinds of physics. If he only became a more rational person like most of the people in this forum there would be less attacks on him and also probably more people on his side.

 

[Pottsey]

I did read it and I also read the bit that said Havok FX can technically run gameplay physics but they don’t recommend it due to some “discovery” to be done. When you say something can technically be done. That usually means it can be done but not very well.

They said it’s to much of a risk for developers and nothing they want to see in the short run. I have not doubts we will get gameplay physics on the GPU but I don’t believe it will be out this year.

 

[cyks]

It was a give in that ATi and nVidia would enter the scene with solutions for effects/gameplay physics.

So you do see the irony. Let’s pretend that we have absolute proof that a GPU can perform as well as a PPU. Nvidia/ATi sell us a product that supposedly can perform service A & service B. Years pass and we only ever use service A, unknowing service B. Suddenly a new organization comes and finally gives us service B, and Nvidia/ATi are left in the very dust they created. But the reality is that we do not know the performance of GPU physics, ATI & Nvidia had plenty of time to implement physics on their hardware but didn't until someone else had enough balls to do so.



So while ATI & Nvidia scramble to produce output that they have already promised to be delivering, I will be putting my hard-earned dollars into an honest company. One that can walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

 

[jimmyb]

It's good there is a Terra & Co. [...] Now people can read two strong baised opinions wich collides heavy.

Yes I love reading heavily biased opinions. Brilliant.


The best thing about physics done on the GPU is that almost everyone will be able to take advantage of it (-everyone has a video card-). If you don't think that's a huge developer incentive, then you're deluding yourself.

Also, I noticed on an earlier page that someone mentioned that the CF server would not require a physics card. This brings up an interesting point. Client side rule enforcement has always been terrible in terms of cheating and universe parity between clients. On the one hand it alleviates the bandwidth problems that have been discussed regarding heavy networked physics, but on the other hand it opens the door for some severe rule-breaking and game discontinuity.

If someone has info on this please tell.

 

[Netrat33]

So you do see the irony. Let’s pretend that we have absolute proof that a GPU can perform as well as a PPU. Nvidia/ATi sell us a product that supposedly can perform service A & service B. Years pass and we only ever use service A, unknowing service B. Suddenly a new organization comes and finally gives us service B, and Nvidia/ATi are left in the very dust they created. But the reality is that we do not know the performance of GPU physics, ATI & Nvidia had plenty of time to implement physics on their hardware but didn't until someone else had enough balls to do so.



So while ATI & Nvidia scramble to produce output that they have already promised to be delivering, I will be putting my hard-earned dollars into an honest company. One that can walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

Because developers never asked for it before.

It's like how everyone said ATI cards can suddenly do geometry instancing even though the whole time it could do it. No one used it/needed it until Farcry.

 

[psychoace]

So you do see the irony. Let’s pretend that we have absolute proof that a GPU can perform as well as a PPU. Nvidia/ATi sell us a product that supposedly can perform service A & service B. Years pass and we only ever use service A, unknowing service B. Suddenly a new organization comes and finally gives us service B, and Nvidia/ATi are left in the very dust they created. But the reality is that we do not know the performance of GPU physics, ATI & Nvidia had plenty of time to implement physics on their hardware but didn't until someone else had enough balls to do so.



So while ATI & Nvidia scramble to produce output that they have already promised to be delivering, I will be putting my hard-earned dollars into an honest company. One that can walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

Uh so Ageia isn't trying to provide service B right now? Also Nvidia/ATi arn't trying to provide Service B within the year? Did you read the the article that this whole thread is about? Nvidia/ATi are going to produce it. If Ageia takes off then Nvidia/ATI will have to include it. So your statement is totally off and is not how the market is heading. There is two format to start off with and both are being utitlized by both services out there the PPU and the GPU. All that needs to be worried about now is who will have the killer titles. Most of us would say Ageia dosn't have one yet. Also most will say neither does Havok although I wouldn't agree.